Rules of Writing

[DarkShadow]

I just fired off an email, and it brought up a subject that I'd like to get your input on.

 

Who are these 'Rule Nazis' that dictate how we write?

 

Painting, singing, dance, music, writing, and many more I don't care to mention are forms of ART right? Music has timing and key. Painting has brush strokes, medium, and canvas. Writing has mechanics, grammar, and spelling.

 

When a new 'style' of painting, for instance, is brought into the public eye, if enough people like it, it becomes a new 'style'. People don't say, 'YOU CAN'T DO THAT! That's against the rules.'. Well some do, but generally the majority wins out, and a new 'style' is born.

 

I've heard on several occasions how you aren't supposed to separate voice, or transition between characters, and many other common preconcieved notions as to 'how' we are supposed to do something. So long as the flow, meaning, and fluidity of the reader isn't impaired, who are we to say 'that's not how you're supposed to do it'.

 

Many times, as I read a reivew of someone's writing, I'll come across a statement that invokes 'rule whatever' telling them they should have used 'this' to do 'that'. I'll think to myself, "Oh! I didn't know that, I'll have to remember that!" More and more I find myself thinking, "Why?" Did it somehow affect your ability to understand what was written?

 

I'm all for spelling, grammar, and punctuation. I'm all for making every sentence easy to read and flow smoothly. I suppose what I have issues with, is why these other 'rules' exist. Did someone just get bored?

 

Now... once the plot, spelling, grammar and punctuation are all a go, as far as any other 'rules' that come into play... I say SCREW 'EM!

[Matthew]

Well, I'm not a writer, but as an editor and reader I do have an opinion on this matter.

 

First and foremost, I don't believe there are any "rules" writing. Certainly there is spelling and grammar. But even with grammar, English is one of the loosest and most flexible languages in the world. When it comes to the things you talk about, I think of them as guidelines rather than rules. I think they're good for developing writers. Many writers switch voices because they aren't creative enough or don't want to put the effort into conveying the information in a manner consistent with their current voice. If you truly believe that the best way to tell the story is to switch between characters, go for it. Just understand that certain people won't like this and others may not be used to it, so you may lose readers.

 

It's not a matter so much of "understanding" what was written, but the best method of conveying information. I don't think that these rules resulted from boredom but because people, after reading many, many stories, developed rules of thumb. Like sticking to one voice generally makes a story easier to follow. This doesn't mean it applies to each and every story.

 

I don't think these "rules" should be ignored altogether, especially by developing authors, but I think they should be seen as "You should consider trying it this way" rather than "You can't do THAT!"

 

Just my 2 cents.

Edited November 5, 2006 by Matthew

[DarkShadow]

It's not a matter so much of "understanding" what was written, but the best method of conveying information. I don't think that these rules resulted from boredom but because people, after reading many, many stories, developed rules of thumb. Like sticking to one voice generally makes a story easier to follow. This doesn't mean it applies to each and every story.

 

I don't think these "rules" should be ignored altogether, especially by developing authors, but I think they should be seen as "You should consider trying it this way" rather than "You can't do THAT!"

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Thank you for your well thought reply. I wasn't really ranting in the post though, re-reading it, it does sound that way. So my apologies if it sounded a little 'cranky' lol

 

http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk5.html

 

I visit this site weekly to remind myself of the 'rules of thumb'. I know it doesn't show in my writing, but then again, I'm learning as I go... sloowwwwwllyyyyy heheh

 

It's not a matter so much of "understanding" what was written, but the best method of conveying information.

 

It is statements like these that I have issues with. Why is it the 'best' method? Who says? Couldn't someone who is proficient, write it anyway they like, and have it come out just as well without any detriment to the story?

 

CJames suggested that I try a third person narrative in a sneak peak I recently posted. The idea never occured to me, and it is something I will DEFINATELY do! I'm so glad he was honest with me, and made the suggestion. It's exactly what the chapter needs instead of the odd ball additional first person narrative. Being that that specific character will most likely never have another narrative in the the story, I was struggling with exactly how to move past it, but didn't want to lose the content that was written. It's an essential part of the story that simply can't be voiced by the main character.

 

Now... while this is a great example of what I'm saying here, it's not really the beginning and end of my original post.

 

What I suppose I'd like to know too, is, where might we find a general guideline, written with language I will understand, with examples of what is being explained?

 

Something like....

 

When writing in first person, unless each character is going to have a voice, only a third person should be included when needed for narrative when the main character isn't able to speak.

 

example

 

1st

'Shit!" was my last thought as the bullet entered my chest.

 

3rd

The paramedics came to collect BobbyJoe's body and took him to the Hospital. It was a long surgery, but it was a success. yada yada

 

1st

An uncomfortable bed, and the lul of too many drugs welcomed me as I opened my eyes. "Woofty, that is definately going to leave a mark."

 

 

I suppose even though I've read a few books, and looked through several sights, what is being said there doesn't really sink in until I'm 'in' it so to speak. I guess that comes with experience.

 

Thanks again for helping to shed some light on the 'Rules of Thumb'!

 

Take care!

[Marty]

Thank you for your well thought reply. I wasn't really ranting in the post though, re-reading it, it does sound that way. So my apologies if it sounded a little 'cranky' lol

 

http://www.bartleby.com/141/strunk5.html

 

I visit this site weekly to remind myself of the 'rules of thumb'. I know it doesn't show in my writing, but then again, I'm learning as I go... sloowwwwwllyyyyy heheh

 

I've just had a quick skim throught that Elements of Style site.

 

Whilst it has a lot of useful information, I'd point out that the piece was written almost ninety years ago. So I'd not take everything in it as applicable to today. Styles do, and have, changed since the piece was written.

 

Rules are useful, particularly for a new author. But they are only rules at the end of the day. They're not laws. Feel free to bend them, even break them completely, if it helps get your point across. Just be aware, as Matthew points out, that you may lose a few readers or get some people (the "Rules Nazis' as you call them) upset with you.

 

But that didn't stop the like of James Joyce advancing the writing style.

 

~ Marty ~

Edited November 5, 2006 by Marty

[DarkShadow]

I've just had a quick skim throught that Elements of Style site.

 

Whilst it has a lot of useful information, I'd point out that the piece was written almost ninety years ago. So I'd not take everything in it as applicable to today. Styles do, and have, changed since the piece was written.

 

Rules are useful, particularly for a new author. But they are only rules at the end of the day. They're not laws. Feel free to bend them, even break them completely, if it helps get your point across. Just be aware, as Matthew points out, that you may lose a few readers or get some people (the "Rules Nazis' as you call them) upset with you.

 

But that didn't stop the like of James Joyce advancing the writing style.

 

~ Marty ~

 

Thanks Marty. Basically, I'm just trying to learn the 'why'. If I don't understand 'why' a thing is, it won't stick with me. I won't remember it, and I won't use it. I want to become the best writer I can be, but sometimes, the rules, seem out of nowhere. It's like the rules of typing. Two spaces after a period, 1 after a comma. This is for the ease of reading. That I can understand, remember, and use.

 

It's the many little rules like the sentence 'Two spaces after a period, 1 after a comma."

 

I had to go back and edit it because I spelled out the word one. The rule, I have been informed, is that numbers 1 through 9 are written as the numeral unless they begin a sentence. (yes I had to edit this sentence as well lol)

 

It's these little things that plague me, and unfortunately my editor. LOL He must have the patience of a saint!

[Dio]

Who are these 'Rule Nazis' that dictate how we write?

They're guidelines, not rules. No-one is dictating how you should write. Most of the 'rules' you'll come across stem from what has worked in the past. And, what I mean by that is--a book that sells. Rule Nazis are the publishers and the editors who have experience in the writing field first hand, or wannabes who think they could write your story better than you can. It takes all kinds.

 

And hey, if you can find someone who wants to pay you for a book that doesn't follow any of those so called 'rules', then good for you. Generally though, following certain guidelines will help you get your stuff published. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions.

 

Painting, singing, dance, music, writing, and many more I don't care to mention are forms of ART right? Music has timing and key. Painting has brush strokes, medium, and canvas. Writing has mechanics, grammar, and spelling.

 

When a new 'style' of painting, for instance, is brought into the public eye, if enough people like it, it becomes a new 'style'. People don't say, 'YOU CAN'T DO THAT! That's against the rules.'. Well some do, but generally the majority wins out, and a new 'style' is born.

 

I've heard on several occasions how you aren't supposed to separate voice, or transition between characters, and many other common preconcieved notions as to 'how' we are supposed to do something. So long as the flow, meaning, and fluidity of the reader isn't impaired, who are we to say 'that's not how you're supposed to do it'.

I completely agree with you. But I should preface that statement by saying of all the times I've seen people try and mix voices, it's turned me off of reading the rest of the story. Although, I do enjoy the humour associated with a first person perspective switch mid-paragraph every once in a while.

 

Hey, like I said, if you can pull it off then fine! Power to ya! Most people can't. And hey, I've seen an artist paint a red box on a white canvas and seen it sell for millions, so anything is possible.

 

Many times, as I read a reivew of someone's writing, I'll come across a statement that invokes 'rule whatever' telling them they should have used 'this' to do 'that'. I'll think to myself, "Oh! I didn't know that, I'll have to remember that!" More and more I find myself thinking, "Why?" Did it somehow affect your ability to understand what was written?

That's usually the answer. Although I wouldn't discount spite or a superiority complex.

 

I'm all for spelling, grammar, and punctuation. I'm all for making every sentence easy to read and flow smoothly. I suppose what I have issues with, is why these other 'rules' exist. Did someone just get bored?

 

Now... once the plot, spelling, grammar and punctuation are all a go, as far as any other 'rules' that come into play... I say SCREW 'EM!

Okay...like I said, these are guidelines. Not rules. Follow at your own discretion.

 

 

First and foremost, I don't believe there are any "rules" writing. Certainly there is spelling and grammar. But even with grammar, English is one of the loosest and most flexible languages in the world. When it comes to the things you talk about, I think of them as guidelines rather than rules. I think they're good for developing writers. Many writers switch voices because they aren't creative enough or don't want to put the effort into conveying the information in a manner consistent with their current voice. If you truly believe that the best way to tell the story is to switch between characters, go for it. Just understand that certain people won't like this and others may not be used to it, so you may lose readers.

Nod nod.

 

Readers get used to certain styles of writing. When you suddenly throw a kink in their line of thought, it can often detract from the overall enjoyment of the story. Again, I'm not saying you CAN'T pull it off, just rehashing that anything that makes it harder for the reader to understand generally does break some unwritten writing convention.

 

I don't think these "rules" should be ignored altogether, especially by developing authors, but I think they should be seen as "You should consider trying it this way" rather than "You can't do THAT!"

Alas! Critiques can sometimes upset the mythical author ego. They like it the way they've written it and get upset when someone tells informs them it wasn't as good as it could be.

 

 

It is statements like these that I have issues with. Why is it the 'best' method? Who says? Couldn't someone who is proficient, write it anyway they like, and have it come out just as well without any detriment to the story?

Welcome to the wonderful world of OPINION. In the court of popular opinion, you are guilty until proven innocent. Everything is relative. It just so happens that the most weighty opinions happen to come from the people who shell out money for stories.

 

 

What I suppose I'd like to know too, is, where might we find a general guideline, written with language I will understand, with examples of what is being explained?

 

Something like....

 

When writing in first person, unless each character is going to have a voice, only a third person should be included when needed for narrative when the main character isn't able to speak.

 

example

 

1st

'Shit!" was my last thought as the bullet entered my chest.

 

3rd

The paramedics came to collect BobbyJoe's body and took him to the Hospital. It was a long surgery, but it was a success. yada yada

 

1st

An uncomfortable bed, and the lul of too many drugs welcomed me as I opened my eyes. "Woofty, that is definately going to leave a mark."

And I get all itchy and scratchy here thinking 'narrative = pointless'. It's not to say it's wrong, or bad. It's an opinion. Having a bullet enter your chest...and then waking up in a hospital...well...there are only so many things that could have happened. Don't treat your reader like a moron. He can connect point A to point B. And what's preventing you from having 'worried friend A' come in and commiserate on how he found you, rushed you to the hospital, and stood around in the hall worrying...all in an intresting teary-eyed piece of dialogue that doesn't jump the reader out of perspective and cause tears out of boredom instead of empathy.

 

Is my way better? Well, in my opinion, yes. Yours may differ, and that's okay. The idea here is not to enforce how other people should write, but to elaborate on other possible ways to increase story flow and improve the piece of literature. What I've just stated is no 'rule', but it does follow some guidelines I myself have picked up reading and writing something that readers enjoy.

 

Unfortunately, there is no God of literature that knows all the rules. My advice is learn what you can from people you respect, and throw away what you don't like.

 

 

Thanks Marty. Basically, I'm just trying to learn the 'why'. If I don't understand 'why' a thing is, it won't stick with me.

I'm the same way. Next time someone shoves a 'rule' in your face, ask them to justify why! I do it all the time. It is well within your rights if they expect you to follow their advice.

 

Good luck!

-db-

[DomLuka]

I had to go back and edit it because I spelled out the word one. The rule, I have been informed, is that numbers 1 through 9 are written as the numeral unless they begin a sentence. (yes I had to edit this sentence as well lol)

 

It's these little things that plague me, and unfortunately my editor. LOL He must have the patience of a saint!

I don

[Marty]

Thanks Marty. Basically, I'm just trying to learn the 'why'. If I don't understand 'why' a thing is, it won't stick with me. I won't remember it, and I won't use it.

I know where you're coming from with this.

 

I've found myself suffering from more or less the same thing as regards cookery and recipes. When I first started having to cook for myself, I would follow a recipe to the letter afraid I'd make a mess of things otherwise. Then I came across a cook book that actually explored the why's of different types of cooking. Suddenly I found that I wasn't restricted to mere recipes anymore. I could actually start creating instead.

 

I want to become the best writer I can be, but sometimes, the rules, seem out of nowhere. It's like the rules of typing. Two spaces after a period, 1 after a comma. This is for the ease of reading. That I can understand, remember, and use.

 

It's the many little rules like the sentence 'Two spaces after a period, 1 after a comma."

As far as I know that rule only really applied in the days of typewriters, which used exactly the same amount of space between every keystroke. So it was easier to see the beginning of new sentences if two spaces were used after a period (notice I automatically spelled out the word 'two' there?). Indeed, when I first used a typewriter forty years or so back. I actually decided to use two spaces after a period - or an exclamation or question mark - for the simple reason that it just looked better to my eyes.

 

(As an aside, I'd actually prefer to use the term full stop here than period, for the simple reason that I always understood that a full stop came at the end of a sentence, whereas a period could be used in other places - after an abbreviation, for example.)

 

Most fonts on modern day word processors use differing amounts of space for letters. For example, the letter "m" uses more space than the letter "n". So, unless you are using a monospace font, like Courier New, which spaces the characters the same as an old fashioned typewriter did, it's generally okay nowadays to use one space after a period.

 

For a fuller discussion on this you might want to have a look here.

 

I had to go back and edit it because I spelled out the word one. The rule, I have been informed, is that numbers 1 through 9 are written as the numeral unless they begin a sentence. (yes I had to edit this sentence as well lol)

Having never even thought about this, I've just Googled "rules of writing" numbers and came across the following:

 

9. When should a number be written out, and when should a numeral be used?

Generally, numbers should be written as numerals (i.e. 8, 45, 1001), especially in writing where numbers frequently occur. Exceptions do occur; numbers spelled as one or two words and numbers at the beginning of a sentence may be spelled out. In addition, numbers like "second" and "tenth" should be spelled out. Be consistent within a passage, and for more detailed information consult a grammar guide.

(Taken from this site).

 

What struck me reading through that passage was that it seemed to break its own rule with the piece "Exceptions do occur; numbers spelled as one or two words and numbers at the beginning of a sentence may be spelled out." Why didn't the author write it as "...numbers spelled as 1 or 2 words.."?

 

I think the important thing comes near the end of the above piece: Be consistent within a passage.

 

And, to be honest with you, if I were writing your above 'rule', I would have written: "Two spaces after a period, one after a comma" myself.

 

~ Marty ~

Edited November 5, 2006 by Marty

[Dio]

my opinion agrees with yours.

 

We should organise a play-date for the two little tikes sometime seeing as they get along so well. If you bring your little guy over to my place we can sit by the fire and I'll teach you how one goes about not knitting and you can teach me how to tie cherry stems into knots with my tongue. We could go outside and build snow-men! Or...mud-men, seeing as we lack snow. Then we could end by baking cookies! Or just eating store-bought...that whole baking thing sounds like a lot of work. Okay! It's a plan!! You'll need to call my subconscious mind to confirm your reservation. He might take a while to get back to you--he has this weird tendency to get distracted by small shiny objects.

[DarkShadow]

WOW

 

I must admit this thread has grown it something much larger than I ever anticipated. Thank you all for expressing and explaining why things are the way they are and that nothing is set in stone.

 

I would say more, but that's really all there is to say. I've got lots to learn, and it is simply going to take time I suppose. (damn!) lol it's not that I didn't already know this though. Heh, if I ever quit learning, I'd better be dead.

 

So... again, thank you all very much for you input! I appreciate it!

[Graeme]

I don't think I have much to add to what's already said, but here goes anyway

 

Firstly, numbers as words or numerics is more an editing question than a writing one. Different editors have different opinions, and I suspect that part of the issue is whether the writing is fiction or non-fiction. As a general rule, I've found fiction tends to use words, with the exception of dates (eg. 31st October, 2006). I think the rule about using numerics probably applies more to non-fiction, especially non-fiction that has a heavy number content (eg. a statistical report).

 

As for other "rules", the idea is you should know what you are doing when you break them. Any rule in an artistic endeavour can be broken, and sometimes it works but most times it doesn't. It may not be obvious why the rules are there, but you can think of it as the accumulated wisdom of decades of writing by trial-and-error. If you know the rule and believe that you need to break it to achieve a particular effect, then go for it! Just don't break the rules through ignorance or laziness... because it'll show.

[C James]

It's the many little rules like the sentence 'Two spaces after a period, 1 after a comma."

 

I think (someone please correct me if I am wrong) that one is viewed as variable today, so long as one is consistent throughout the piece. In other words, one space after a period is acceptable so long as it is consistantly done.

 

As for the changing voices thing...I wouldn

[Matthew]

I think (someone please correct me if I am wrong) that one is viewed as variable today, so long as one is consistent throughout the piece. In other words, one space after a period is acceptable so long as it is consistantly done.

 

This is generally true with the exception of mono-spaced fonts. One should still use two spaces after a period if writing in a typeface that gives the same width to all characters, such as the Courier family of fonts. Because most fonts are now proportional, the two space rule has become somewhat obsolete. It originally came about in the days of typewriters which, at the time, were all mono-spaced.

 

I don't know if this is true anymore, but what I found interesting was that most browsers (a few years back, at least) would only render one space after a period no matter how many were in the source unless they were hard coded.

 

Also of note is that mono-spaced fonts, such as Courier New, can increase the number of pages of a report to bring it up to a minimum size because they can substantially lower the number of words that fit on a page. These are the useful things one learns in college.

Edited November 6, 2006 by Matthew

[Graeme]

I'm a little nervous about this, as I am not sure that my suggestion is a good one. The passage, as written, had a large amount occurring while the protagonist was not conscious, and had been written in the first person as a perspective change. I couldn't see a way to encompass it all in a recount after he regained consciousness, and it was critical to the plot immediately after he awakened. The only thing I could think of was to re-write that part in third person and in italics. I was hoping that some of the more experienced might weigh in on this, as I don't want to be steering Dark Shadow wrong.

This is highlighting one of the problems with a first-person based story -- sooner or later you want to be able to report things that the main character can't know. The short answer is that you need to find a way for them to discover the information. Be imaginative -- newspaper articles, TV reports, friends chatting, overheard conversations, aliens dropping in and doing a mind dump... there are lots of possibilities. It's a struggle, but it's a limitation in the perspective, and switching points of view is the lazy way of doing it. I had the same problem with my first story, which was in first person. I found myself wanting to tell the reader what was happening behind the back of the narrator, and I couldn't. I just had to accept it and work out other ways to do things, or just leave the ideas I had stillborn because I couldn't think of a way to make the narrator learn of them.

 

I don't think switching to third person for a short period would work, either, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

How about this for a suggestion -- the narrator finds the diary of one of his friends, and either looks in it unasked, or is invited to read part of it? The narrator would then be reporting what he read, and could quote verbatim, effectively giving another point of view, but without leaving the first-person point of view. If you do this, don't forget to interject with the narrator's thoughts as they read about what had been going on.

[DarkShadow]

This is highlighting one of the problems with a first-person based story -- sooner or later you want to be able to report things that the main character can't know. The short answer is that you need to find a way for them to discover the information. Be imaginative -- newspaper articles, TV reports, friends chatting, overheard conversations, aliens dropping in and doing a mind dump... there are lots of possibilities. It's a struggle, but it's a limitation in the perspective, and switching points of view is the lazy way of doing it. I had the same problem with my first story, which was in first person. I found myself wanting to tell the reader what was happening behind the back of the narrator, and I couldn't. I just had to accept it and work out other ways to do things, or just leave the ideas I had stillborn because I couldn't think of a way to make the narrator learn of them.

 

I don't think switching to third person for a short period would work, either, but I'm happy to be proven wrong.

 

How about this for a suggestion -- the narrator finds the diary of one of his friends, and either looks in it unasked, or is invited to read part of it? The narrator would then be reporting what he read, and could quote verbatim, effectively giving another point of view, but without leaving the first-person point of view. If you do this, don't forget to interject with the narrator's thoughts as they read about what had been going on.

 

When I write, (especially being new) I have a tendancy to want to keep my stories linear. All in a nice straight tidy line. For now, I think that is best because I don't have the skill set yet to move from past to present and then back again without destroying the readers mind.

 

I'm going to have to think about this and see what happens. I have been plagued by 'why!' with this story. To remove this portion would remove a lot of the 'how why and when' and I don't know if I could squeeze it back into dialogue in such a way that would make sense and still be able to answer the questions.

 

I could just scrap it and only work forward from where Khore wakes up. This may have to be a scene that hits the cutting room floor. The delete button works much faster than re-writing heheh! (though the third person conversion has already been done)

 

I've looked at it, and it could work just as well without the 'interlude'. I'm going to take a little time, and give this some thought, and see which I think reads the best and if it is truly necessary to have the alternate narrative.

 

We'll see what happens!

[Dusk]

DarkShadow wrote:

 

"When a new 'style' of painting, for instance, is brought into the public eye, if enough people like it, it becomes a new 'style'. People don't say, 'YOU CAN'T DO THAT! That's against the rules.'. Well some do, but generally the majority wins out, and a new 'style' is born."

 

That's exactly what happens in writing. The reason I write "labor" rather than "labour" is because, in the eighteenth century, Noah Webster said, "To heck with the extra U - that's a British affectation." I've no doubt that there were screams of protest at the time at this summary dismissal of traditional spelling. Yet, over time, his view prevailed.

 

In other cases, new styles do not become fashionable. Either way, innovators can expect strong protests. Painters are no more immune to this than writers are.

 

I think Matthew's post puts the matter very well: These rules (actually, guidelines) usually develop for reasonable causes. I say "usually" because a bunch of eighteenth-century grammarians decided that English should function like Latin, and we've been stuck with their descendants' whining ever since then. But for the most part, a guideline is there because a lot of writers in the past made a royal mess of things when not following the guidelines. This isn't to say that guidelines should never be broken. But if you're going to create an unconventional sonnet, it helps to know how to write a conventional sonnet first.

 

Marty wrote:

 

"(Taken from this site)."

 

It looks to me as though the person who wrote that has a background in computer science. I'm not surprised he's applying rules that commonly occur in mathematical writing to other types of writing.

 

There are loads of exceptions to the "rule," but generally speaking, one through nine are spelled out. After that point, journalists and novelists part company: most style manuals for journalists require that higher numbers be represented as digits, while most general style manuals encourage novelists to spell out all numbers. The only thing that's likely to really irritate a reader is not spelling out one through nine, because that's so rare in fiction - unless, of course, you're showing something like a temperature.

 

Concerning books that answer the "why?" for stylistic questions: I can recommend Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, which carefully traces the various disputes over proper grammatical use - with examples - rather than simply ordering the reader to follow a particular usage. While the editors do offer their recommendations at the end of each entry, the dictionary provides you with the information you need to make up your own mind.

[Lugh]

try these rules... I think they are better than most: Simple Writing Rules

 

These aren't bad either.

 

 

Personally I like to know what the rules are, that way I can break them, how ever it also helps to know what pisses off publishers/editors/agents.... those you don't want to break.

 

Lugh

[DarkShadow]

try these rules... I think they are better than most: Simple Writing Rules

 

These aren't bad either.

Personally I like to know what the rules are, that way I can break them, how ever it also helps to know what pisses off publishers/editors/agents.... those you don't want to break.

 

Lugh

 

Thank you Lugh! Those are great!