W.a.r. By Jeff Wilson (Jkwsquirrel)

[Former Member]

33 minutes ago, Freerider said:

That wouldn't work in our legal system. You can't accuse and then force the other party to provide evidence against them...

Unless there was a paternity suit…

[JayT]

4 hours ago, Shadow086 said:

You know what?  I wish Someone would give Billy enough money to hire a lawyer.  Then Billy could spill Jack's secret, and when Jack sues him, he can take it to court and force Jack to take a paternity test to prove he isn't Brett's father.  I'd love to see Jack get out of this one, Billy would have him by the balls.  How could he make good on his threat when it means proving a lie out of the truth?  Billy still has all the cards, if he figures out how to play them right.

Aww but you see he holds absolutely no cards....he would need physical proof in order to hold the cards...all he has are suspicions and rumors. He can't prove anything so it ends up being the word of the respected lawyer that everyone in the town knows and likes against the word of the child who broke his hand from hitting a mirror because he has known anger issues. 

[Shadow086]

3 hours ago, Freerider said:

That wouldn't work in our legal system. You can't accuse and then force the other party to provide evidence against them...

Maybe I have this wrong, but I was assuming Jack would sue him for libel, which means he would need to prove that what Billy said was false in order to have him found guilty.

 

Of course, he's too clever for that, and he'd find some other bogus reason to sue them.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Shadow086

[Shadow086]

2 hours ago, JayT said:

Aww but you see he holds absolutely no cards....he would need physical proof in order to hold the cards...all he has are suspicions and rumors. He can't prove anything so it ends up being the word of the respected lawyer that everyone in the town knows and likes against the word of the child who broke his hand from hitting a mirror because he has known anger issues. 

Do you really think the respected lawyer hasn't threatened anyone else the way he did Billy?  Not everyone likes him, and I'm sure the people he wronged would be happy to help take him down, and if a bunch of rumours start spreading at once...  He can't sue everyone into silence, the town will get suspicious.  Jack will slip up, you'll see...

 

Billy still has cards, he probably doesn't know what they are yet.  Neither do we, for that matter.

[JayT]

Just now, Shadow086 said:

Do you really think the respected lawyer hasn't threatened anyone else the way he did Billy?  Not everyone likes him, and I'm sure the people he wronged would be happy to help take him down, and if a bunch of rumours start spreading at once...  He can't sue everyone into silence, the town will get suspicious.  Jack will slip up, you'll see...

 

Billy still has cards, he probably doesn't know what they are yet.  Neither do we, for that matter.

but the lawyer doesn't threaten unless he has something to hold over the other's head...he has information to blackmail everyone in the town, so if they back up Billy, their secrets come out 

[jkwsquirrel]

Always fun to hear, or I guess read, your thoughts and conversations.  Okay, so here's the thing, Billy, as smart as he is, is just a kid.  If some adult who you know is important and you kind of respect yourself suddenly tells you that he's going to sue your family and destroy you, you don't think rationally about that.  Jack scared Billy so much he threw up.  Even if Jack was mostly bluffing, Billy thinks Jack's going to do something terrible if Billy tells anyone what he knows.  It's a grown adult with years of battles behind him against a 16-year-old kid who is scared for his life.  Then there was the double whammy when the preacher went after him too.  To Billy, it means the whole world is against him.  Maybe Billy is right to be afraid?

[Shadow086]

Sue them for what?  George or Paula never did anything to him that would justify suing them, so that leaves Billy.  And what could he sue Billy for, defamation?  If Billy sticks to his guns and lets this go to court, Jack would have to prove Billy's claims are false, and he can't do that.  What Jack did aren't the actions of a clever lawyer.  Once again, Billy's sexuality was used against him.  Billy really needs to come out, then Jack would have a lot less leverage against him.  I'm starting to think Jack is evil enough to be behind Brett's car accident.  It would get rid of the 'evidence', and if it doesn't work, it scares Jen into keeping her mouth shut.  Jack's playing a dangerous game, because at some point people are going to decide their secrets aren't worth living under Jack's thumb.  Jack's a bully, and he'll end up going after the wrong person one day.  To be clear, by 'wrong person' I mean another relatively well respected member of the community who will cause the town to wonder why he's airing that dirty laundry in public.

 

People like Jack tend to get overconfident and make careless mistakes, and that leads to their undoing.  Jack's can't come soon enough.  I think that once Paula sees what the social circle she's trying to join is really like (probably when they go after her and Billy personally), she's going to be Billy's ally in this.  Hopefully they can start by getting rid of the preacher so Jack has one less powerful ally to support him.

 

Jeff, I just get more pissed off the longer Jack gets away with this stuff.  I hope he goes down soon.

[Freerider]

5 hours ago, droughtquake said:

Unless there was a paternity suit…

We were talking about Billy suing(?) weren't we?

[Freerider]

3 hours ago, Shadow086 said:

Maybe I have this wrong, but I was assuming Jack would sue him for libel, which means he would need to prove that what Billy said was false in order to have him found guilty.

 

Of course, he's too clever for that, and he'd find some other bogus reason to sue them.

No, it was about Billy suing Jack

Edited September 8, 2017 by Freerider

[Shadow086]

Just now, Freerider said:

We were talking about Billy suing(?) weren't we?

I was talking about Jack following through on his threat to sue Billy and his family if he talked.  That would mean Jack would most likely have to prove that Billy was lying about Jack being Brett's father.

[Freerider]

1 minute ago, Shadow086 said:

I was talking about Jack following through on his threat to sue Billy and his family if he talked.  That would mean Jack would most likely have to prove that Billy was lying about Jack being Brett's father.

Nope, also in this case the burden of proof would be on Billy, assuming Jack goes for defamation of character...

[Shadow086]

15 minutes ago, Freerider said:

Nope, also in this case the burden of proof would be on Billy, assuming Jack goes for defamation of character...

Still, Billy could then request that paternity test.  Jack should have no problem with that if he's really innocent, and, assuming he's crafty enough, Billy could also try to present it in a way that would make Jack's refusal appear as an admission of 'guilt' (not the right term, but that's the general idea).  If Jack's so perfect and has nothing to hide, he wouldn't mind doing the paternity test and publicly humiliate Billy, now would he?

 

Now, I'm thinking Jack is smarter than that, and he'd probably try to do defamation of character himself on George and Paula so they both lose their jobs.  Much harder to prove he's behind it than if he just sued them for no logical reason.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Shadow086

[Freerider]

6 minutes ago, Shadow086 said:

Still, Billy could then request that paternity test.  Jack should have no problem with that if he's really innocent, and, assuming he's crafty enough, Billy could also try to present it in a way that would make Jack's refusal appear as an admission of 'guilt' (not the right term, but that's the general idea).  If Jack's so perfect and has nothing to hide, he wouldn't mind doing the paternity test and publicly humiliate Billy, now would he?

lol, I have to credit you for trying, but alas, no again. Jack can just ignore that. Billy is no party in a paternity test of Brett/Jack.

 

Nobody is gonna think anything bad if Jack refuses to be forced by some 16 year old kid, who obviously has some issues...

... and who is going to be sentenced for defamation of character on top of that. So even the judge thinks Jack is right (in the eye of the law, he is) Why would other people think Jack is not right if even the judge says he is?

Edited September 8, 2017 by Freerider

[Shadow086]

17 minutes ago, Freerider said:

lol, I have to credit you for trying, but alas, no again. Jack can just ignore that. Billy is no party in a paternity test of Brett/Jack.

 

Nobody is gonna think anything bad if Jack refuses to be forced by some sort of 16 year old kid, who obviously has some issues...

... and who is going to be sentenced for defamation of character on top of that. So even the judge thinks Jack is right (in the eye of the law, he is) Why would other people think Jack is not right if even the judge says he is?

Brett's likely to get involved by that point, and he's party to it.

 

And if it's coming from some 16 year old kid with issues, why would Jack even bother to acknowledge it?  If Billy claims were so ridiculous, I wouldn't expect Jack to even bother suing him over it.  The fact that he'd be willing to sue over it could give Billy's claims more substance in the eyes of some people.

 

Ultimately I think Jack was bluffing.  Doing something as public as this runs the risk of things coming out that he'd rather stay hidden, and while he'd still get away with it, whatever comes out of that trial could get a lot of people to start thinking about things and connecting the dots, and Jack doesn't want that.  Jack's smarter than that, he'll find a more subtle way to destroy Billy.  Like character assassination, which he already started doing with Paula.

 

EDIT:  I understand the legal things and all that, I just don't see what Jack has to gain by suing Billy.  He's too smart to try something that could backfire on him like that.  Oh, how I wish Billy had that conversation on tape...

Edited September 8, 2017 by Shadow086

[Freerider]

I am not convinced Brett would want to be part of a paternity suit. I won't start another page long discussion, but I am convinced he is not going to be a party in that.

 

Of course Jack is bluffing and it is very effective. So no reason to follow up on his threats.

 

My responses merely tried to bring some reality to the legal fantasies that were developing here.

[Shadow086]

11 minutes ago, Freerider said:

I am not convinced Brett would want to be part of a paternity suit. I won't start another page long discussion, but I am convinced he is not going to be a party in that.

 

Of course Jack is bluffing and it is very effective. So no reason to follow up on his threats.

 

My responses merely tried to bring some reality to the legal fantasies that were developing here.

I will admit to getting carried away in my desire to see Jack brought down from his pedestal.

 

The fact that Brett suddenly stopped asking about his father makes me suspect that he knows anyway.  He probably doesn't care and is more upset at his mom for lying to him than wanting to know about his father in the first place.  Hanging around Joey so much, he can't have missed the fact that they look so much alike and could pass off as brothers (which they are).

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Brett just tells Billy he already knows and to drop it because it's not worth the trouble.  Brett won't want this to keep eating away at Billy, and he knows Billy's the type to go nuclear again and ruin his own life in the process.  And Billy's going to keep it shut if Brett tells him to.  With Brett's help, Billy and Jack should be able to reach an agreement to stay out of each other's business.

 

Edited September 8, 2017 by Shadow086

[Freerider]

1 minute ago, Shadow086 said:

I will admit to getting carried away in my desire to see Jack brought down from his pedestal.

 

The fact that Brett suddenly stopped asking about his father makes me suspect that he knows anyway.  He probably doesn't care and is more upset at his mom for lying to him than wanting to know about his father in the first place.  Hanging around Joey so much, he can't have missed the fact that they look so much alike and could pass off as brothers (which they are).

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Brett just tells Billy he already knows and to drop it because it's not worth the trouble.  Brett won't want this to keep eating away at Billy, and he knows Billy's the type to go nuclear again and ruin his own life in the process.  And Billy's going to keep it shut if Brett tells him to.

 

 

lol, thanks for admitting that 😛

 

and the rest of your comment could have been copied from my list of reasons I don't see Brett involved in a paternity suit instigated by Billy. 

 

[Shadow086]

Well, I viewed it as Billy trying to use paternity as his line of defense, seeing as that would likely be the claim that prompted the lawsuit in the first place.  He'd be trying to prove that what he said was true.  The thing about the truth, though, is that it always finds its way out.

 

Moving on, Carl Stevens is who Billy should go after at this point.  Doing that would take away some of Jack's control over the church, and by extension, the community.  Something tells me this isn't the last we've heard of Nate Stevens.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Shadow086

[Former Member]

2 hours ago, Shadow086 said:

Something tells me this isn't the last we've heard of Nate Stevens.

Wasn’t there a second kid who was exiled? One that jkw told us would return to school later?

[Former Member]

3 hours ago, Freerider said:

We were talking about Billy suing(?) weren't we?

The question I was answering was, how could you force Jack to take a DNA test?

 

My answer was more hypothetical than @Shadow086’s after I handed him the baton…

[JayT]

11 hours ago, Shadow086 said:

Still, Billy could then request that paternity test.  Jack should have no problem with that if he's really innocent, and, assuming he's crafty enough, Billy could also try to present it in a way that would make Jack's refusal appear as an admission of 'guilt' (not the right term, but that's the general idea).  If Jack's so perfect and has nothing to hide, he wouldn't mind doing the paternity test and publicly humiliate Billy, now would he?

 

Now, I'm thinking Jack is smarter than that, and he'd probably try to do defamation of character himself on George and Paula so they both lose their jobs.  Much harder to prove he's behind it than if he just sued them for no logical reason.

there's absolutely no way Billy can demand any paternity test... he's not involved... the mother or guardian of a minor are the only ones who can ask a judge to court order a paternity test

[jkwsquirrel]

An enjoyable discussion, as always!  Not sure why Billy would want a paternity test at this point.  He wants to hide the truth from Brett, not reveal it.  Well, he doesn't want Brett to know he knows, he may not care so much about Brett discovering the truth about Jack!  Billy isn't all that interested in stirring up trouble.  He's more interested in protecting himself and being left alone.

[Former Member]

1 hour ago, jkwsquirrel said:

Not sure why Billy would want a paternity test at this point.

Maybe Billy is hoping against hope that he has a different mother?  ;-)

[Shadow086]

11 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

Maybe Billy is hoping against hope that he has a different mother?  ;-)

Then he should want a maternity test instead.

 

And Jeff, I figured he'd want a paternity test to protect himself if Jack followed through on his threat.  There's a risk he'd go after Billy if any rumours started about him, even if Billy had nothing to do with it.  But as I said before, it's not in Jack's interest to go ahead with a lawsuit, and I don't think he's that petty.

Edited September 9, 2017 by Shadow086

[Former Member]

12 minutes ago, Shadow086 said:

Then he should want a maternity test instead.

I was using the word as a little used (aka unrecognized) variant of parent.  ;-)

Edited September 9, 2017 by Former Member