Would you have sex with someone who was HIV positive?

[YaP]

I would. Well, given that there is a relationship (i dont have random sex with strangers).

And as trust and honesty is a requirement for that (at least in my opinion), i would assume i know it up front. I definitely would like to know, if i get into a serious relationship with someone, but i would suppose thats a given (trust/honesty etc...). If I would be HIV+ I would definitely tell before I get intimate, and i would expect the same. If i want to share my life with somebody, thats important information for the other, as it does have an impact on our life together (and, of course, the sex has to be "safe"), so i think its just fair to let the other one know (or unfair not to do that).

[Tristan Thinks]

............No it doesn't, perhaps of what you said here;

 

QUOTE (Tristan Jaimes @ February 27 2008, 10:40 AM) I don't care what someone's HIV status is and I'd think it kind of daft to be told it up front, because people's health issues are personal - I wouldn't expect to be told someone has cancer, say, or is diabetic, or a leper, unless they wanted to share.

Maybe I should clarify. I wouldn't expect to be told when we met or whilst we dated, but I would hope by the time we got to the point where we were discussing having a sexual relationship the trust and communication would mean it'd be natural for him to tell me and know I wouldn't react badly to the information.

 

and here;

 

I have an ex boyfriend who is now 23. We were dating when he was 18. I found out quite by chance he is HIV positive when he was 20. If it weren't for the fact he can't help cheating on his partners, I'd have no problem being in a relationship with him and having sex.

I would have a serious problem with someone I planned to be intimate with and they neglected to be honest enough with me to inform me of that they carried a life threatening disease they could pass on to me.

When we were dating he was free of infection. We both had tests. He contracted the infection quite a while after we split up because of his uncontrollable urge to have sex with random guys and rent himself out - all a result of his abused childhood and being thrown from foster home to care home and back again between ages 5 and 17 and experiencing a very turbulent and disruptive adolescence that made him adopt an attitude of self-destruction.

 

That said, if he'd told me he was HIV positive whilst we were dating, or his test had come back positive, it wouldn't have changed my feelings or attitude about him or his condition.

[Benji]

Maybe I should clarify. I wouldn't expect to be told when we met or whilst we dated, but I would hope by the time we got to the point where we were discussing having a sexual relationship the trust and communication would mean it'd be natural for him to tell me and know I wouldn't react badly to the information.

 

 

When we were dating he was free of infection. We both had tests. He contracted the infection quite a while after we split up from his uncontrollable urge to have sex with random guys and rent himself out - all a result of his abused childhood and being thrown from foster home to care home and back again between ages 5 and 17 and experiencing a very turbulent and disruptive adolescent that made him adopt an attitude of self-destruction.

 

That said, if he'd told me he was HIV positive whilst we were dating, or his test had come back positive, it wouldn't have changed my feelings or attitude about him or his condition.

 

 

....I'm glad you clarified that, good luck!

Edited February 27, 2008 by Benji

[AFriendlyFace]

Most of what I had in mind to say about your response to mine I've actually already said via our PM discussion, however, I'll add a few things:

I came to realise that in the great scheme of things, that although I enjoy my life to the full, I'm not important. I lost the arrogance of thinking it was vital to preserve my life and lifestyle at all costs. Since then I've not been concerned with doing so-called risky things if I choose to. That doesn't mean I take reckless risks - I always consider things very carefully - but it does mean I discount my own infinite well-being in some circumstances.

You really ought to check out this thread: The Disturbing Trend. It took place shortly before you joined. It's actually by far my favourite thread of the year. I'd be interested to hear your perspective and whether than reiterate much of what I said there, I'll simply point people in that direction if they want to know my views on the relative importance of life.

Much of my attitude can be attributed to a farm upbringing where being in touch with the realities of the fragility of life in all its forms is more in your face. That has been lost by 'civilised' societies now they are so predominantly urban.

Actually, while it would be inaccurate to say I "grew up on a farm", I did spend a great deal of my childhood and adolescence on one and it shaped my view points as well.

I've found over time that my attitude means I appreciate every aspect of life, myself, my friends and people around me all the more. The simplest and most trivial things astound and amaze me and every day I think about how privileged I am to live such a rich and fulfilling life.

Good for you

 

As I said at the beginning of my first post on this, it would be in the context of a loving relationship for me, and if my partner chose not to tell me his HIV status was positive when we got together it wouldn't bother me one bit.

As I said to you, I think people do have a responsibility to share this (and other related sexual history information) with their potential sex partners. I respect that you yourself might not absolutely require the information, and if that's the case then I wouldn't fault one of your partners who knew that and chose not to tell you. However, I think it's best to operate under the assumption that it is information your partner should have to help them make an informed decision.

I fall in love with a person's spirit and soul, how they treat other people and deal with themselves, and how they return my love. I don't fall in love with their health status.

That's commendable, but I think a very crucial aspect of how they deal with themselves and other people is how open and honest they would be with such a disclosure.

I can't imagine how callous it must feel to those people who are HIV positive, maybe unsure of themselves, who feel they are a part of a caring 'community' of other gay people, and then suddenly discover these strident reactions to their condition. I know it must be something of a kick in the teeth, and it's something I wouldn't wish anyone to have to experience.

I fully agree here!

 

I *hate* how people make snap judgements of others and their opinions based on it [one's age]. I prefer to work purely on the basis of what someone says, and how they conduct themselves.

I whole-heartedly and fully agree with you. There's only one routine question which annoys me as much as "how old are you?"...but I shan't go into that one right now. In any case I cringe when someone asks me that and I have since I was about 10 and honestly I doubt I'll ever cease to be irritated by that question.

 

-Kevin

Edited February 27, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[Tristan Thinks]

You really ought to check out this thread: The Disturbing Trend. It took place shortly before you joined. It's actually by far my favourite thread of the year. I'd be interested to hear your perspective and whether than reiterate much of what I said there, I'll simply point people in that direction if they want to know my views on the relative importance of life.

Sheesh! Some people have far too much time on their hands if they spend it coming up with such ridiculous labels and compartmentalisations (ooo - long word!) about things! I worry far more about feeding the world. This is the point where I'm swinging a piece of 4x3 timber around to knock some sense into their heads

 

Folks, when you find these kind of people, send them out to the fields to do some hard work!

 

Having skimmed some of that thread so as to avoid boiling over (I do need to sleep tonight), I spotted a few things I'd agree with:

 

First, Graeme said:

I'm not sure I'll vote because I've never tried to "define" my moral code.

And then jamessavik said:

I think my philosophy can best be summed up as a pragmatist.

My moral code is the way I live and deal with others. My philosophy is to make as many people smile and feel good about themselves as I can.

 

That's commendable, but I think a very crucial aspect of how they deal with themselves and other people is how open and honest they would be with such a disclosure.

There's an unspoken inferrence in what you've written that, so far as I recall, hasn't been proposed. The inferrence is that in some way the HIV positive partner might try to hide their status. That would be an entirely separate discussion about communication, honesty, and trust.

 

I've taken it that this thread's question is about whether the other person would want to know, which inferred to me that the assumption was the HIV positive partner would be willing to tell, and the issue being debating was more a case of *when* the partner would prefer to hear about it, not *if*.

 

There's only one routine question which annoys me as much as "how old are you?"...but I shan't go into that one right now. In any case I cringe when someone asks me that and I have since I was about 10 and honestly I doubt I'll ever cease to be irritated by that question.

Hey Kevin, what do your parents do?

[Graeme]

Hey Kevin, what do your parents do?

LOL -- nice try. I seem to recall seeing Kevin mention what the other question was, but I can't remember where or what it was. I'm pretty sure that's not it, though

[Tristan Thinks]

LOL -- nice try. I seem to recall seeing Kevin mention what the other question was, but I can't remember where or what it was. I'm pretty sure that's not it, though

Well, I wasn't going to ask him the *other* obvious question... it'd be considered 'too racy' for the delicate ears around here

 

Hey Kevin, Can I ask you a question?

[Menzoberranzen]

I whole-heartedly and fully agree with you. There's only one routine question which annoys me as much as "how old are you?"...but I shan't go into that one right now. In any case I cringe when someone asks me that and I have since I was about 10 and honestly I doubt I'll ever cease to be irritated by that question.

 

-Kevin

I avoid said question at all costs. Well, not so much anymore, but I used to. I was 15 when I went to university, and people instantly have preconceptions about what a 15 year old should act like, when in truth I was far more mature than most of the people in my year. My longest relationship was when I was 16/17 and he was 22/23, and nobody would have put us more than a year apart, but whenever people found out how young I was, they always had something to say about it. It's less important now, but I'm still in a milieu where the vast majority of my colleagues and friends are several years older than me.

 

Menzo (who's shamelessly off topic, but I started the topic so hah)

[wildone]

I whole-heartedly and fully agree with you. There's only one routine question which annoys me as much as "how old are you?"...but I shan't go into that one right now. In any case I cringe when someone asks me that and I have since I was about 10 and honestly I doubt I'll ever cease to be irritated by that question.

 

-Kevin

Dang Kevin, this is the first time I've seen a 'cliffhanger' in a forum . I wonder how long we will have to wait for the answer to it?

 

Guys, if I can interject here, I love that maybe my post has stirred up some emotion, as I think we all need to express how we really feel on what I consider a very important subject.

 

I understand where both Tristan and Kevin are coming from. I agree with a lot of what each of you said, and maybe I don't agree with some of the things said either. I also believe that we need to question each others so we can continue on the discussion, and bring in others opinions when we have the clarification of those questions.

 

Here's maybe even a bit of precursor to my previous post.

 

I still remember the first day that I encountered someone who was HIV positive. I had detained a customer for shoplifting in my store. I still recall how thin, and pale, and dejected the guy looked. I took him to a back office where I had to read him his constitutional rights (yes, we have to do that here in Canada too). When I asked him if he wanted to call a lawyer, he said yes. Luckily one of our plain clothed loss prevention officers had just arrived in the store, so I explained to him I had caught him leaving the store with unpaid merchandise, had called the police and read him his rights, and now he wanted to call his lawyer. Since I had never had anyone make this request, I asked the LPO what to do.

 

He took over and first cautioned him (abbreviated reading of rights of a secondary person arriving) and told him he had to search him before he could use the phone. The guy agreed and when he was asked to empty his pockets, he pulled out several needles and pieces of tin foil and toilet paper. The LPO asked him to show him his forearms, and they were covered with track marks. He then asked him if he was HIV positive and the guy could barely nod his head.

 

I bolted. It was probably one of the most scariest things in my life that I had heard or seen. I ran into the washroom and started scrubbing my hands with soap and recalling everywhere I had touched him, how close was I to him, did he breath on me????? Probably after scrubbing for fifteen minutes, and contemplating my own demise, I came out and saw the LPO and police officer escorting him out handcuffed and everyone wearing rubber gloves. I even went so far as to call my doctors office to see if I could be tested.

 

When I actually recalled where I had actually touched him, it was only on the upper arm which was covered with a shirt and coat.

 

Looking back at this reaction now, I know I was scared for my life. It was my first encounter with a deadly disease that really only the media had taught me anything about. I would imagine many people would still react the same way if they only had the partial information that I had.

 

After a visit with my doctor, and his assurance that I didn't need any testing, I began to calm down. My doctor actually started to explaining the disease to me from a medical point of view. He also encouraged me to do research myself on it, as I would most likely encounter more people who are affected by the disease in the future.

 

So I did. Anything to do with HIV/AIDs that I could find, I read. I would read a story in the newspaper and actually try to pick apart the non factual statements in it. I will even say I became comfortable with the knowledge I had gained.

 

So how did I react when I heard the bf tell me he was HIV positive?

 

I started asking questions. Ones like how long? Are you receiving treatment? Are you in a infectious cycle (involves t cell counts)? How did you get it?

 

He answered everything honestly and openly. He is still surprised that I didn't bolt. But when I started asking questions, he knew that if there was a chance, he had to be honest.

 

The point being....learn about the disease, but also learn about the person.

 

Dang, I've really got to cut down the lengths of my posts.

 

Steve

[AFriendlyFace]

LOL -- nice try. I seem to recall seeing Kevin mention what the other question was, but I can't remember where or what it was. I'm pretty sure that's not it, though

LOL, no that's not it, and it was in my blog if you guys really want to go searching.

 

Hey Kevin, Can I ask you a question?

LOL, if it's forum appropriate of course

 

The point being....learn about the disease, but also learn about the person.

 

Dang, I've really got to cut down the lengths of my posts.

 

Steve

That's good advice and a good story

 

Don't worry about the length of your posts, the content is what matters

[Tristan Thinks]

So, can we get back on topic?

 

Would you have sex with someone who was HIV positive?

 

I think there are two main strands to this question which might ellicit different answers:

• In a loving relationship
• A casual partner - not a relationship

Let's also assume that the partner has informed you of their HIV positive status before any sexual contact has begun.

 

For #1 I can say a definite YES

 

For #2 I think it'd have to depend on the circumstances: where I thought the encounter might lead, how horny I was, how drunk/wasted I was, if I wanted to piss people off.

It's difficult for me to be sure since casual sex is something I avoid because it puts me in an emotional funk - my sex is always about celebrating my love for the partner.

[AFriendlyFace]

So, can we get back on topic?

 

Would you have sex with someone who was HIV positive?

 

I think there are two main strands to this question which might ellicit different answers:

• In a loving relationship
• A casual partner - not a relationship

Let's also assume that the partner has informed you of their HIV positive status before any sexual contact has begun.

2 is a no

 

1 is...a maybe I guess. I don't think I could be sure either way unless I was in the situation.

[NickolasJames8]

**Put's on flame resistant suit**

 

 

Without trying to sound shallow, my answer is heck no. I would hope that if someone loved me, and they were HIV positive, they'd try to persuade me not to have sex with them, and flat out refuse to do it. Feelings are a powerful thing, and I can imagine how painful it would be to love someone who's HIV positive, but if we ever hope to stop the spread of this disease, we have to let our heads guide our choices, not our hearts

[TheUnwanted]

It sad folk think this be a black an white answer. Like you don

[JamesSavik]

It sad folk think this be a black an white answer. Like you don

[Drewbie]

Good point Rossy

 

Unfortunately we have to tell our status, but we need to be safe.

[Razor]

You really ought to check out this thread: The Disturbing Trend. It took place shortly before you joined. It's actually by far my favourite thread of the year. I'd be interested to hear your perspective and whether than reiterate much of what I said there, I'll simply point people in that direction if they want to know my views on the relative importance of life.

-Kevin

 

WOOT! I win! I was interesting! Go me!!!!!

 

And that trend is STILL continuing, fyi. It's getting worse and worse and worse, and every time I turn around I want to hit people so much. What the hell is wrong with you that you're absolutely unable to produce any empathy? Did your mama never tell you to think about how you'd feel if it happened to you?! Jeez, people are just such... unbearable jackasses sometimes.

 

Now, empathy does have its limits, like in this thread. Dude, no, never, not under any circumstances that I can imagine would I ever have sex with someone knowing they are HIV positive.

 

Regardless of what anyone says, there is no cure, and it is a death sentence. Today it's just a prolonged death sentence. It's not a happy regiment of therapy, and several people have severe problems tolerating the medication they have to take daily. In the words of one woman...

 

"I wake up in the morning, and I take a pill. Then I smoke a joint. Then I take another pill, and then I smoke another joint. That's how I spend my mornings every day, and it's the only way I don't spend the rest of the day vomiting."

 

I don't want to have to live like that, sorry. I feel for anyone who is positive, but I will not put myself in the position to become positive as well. And I think that if I were positive, I would not be able to put others in that position. If you really love someone and you're HIV positive, then you would do what's best for the person you love, which is not have sex with them. I'm sorry, but I don't see any other possible best outcome to aim for than to keep the people you love safe. If it hurts their feelings, big deal; they'll still be alive and well for a long time to get over it.

[Tiger]

Jamie, I agree whole-heartedly. I could never risk my life like that. Condoms break, and then it starts. I will not allow that to happen to me. I have stated emphatically that if anyone infects me with HIV, there will be a murder/suicide. I am not one to kill, but that would drive me over the edge. Besides, I figure I'm just speeding up the process at that point. I know I am being overly blunt here, but that is how I feel about the matter.

[GaryK]

Jamie, in your own inimitable way you have made several good points that I agree with including the topic of this thread.

[AFriendlyFace]

Well I know I ultimately went with 'no' on this, and I can definitely respect where others are coming from, but I think I'm of a more moderate view than many of the sentiments recently expressed.

 

First of all, unless it's some sort of weird situation where your committed partner was cheating on you and you didn't know, or maybe a person knowingly trying to infect others I really don't think it's right to blame the other person. Maybe they didn't know about their status? Maybe you had safe sex but the condom did break or something. That's scary of course and it's understandable that you're going to be pretty upset, but it's really not that person's fault. When you make the decision to have sex with someone the best you can hope for is having safe sex with someone who honestly disclosures their status to the best of their knowledge. If something freaky happens and goes wrong, I don't think it's right to blame that person. Similarly, while I'm very VERY opposed to people having unsafe sex, under any circumstances but especially with someone whom they're not very serious with, have been with for awhile, and have been tested with, but IF you make the decision to have unsafe sex then I think you're kinda throwing away your right to blame someone else if you contract anything. Of course we all make mistakes, and it sucks if the one time you make that mistake you have to pay for the consequences, but at least half the burden IS on you at that point. What I'm basically saying is that failing extreme situations like rape, malicious intent from your partner, or horrible betrayal, I think people are accountable for their decisions, and while I hope that if they do make mistakes or errors in judgment, that it still works out for them anyway, but if it doesn't I don't think they can go around blaming other people for it.

 

Also, yes, HIV and AIDs suck and the treatment and ultimate prognosis is certainly no cakewalk, but for most people who take care of themselves and stick to their meds they can have YEARS of manageable time left. I don't say this at all to imply that it isn't a horrible, debilitating disease, or to mislead people into thinking that they shouldn't be careful because they can still survive for awhile with it, but I am saying there's no point in completely giving up on life if it happens. There are all sorts of horrible, debilitating diseases out there, there are all sorts of meds with terrible side effects, but the people on them are coping, even having happy moments. If I contracted HIV I'd like to think I wouldn't just lay down and wait to die (or jump off of something to speed it along), I'd like to think that after grieving for awhile I'd get to the point where I could accept my situation, get on a proper medical, diet, and exercise regimen, and go on with my life as well as possible, even despite the painful, unpleasant side effects. I'd like to think that I could still have many happy times with my friends and family, that I could still make a positive difference in the world, and that I could maybe even set a good example for other people dealing with the same situation.

 

Finally, while I don't mean to marginalize the risks at all safer sex can make a lot of difference. As I said, I would be unlikely to get involved with someone with HIV (which in many ways I feel very guilty about), but if under some special circumstances it happened there are still things you can do. If you're really worried about (and I would be personally), maybe you could use TWO condoms, not do any high risk behaviours, and avoid internal ejaculation, it might not remove all the risk, but if it were someone you really loved it might bring the risk level down to a manageable state worth considering.

 

-Kevin

[Tiger]

Kevin, I do happen to think there are some situations in which sex without condoms is acceptable. However, those are a very slim minority. It requires a level of honesty, commitment, and trust that many are unfortunately uncapable of in today's society. Thus, people often risk their lives by engaging in unsafe sex with someone they trust. I will not mention names, but one of our members was in a situation where he narrowly escaped being diagnosed with HIV. His former partner was HIV+. Fortunately, the guy who dodged the bullet was strictly top. Otherwise, he definitely would have been infected. I can say that the member was not me.

[AFriendlyFace]

Kevin, I do happen to think there are some situations in which sex without condoms is acceptable. However, those are a very slim minority. It requires a level of honesty, commitment, and trust that many are unfortunately uncapable of in today's society.

Hmmm, I'm not sure the best way to respond to this. I will say that that's why I included the following qualifying conditions in my post:

 

Similarly, while I'm very VERY opposed to people having unsafe sex, under any circumstances but especially with someone whom they're not very serious with, have been with for awhile, and have been tested with

In other words I'm more or less not going to object at all (not that it's really any of my business in the first place). If the couple is:

 

-"Married" or in a relationship that's more or less comparable to marriage in terms of seriousness and durability.

-Has most definitely been completely monogamous for a long time (not all married people are/have been)

-Not going to cheat at all

-Have both been tested

 

Under those circumstances would I personally have unprotected sex? Possibly/probably, but I would have to really trust the guy, which presumably I would if all the above criteria were met. On the other hand condomless sex isn't something I particularly yearn to have anyway.

 

The problem is though:

 

Thus, people often risk their lives by engaging in unsafe sex with someone they trust. I will not mention names, but one of our members was in a situation where he narrowly escaped being diagnosed with HIV. His former partner was HIV+. Fortunately, the guy who dodged the bullet was strictly top. Otherwise, he definitely would have been infected. I can say that the member was not me.

Exactly. I'm sure the majority of people in a very serious, committed relationship do trust the other person completely or almost completely, but look what does happen sometimes.

 

It's a tough situation, but trusting someone in this particular way is not something I intend to do quickly or easily.

 

 

Also, just for clarification at this point, just in case someone might read the above post and be unaware of the facts:

 

Tops can and do contract HIV. The risk is higher for the bottom, but it is also very real and present for the top as well.

 

 

 

Take care all,

Kevin

Edited June 8, 2008 by AFriendlyFace

[Razor]

If you're really worried about (and I would be personally), maybe you could use TWO condoms, not do any high risk behaviours, and avoid internal ejaculation, it might not remove all the risk, but if it were someone you really loved it might bring the risk level down to a manageable state worth considering.

 

-Kevin

 

I assume that this isn't what you meant, but using two condoms at the same time is a very, very bad idea. Specifically, one man wearing two condoms at once is a bad idea. Seems like not a lot of people know that doing that greatly increases the risk of breakage because of the friction produced between the two layers of latex. Latex likes to stick, and latex really likes to stick to latex, so that creates a perfect situation for a tear in the condoms.

 

End result is just that you're at higher risk for contracting diseases/impregnating a girl (though I guess the latter's sorta outta place here).

[Bandage]

I assume that this isn't what you meant, but using two condoms at the same time is a very, very bad idea. Specifically, one man wearing two condoms at once is a bad idea. Seems like not a lot of people know that doing that greatly increases the risk of breakage because of the friction produced between the two layers of latex. Latex likes to stick, and latex really likes to stick to latex, so that creates a perfect situation for a tear in the condoms.

 

End result is just that you're at higher risk for contracting diseases/impregnating a girl (though I guess the latter's sorta outta place here).

I didn't know that yet

Glad you shared this info with us, Razor!

Anyway, I wouldn't even know how to put on 2 at the same time Seems like a mighty struggle to me!

[AFriendlyFace]

I assume that this isn't what you meant, but using two condoms at the same time is a very, very bad idea. Specifically, one man wearing two condoms at once is a bad idea. Seems like not a lot of people know that doing that greatly increases the risk of breakage because of the friction produced between the two layers of latex. Latex likes to stick, and latex really likes to stick to latex, so that creates a perfect situation for a tear in the condoms.

 

End result is just that you're at higher risk for contracting diseases/impregnating a girl (though I guess the latter's sorta outta place here).

I actually didn't know that either, Jamie, thank you