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Self-Publishing, Self-Marketing, and the Self


There is this overwhelmingly popular opinion that self-publishing, to some degree, isn't valid. It's what we do here on GA, of course, and putting out your work for free on the Internet for people to see seems to be acceptable and sometimes commended, but as soon as an author tries to make money from self-publishing their work—either by setting up a Patreon and asking for donations, or by publishing their work using services like Lulu and Amazon KDP and thus circumventing the traditional publishing process—a lot of people, and in particular other writers, become sceptical, sometimes bordering on hostile. There's this idea that people who self-publish just aren't good enough to be published by a major publishing house and, as such, don't deserve to get paid for the time and effort they put into writing.

But is it really about who's good enough? And who decides? Some arbitrary authority, like editors, agents, and publishing houses who are out to make money off of what you write? Is the question whether your work is good, or whether they think it will sell? How much bias and prejudice goes into that evaluation? I think a lot of publishers steer clear of queer fiction, thinking it won't sell as well, and a lot of what you do find published wasn't even written by queer authors. It's getting better, sure, but I still believe the cards to be stacked against us. 

Yesterday, an event called PitMad took place on Twitter. This is an event that happens four times a year, where authors scream into the void. You write a pitch for your book to fit into one tweet, tag it with #pitmad as well as additional relevant tags for genre and demographic, and wait for editors and agents to like your tweet. Then you send your manuscript to them, and by liking your tweet they have pledged to read it. This rarely leads anywhere, of course. As with everything else on the Internet, it's a lottery. Was your tweet visible enough? Where did Twitter's algorithm place you when they were scrolling through tweets? And it's hard to market yourself, to try and make your book sound interesting in less than 280 characters.

And without an agent, you're basically fucked. You don't get JK Rowling stories anymore. You can't just send your manuscript to a publisher. They won't even look at it. So there are more steps, more middlemen, more people who have to think your book is worthy of a chance, who have to think they can make money from it, before it's even seen by someone who can decide whether it deserves to be published. The market is oversaturated. It's harder than it used to be.

There are also indie publishers, but a lot of them are sketchy. I've heard stories from authors who were asked to pay to submit their manuscript, pay for their ISBN, which is not how publishing is done. Most serious indie publishers close their submissions periodically because they get so many. 

At least by self-publishing, you get it out there, you have the chance to make a little bit of money from it. Some self-published authors have later been picked up by major publishers or literary agents. Some have managed to make a modest living through self-publishing. And yeah, when anyone can do it, you end up with a lot of bad stuff. That's not to be denied. But that's no reason to discount the whole thing. 

I wonder if a lot of writers believe they're simply not good enough. Most writers of online fiction never even try to get something published, indie, self or otherwise. Maybe that's where the hostility towards or dismissal of self-publishing authors comes from. Why should they do it when I don't? And of course, self-publishing comes with a necessity for self-marketing, which can easily be seen as narcissistic. 

I'm taking the plunge. I'm self-publishing a book of twenty-four of my short stories. All of those stories are available to read here on GA, though I have polished, edited and, in some cases, rewritten parts of them. I have chosen to believe that I'm good enough. That my writing is good enough. And I'll be pushing my book hard on Twitter. I've been writing all my life and I'm taking this into my own hands. It won't make me rich. It may not really sell at all. And posting about it may not make me any friends. But I'm doing it anyway. It will be available on Kindle and as paperback through Amazon KDP, and also as an eBook through Draft2Digital, to be released on Apple Books and Barnes & Noble, among others. It will be out on the 30th of September. I choose to think I can do this.

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29 Comments


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Ron

Posted

Bravo!! ...and on my birthday, too.

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Mikiesboy

Posted

i hope it does sell, because you are a good writer ... unlike so much of the dross out there. But there are gems ... yours will be one.

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Thorn Wilde

Posted

9 minutes ago, Ron said:

Bravo!! ...and on my birthday, too.

Thank you! And Happy Birthday! :D 

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Thorn Wilde

Posted

9 minutes ago, Mikiesboy said:

i hope it does sell, because you are a good writer ... unlike so much of the dross out there. But there are gems ... yours will be one.

Thanks, tim. That means a lot. :) 

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Palantir

Posted

'You don't get JK Rowling stories anymore. You can't just send your manuscript to a publisher.'

I love the J K Rowling story as proof of the value of Self Publishing - evidently she received 17 rejections from Publishers for her first book because it had no hope of selling and it was only after she Self Published that it was recognised.

SO! Good for you, Thorn! Who knows what's ahead. :2thumbs:

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Wayne Gray

Posted

I think you're right about a great many things.

Some stuff that's out there is A W F U L.  I've seen it.  I purchased a self-published, gay erotica just to see what I was up against.  That did two things for me.  One, it made me think "Wow, okay, I can do this."  Two, "OMG, how could this guy put this out there?".  But I've also seen self-published work that's polished, well plotted, and mechanically sound.  It's a wild variety of quality out there.

It's wonderful you're taking the plunge.  Wonderful because you'll be one more example of well written stories done by a self-publisher.

Good luck, Thorn.  I wish you well on this quest.

"Have fun storming the castle."

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Thorn Wilde

Posted

25 minutes ago, Palantir said:

'You don't get JK Rowling stories anymore. You can't just send your manuscript to a publisher.'

I love the J K Rowling story as proof of the value of Self Publishing - evidently she received 17 rejections from Publishers for her first book because it had no hope of selling and it was only after she Self Published that it was recognised.

SO! Good for you, Thorn! Who knows what's ahead. :2thumbs:

Thank you! :) 

I don't think she self-published... I don't know how she could have back in the mid 90s. But yes, she got an awful lot of rejections. Goes to show how little these publishing houses truly understand what people want. 

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Thorn Wilde

Posted

10 minutes ago, Wayne Gray said:

I think you're right about a great many things.

Some stuff that's out there is A W F U L.  I've seen it.  I purchased a self-published, gay erotica just to see what I was up against.  That did two things for me.  One, it made me think "Wow, okay, I can do this."  Two, "OMG, how could this guy put this out there?".  But I've also seen self-published work that's polished, well plotted, and mechanically sound.  It's a wild variety of quality out there.

It's wonderful you're taking the plunge.  Wonderful because you'll be one more example of well written stories done by a self-publisher.

Good luck, Thorn.  I wish you well on this quest.

"Have fun storming the castle."

Hehe, thanks Wayne. Yeah, there's some bad stuff. Remember that awful book cover I showed you, from the guy who was mystified as to why he wasn't getting more pre-orders? Definitely a lot of shit, lol! But lots of good stuff, too. :) 

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Palantir

Posted

49 minutes ago, Thorn Wilde said:

Thank you! :) 

I don't think she self-published... I don't know how she could have back in the mid 90s. But yes, she got an awful lot of rejections. Goes to show how little these publishing houses truly understand what people want. 

Hmm! You're right, Thorn.

I did a Course on Self Publishing with our Council of Adult Education here in Australia and I accepted what the the lecturer said.  A few minutes on the Web shows otherwise.

Lol - one of my favourite stories about Self Publishing is now trashed.

  • Like 1
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Thorn Wilde

Posted

16 minutes ago, Palantir said:

Hmm! You're right, Thorn.

I did a Course on Self Publishing with our Council of Adult Education here in Australia and I accepted what the the lecturer said.  A few minutes on the Web shows otherwise.

Lol - one of my favourite stories about Self Publishing is now trashed.

I'll give you a new one: The Martian. Guy who wrote it self-published because friends asked him to. And here we are a few years later, with a bestseller and a movie starring Matt Damon.

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Defiance19

Posted

Best of luck, Thorn! Good for you! 

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Former Member

Posted

I used to manage a bookstore (I was a horrible manager, by the way, I couldn’t motivate my staff to do as I asked). This was back in the early Nineties and Amazon wasn’t a factor yet. There was an incredible amount of really badly written trash being published by established (very tiny) publishers.

Because of the location, I was allowed to order LGBTQ books from additional publishers by the corporation that owned the store. There was a title that sounded mildly interesting, so I ordered two copies. They accidentally sent me twelve copies instead. It was a horribly written story about a planet of Gay men. The mechanical technology they used to procreate broke down and they were facing a crisis with no new babies when they discovered a solution: one of the horny guys decided to masturbate using the fruit of one of the local plants. Oddly enough, the fruit was able to become ‘pregnant’ somehow. Crisis averted.

While there weren’t any misspellings that I can remember, it wasn’t very well plotted. If it was supposed to be erotic, it missed on that count too. The only good thing about it was that it wasn’t very long. It wasn’t even entertaining as a bad story.
 

Around the same time, I read the Lambda Literary Award and James Tiptoe Jr Award-winning book by Nicola Griffith, Ammonite. Coincidentally, it featured a somewhat similar premise. An embargoed planet is discovered to still have a population long after its female-only inhabitants should have died off. Nicola’s story has a very novel and creative explanation for how the residents are able to reproduce – and it doesn’t involve either a mechanical device or an unlikely vegetable impregnation coincidence.
 

This proved to me how much easier it was for some authors to get published than it should be. I would be willing to bet that the author of the badly written Gay story was white and middle- or upper-class. There was a certain entitlement that bled through the story.
 

Even more than when people picked up physical books in a physical bookstore, the visuals are incredibly important. If the very tiny image isn’t enticing enough, people aren’t going to click to see more about the book. The title is also important and can affect the clicks too. Once you get to the book’s page, the synopsis needs to capture attention without giving too much away – a very tricky balance.

Former Member

Posted

I think once you become a successful self-publisher, you’ll have at least a couple of GA authors either asking you to publish their work or asking you to give them advice on how to do it themselves.

Thorn Wilde

Posted

2 hours ago, droughtquake said:

I think once you become a successful self-publisher, you’ll have at least a couple of GA authors either asking you to publish their work or asking you to give them advice on how to do it themselves.

It would be cool if some GA authors got together and started their own publishing company. :) 

As for visuals, title and synopsis, I'll let you judge for yourself. It was hard finding a title that worked, but at least it makes sense, lol! (I made changes to the Kindle one that haven't quite updated yet, since I decided to add another story to the book...)

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Former Member

Posted (edited)

25 minutes ago, Thorn Wilde said:

It would be cool if some GA authors got together and started their own publishing company. :) 

Shhhhh! Administration might hear and steal your idea!

25 minutes ago, Thorn Wilde said:

As for visuals, title and synopsis, I'll let you judge for yourself. It was hard finding a title that worked, but at least it makes sense, lol! (I made changes to the Kindle one that haven't quite updated yet, since I decided to add another story to the book...)

Everybody’s a critic. It’s not how I would have done it, but I’m neither the target audience, nor the designer. It’s distinctive and the text is clear and easy to read even in tiny images. You can find similar images for your other books too. The big plus is that you’ve sized your name bigger than the title, so when you publish your next books, you can do the same to build a following that looks for your name!

I’d try to maintain some consistency between books, especially with your name. Build a brand. Get readers to seek out your work.
;–)

Edited by Former Member
Fae Briona

Posted

"There are also indie publishers, but a lot of them are sketchy."

In this state, a couple of years ago, there was a small "Christian" publishing company (mostly referred to as a 'vanity press' - which adds it's own stigma to self-publishing) that was sued by Xerox for $1.7 million for failure to pay for their equipment, which they later repossessed. Then, just a couple of years later, a large number of the people they, ahem, 'represented' sued them for "embezzlement, extortion and racketeering [1,400 music and text files to 1,100 authors and musicians]. Not sure it's ever been completely settled.

  • Wow 4
MrM

Posted

I salute you, Thorn! You are more than good enough to be published anywhere, but I do agree that there is a definite bent by 'Serious Publishers' to avoid Gay stories and authors at all costs. Many Gay and Allied authors take to including gay themes into there stories as central parts of their plots, but do not market them as 'Queer Fiction' as a category. Anne Rice, one of my muses, was a pioneer in getting Gay content published through her Vampire Chronicles. But, since her genre was 'horror' the publishers felt safe to push her Interview With A Vampire forward even with the edgy content. It was the 70s, though, and that was a much richer time for authors to find acceptance and have creative freedom than today. The world of publishing has become so corporatised that, just like music, if it doesn't fall within a very narrow band of 'Publishable' parameters, then they won't even bother with it. I think it was brilliant of Amazon to create a self-publishing system to give we 'underground' authors a chance!

~~~~~~
"And of course, self-publishing comes with a necessity for self-marketing, which can easily be seen as narcissistic."

I know that @Comicality self-publishes his stuff and has a whole blog, forum, and website universe dedicated to marketing his stories and supporting others in the Gay Teen Romance genre. It is one of the reasons his stuff is some of the best known out of our 'tribe' here. I am a big supporter of shameless self-promotion :P. We work hard on our stuff and if nobody else is going to put us out there to see then we have to do it our own damn selves!

Comsie has encouraged me to self-publish as he does. He thinks my stuff is marketable enough to draw paying readers. I am seriously considering it but, like you Thorn, I consider it a plunge in the dark. It will take courage. So, again, I applaud your courage and I shall make you another role model for success as a Gay Author! :heart:

This week I just completed one of my longest running stories and, after some editing, revisioning, and plot normalisation, I may make it my first self-published title. I believe in this story and have a feeling it might work as a good start. It has all the right flavour notes for a Gay Romance, for my tastes anyways. :)

  • Love 2
Thorn Wilde

Posted

4 hours ago, droughtquake said:

Everybody’s a critic. It’s not how I would have done it, but I’m neither the target audience, nor the designer. It’s distinctive and the text is clear and easy to read even in tiny images. You can find similar images for your other books too. The big plus is that you’ve sized your name bigger than the title, so when you publish your next books, you can do the same to build a following that looks for your name!

I dunno, you've read and (I believe) quite liked some of the stories that are in this collection, actually, so I'd say you are in the target audience. :P I wanted to do a simple design for the cover. I find that the bare-chested muscle boys and flowery fonts you get on most gay romance covers get tedious in the long run. It's been done. I guess those covers attract readers, but... I think it also turns some off. The cover image is a free stock photo from a site I visit a lot (all my banners for my stories are from free stock photo sites).

  • Love 1
Thorn Wilde

Posted

2 hours ago, Fae Briona said:

"There are also indie publishers, but a lot of them are sketchy."

In this state, a couple of years ago, there was a small "Christian" publishing company (mostly referred to as a 'vanity press' - which adds it's own stigma to self-publishing) that was sued by Xerox for $1.7 million for failure to pay for their equipment, which they later repossessed. Then, just a couple of years later, a large number of the people they, ahem, 'represented' sued them for "embezzlement, extortion and racketeering [1,400 music and text files to 1,100 authors and musicians]. Not sure it's ever been completely settled.

Yeah, there's a lot of shady stuff out there. I feel bad for those authors and musicians...

  • Love 1
Thorn Wilde

Posted

20 minutes ago, MrM said:

I salute you, Thorn! You are more than good enough to be published anywhere, but I do agree that there is a definite bent by 'Serious Publishers' to avoid Gay stories and authors at all costs. Many Gay and Allied authors take to including gay themes into there stories as central parts of their plots, but do not market them as 'Queer Fiction' as a category. Anne Rice, one of my muses, was a pioneer in getting Gay content published through her Vampire Chronicles. But, since her genre was 'horror' the publishers felt safe to push her Interview With A Vampire forward even with the edgy content. It was the 70s, though, and that was a much richer time for authors to find acceptance and have creative freedom than today. The world of publishing has become so corporatised that, just like music, if it doesn't fall within a very narrow band of 'Publishable' parameters, then they won't even bother with it. I think it was brilliant of Amazon to create a self-publishing system to give we 'underground' authors a chance!

~~~~~~
"And of course, self-publishing comes with a necessity for self-marketing, which can easily be seen as narcissistic."

I know that @Comicality self-publishes his stuff and has a whole blog, forum, and website universe dedicated to marketing his stories and supporting others in the Gay Teen Romance genre. It is one of the reasons his stuff is some of the best known out of our 'tribe' here. I am a big supporter of shameless self-promotion :P. We work hard on our stuff and if nobody else is going to put us out there to see then we have to do it our own damn selves!

Comsie has encouraged me to self-publish as he does. He thinks my stuff is marketable enough to draw paying readers. I am seriously considering it but, like you Thorn, I consider it a plunge in the dark. It will take courage. So, again, I applaud your courage and I shall make you another role model for success as a Gay Author! :heart:

This week I just completed one of my longest running stories and, after some editing, revisioning, and plot normalisation, I may make it my first self-published title. I believe in this story and have a feeling it might work as a good start. It has all the right flavour notes for a Gay Romance, for my tastes anyways. :)

Go for it! I always try to think, if I like it, chances are others will too. That's why I'm doing this. That's why I dare put stuff out there in the first place. I like the stories I write. If you like yours, you should get it out there. :) 

  • Love 2
Former Member

Posted

1 hour ago, MrM said:

…there is a definite bent by 'Serious Publishers' to avoid Gay stories and authors at all costs.

There is an avoidance of content by and for women, people of color, LGBTQs, and others who are not middle- or upper-class, white, Protestant, males. Those are the same faces you see when you look at most US corporate boards (with only token representation of others that doesn’t match the population). Those are usually the faces of the so-called experts interviewed on US network TV (except PBS). It’s what they are most comfortable with and what they feel is most profitable – and that’s their sole motivation.

Former Member

Posted

2 hours ago, Fae Briona said:

In this state, a couple of years ago, there was a small "Christian" publishing company (mostly referred to as a 'vanity press' - which adds it's own stigma to self-publishing) that was sued by Xerox for $1.7 million for failure to pay for their equipment, which they later repossessed. Then, just a couple of years later, a large number of the people they, ahem, 'represented' sued them for "embezzlement, extortion and racketeering [1,400 music and text files to 1,100 authors and musicians]. Not sure it's ever been completely settled.

There are ‘believers’ who are naïve enough to trust any person or organization that cloaks itself as religious. Entire religions are based on this deception. Organizations are given wide latitude to practice discriminatory and anti-competitive behavior by the US justice system.

Former Member

Posted

1 hour ago, Thorn Wilde said:

dunno, you've read and (I believe) quite liked some of the stories that are in this collection, actually, so I'd say you are in the target audience. :P

I’m a really bad friend. I think I’ve only read your stories when they’ve done those secret author theme contests. None of the Jacob & Marcus Tales seem familiar (based on titles and synopsis). I avoid poetry and fan-fiction. But you’re right, I have enjoyed the stories I’ve read. This suggests I really should read more of your work!  ;–)

Thorn Wilde

Posted

7 hours ago, droughtquake said:

I’m a really bad friend. I think I’ve only read your stories when they’ve done those secret author theme contests. None of the Jacob & Marcus Tales seem familiar (based on titles and synopsis). I avoid poetry and fan-fiction. But you’re right, I have enjoyed the stories I’ve read. This suggests I really should read more of your work!  ;–)

Hehe, maybe you should. :P I appreciated your review of Black & Blue, anyway. :) 

  • Love 1
Comicality

Posted

"There is this overwhelmingly popular opinion that self-publishing, to some degree, isn't valid. It's what we do here on GA, of course, and putting out your work for free on the Internet for people to see seems to be acceptable and sometimes commended, but as soon as an author tries to make money from self-publishing their work—either by setting up a Patreon and asking for donations, or by publishing their work using services like Lulu and Amazon KDP and thus circumventing the traditional publishing process—a lot of people, and in particular other writers, become sceptical, sometimes bordering on hostile. There's this idea that people who self-publish just aren't good enough to be published by a major publishing house and, as such, don't deserve to get paid for the time and effort they put into writing."

 

Very true, indeed, Thorn. But I agree with you 100%. Don't ever let that elite opinion discourage you. I've read stories online that are better than most of the stuff you can buy in the stores. I've heard artists and indie band albums that are better than anything you can hear on the radio. And I've seen three minute clips on youtube that are better than half of the stuff on TV. So definitely do it! Every actor, filmmaker, singer, author, etc...started off doing exactly the same thing. The Beatles, Michael Jackson, James Brown, Stephen King, Stephen Spielberg...all had to take a leap of faith and put their heart out there. Why not you? You know? :)

I worked in a music store for many years, and I learned that if any artist can build a fanbase on their own, WITHOUT studio help, and drop that on their table...they'll come seek you out. And by then, you'll be able to decide if you even need them or not. 

So, yeah. Do it! And if you ever need any help promoting your stuff, drop me an email. I'll help out however I can.

Let's put the power back in the hands of the artists, right? :) 

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