Could you please review my story, i gain nothing from it, it's free.

[Hardianarcher]

Welcome to Redwaters - Chapter One
https://www.wattpad.com/1387315469-welcome-to-redwaters-chapter-one?utm_source=web&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share_reading

 

 

[Bill W]

 

I deleted this section. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Bill W

[Krista]

The first two paragraphs are unnecessary. I don't know what your background in writing is, but there is a concept of 'showing,' and not 'telling.' Especially with plot and characters. Right now, you're telling us how your characters are, and not showing us. You show through dialog, mannerisms, how they react to the world around them.

Telling us the characters are wise, cold, serene, decidedly unique , does nothing for us - let us figure that out on our own. You telling us gives us way too much fun information about them, that is better learned over time. Doing so also traps you very quickly in the writing and the character development. It also stifles their arcs, significantly. There are major issues with telling rather than showing.

1. If you tell us early on, the information can be forgotten. As you feel you've covered the characters, especially if you do not remind us (which becomes repetitive, if you do) as new characters are introduced. So don't tell us what they are, show us who they are continuously, especially if you intend on them growing through what you've already expressed. They cannot change if you've told us what they are, and never revisit that. 

2. If you tell us, but never show us evidence of how they're serene, distant, cold, you miss opportunities to flesh them out. In telling us all of this, you lose a huge portion of your story, doing so in the first two paragraphs makes them more of a Stat-sheet than a fleshed out character.

-- So I would personally copy/paste the first three paragraphs, then break it down in outline form. Use that as a character reference to keep coming back to. Then I would delete it from the start of the story. The opening dialog of: "I don't remember it being so gray here," - can be a tag-line. Then you can go into describing where they are exactly, why it is different, and somewhat of 'why' they are there. I feel it is better to start your writing with a bit of action, and a conversation can be that. You gain most of your readers in the first two or three paragraphs of a story. Your opening paragraphs are 'telling' us about characters that we do not 'at all' care about yet. 

--  Afterwards, I do agree with Bill W, it gets confusing. The two characters become talking heads, there isn't enough depth in their surroundings. You 'tell' of a looming threat, that isn't felt in the surroundings they're currently inhabiting. Other than it being 'gray,' which you don't go into too much detail about. Is it 'gray' because it is overcast? Or is it 'gray' because there's something else going on entirely, that we need to be made aware? Is it only something they can see? I'm sensing paranormal aspects within this story, but it shouldn't be that up in the air, now that we're starting to get immersed into the world. 

I'm also seeing a lot of dialog tags that doesn't coincide with what the characters are saying. There is also a lot of telling, rather than showing in your dialog as well. Show us that Ouray is surprised that Hadrian is going to possibly miss the wedding. Show us that Hadrian is uneasy about being back home. Do so in the set of shoulders, the glint in their eyes, the nervous twitch of a finger, or a wave of a hand, etc. Give your characters movement, their senses of taste, hearing, smell, touch. 

-- Okay, it took a bit to get to the paranormal aspects of this story. I feel there would be less confusion, if you did some backstory on Redwaters, the place. I think the readers need to know what the characters are stepping into. You don't have to explain the entire history of the place, just something to make the readers feel uneasy. Right now, you're telling us that the place is dangerous, unstable, and there are dark forces. Again, what the characters know doesn't connect with what they're feeling/thinking in the moment. Now with the inner-dialog of Hadrian as he's driving towards the Mansion, it becomes more disconnected as you're telling us of all these negative things about a place we have no history on. So, a little history would do some good here. 

-- There are some major issues with telling and not showing as well. I'm guessing the "mortal townsfolk" are blissfully unaware of everything about Redwaters and only the paranormal characters know anything. Still yet, you've already broken from Hadrian's character. Hadrian is supposed to be cold and distant, unapproachable. So the townsfolk seeing him as charismatic wouldn't fit his character. He wouldn't be aware of their feelings towards him at this point in the story either way.

-- There is a plot-hole just before the first break as well. If Fleur had already briefed them on her concerns, they wouldn't exactly be walking in blindly and completely out of the loop. So you would need to relay that information to the readers, otherwise we're just sitting here confused and waiting. She wouldn't tell them just that she is worried, she would give them reasons. Both the Hadrian and Ouray characters are accustomed to Redwaters as they once lived there. They know the history, so they should know 'something' about what they're coming back to as well. I think telling us a small history of the place may fill this gap, and may help with the plot-hole as well.

-- a small thing, "his fiancée.." just use his/her name. It makes it far less confusing jumping between the two, since both are similar in spelling otherwise. 

-- another editing thing, you're using ... more than you should. Sometimes a simple comma or a semicolon would work a lot better. Also, if all the characters do that, then none of the character's style of talking stands out. Especially if you're doing it in dialog where there's a sudden change of thought, or what the character is about to say. All four of them so far have done this, you need to make their voices more distinct between the four of them. There is some distinctness, as Elliot and Fleur seem more lighter and happier, but still similar. If that continues with more and more characters being introduced, it becomes a larger distraction. 

-- You also have a lot of unnecessary punctuation intermingled in your dialog. Especially in the Fluer/Elliot opening scenes as he is readying himself for work. It breaks up the flow. 

-- I actually feel the Fleur's dream works well as a prologue. Rewrite it to where the reader doesn't know that she is dreaming, until she wakes up. Then the opening line of the story, being Hadrian's first words about it being "Gray.." would make your story a lot more attention getting. With a little bit of rewriting after Elliot leaves the house, you wouldn't really even miss that entire portion within the main context of the story. 

------

And, I just realized this story is really long. So there is a lot there that I may be confusing you on, but the sections I read, I hope was helpful to you. The main issue being that you do a lot of "telling.." and not, "showing," which may or may not rectify itself as you get farther along in the writing. It seemed to slow down a little when Fleur/Elliot were introduced. I'm not all that accustomed to wattpad, but I agree, if this story can be broken up and into distinct chapters, then I would do so.

I will come back to this, if you wish me to, to go farther with it after Fleur's dream. 

 

[Bill W]

@Krista  I tried to help, but I guess it just goes to show how little I actually know about the art of writing.  It seems that I just wing it. Your comments were so much better that I deleted mine so I didn't confuse the issue.  

Edited October 11, 2023 by Bill W

[Hardianarcher]

3 hours ago, Krista said:

The first two paragraphs are unnecessary. I don't know what your background in writing is, but there is a concept of 'showing,' and not 'telling.' Especially with plot and characters. Right now, you're telling us how your characters are, and not showing us. You show through dialog, mannerisms, how they react to the world around them.

Telling us the characters are wise, cold, serene, decidedly unique , does nothing for us - let us figure that out on our own. You telling us gives us way too much fun information about them, that is better learned over time. Doing so also traps you very quickly in the writing and the character development. It also stifles their arcs, significantly. There are major issues with telling rather than showing.

1. If you tell us early on, the information can be forgotten. As you feel you've covered the characters, especially if you do not remind us (which becomes repetitive, if you do) as new characters are introduced. So don't tell us what they are, show us who they are continuously, especially if you intend on them growing through what you've already expressed. They cannot change if you've told us what they are, and never revisit that. 

2. If you tell us, but never show us evidence of how they're serene, distant, cold, you miss opportunities to flesh them out. In telling us all of this, you lose a huge portion of your story, doing so in the first two paragraphs makes them more of a Stat-sheet than a fleshed out character.

-- So I would personally copy/paste the first three paragraphs, then break it down in outline form. Use that as a character reference to keep coming back to. Then I would delete it from the start of the story. The opening dialog of: "I don't remember it being so gray here," - can be a tag-line. Then you can go into describing where they are exactly, why it is different, and somewhat of 'why' they are there. I feel it is better to start your writing with a bit of action, and a conversation can be that. You gain most of your readers in the first two or three paragraphs of a story. Your opening paragraphs are 'telling' us about characters that we do not 'at all' care about yet. 

--  Afterwards, I do agree with Bill W, it gets confusing. The two characters become talking heads, there isn't enough depth in their surroundings. You 'tell' of a looming threat, that isn't felt in the surroundings they're currently inhabiting. Other than it being 'gray,' which you don't go into too much detail about. Is it 'gray' because it is overcast? Or is it 'gray' because there's something else going on entirely, that we need to be made aware? Is it only something they can see? I'm sensing paranormal aspects within this story, but it shouldn't be that up in the air, now that we're starting to get immersed into the world. 

I'm also seeing a lot of dialog tags that doesn't coincide with what the characters are saying. There is also a lot of telling, rather than showing in your dialog as well. Show us that Ouray is surprised that Hadrian is going to possibly miss the wedding. Show us that Hadrian is uneasy about being back home. Do so in the set of shoulders, the glint in their eyes, the nervous twitch of a finger, or a wave of a hand, etc. Give your characters movement, their senses of taste, hearing, smell, touch. 

-- Okay, it took a bit to get to the paranormal aspects of this story. I feel there would be less confusion, if you did some backstory on Redwaters, the place. I think the readers need to know what the characters are stepping into. You don't have to explain the entire history of the place, just something to make the readers feel uneasy. Right now, you're telling us that the place is dangerous, unstable, and there are dark forces. Again, what the characters know doesn't connect with what they're feeling/thinking in the moment. Now with the inner-dialog of Hadrian as he's driving towards the Mansion, it becomes more disconnected as you're telling us of all these negative things about a place we have no history on. So, a little history would do some good here. 

-- There are some major issues with telling and not showing as well. I'm guessing the "mortal townsfolk" are blissfully unaware of everything about Redwaters and only the paranormal characters know anything. Still yet, you've already broken from Hadrian's character. Hadrian is supposed to be cold and distant, unapproachable. So the townsfolk seeing him as charismatic wouldn't fit his character. He wouldn't be aware of their feelings towards him at this point in the story either way.

-- There is a plot-hole just before the first break as well. If Fleur had already briefed them on her concerns, they wouldn't exactly be walking in blindly and completely out of the loop. So you would need to relay that information to the readers, otherwise we're just sitting here confused and waiting. She wouldn't tell them just that she is worried, she would give them reasons. Both the Hadrian and Ouray characters are accustomed to Redwaters as they once lived there. They know the history, so they should know 'something' about what they're coming back to as well. I think telling us a small history of the place may fill this gap, and may help with the plot-hole as well.

-- a small thing, "his fiancée.." just use his/her name. It makes it far less confusing jumping between the two, since both are similar in spelling otherwise. 

-- another editing thing, you're using ... more than you should. Sometimes a simple comma or a semicolon would work a lot better. Also, if all the characters do that, then none of the character's style of talking stands out. Especially if you're doing it in dialog where there's a sudden change of thought, or what the character is about to say. All four of them so far have done this, you need to make their voices more distinct between the four of them. There is some distinctness, as Elliot and Fleur seem more lighter and happier, but still similar. If that continues with more and more characters being introduced, it becomes a larger distraction. 

-- You also have a lot of unnecessary punctuation intermingled in your dialog. Especially in the Fluer/Elliot opening scenes as he is readying himself for work. It breaks up the flow. 

-- I actually feel the Fleur's dream works well as a prologue. Rewrite it to where the reader doesn't know that she is dreaming, until she wakes up. Then the opening line of the story, being Hadrian's first words about it being "Gray.." would make your story a lot more attention getting. With a little bit of rewriting after Elliot leaves the house, you wouldn't really even miss that entire portion within the main context of the story. 

------

And, I just realized this story is really long. So there is a lot there that I may be confusing you on, but the sections I read, I hope was helpful to you. The main issue being that you do a lot of "telling.." and not, "showing," which may or may not rectify itself as you get farther along in the writing. It seemed to slow down a little when Fleur/Elliot were introduced. I'm not all that accustomed to wattpad, but I agree, if this story can be broken up and into distinct chapters, then I would do so.

I will come back to this, if you wish me to, to go farther with it after Fleur's dream. 

 

Thank you so much for your feedback! i am very pleased you took the time to review my work! i agree with you on much of the aspects, and i would really like it if you keep on reading (if it doesn't bore you too much) so i can keep editing while keeping your opinion in mind. Starting the book that way was a way-i thought- to have the reader immersed immediately in the story, as if he was witnessing everything happening, not understanding much, and having everything clear up slowly as the story progressed... Although, what you see as a "plot hole", i don't really see as one. They know flashs from Fleur's dream that she can't realy clearly remeber herself, but has no context to what the REAL threat is. Hence the confusion, questions around it. 

Thank you again for taking the time! 

[LJCC]

Your opening lines:

Quote

Hadrian carried within him a troubled aura, a glint of unease that couldn't escape Ouray's discerning gaze. Their deep connection allowed them to understand each other beyond words, and Ouray knew that the apparent calm of Hadrian concealed elusive inner turmoil. He was like a silent guardian, capable of piercing through his friend's veils and deciphering the emotions hidden behind his impassive mask.

The two men were a striking study in contrast. Ouray exuded wisdom, his casual attire highlighting his authentic nature. He wore light jeans and an unbuttoned linen shirt, casually revealing a pendant bearing an ancient symbol that bore the weathered marks of time. His shoulder-length hair was tied in a half-ponytail, uncovering his face marked by a mysterious scar. The faded line that snaked from his eyebrow to the bottom of his right eye lent a fearless aspect to his coppery complexion. Despite this mark, Ouray emitted a serene energy that underscored his decidedly unique character.

 

 

 

My interpretation (take it as you will):

Quote

Hadrian carried with him a troublesome aura, a glint of unease that couldn't escape Ouray's discerning gaze. 

"Stop looking at me like that," said Hadrian, infused with impatience against his old but veritable master.

"We've been driving for two days, and this is unacceptable!"

"You drive then."

"I can't," said Ouray. "I don't have my licence."

"And that's why I'm here, and you're sitting there. Please be patient. We're getting close, I promise."

The young apprentice glanced at his master, looking up at the side-view mirror, eyes set forward, passing through the brackish waters of the River Styx that had split the quaint, dilapidated town of Mooresville. Driving an old 1970s Chevy on the highway stretch, they were on their way to Redwaters, a small town with a population of 670, and were about to meet Mayor Landwell. Behind the wheels, Hadrian was examining the disposition of the older entity he'd been totting around in the presence of mere mortals for nearly a century. He's getting impatient, he thought. Light jeans, an unbuttoned linen shirt, and a pendant bearing the ancient symbol of gods long gone and forgotten, he had style resembling the leader of an occult, which Hadrian had told him—numerous times—that it was inappropriate, like a door-to-door snake-oil charmer selling dollar tonics for any malady imaginable. Apart from the similarities to a travelling salesman, Ouray wore his golden hair tied in a ponytail, covering his partial face with a mysterious scar—the faded line that snaked Ouray's eyebrow had slashed his right eye—lending a fearless image drawn out by his coppery complexion. The man was a looker if you covered your eye and squinted to your right. 

 

 

 

 

• In those few paragraphs, the audience gets to know:
  • Their goal (to head out to Redwaters).
  • Their relationship.
  • The dynamic of their relationship (Hadrian being outspoken but revering his master).
  • What Ouray looks like.
  • And the overall arching theme of the story.

Sadly, these are things missing in your entire novel. Because there's an extreme volume of telling, and the specific details of what you want to show to your readers aren't shown or never shown at all. I personally can survive telling (if the narration is excellent) but in your story, the details in itself are very vague, obtuse, and elementary. 

Quote

Hadrian carried within him a troubled aura, a glint of unease that couldn't escape Ouray's discerning gaze. Their deep connection allowed them to understand each other beyond words, and Ouray knew that the apparent calm of Hadrian concealed elusive inner turmoil. He was like a silent guardian, capable of piercing through his friend's veils and deciphering the emotions hidden behind his impassive mask.

 

 

 

• What is this discerning gaze?
• What is this deep connection?
• What is this elusive inner turmoil?
• What is piercing through his friend's veil?
  • Are they friends with benefits?
  • Friends for a lifetime?
  • BFF-friends?
  • Plot friends that eventually disappear somewhere in the story

There are so many question that doesn't relatively get answered throughout 10k+++ words first chapter you've posted. If you are going to put mysterious vague details, it has to be specific.

• Elusive inner turmoil.
  • ...and Ouray knew the apparent calm of Hadrian's concealed elusive inner turmoil that decimated an entire town three centuries ago.
    • that decimated an entire town three centuries ago = was an event when Hadrian called forth the power of the dark forces, blah-di-blah-blah, and murdered the entire city of Genovia, which is revealed by the middle of the story and haphazardly mentioned from time to time.

If I'm truly being honest, this is a hard read.

You have the grammar, and I'd assume, the prose, to write a cohesive story, but you're caught too much in your own voice, only hearing yourself, forgetting that you have actual readers to tell your story to.

• Hadrian carried within him a troubled aura, a glint of unease that couldn't escape Ouray's discerning gaze.
• Their deep connection allowed them to understand each other beyond words, and Ouray knew that the apparent calm of Hadrian concealed elusive inner turmoil.
• He was like a silent guardian, capable of piercing through his friend's veils and deciphering the emotions hidden behind his impassive mask.

These are the things only you, as the writer of the story, know. Unless you learn when/where/why you should start mixing Showing and Telling, your stories would be very difficult to read, as kindly as I'm putting it.

 

 

 

 

[Hardianarcher]

Thank you so much for you feedback! i really enjoyed your reinterpretation of my first paragraph, althought most details arent't cohesive with my story as Ouray is actually quite handsome, needs to be driving at some point and is not a master to Hadrian, but i did  get the idea and what you were trying to say to me... i do really like the rythme it gave the first paragraph.. That being said,  i wanted to ask you how far you went into the story before reviewing it ?

Also, i was really curious as to why some people are asking for context so early on in the story? It was my intention to confuse the reader in the beginning and have the story unfold as they slowly move forward.

Chaptrer 2 is already up, maybe you'll warm up more to my idea of a the slow burn that i'm trying to create, as it was really my intention ...

This story is also my own traduction from my french book, that was written as an episodic tv show, hence the telling instead of showing...

Thank you so much for your review, i hope you keep reading!

[LJCC]

Ok. Something is clearly lost in the translation.

Edited October 14, 2023 by LJCC

[Hardianarcher]

Thanks again for your feedback! i am indeed asking for pointers and opinions, and even though reading that my writing is "pretentious" isn't the best feeling ,i'll admit, you do have valid points, and for that, i am very grateful!

I would love to find the right editor for the book, do you have any good recommendations? I am fairly new to world and very open to find the right match to better my book!

I really appreciate you taking the time!

Did you get to the last part of the second chapter? I think it gets better in terms of showing instead of telling, you'll let me know if you ever get t it!

I hope you don't lose patience! 

[LJCC]

9 hours ago, Hardianarcher said:

Thanks again for your feedback! i am indeed asking for pointers and opinions, and even though reading that my writing is "pretentious" isn't the best feeling ,i'll admit, you do have valid points, and for that, i am very grateful!

I would love to find the right editor for the book, do you have any good recommendations? I am fairly new to world and very open to find the right match to better my book!

I really appreciate you taking the time!

Did you get to the last part of the second chapter? I think it gets better in terms of showing instead of telling, you'll let me know if you ever get t it!

I hope you don't lose patience! 

 

 

 

 

It does get better. Not in the sense that I still would want to read it, but it's bearable.

As a writer, you need to have this VERY I mean, VERY important skill called, "Reading your own story," not through the eyes of an author, not through the eyes of you, the writer of this story, BUT through the eyes of your readers.

It takes a lot of mental acuity to have this skill. Because hiring editors is expensive. Even if you do hire an editor, they won't 100% understand your story or get your flow. So that 20%, from an 80/20 perspective, comes from editing your story with the editor having 80% of the burden, and you, the writer, left with 20%.

Switching back and forth while reading your story as:

• A reader
• An editor
• A beta reader

Leaves you with these questions you'd have in your head:

• Reader POV:
  • This sounds weird. I think this would be understandable if I do it like this...
  • Shit. The name suddenly changed.
  • There's a dangling participle. Better change that.
  • There's a run-on sentence. That doesn't seem right.
  • Shit! I forgot to put a period.
• Editor POV:
  • This part needs to be cut.
  • This here sounds too long.
  • The voice in this segment is a bit weird; too much exposition. I need to cut that.
  • This section needs to be shortened. It's dragging the story.
• Beta-Reader POV:
  • Who am I focusing on? Geezus Christ. One paragraph focuses on the protagonist and now it switches to the second protagonist. I need to change this shit...even I'm confused.
  • Ok. I understand the plot. But why is my character going to this place? This is two pages of meandering in the woods...
  • NO. This character's annoying. I can't deal with him.
  • Better change his dialogue. I want him to be sassy.
  • This plot doesn't make sense. So he rushes to save him. Why? He's a piece of shit. So why is the hero wanting to save him? Tell me why?

And then you're either left with two options:

This is a lost cause. Scrap this and start anew.

OR, this needs some editing.

This is an excerpt from a story I wrote when I was 15:

Quote

Have you ever wondered why we need to breathe? Yes, it is a reflexive action, an automatic need for our lungs to spread out oxygen in our body for us to function as normal humans do. But have you really asked yourself why we do it? You know, the thing that makes us wonder why, out of all the necessities in life, breathing is the only thing that does not make any sense.

 

 

 

 

It's from a novel I wrote when I was 15.

Is it disgusting? YES.

Is it gross? YES.

Do I want to stab my eyes from reading it? YES.

Does it sound pretentious and very amateurish? Definitely YES. Certainly YES.

 

All I'm saying, is you'd need to learn the art of self-editing. Otherwise, no one will ever touch on your story unless you've personally done some rewrites.

This is my advice if you're really serious about writing and you're planning to put it out there.

EDIT, EDIT, EDIT.

You can do so much with editing. Think of editing as the Photoshop of writing.

The writing might be shit, but the final product might surprise you.

That's just the power of good editing.

 

 

 

[Hardianarcher]

Thanks again for taking the time, happy you went from abhorrent to bearable!

I will keep in mind all your input, while  rewriting and HEAVILY editing the project.