GLH Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Heh... My 39th birthday has its learner's permit... 2
Headstall Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Heh... My 39th birthday has its learner's permit... LOL...mine is old enough to drink anywhere 3
methodwriter85 Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Denial is a state of mind. Like celebrating my 25th birthday for the 20th time. Why deny your age? I wear each and every one of my 29 years with pride. Although sometimes I'm tempted to shave a few years off my age because I look young for my age and I can easily get away with saying I'm 24 or 25. At Firefly this year, I lied and told some 22-year olds that I was 26. They said, "Oh, wow, I can't believe it- you look like our age!" I mean, come on, Firefly Music Festival is basically the land of the 22-year olds. It does kind feel hard to stand out as the lone people in your late 20's/early 30's range. The new plot-twist brings a theme partly out into the open, it's not a new theme in the saga, it's been visible but gone largely without comment before. It's the enormous powers that women have been exercising over these men's lives. Often the men have almost seemed to be clustering together in partial refuge. Alex emerged only once (that we could see) from the men-only enclave, he was entrapped, and he is now getting slammed. For the rest, the powers have been largely placated with great efforts. (For example, in an earlier phase of the saga, Wade seemed to need all of that family money to deal with Tiffany about access to Riley, suggesting an essential weakness in his position without it, while Tiffany herself had no such need.) That's an interesting idea. I think the idea is that women hold the power over the men because they can have children, and in order for these gay/bi men to continue their "blood lines", they have to negotiate with the women, who are bargaining from a position of maternal power. As for Brad, I hope he kind of realizes that it's not his job to look out for his 20-year old grown son now. Darius can and should be allowed to make his own decisions. Speaking of, I LOVED Darius calling Will out on his hypocritical bullshit. I think Darius, Tiffany, and maybe JP are the only people that can get away with that when it comes to Will. Edited January 17, 2015 by methodwriter85 1
methodwriter85 Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Mark's feedback: So you really think there's no way, no pressure, they could put on Alex to force him to marry Mary Ellen against his will? I happen to agree with you. Honestly, I think Alex on some level wants this. Marrying Mary Ellen solves a lot of his family's financial problems, he's convinced that it's his baby, and he doesn't want his child to be a bastard. That they're not in love doesn't change the fact that it's mutually beneficial to both. And it provides a perfect cover for his relationship with JJ. JJ being "out" isn't possible as long as he wants to skate. He's in the same situation Zach is in, which is amusing, considering how different their two sports are. When I think about it, I can see JJ being really, really hesitant to get married, either in legality or in spirit. He had a pretty big front-row seat to the meltdown that was Brad and Robbie, then again for Tiffany and Jeanine, and he wasn't a huge fan of Jeanine and Hank. That's not to say that he won't have committed relationships, but I can see him balking at making a formal life commitment. It's actually a nice contrast from Will circa Poor Man's Son, when he was thinking that he was going to marry every boy/man he fucked around with. I think Will at that time was actively seeking life partners, like in that high school kind of "we're going to be together forever and ever" kind of deal. JJ doesn't really seem to have the same kind of deal. Yes, he's infatuated, but we haven't exactly seen JJ mention any wedding fantasies when it comes to Alex. Edited January 17, 2015 by methodwriter85 1
Timothy M. Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (Chapter 38 Review) 100 years ago he would have slipped ergot into her food. I hope he can get hold of something more effective. No pregnancy is certain until after the first trimester. Reply from Mark Arbour (author) I really don't think Alex would do that. He's pretty convinced that's his child. I think it's reasonable for him to feel some level of attachment, even at this point. Alex to JJ in ch 38: “It would be preferable for her to terminate this pregnancy, but I doubt that is part of her agenda. I suspect she will attempt to force me to marry her.” Yeah right, sounds like he's really attached to this one month old fetus. 2
methodwriter85 Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Who's 38?? No one I know..... Seriously though, Private Tim, I think men are at their sexiest between their mid-30's to about their mid-40's. It's a great age- you have some "seasoning" on your face now because of the emerging wrinkles, but still traces of boyish youthfulness. I hate it when guys get "man-tox"- the lines really add some interesting dimension. 20-year old guys, while hot, just look so blank-faced to me. Not really related to CAP, but I had these thoughts about guys in your age range while looking up pictures of Bradley Cooper. Gawd, he looks hot in the bearded bear look. Although to bring it back to CAP...I picture JJ sooooo being the kind of guy who starts to get Botox injections when he's still in his 20's. Will won't care. I actually could see Darius being more vain about it than Will, although not as vain as JJ, who will absolutely freak out once he hits his late 20's. Matt and Wade I can't really judge, although both would be in their mid-30's in "real time". Alex to JJ in ch 38: “It would be preferable for her to terminate this pregnancy, but I doubt that is part of her agenda. I suspect she will attempt to force me to marry her.” I think Alex is pretty much making the best out of a situation he didn't really want, but now that it's here, he's willing to make sure his kid is well-taken care of. I also think telling JJ he really wanted Mary Ellen to get an abortion was his way of softening the blow to JJ, who sure as hell does not want to see Alex get excited about having a kid. JJ strikes me as a "never having kids" type, and he is not going to be excited about sharing Alex with a wife and a kid. I suspect whatever kid they have will be mostly raised by nannies and British boarding schools, which will probably be for the best. Well, until it's the late 2010's and the kid of whatever gender comes to America and entangles with Tiffany's as-of-yet unborn child, Maddy, and Riley. They'd all be cousins but whatever. Mark's really busy building the foundation work for Generation 4 of CAP. LOL. I gotta admit, I really thought Darius would have been the next one to contribute- he strikes me as someone who'd have kids young. Although I think having Alex do it works- he and MaryEllen makes it so that save for Riley, whatever kid they have isn't going to be a biological first-cousin to everyone in that generation. (Although technically, Maddy belongs to Will's generation- still, she's basically being grouped with Gen 4 because of her age.) That's soap generation planning 101. You can have second cousins or "by-marriage" cousins, but you can't have too many biological-by-blood first cousins. That's why I was glad that Mark didn't give Tiffany twins like people wanted, and didn't make Brad or Robbie Maddy's father. You can't have too many characters on the canvas that are the same age group and directly blood-related to each other. We get a little more leeway here on the incest deal because the bulk of what we're seeing are gay relationships, but still. Edited January 17, 2015 by methodwriter85 1
Kitt Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 That's why I was glad that Mark didn't give Tiffany twins like people wanted, Yet - she hasn't completed the current pregnancy yet and you never know what may end up on paper when Mark is writing! 2
John Prz Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Yet - she hasn't completed the current pregnancy yet and you never know what may end up on paper when Mark is writing! Yes you're right! Even Mary Ellen's pregnancy could surprise us! 2
Bucket1 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Yet - she hasn't completed the current pregnancy yet and you never know what may end up on paper when Mark is writing! I know of two sets of hidden twins. One discovered late in pregnancy the other at birth. Babies can hide 2
methodwriter85 Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I meant when Tiffany was pregnant with Riley. That would have been overkill to have given her twins on top of Maddy coming at the same time. Like I said, you gotta spread out the ages, and you got to keep them from being too blood-related. I really think that's why Mark had an Alex/Mary-Ellen combo. Edited January 18, 2015 by methodwriter85
davewri Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 It is utterly futile to anticipate how Mark Arbour's devious mind will resolve this mess with Alex and JJ. Hang on for a few more chapters and all will be sorted. Maybe. 2
Kitt Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 It is utterly futile to anticipate how Mark Arbour's devious mind will resolve this mess with Alex and JJ. Hang on for a few more chapters and all will be sorted. Maybe. While that may be quite true - it is FUN to try and anticipate which way his mind will turn! 2
davewri Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I did not see this three way marriage as a solution. JJ thinks about women more than men when he masturbates (w t f) Once again Mark has twisted the plot. 1
methodwriter85 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) I think we are forgetting something really important here; JJ has never been portrayed as gay. JJ has always indicated that he was equally interested in men and women, he just got to the men first. I don't think anyone that has been following the story long term really expected JJ and Alex to be forever partners. JJ can't come out and be with Alex as long as he is in the skating world and Alex has to marry and produce an heir. Several years ago, when Mark and I were debating about JJ's sexuality and how it might turn out, we got input from a female figure skater that it would actually be easier for JJ to mess around with other men even if he's also into women, because his female figure skaters peers are under serious scrutiny at all times, and he's going to be around guys much more anyway. It doesn't seem like dance where the girls and a few guys are with each other at all times. It makes total sense he got to men first given where he's grown up and the sport that he's in. I like how nuanced JJ's sexuality is. It's not really black and white. I wonder if he'll be like a bi friend I have, who tells me that his sexuality tends to ebb and flow between "gay" and "straight". If MaryEllen wasn't a raging bitch and JJ wasn't an immature nearly-17-year old, I could see this working. But I can't see this turning into another Wade/Matt/Tiffany deal. I'm reminded of another 3-way marriage that produced several children (Ace, Billy, and Claire). Isidore, JP/Jeff/Sam/Roger/Stef. Did I leave anyone out? Besides Andre and Frank? It worked out pretty good over the decades. But ME is no Isidore, and while Isidore was a little rough around the edges, she wasn't a scheming, calculating, evil spawn of Satan, like Mary Ellen is. JJ is also no Matt, and he really, really can't stand children. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he decided to get a vasectomy. It might be better for him to do that anyway given that he's a biological Crampton and those people spawn illegitimate children like crazy. I am kinda disappointed that it looks like we're not going to get a JJ/MaryEllen bitchfest like I was expecting here. I also expected JJ's first female love interest to be a classy Natalie Portman or Alexis Bledel type. Edited January 21, 2015 by methodwriter85 2
Kitt Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 . I am kinda disappointed that it looks like we're not going to get a JJ/MaryEllen bitchfest like I was expecting here. Just because it has not happened YET does not mean it will not happen! Mark seems to enjoy letting us get comfy with a situation before turning it completely on its ear! Think how much more tension the bitchfest will have if it doesn't occur until AFTER JJ has slept with ME in some way. And from what I have read already, it does not seem like sex will be limited to when the three are together, just that only the three of them are in the "circle". I can see things blowing up after the first time ME beds JJ without Alex. 1
methodwriter85 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I hope you're right. Something tells me that Mary Ellen isn't used to bedding guys that can also be a total diva-bitch.
ColumbusGuy Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 You know, having read through the entire saga until I was caught up, this is the first time I am thoroughly disgusted with a chapter. This entire situation with the pregnancy is just abhorrent from the way it was plotted by Elizabeth, to Alex' proposing a tripartite relationship. So much for any real feelings he has for JJ--doing this before clearing it with him--AFTER JJ told him he wanted them to be monogamous. Further, Mark has seriously betrayed his own vision of his characters if he thinks JJ would go along with this for even a second, or that Will would tell JJ to go along with it. Thank you Mark for trashing what was a very interesting addition to the CAP saga--I guess the resolution for Zach's problem with his parents has to be balanced by a totally evil mind-fuck elsewhere just to drive the plot. JJ's feelings, mental stability with trust issues--fuck 'em, it's not vital to the story anymore because you want to have another threesome in the story. Sorry, it's nowhere near the same thing--the others had genuine love and affection between the players, not an evil bitch spinning her web to get what she wants. Not only have you betrayed the personalities of JJ and Will, but also of Nana, Wade and anyone else you trot out to support this travesty. I am so glad that I was out of 'likes' when this monument to hypocrisy was posted...I won't bother wasting any more of them on this story...for a while, I'll try reading around the bits with Lord Scumbag and Mary Whore...if that isn't possible, perhaps I'll give up this book altogether and wait for the next one--maybe not since you seem to alter the rules your characters operate by at will. I guess it's easier to alter your characters than to have a consistent view of them...not the sign of the great writer I had hitherto thought you to be. As for Bridgemont--if that story spawned a complete asshole like Alex, then I won't waste my time on it beyond the couple chapters I've already read. Anyone else want to join me in heading for the Exit in search of barf bags? 1
methodwriter85 Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 I actually think JJ would go along with it, as long as Alex constantly assured him that he was Alex's favorite. I really didn't expect this kind of reaction to the storyline when I first read it. Hmm. Mainly because I thought it actually makes a lot of sense- Alex being willing to marry for money, setting up a "real" partner as opposed to his legal wife, and JJ being okay with it, because he's that infatuated with Alex and he can convince himself that Mary Ellen means nothing to Alex and he's still his favorite. Remember, he's 17. (Well, nearly.) JJ is a lonely kid in a lonely sport without that many opportunities to have relationships. He's willing to do what it takes to keep Alex. Will it work in the long run? Probably not, but I've never gotten the feeling we're supposed to see Alex as JJ's forever love. 1
Kitt Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Something that needs to be kept in mind with the entire JJ/Alex/ME thing is that Alex always knew he would be expected to make an advantageous marriage, and love very likely would have nothing to do with it. The aristocracy in Europe had for centuries married for matters of state and matters of love were handled behind the curtains. This is no different. That Alex and JJ have found each other and might be able to make a bad situation work for all involved strikes me as the heart of the Cap saga. No one has been hesitant to resort to behind the scenes manipulation to achieve an end in over 40 years the stories have spanned so far, and it would have surprised me if all dealings on this one were completely "kosher" as my neighbor would say. In any case, the JJ/Alex/ME situation is far from settled. Not only does it yet require a huge amount of political/social negotiation, emotions are still very fresh with all parties involved, and as reality sets in various participants may change how they react to everything. And of course we still have Elizabitch out in the cold and seething at being excluded from the game. Take a deep breath CG, calm yourself, then read the chapter again. Nothing is set in stone and the possibilities are endless! Edited January 21, 2015 by Kitt 3
Timothy M. Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Well, I'm glad I've already lost interest and pretty much decided to ignore that part of the story, before this latest chapter. I'm skimming the Wade and JJ parts to catch any interactions with Will and shrugging my shoulders at the whole Alex drama. I'm reading Streak for the Zach and Will story line and the Brad romancing is sort of fun too. The rest leaves me cold, and I'm happy to pretend this nonsense never happened. PS I still like Wade, but if he's prepared to condone this shit his sister has done, I'm writing him off. Edited January 21, 2015 by Timothy M. 2
ColumbusGuy Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Sorry method and Kitt, but that is, in plain English, BS...don't play the need to marry card in relation to the scheming bitch Mary Ellen is--he has the title to tell her to fuck off and find a real woman worthy of the title as his wife...and the money might have come from somewhere else in time--so no--Alex is and always will be an unprincipled scumbag, and trying to fit JJ into a loveless and mercenary niche in Alex' twisted fantasy is just wrong. Rationalize however you wish--Mark has betrayed both his characters, his readers, and his honor as a writer of merit with this ploy. As Tim said, I'm going to try reading around Alex, ME et al., but if it gets to be less rewarding to keep up with Will and Zach, then I'm on hiatus until the next book. Brad and Marc were nice, and I feel sorry for Matt who has proven to be a loyal and loving mate to a man like Wade who is now alas, remarkably like his later Father--an opportunist and moral bankrupt. Guess his money finally persuaded him that he can buy a conscience. It's time for the Schluter clan to untangle themselves from the poisonous Danfield minions of evil and return to California. Goodbye Love, I just bought myself a Title, so fuck all of you peasantry boors. 1
Daddydavek Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Interesting that so many have such strong opinions before finding out how Mark plays this out. I suspect there are still a few surprises for us and frankly while the whole idea of a menage a trois with Mary Ellen leaves me cold, I can see where a young, inexperienced JJ might be curious. In the whole scheme of things, I never thought Alex and JJ would have a relationship lasting more than perhaps a year, and nothing in the last few chapters has caused me to seriously reconsider that. However, I too must admit, I am more into the Brad-Marc and Will-Zach storyline. 5
ColumbusGuy Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Kitt and Method, I apologize for the way I stated my comments above--I can only say that they were not personal attacks, just of the opinion, and I could have said it better...but I have to say that the way Mark has planned this out does indeed make me ill, that was not exaggeration. I care so much for the characters he has portrayed that I see this as being insensitive to their natures...I have pretty much read this story straight through for nine months or so until I was caught up, so the characters, took on a life of their own as they should in good writing. I can't know what Mark's long-term vision for these guys is, no one but he can do that--but it IS my opinion that within these many books of CAP, he does appear to have betrayed the characters involved in this plot device...and that is what galls me the most. His work has always been well-written and worked on both the physical, psychological and logical levels...but this one is seriously out of kilter with the demonstrated actions of the players involved. I am not going to say that Mark can make no errors because I think he has here...that is my opinion, and it seems many readers agree with me, he is human and so am I, and I let my high emotion get carried away when I said that about your and method's opinion--again, I'm very sorry for that...you are both nice people and helpful to others, and I regret the words, but they can't be taken back, though I can alter them in the post...you have your right to the opinion you hold, as do I, even if mine could have been stated better. But the fact remains, the 'need to marry' argument doesn't hold water because it could have been done in other ways, with a proper matrimonial prospect of better character than M.E. Danfield, and Wade has lost moral ground with this decision--turning into his father slowly but surely as time goes on. And while JJ might be bisexual, and Alex isn't long term, no young man would sleep with a woman however 'hot' when he knows her character--and the fact that Alex has proposed this just highlights the fact that he really isn't concerned with JJ's feelings at all. My deepest apologies for what seemed a personal attack. Edited January 21, 2015 by ColumbusGuy
PrivateTim Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 As for Bridgemont--if that story spawned a complete asshole like Alex, then I won't waste my time on it beyond the couple chapters I've already read. Anyone else want to join me in heading for the Exit in search of barf bags? I am actually okay if the door hits you on the ass on the way out....... 5
PrivateTim Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) And while JJ might be bisexual, and Alex isn't long term, no young man would sleep with a woman however 'hot' when he knows her character--and the fact that Alex has proposed this just highlights the fact that he really isn't concerned with JJ's feelings at all. Yeah I recall when I was 16 how much the character of the skank ho bag I was banging mattered.... Edited January 21, 2015 by PrivateTim 4
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