Discussion topic: What constitutes a cliffhanger?

[C James]

Given all the comments regarding cliffhangers around here, I thou8ght it might be good to actually discuss what they are.

 

 

Per Wikipedia's detailed article, we have;

 

A cliffhanger or cliffhanger ending is a plot device in fiction which features a main character in a precarious or difficult dilemma, or confronted with a shocking revelation. A cliffhanger is hoped to ensure the audience will return to see how the characters resolve the dilemma.

 

The phrase is believed to come from the end-of-episode situation in adventure silent films of the early 1900s days, with the protagonist literally left hanging from the edge of a cliff, although the oldest usage the Oxford English Dictionary has is from 1937. Some serials end with the caveat "To be continued", or "The End?" In television series, the following episode usually begins with a recap (a.k.a. "previously").

 

Further, they mention;

The idea of ending a tale at a point where the audience is left in suspense as to its conclusion (which is then given at another time) may have been a staple part of storytelling for almost as long as the idea of stories have existed. It is a central theme and framing device of the collection of stories known as the One Thousand and One Nights, wherein the queen Scheherazade, who is facing a morning execution on the orders of her husband King Shahryar, devises the solution of telling him a story but leaving it at a cliffhanger, thus forcing the king to postpone her execution in order to hear the rest of the tale.

 

Here's a TV industry page, explaining types of cliffhanger, and also giving a very comprehensive list of famous ones from TV.

 

Okay, now I've read up on this subject, I think I see what it means... A cliffhanger seems to involve a long length of time (say, between the end of one season and the begging of another) and this is usually measured in months. This would seem to preculde anything weekly being a cliffhanger, no?

 

Also, it seems to indicate, quite clearly, that the cliffhanger occurs at the very end of the chapter or show.

 

A third point is that the term generally means some sudden, unresolved dire peril (such as dangling off a cliff) rather than an ongoing sustained risk (for example, the TV series MASH was set in a warzone in the Korean war, and war is dangerous, but the setting itself did not constitute an ongoing cliffhanger).

 

Seems to me that the term "Cliffhanger" is being misused around these parts?

 

Please discuss.

[Benji]

Given all the comments regarding cliffhangers around here, I thou8ght it might be good to actually discuss what they are.

 

 

Per Wikipedia's detailed article, we have;

 

 

 

Further, they mention;

 

 

Here's a TV industry page, explaining types of cliffhanger, and also giving a very comprehensive list of famous ones from TV.

 

Okay, now I've read up on this subject, I think I see what it means... A cliffhanger seems to involve a long length of time (say, between the end of one season and the begging of another) and this is usually measured in months. This would seem to preculde anything weekly being a cliffhanger, no?

 

Also, it seems to indicate, quite clearly, that the cliffhanger occurs at the very end of the chapter or show.

 

A third point is that the term generally means some sudden, unresolved dire peril (such as dangling off a cliff) rather than an ongoing sustained risk (for example, the TV series MASH was set in a warzone in the Korean war, and war is dangerous, but the setting itself did not constitute an ongoing cliffhanger).

 

Seems to me that the term "Cliffhanger" is being misused around these parts?

 

Please discuss.

 

.............Like where I read in one chapter of a novel where a small jet was going to get hit by missiles with an inexperienced person trying to land the plane and the chapter ends just as the missiles are fired> Yep, definably a cliffhanger

Edited May 9, 2009 by Benji

[DragonFire]

I've never written a cliffhanger in my life.......well, with the exception of the last 3 chapters!

 

To be honest, as a reader I love them, it keeps you wanting more. As a writer, I want to keep the readers hooked.

As to what constitutes as a cliffhanger, I feel it's a dramatic or unexpected end to a chapter. Yeah, you create certain mystery in a chapter, but nothing beats a dramatic end.

CJ is the king of cliffhangers, long may it continue.

[MikeL]

Given all the comments regarding cliffhangers around here, I thou8ght it might be good to actually discuss what they are.

 

Okay, now I've read up on this subject, I think I see what it means... A cliffhanger seems to involve a long length of time (say, between the end of one season and the begging of another) and this is usually measured in months. This would seem to preculde anything weekly being a cliffhanger, no?

 

Also, it seems to indicate, quite clearly, that the cliffhanger occurs at the very end of the chapter or show.

 

A third point is that the term generally means some sudden, unresolved dire peril (such as dangling off a cliff) rather than an ongoing sustained risk (for example, the TV series MASH was set in a warzone in the Korean war, and war is dangerous, but the setting itself did not constitute an ongoing cliffhanger).

 

Seems to me that the term "Cliffhanger" is being misused around these parts?

 

Please discuss.

OK, I'll discuss. We amphibians have a keen sense of what constitutes a cliffhanger. Actually they are easy to spot...they always seem to smell of goat.

 

First, M*A*S*H. There were no cliffhangers in M*A*S*H. As horrible as the Korean War was, it really had nothing to do with the TV comedy. It was merely the background wherein a dysfunctional field hospital played host to an ensemble of goofball surgeons and nurses...all for laughs.

 

Cliffhangers may occur in literature or motion pictures at any interval. A weekly chapter release does not eliminate the presence of a cliffhanger merely because of the short wait for the next installment. When I was a kid, all the kids went to the Saturday afternoon movies at a neighborhood theater. [Admission was 12 cents; you saw six cartoons, a newsreel (the Korean War was the big news), two feature movies (at least one was a western), and a serial thriller. If you liked the show you could stay and watch it again free of charge.] My favorite serial was The Black Coin. The serial had a new episode each week and each episode ended with a cliffhanger.

 

 

There are varying degrees of cliffhangers found in literature and cinema. Most authors of serially-released stories use them to keep the interest of the reader. Rather than arguing endlessly about what constitiutes a cliffhanger or whether the latest chapter contains (or end with) one, the author should, as I suggested earlier, just suck it up and get on with writing the next chapter so that the latest cliffhanger, if any, can be resolved.

 

Thanks, Cliff, for the opportunity to comment on this burning issue.

[C James]

.............Like where I read in one chapter of a novel where a small jet was going to get hit by missiles with an inexperienced person trying to land the plane and the chapter ends just as the missiles are fired> Yep, definably a cliffhanger

 

Aww, but, that was just a few little difficulties during a trip. We've all had problems when traveling by air; lost luggage, delayed flights, etc. So, they had a few extra, what with the dead pilot, damaged plane, and inbound missiles. But I think calling it a cliffhanger is just a little... extreme?

 

I've never written a cliffhanger in my life.......well, with the exception of the last 3 chapters!

 

To be honest, as a reader I love them, it keeps you wanting more. As a writer, I want to keep the readers hooked.

As to what constitutes as a cliffhanger, I feel it's a dramatic or unexpected end to a chapter. Yeah, you create certain mystery in a chapter, but nothing beats a dramatic end.

CJ is the king of cliffhangers, long may it continue.

 

I really have no idea why I keep getting that award... After all, I don't use cliffhangers.

 

Seriously though, I will say that as a reader, I do like them, provided they aren't overused and are well done and consistent. I also like ones where the clues to the resolution are already there, waiting for the reader to figure it out.

 

OK, I'll discuss. We amphibians have a keen sense of what constitutes a cliffhanger. Actually they are easy to spot...they always seem to smell of goat.

 

First, M*A*S*H. There were no cliffhangers in M*A*S*H. As horrible as the Korean War was, it really had nothing to do with the TV comedy. It was merely the background wherein a dysfunctional field hospital played host to an ensemble of goofball surgeons and nurses...all for laughs.

 

Errrrm, Your Amphibiousness, don't you remember MASH episodes where they were being shelled, bombed, attacked by snipers, etc? That war made for a constant background risk. Much akin to (picking a random example here) having a nearby volcano happen to be in the middle of an eruptive cycle. Sooo, if MASH's war wasn't a cliffhanger, neither is a volcano, right?

 

Cliffhangers may occur in literature or motion pictures at any interval. A weekly chapter release does not eliminate the presence of a cliffhanger merely because of the short wait for the next installment. When I was a kid, all the kids went to the Saturday afternoon movies at a neighborhood theater. [Admission was 12 cents; you saw six cartoons, a newsreel (the Korean War was the big news), two feature movies (at least one was a western), and a serial thriller. If you liked the show you could stay and watch it again free of charge.] My favorite serial was The Black Coin. The serial had a new episode each week and each episode ended with a cliffhanger.

 

 

There are varying degrees of cliffhangers found in literature and cinema. Most authors of serially-released stories use them to keep the interest of the reader. Rather than arguing endlessly about what constitiutes a cliffhanger or whether the latest chapter contains (or end with) one, the author should, as I suggested earlier, just suck it up and get on with writing the next chapter so that the latest cliffhanger, if any, can be resolved.

 

Thanks, Cliff, for the opportunity to comment on this burning issue.

 

Burning issue? As in.. a goat-roasting? ACK!

 

Well, when a story builds towards its dramatic climax, there's bound to be a trace of tension here and there in it. Unresolved plot issues do not a cliffhanger make!

 

Okay, let's discuss real cliffhangers. As a classic example, what about ending a chapter with a central character apparently being beaten to death, blows raining down, and at the very end, the character succumbs to the blackness. The reader is left not knowing if the character lives or dies, or how badly they are wounded if they survive. Now that's a cliffhanger! And, as it was posted very early this year as a part of a novel that is still being posted, I think it would be an ideal candidate (or rather, make the author, Graeme, one) for the 2009 King of Cliffhangers award.

 

BTW, I most highly recommend this story, which is entitled The Price of Friendship, one of the most innovative plots I've ever seen.

 

Okay, now, I think we can all agree that that was a classic cliffhanger. It occurred at the very end of a chapter, left the character's life in the balance (for two weeks!, Graeme posts bi-weekly) and was delivered in an very unexpected manner, though it was forshadowed. A real shocker. Now that's a cliffhanger!!

 

Graeme uses cliffhangers sparingly in most cases. The one exception I can think of offhand is his novel HOTT, where the title character was in continual danger of being literally rendered limb from limb, literally hacked to bits, in every chapter.

[Graeme]

Something I posted a long time ago at another site:

 

The "Cliffhanger" is something that is largely only relevant to serialised work. It doesn't make a lot of sense for a story where the reader (or viewer, in the case of movies/TV shows) can just skip to the next installment.

 

Now, I've read stories where every chapter ends in a cliffhanger. It's great for building tension, but I find it becomes incredibly annoying, especially if chapters take time to be published.

 

Graeme's Theory on Cliffhangers:

 

1. Used early on in the story, they help bring the reader in until the story gets well established.

 

2. Used late in the story, they help build the tension before the story conclusion.

 

3. Don't over use in the middle section of the story. It's a case of overdoing anything can be bad (eg. too much water can kill you -- it's known as drowning). Moderation is important.

 

Since that was originally posted, I'd like to refine it. A non-serialised story can use cliffhangers to keep readers reading by ending one chapter on a cliffhanger, and then have one or more chapters on a different part of the story. The reader then keeps reading, waiting to find out what happened after the cliffhanger.

[C James]

Something I posted a long time ago at another site:

 

The "Cliffhanger" is something that is largely only relevant to serialised work. It doesn't make a lot of sense for a story where the reader (or viewer, in the case of movies/TV shows) can just skip to the next installment.

 

Now, I've read stories where every chapter ends in a cliffhanger. It's great for building tension, but I find it becomes incredibly annoying, especially if chapters take time to be published.

 

Graeme's Theory on Cliffhangers:

 

1. Used early on in the story, they help bring the reader in until the story gets well established.

 

2. Used late in the story, they help build the tension before the story conclusion.

 

3. Don't over use in the middle section of the story. It's a case of overdoing anything can be bad (eg. too much water can kill you -- it's known as drowning). Moderation is important.

 

Since that was originally posted, I'd like to refine it. A non-serialised story can use cliffhangers to keep readers reading by ending one chapter on a cliffhanger, and then have one or more chapters on a different part of the story. The reader then keeps reading, waiting to find out what happened after the cliffhanger.

 

Thanks Graeme!!

 

This is far from my area of expertise, but I'd like to weigh in with a possible fourth use of cliffhangers, one applicable (As a tense or perilous situation that's resolved) in non-serials, too. This could be called using cliffhangers for memory effect. See what you think.

 

I can't think of a specific example to use , so let's take a hypothetical: The hypothetical author wants to make sure the reader remembers something that occurs early in the novel, that will be critical much later. He may choose to do so by highlighting it with a cliffhanger. For example, suppose the hypothetical author's plot involves a protagonist named "Eric" and an antagonist named "The Scar". They hypothetical author might need the readers to remember that, back in chapter 15 of the hypothetical story, that The Scar saw Eric's photo in the general's camera, and used it to deduce Eric's location. The hypothetical author could make the photo central to the chapter, make it the chapter's title point, and also use a cliffhanger at that point, involving this occurance, in order to plant that fact in the reader's minds, so that much later in the story, when that photo becomes plot-critical, the reader will remember it (on a subconcious if not concious level) and thus won't be as taken by surprise, and the use of the photo late in the hypothetical novel hopefully wasn't as jarring as it otherwise would be.

 

Oh, and BTW, I'd like to point out to one and all that Graeme is posting rules on cliffhangers, which surely shows his great renown and knowledge of the subject. Why, one could say (and I do) that Graeme's decrees on the subject of cliffhangers are the sovereign truth, and reign as proof that Graeme is truly deserving of the title "2009 King of Cliffhangers".

[Bondwriter]

Okay, now I've read up on this subject, I think I see what it means... A cliffhanger seems to involve a long length of time (say, between the end of one season and the begging of another) and this is usually measured in months. This would seem to preculde anything weekly being a cliffhanger, no?

 

(...)

 

Seems to me that the term "Cliffhanger" is being misused around these parts?

 

Please discuss.

As Mike aptly illustrated, cliffhangers originated with serials, which were published weekly, if not daily. (Think Alexandre Dumas, or Charles Dickens, whose stories attracted the papers' readers; tons of other writers in the 19th and 20th century contributed to the success of newspapers) So, someone posting weekly with unresolved situations would qualify for writing cliffhangers.

 

This is far from my area of expertise, but I'd like to weigh in with a possible fourth use of cliffhangers, one applicable (As a tense or perilous situation that's resolved) in non-serials, too. This could be called using cliffhangers for memory effect. See what you think.

 

Why, one could say (and I do) that Graeme's decrees on the subject of cliffhangers are the sovereign truth, and reign as proof that Graeme is truly deserving of the title "2009 King of Cliffhangers".

Campaigning ten months in advance? When are the primaries, and what's your platform, CJ ?

[TalonRider]

Why, one could say (and I do) that Graeme's decrees on the subject of cliffhangers are the sovereign truth, and reign as proof that Graeme is truly deserving of the title "2009 King of Cliffhangers".

Graeme is indeed eligible for 2009. Along with a few others around here. And I've made sure to point it out to them as well.

 

Now if you want to talk CLIFFHANGERS, I've got one for you. At the end of Book 2, part 1, we have this statement.

[Graeme]

This is far from my area of expertise, but I'd like to weigh in with a possible fourth use of cliffhangers, one applicable (As a tense or perilous situation that's resolved) in non-serials, too. This could be called using cliffhangers for memory effect. See what you think.

I'd go along with that. Indeed, I think it can be very effective if done well. I've never done that myself, but I've read a handful of stories that have done that, now that it's been pointed out to me.

 

Oh, and BTW, I'd like to point out to one and all that Graeme is posting rules on cliffhangers, which surely shows his great renown and knowledge of the subject. Why, one could say (and I do) that Graeme's decrees on the subject of cliffhangers are the sovereign truth, and reign as proof that Graeme is truly deserving of the title "2009 King of Cliffhangers".

That's like saying that the sports writer who shows a good understanding of the game should be deserving of Most Valuable Player for the season. There's a big difference between an academic understanding of a skill and the ability to use that skill expertly.

 

Now if you want to talk CLIFFHANGERS, I've got one for you. At the end of Book 2, part 1, we have this statement.

Jan, you haven't mentioned what story that is. I'm guessing it's The Scrolls of Icaria, but that's a guess.

[TalonRider]

That was deliberate since the author isn't a member here to make him eligible. That chapter wasn't posted this year anyway.

 

I guess you could say, I created a bit of a cliffy myself.

[C James]

This is far from my area of expertise, but I'd like to weigh in with a possible fourth use of cliffhangers, one applicable (As a tense or perilous situation that's resolved) in non-serials, too. This could be called using cliffhangers for memory effect. See what you think.

I'd go along with that. Indeed, I think it can be very effective if done well. I've never done that myself, but I've read a handful of stories that have done that, now that it's been pointed out to me.

Thank you Graeme! I'm delighted to see that we both agree (and I have the quote above to prove it) that cliffhangers are far from my area of expertise!!!

 

Seriously though, you've never done it yourself? Hrmmm... I beg to differ. I seem to recall a chapter ending in HOTT that you referred to as akin to hitting the readers with a machine gun, or words to that effect, and I could have sworn you mentioned doing that, in part, for later effect??? I'm going from memory here, so please take with a huge grain of salt.

 

That's like saying that the sports writer who shows a good understanding of the game should be deserving of Most Valuable Player for the season. There's a big difference between an academic understanding of a skill and the ability to use that skill expertly.

 

Ahh, but in this case, said sportswriter also happens to be, to extend the analogy, one of the top players in the league and also a coach. One does not preclude the other, so, therefor, yes, I'd say the expertise on the theoretical side, combined with the player's skill, would make said player an even better candidate for MVP. Or, in this case, King of Cliffhangers.

 

As Mike aptly illustrated, cliffhangers originated with serials, which were published weekly, if not daily. (Think Alexandre Dumas, or Charles Dickens, whose stories attracted the papers' readers; tons of other writers in the 19th and 20th century contributed to the success of newspapers) So, someone posting weekly with unresolved situations would qualify for writing cliffhangers.

 

Campaigning ten months in advance? When are the primaries, and what's your platform, CJ ?

 

Well, I have seen cliffhangers in published, non-serial novels. They are easy to do; as Graeme mentions,

the author simply shifts to another scene or plotline for a while. Could be a few paragraphs, or could be a few chapters. However, yes, cliffhangers did originate with serials, and were literal; some had the protagonist literally dangling off a cliff.

 

I do, though this is just my opinion (on an area far from my area of expertise), draw a distinction between weekly unresolved situations and long-running plot aspects that are unresolved. In a serial, say a TV show, you oft have a new situation develop with each episode (analogous to a chapter). Unresolved, that can be a cliffhanger. A different situation IMHO is for a series like MASH, where you have the ever-present threat of the war. In some episodes it plays a role (shelling, etc) but in many, it is just there. I don't see the continuation of the unresolved issue (the war) as a cliffhanger. In much the same way, the volcano in Changing Lanes can't be said to be a cliffhanger; it's just there; a continuing risk, and having effects (limiting transportation and communications, for example).

 

And didn't you know? Campaign seasons in the US are mind-numbingly long. I envy parliamentary systems their campaign brevity. However, one cannot ignore objective reality, so it is hardly too early for the campaigns to begin for the 2009 King of Cliffhangers award!

 

That was deliberate since the author isn't a member here to make him eligible. That chapter wasn't posted this year anyway.

 

I guess you could say, I created a bit of a cliffy myself.

 

Hrmmm. Yes, I would say that. Now, let's see what we have here! Jan is indeed a member of GA. He has publicly confirmed that he has created a cliffhanger. The cliffhanger occurs in an above post, which was authored by Jan. That makes him eligible for the 2009 King of Cliffhangers award, and I hereby duly nominate Jan for that award.

[Mark Arbour]

That's like saying that the sports writer who shows a good understanding of the game should be deserving of Most Valuable Player for the season. There's a big difference between an academic understanding of a skill and the ability to use that skill expertly.

 

Your modesty is kinda cute.

[TalonRider]

You're forgetting one important fact, Your Highness.

[Phantom]

DOH! forgot to add my 2.4 cents to this...

 

I found this deffinition on the internet (forgot the site though )

 

Cliffhanger (n) - a literary device used by a quadreped to have readers continue to beg for more chapters and leave them hanging on the edge of a cliff. This literary device also sometimes causes issues with readers and authors due to the fact that sometimes quadrepeds with their short attention span use them in more then one chapter in a row.

 

For prolific authors that use cliffhangers please see CJames, the resident 'King of Cliffhangers' on Gayauthors.org.

 

Eric

[TalonRider]

Ah, but cliffhangers aren't limited to just quadropeds. Bipeds use the too.

[C James]

DOH! forgot to add my 2.4 cents to this...

 

I found this deffinition on the internet (forgot the site though )

 

Cliffhanger (n) - a literary device used by a quadreped to have readers continue to beg for more chapters and leave them hanging on the edge of a cliff. This literary device also sometimes causes issues with readers and authors due to the fact that sometimes quadrepeds with their short attention span use them in more then one chapter in a row.

 

For prolific authors that use cliffhangers please see CJames, the resident 'King of Cliffhangers' on Gayauthors.org.

 

Eric

 

ACK! ERic!!!

 

Now, y'all know I don't use cliffhangers... So that can't be true!!

 

Ah, but cliffhangers aren't limited to just quadropeds. Bipeds use the too.

 

I can think of one quadruped who uses cliffhangers: Graeme...

[TalonRider]

I can think of another quadroped who's used them on a limited basis in a sci-fi/fantasy story in which a certain goat and bird of prey made guest appearances.

[AFriendlyFace]

I don't really have anything to add. I just wanted to say that I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread!

 

Regarding cliffhangers, I will say that when I feel like there is a 'big risk' of on-going cliffhangers in the material I'm reading or viewing, I often "avoid" them by waiting until enough of the material is around so that I can just read/view on.

 

I don't do that if they're more occasional things, but if I have reason to suspect that they'll be frequent and on-going I like to "save up" whatever the entertainment is so that I'm not left hanging

[wildone]

Okay, back to CJ's original post:

 

A third point is that the term generally means some sudden, unresolved dire peril (such as dangling off a cliff) rather than an ongoing sustained risk (for example, the TV series MASH was set in a warzone in the Korean war, and war is dangerous, but the setting itself did not constitute an ongoing cliffhanger).

 

Seems to me that the term "Cliffhanger" is being misused around these parts?

 

Please discuss.

 

Now lets look at some facts to be entered as evidence:

 

From LTMP 45:

 

Seeing Dimitri swaying drunkenly due to his precarious footing and awkward position, Brandon looked back at Eric, who was pulling himself from the hole, his shotgun in hand, but eight feet away. Realizing that there was no way to get the gun in time, nor even a loose rock to hurl, Brandon knew, in that bitter instant, that there was only one way. Springing forward into a leap, his heart aching with the knowledge that he

[C James]

I don't really have anything to add. I just wanted to say that I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread!

 

Regarding cliffhangers, I will say that when I feel like there is a 'big risk' of on-going cliffhangers in the material I'm reading or viewing, I often "avoid" them by waiting until enough of the material is around so that I can just read/view on.

 

I don't do that if they're more occasional things, but if I have reason to suspect that they'll be frequent and on-going I like to "save up" whatever the entertainment is so that I'm not left hanging

 

Well, at least you don't have to worry about any ongoing (or any kind) of cliffhangers in Changing Lanes, because there aren;t any.

 

Okay, back to CJ's original post:

 

Now lets look at some facts to be entered as evidence:

 

From LTMP 45:

 

So what about falling off a cliff at the end of a chapter?

 

Does that count?

 

Of course not! Brandon was not hanging off a cliff, so no cliffhanger. He was in the air, with nothing to worry about except a bit of gravity.

 

This was another ending of a tale, well the second last paragraph, from CJ posted here.

 

So we have two examples penned by the goat, do I need to find more evidence?

 

I don't think there has been any misuse of the term when it comes to CJ's works

 

Not true. As you point out, that wasn't at the end of the story, but the penultimate paragraph. So, not a cliffhanger ending.

 

And before anyone bring it up, I will; LTMP 19 was not a cliffhanger; it's true that we did have a member of Instinct falling off a vertical rock surface, and was then reported dead. However, we didn't know which member, and they'd already fallen and hit the ground, so not a cliffhanger.

 

CJ

[wildone]

And before anyone bring it up, I will; LTMP 19 was not a cliffhanger; it's true that we did have a member of Instinct falling off a vertical rock surface, and was then reported dead. However, we didn't know which member, and they'd already fallen and hit the ground, so not a cliffhanger.

 

CJ

 

Oh, silly me . I get it now, your forum, your rules .

[TalonRider]

While working on another project today for Jamie, author of "The Scrolls of Icaria", he addresses cliffhangers. With his permission, I'm going to post his answer to the question.

 

Do you like to write cliff-hangers into chapters? I often finish a chapter and it seems to leave me hanging. Do you do this intentionally?

 

No. I

[BeaStKid]

Jumping straight down, for me it is----> a CJ/dkstories chapter....

 

 

J/k...

 

Anything that leaves me with a feeling of wanting to know more, especially in tense situations, is a cliffie in my opinion. And, I do not need to give examples, do I?