mmike1969 Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Brad is often a misguided control freak but with his concern for his four sons, I think more than ever before, his heart is in the right place and he just showed that with JJ. Yes but only after everyone else got on Brad's ass about it.
Timothy M. Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Yes but only after everyone else got on Brad's ass about it. At least he did listen and acted accordingly. Personally, I think JP was the one who convinced Brad that he needed to heed the others. But that may be because I have a high respect for JP and his intelligence. Edited October 11, 2014 by Timothy M. 2
Kitt Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Yes but only after everyone else got on Brad's ass about it. Some people take hints well. Others need a Louisville slugger to get through to. 2
Headstall Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Yes but only after everyone else got on Brad's ass about it. Very true but the whole family was just as concerned. My point was really that in the past Brad wouldn't have listened (most likely) which often made him a bad parent. This time he did listen. He appears to be learning which is why I believe his heart is finally in the right place. Cheers... 2
davewri Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Okay, we all know this is fiction and we all know the teacher/student, coach/student, adult/child sexual taboos. Did JJ seduce his coach or the coach seduce JJ? Seems like the little diva does not do anything he would not want to do.
Headstall Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Okay, we all know this is fiction and we all know the teacher/student, coach/student, adult/child sexual taboos. Did JJ seduce his coach or the coach seduce JJ? Seems like the little diva does not do anything he would not want to do. JJ's coach was a pedophile. JJ was a victim. It is never right to blame a child for what an adult does...the responsibility always lies with the adult. The "little diva" has been in therapy ever since and if he is manipulative at times, I am sure some of the blame lies with how his coach manipulated him. I feel there is a social responsibility for all adults to try to protect all children, fiction or not. Just saying... 4
Daddydavek Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 The coach was a pedophile and he molested more than JJ as I recall. JJ is interesting in that he found something to excel at and is still pursuing the dream. He didn't start skating as a six year old, it was Matt who introduced him to skates and he found something he could be good at. While everyone else in his close family was into surfing, he found his niche and it says a lot about him that he put up with all the hard work it takes to make it in that arena. My big concern is that he falls too heavily for Alex. Maturity wise, he is still a fairly young teenager and first crushes can be really tense when they end..... 2
davewri Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Causing harm to a child is a very serious crime and the coach paid with his life. As I said before, we all know this is fiction and many taboo subjects are part of this saga. Some taboo topics push more buttons than others. JJ is still in a situation of older/younger and yet he seems to be the one pushing this relationship. If it gets to a place where it is harmful for JJ, the family will make Alex disappear as they have done to others.
methodwriter85 Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) I think what I'm saying is that it'd be impossible to replicate a Will-kind of rebellion against Brad with JJ, not just because JJ's a different person, but because JJ didn't grow up as being incredibly close to Brad and seeing himself as Brad's best friend. Will did, and the fact that Will went from being upset that Brad didn't make him his best man at his commitment ceremony to fling for emancipation in the span of about eight CAP months was what drove so much of the emotions there. And as they pointed out to Brad, JJ's rage burns cold. It's not like he'd blow up, work through it, and then come back to Brad when he's over being pissed. He very much could sever all ties with Brad and not look back, kind of similar to what Zach's doing here with his parents because they're getting in the way of what he wants. Will at his core lives and breathes family, and though he may have huffed and puffed and acted out, I don't think he could have ever totally severed things with his parents. JJ could, and Zach has. That's what I like about the story here- you've got two athletes, in very different sports, who are nonetheless capable of being utterly ruthless when it comes to getting what they want. It's very different from when we followed Matt and Wade's experiences in sports. JJ is interesting in that he found something to excel at and is still pursuing the dream. He didn't start skating as a six year old, it was Matt who introduced him to skates and he found something he could be good at. While everyone else in his close family was into surfing, he found his niche and it says a lot about him that he put up with all the hard work it takes to make it in that arena. I've been working out JJ's career timeline with someone who knows a lot about the sport. We based JJ's advancement roughly on Johnny Weir, who started skating at around 12. By the time Johnny Weir was 16, he won the Junior World Championship. So JJ advancing from skating first at age 12 and then becoming in contention for senior competition titles by 16 is pretty rare, but not impossible. 2001-2002 was JJ's first senior season, and this one is his second senior-level season. I'm hoping like hell we see them at the U.S. "Disaster" championship of January 2003, where Johnny Weir was leading but then completely choked, and the men's free program then saw a lot of that. JJ is still in a situation of older/younger and yet he seems to be the one pushing this relationship. If it gets to a place where it is harmful for JJ, the family will make Alex disappear as they have done to others. Alex is about 22 at most, while JJ is nearly 17. There's maybe a 6-year gap at the most. JJ's coach was 45 when he was molesting JJ, who was 14/15 and an immature 15 at that. It's not really comparable. It'd be a lot harder for them to make Alex disappear. Alex is British nobility, remember? If he disappeared, people would miss him. Alex seems to be an only child, so it doesn't seem like his family would have a spare, either. And if you think about it, the Cramptons/Schluters don't really seem to mess with the people who are on their level socially, or even higher up. I think that's the reason why Elizabeth Danfield is still breathing- she's on a higher level socially than the Cramptons/Schluters are. What they could do is financially ruin the family. Edited October 11, 2014 by methodwriter85 1
davewri Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 If enough money was on the table, Alex would be on the next plane to London. Be sure that Brad will have spies watching JJ. The whole lunch meeting with JJ and Brad was just too smooth. Once again Mark is setting us up......... 1
Bucket1 Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 If enough money was on the table, Alex would be on the next plane to London. Be sure that Brad will have spies watching JJ. The whole lunch meeting with JJ and Brad was just too smooth. Once again Mark is setting us up......... I don't think it would stretch the Crampton/Schluter budget at all - JP dropped some loose change to get access to family documents, a plane ticket and some dollars would solve the issue. Alex knows what his future holds although I think he would like to finish his degree before running away with the cash...
B1ue Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) I find it awesome that JJ is reaping both the benefits and the drawbacks of being the "youngest" sibling, even though he's really the middle kid. The drawbacks being overprotective older sibs, and parents that cannot believe that their precious widdle baby would want to hold his ankles too, and the benefit being that his parents are kind of worn out by the time they get around to you. Stuff that would have landed Darius in a seminary, and gotten Will a stern talking to, JJ gets a pat on the head and a simple "don't be stupid." I may be reading too much into it, being the youngest of four myself. And, naturally, my view is scewed by how remarkable the difference it was between my older sibs and me. I'm pretty sure my parents wanted to see me as the good kid so bad they turned a blind eye to some things I did, but in some cases they really did underreact. The first time I got in a fight, all my parents said was "did you win?" Both of my parents asked that separately, by the way. As a further example on how low the bar was set for me, it was pointed out that all I really had to do to be the "good kid" was manage to make it through high school without being arrested. In any case, I can see Brad working through a similar mindset with JJ. He really is a good kid compared to his brothers, and Brad really does trust him, which is why he tries so hard to use his career against him. I like that Will and JP got him to back off, and did it in a manner that Brad was able to see his missteps. AND it was consistent with both of their characters. Nice couple of chapters, really. Edit: Regarding Elizabeth Danfield, she's still breathing because she didn't f**k with the family, only Wade and Matt. That's within the rules. If Brad hadn't started messing around with Wade himself, he and Elizabeth would probably still be distantly cordial. Now if Wade ever wants her pushing daises, she's got about 20 minutes to live, but until that point I think the family is going to let him control her fate unless she makes moves against them directly. Edited October 12, 2014 by B1ue 3
B1ue Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 I don't think it would stretch the Crampton/Schluter budget at all - JP dropped some loose change to get access to family documents, a plane ticket and some dollars would solve the issue. Alex knows what his future holds although I think he would like to finish his degree before running away with the cash... Not sure that treating Alex like a whore would work very well. It'd be nice and neat if it could, but this is one situation where overt threats, ones that clearly regarded Alex as a threat and an equal to Brad (or, at least, pretends to), might work better than bribery.
Bucket1 Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 Not sure that treating Alex like a whore would work very well. It'd be nice and neat if it could, but this is one situation where overt threats, ones that clearly regarded Alex as a threat and an equal to Brad (or, at least, pretends to), might work better than bribery. I'm not sure that the Crampton/Schluters nor Alex would like to see it described as bribery or being a whore. Alex could very easily justify it as yet another sacrifice he has to make to secure his family's heritage. With the exception of possibly JJ, everyone knows that Alex will have to give up any chance at longterm love to keep the family line going. Heading back home with a degree and a suitcase full of dollars would be seen as a success. In a book or two, Mark will have Alex needing to choose between some cash from Brad/JP/Stef or appearing on one of those tacky restoration/"turn the family home into a tourist attraction" programs. I would advise he take the cash and run.
Bucket1 Posted October 12, 2014 Posted October 12, 2014 I find it awesome that JJ is reaping both the benefits and the drawbacks of being the "youngest" sibling, even though he's really the middle kid. The drawbacks being overprotective older sibs, and parents that cannot believe that their precious widdle baby would want to hold his ankles too, and the benefit being that his parents are kind of worn out by the time they get around to you. Stuff that would have landed Darius in a seminary, and gotten Will a stern talking to, JJ gets a pat on the head and a simple "don't be stupid." I do like the fact that both the readers and the family really do see JJ as the youngest regardless of age. And yes, as an oldest child I couldn't help but notice that he gets away with so much more than the others - decidedly unfair Just wait until Will, Darius or JJ have kids, then the grandparent gene will surface... Brad will be hopeless... I am not jealous of the way my nephew gets treated by my folks, I am not jealous of the way my nephew gets treated by my folks, I am not... bugger it... yes I am Edit: Regarding Elizabeth Danfield, she's still breathing because she didn't f**k with the family, only Wade and Matt. That's within the rules. If Brad hadn't started messing around with Wade himself, he and Elizabeth would probably still be distantly cordial. Now if Wade ever wants her pushing daises, she's got about 20 minutes to live, but until that point I think the family is going to let him control her fate unless she makes moves against them directly. I agree with you except for one minor point. Now the relationship between Matt and Brad has matured and Matt is now inside the loop (one of the ring holders) - messing with Matt might be more dangerous than messing with Wade. Matt isn't Robbie's anymore. 1
methodwriter85 Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 Just wait until Will, Darius or JJ have kids, then the grandparent gene will surface... Brad will be hopeless... I think it's safe to say that JJ won't be having kids for a long, long time, if he does at all. He seems like he can barely stand to be in the same room with kids. Hell, I can see JJ deciding to get a vasectomy in his 20's just to make sure he doesn't spawn them. LOL. Darius and Will, definitely will...Darius especially. Remember how he was kind of disappointed that Ella's pregnancy scare wasn't real? (Although he's gotta be glad now, considering what Ella turned out to be like.) I wouldn't be surprised if Darius was a husband and father before the age of 25. Although...I mean, Brad seems to consider Matt a son, Matt considers Riley his son, so Brad's already kind of a grandfather. I don't know if Brad actually has referred to Riley as a grandson, though. He'll definitely do that with the upcoming kid, though. I find it awesome that JJ is reaping both the benefits and the drawbacks of being the "youngest" sibling, even though he's really the middle kid. The drawbacks being overprotective older sibs, and parents that cannot believe that their precious widdle baby would want to hold his ankles too, and the benefit being that his parents are kind of worn out by the time they get around to you. Stuff that would have landed Darius in a seminary, and gotten Will a stern talking to, JJ gets a pat on the head and a simple "don't be stupid." It's rooted in the fact that JJ was born 6 weeks premature (he was actually due in February 1986), and Will was always bigger and taller than him. Jeanine was especially protective of JJ because of how small he was, and Will wasn't given the "baby" treatment because Will wasn't that small. JJ really is a relatively a "good kid" compared to his brothers, despite his bitchy attitude. He may lash out and say shit, but ultimately he falls in line with what people expect of him. 1
Timothy M. Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 So far JJ seems to be in control of the relationship with Alex and he's good at reading him and keeping his cool so as not to scare the skittish Brit away. It's funny how Alex probably thinks he's in charge of how things develop and in reality he's being skillfully handled by JJ. 1
Popular Post Bucket1 Posted October 15, 2014 Popular Post Posted October 15, 2014 (edited) A great manipulator is our JJ - poor Alex On the other hand, a serious lack of self reflection Did everything have to be a big production? The diva asks why everything needs to be a big production??? Pot - Kettle - Black .... Edited October 15, 2014 by Bucket1 6
Popular Post Henson Posted October 15, 2014 Popular Post Posted October 15, 2014 A great manipulator is our JJ - poor Alex On the other hand, a serious lack of self reflection Did everything have to be a big production? The diva asks why everything needs to be a big production??? Pot - Kettle - Black .... I found that to be the richest characterization in the entire story so far. No one ever really sees themselves. Besides, they were trying to get him to focus on them rather than the other way around. Of course that would be yawn-inducing. This is a guy who both doesn't much care for people poking into his privacy, and likes to control the agenda. 7
Daddydavek Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 But that serious lack of self-awareness on the part of JJ may also be the reason everyone is so worried and at the same time relieved that things are in a better place. For now... 4
Bucket1 Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 One thing which didn't really come up in the Brad/Cam convo about money - Brad is actually giving Cam his most precious commodity, his time. The good news is that Cam is making full use of that investment But that serious lack of self-awareness on the part of JJ may also be the reason everyone is so worried and at the same time relieved that things are in a better place. For now... "For now... " Spoken like a true author. 3
Bucket1 Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) I forgot to add this to my review... Matt is a sexy beast, great body, smart (usually but not always in relationships) and a good guy. “Sharpie thinks that when he saw me write that check, that really fired him up.” Hammer fell in lust when Matt wrote the cheque - tacky, unattractive, sleazy. Hammer could be a sex god but he is one of the most unattractive characters Mark has written. Maybe it was the Brad/Cam chapter that made this stand out more but Hammer is just plain ugly. Edited October 19, 2014 by Bucket1
Kitt Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 Maybe it was the Brad/Cam chapter that made this stand out more but Hammer is just plain ugly. True, but without ugly creatures in the world you would not appreciate the good ones! 2
Bucket1 Posted October 19, 2014 Posted October 19, 2014 True, but without ugly creatures in the world you would not appreciate the good ones! I appreciated Cam's efforts before (paying for the diner meal for example) but it does nicely highlight the differences
PrivateTim Posted October 21, 2014 Posted October 21, 2014 (edited) Hammer fell in lust when Matt wrote the cheque - tacky, unattractive, sleazy. Hammer could be a sex god but he is one of the most unattractive characters Mark has written. Maybe it was the Brad/Cam chapter that made this stand out more but Hammer is just plain ugly. I am not sure how things are in the gay scene in Western Australia, but in CA and especially the LA/West Hollywood scene, where a good part of the story has taken place, there are a lot of gay boys (by way of defining "boy", in WeHo that is anyone under 30 or 35 if you in great shape and can lie especially well) looking to get taken care of. There are certain clubs in WeHo where everyone knows a 25 year old actor/waiter can go when he needs a new outfit or looks to be short in the rent. Even beyond the boys who are outright golddiggers there are the May December couples who seem happy with the arrangement and don't have a problem with the unequal power and exeperience thing, each is getting their needs fulfilled. On a side not to the arthuor Mr. Arbour, I am not sure how long this book is planned for, but we are pretty deep into it and there hasn't been a single incidence of streaking yet! Edited October 21, 2014 by PrivateTim 1
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