How do you date a religious gay guy?

[Tipdin]

To know others, we must first know yourself.

Everyone knows where the shoe pinches.

 

To be "out of your element" should be a pleasure once you have accepted it !

 

I love this! I live this!

 

I come from a very mixed, (er, maybe mixed up!) family. I have Jewish roots via my mother, though I do not claim to be Jewish. I have Protestant and Catholic cousins that became ministers, priests and nuns. I have several black relatives, some of whom are Cajun and some identify with their African roots in a much more demonstrative way. I've got nearly every major religion imaginable in my family, straight, gay, and transgendered family members, and several languages spoken as well. We cover the entire financial spectrum and somehow, we manage to get along fine.

 

We have some pretty wild and complicated holidays, but there is a spirit of adventure and wonder that prevails. Politics, religion, ethics, morals - we'll tackle anything. Sometimes, the debate gets so heated that people revert back to their native language and then nobody understands what the other side is saying so EVERY side can claim victory...

 

We have a family motto that we try to instill in our children and live by as adults: Treat self, others, and the Earth with the kind of tender care that ensures well-being.

 

When all else fails, we can point to the motto carved into the mantle. We often ask; "Does the difference make a difference?"

 

Whether we go this way or that, in the end, does it make a difference? If so, does that difference make a difference? Am I closer to God, a better human being, more honest, more caring, more real or true?

 

In my family, we often debate the merits of a choice, not so much the choice, itself. To act with honor in a way that protects well-being - beyond that, does anything that's different, make a difference? To what degree? To what advantage? At what cost? Most things have a down side, remember.

 

I had a husband who was a Catholic priest. We debated his job and beliefs constantly. (To begin with, he was shtupping when he was supposed to be ignoring!) It drove him crazy that I didn't even care if Adam and Eve were real or if my soul was aimed in the right direction. I kept telling him that it made no difference to how I was going to live my life. I had children to feed. I had bills to pay. I had music to which I must dance. My intentions were honorable and my actions were to, well..., most of the time, so really, what did it matter that I wasn't a practicing Jew - either reformed or Hassidic? Who cares if I didn't go get the white potato chip and drink the punch at mass, as my little one used to say?

 

Intent and action. Those are what matter. As long as both are done gently and in accord with your conscience, do the details really matter THAT much. And if they do, why do they matter that much? There's your two conversations. I say two - the first one is internal. Know what your talking about - thoroughly! The second conversation is the one you have with the person(s) that will be impacted.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Tipdin

[old bob]

Intent and action. Those are what matter. As long as both are done gently and in accord with your conscience, do the details really matter THAT much...

It's not so easy tobring intent and action on the same "wave lenght" !

Often, I thought that my mind had defined my intent but my body choosed to act differently !

But at the end, I always accepted the will of my body, because it was always stronger and the result was never so bad that I expected..... and the mind has to follow, isn't it ?

[West Coast Dude]

I think I can understand this former paragraph. There is a component in our mind in respect to bedroom activities. Depending on the needs of each one, one gay can be a receiver or a giver. If one is a receiver one needs this strength, the manly essence in him. It is like we are lacking of some essential stuff in our blood. That is what a giver can give us. On the other hand, if we are givers, we need a recipient, a hungry partner that need all this we have in excess.

Then, the problematic part of this theory is that some of us are unstable. We can be takers for a period, and feel wholly full of strength and manly stuff to feed others. Then, If I am living with a giver, always full manliness, always looking for a willing receptor, problems would arise after a period of living together.

 

This problem also arises among heterosexual couples. It is assumed the male is the giver. In the first phase of living together, all is right. Each member of the couple has its role; one is a giver, the other is a taker. Then, there is a problem with the receptors of neurotransmitters in the brain. They can get exhausted and weakened. Perhaps many of those receptors can die of overwork. So, the orgasms are not as intense as before. They had lost some their former knockout. Then, for some reason, the brain gets tired of all those pyrotechnics, it needs a period of rest. After a period of rest more or less prolonged, some of the neurotransmitters get cured and we are able to start anew withe a new episode of falling in love.

We are not all made the same. While one member of the couple gets tired, the other is not, and it starts to build up problems. The one that has not tired, starts to feel frustrated.

 

Then this is when one tells the other, "you do not love me by my personality; you only love me by the sex."

Then the other replied, "what are you saying?"

It comes ready the answer, "I do not like to be a sex toy."

And the rusting of living together starts to build up.

Then the giver says, "you are getting tired of me, aren't you?"

And it comes the reply, "Well, it is not exactly tired. But I am still feeling a little hurt of yesterday."

"yesterday? We did nothing yesterday. It was three days ago."

"Anyway, you are rather brutish."

"You did not say that when we started with this."

And so on.

 

I mean, the receptors can get exhausted and knocked out. And some brains are more prone to have receptors tired or wrecked up than others.

 

I remember a beautiful and intelligent young lady in this group that wrote, "love is like a drug. We can get hooked on it, and forget all the rest." I agree with this. But is also like a drug in that our brains can get tired of this huge floods of neurotransmitters. We cannot stand this for long periods of time; our brains get tired. If you had any notice about how a new couple works, you had heard the complains. On a side, women say, "man are always thinking of the same thing". The men complain "women are too often with a headache."

 

We are not all made equal. We are very similar, but not equal.

It is a little bit like playing tennis. One can get easily tired in half an hour, while others can play for a few hours, even under a heat of 90 to 95 F degrees.

 

I think if you start out as a friends, that's great because your relationship is solid, before you start to explore the possibility of more. Plus you already know each other so there's no surprises, and I think you both are more likely to last longer..that's my opinion. What do you guys think?

[corvus]

This title interested me, because my guy is so anti-religious it's almost a religion: his parents - mother especially - are hardcore Catholics, and I honestly think he's been hurt by the experience. So I don't mind when he goes out of his way to be a bit iconoclastic. (I myself am not religious - I do find the stories and metaphors to be powerful and real.)

 

I don't know on what terms the two of you take religion and each others' religion, but it might be helpful to relate it to one's personal history, for example, if one is used to certain traditions, if one had a powerful experience in a temple, etc. That works better than these isolated images and words and terms.

 

I'm glad, also, that you've found a guy you like.

[West Coast Dude]

This title interested me, because my guy is so anti-religious it's almost a religion: his parents - mother especially - are hardcore Catholics, and I honestly think he's been hurt by the experience. So I don't mind when he goes out of his way to be a bit iconoclastic. (I myself am not religious - I do find the stories and metaphors to be powerful and real.)

 

I don't know on what terms the two of you take religion and each others' religion, but it might be helpful to relate it to one's personal history, for example, if one is used to certain traditions, if one had a powerful experience in a temple, etc. That works better than these isolated images and words and terms.

 

I'm glad, also, that you've found a guy you like.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with trying to relate to a person's history.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with trying to relate to a person's history.

 

One guy I was interested in had absolutely no respect for any religion other than athiesm. He considered christians a fraud and it was almost a malice, that I realized it wouldn't go anywhere. A couple months later I found out that he's dating 3 guys at once, all have no clue of each other, and he's lying through his teeth. Lucky I never went there...I think relating to someone's faith and respecting it is important. But I know for me in the end it won't work unless a guy is a christian and he has the same faith as me...

[astroguy]

As an atheistic agnostic, I'm dating a guy who is some form of Christianity. I'll admit - there are issues. I find that I can very easily tick him off with what I consider to be legitimate if naïve questions (I asked him around Christmas why people thought Mary was a virgin versus just having gotten knocked up -- though I phrased it more kindly). In general, I try to avoid the topic with him. He's not orthodox nor ultra-religious, doesn't really go to Church, but, yeah, there are just some things we can't discuss.

[West Coast Dude]

I think I can understand this former paragraph. There is a component in our mind in respect to bedroom activities. Depending on the needs of each one, one gay can be a receiver or a giver. If one is a receiver one needs this strength, the manly essence in him. It is like we are lacking of some essential stuff in our blood. That is what a giver can give us. On the other hand, if we are givers, we need a recipient, a hungry partner that need all this we have in excess.

Then, the problematic part of this theory is that some of us are unstable. We can be takers for a period, and feel wholly full of strength and manly stuff to feed others. Then, If I am living with a giver, always full manliness, always looking for a willing receptor, problems would arise after a period of living together.

 

This problem also arises among heterosexual couples. It is assumed the male is the giver. In the first phase of living together, all is right. Each member of the couple has its role; one is a giver, the other is a taker. Then, there is a problem with the receptors of neurotransmitters in the brain. They can get exhausted and weakened. Perhaps many of those receptors can die of overwork. So, the orgasms are not as intense as before. They had lost some their former knockout. Then, for some reason, the brain gets tired of all those pyrotechnics, it needs a period of rest. After a period of rest more or less prolonged, some of the neurotransmitters get cured and we are able to start anew withe a new episode of falling in love.

We are not all made the same. While one member of the couple gets tired, the other is not, and it starts to build up problems. The one that has not tired, starts to feel frustrated.

 

Then this is when one tells the other, "you do not love me by my personality; you only love me by the sex."

Then the other replied, "what are you saying?"

It comes ready the answer, "I do not like to be a sex toy."

And the rusting of living together starts to build up.

Then the giver says, "you are getting tired of me, aren't you?"

And it comes the reply, "Well, it is not exactly tired. But I am still feeling a little hurt of yesterday."

"yesterday? We did nothing yesterday. It was three days ago."

"Anyway, you are rather brutish."

"You did not say that when we started with this."

And so on.

 

I mean, the receptors can get exhausted and knocked out. And some brains are more prone to have receptors tired or wrecked up than others.

 

I remember a beautiful and intelligent young lady in this group that wrote, "love is like a drug. We can get hooked on it, and forget all the rest." I agree with this. But is also like a drug in that our brains can get tired of this huge floods of neurotransmitters. We cannot stand this for long periods of time; our brains get tired. If you had any notice about how a new couple works, you had heard the complains. On a side, women say, "man are always thinking of the same thing". The men complain "women are too often with a headache."

 

We are not all made equal. We are very similar, but not equal.

It is a little bit like playing tennis. One can get easily tired in half an hour, while others can play for a few hours, even under a heat of 90 to 95 F degrees.

 

I don't think sex is worth it without love...

[Prince Duchess]

You just date them. Religion shouldnt have anything to do with it. You date them for who they are, not who they believe in or worship.

[West Coast Dude]

You just date them. Religion shouldnt have anything to do with it. You date them for who they are, not who they believe in or worship.

 

But it becomes difficult if you're both having opposite values on things like abortion, sex, money, alcohol, that's why it helps if you two have the same faith.

[W_L]

Sad update, we're drifting further apart.

 

Neither of us have anything to say to each other anymore, we try to go watch a show and have dinner, but it was an awkward evening. We talk politics well, but other topics seem distant to both us. I'm very into technology and more intrinsic subjects like philosophy, history, and literature, but he's less inclined to those subjects.

[hh5]

Sad update, we're drifting further apart.

 

Neither of us have anything to say to each other anymore, we try to go watch a show and have dinner, but it was an awkward evening. We talk politics well, but other topics seem distant to both us. I'm very into technology and more intrinsic subjects like philosophy, history, and literature, but he's less inclined to those subjects.

 

When I lived in NY, I worked in a jewish own company. Not orthadox and then a few years later we get one or two orthadox.

I take one the orthadox guy to the Jewish Deli when I cleared it with our boss.

Its interesting to be able to eat lunch with one of three co-workers - I have lunch with from time to time.

I learn the Jewish faith to some degree ... I say I learn alot from him ... and its still about learning

about who they are under their faith ... the traditions and values they follow and how different they are.

 

Hey its like ... all chinese look alike but we're different and people of differences has to learn how we're different but still are people.

 

Time to find out if

* The interest between what has change between you two ...

Like having where you each other is at talk

 

Both of you having the freedome to talk with each other without judging each other

 

* Perhaps there is more to like than Tax, Politics, Law ... perhaps he's afraid to ask and perhaps there is something you're afraid to ask

 

* There is always something more or less to people

[West Coast Dude]

Sad update, we're drifting further apart.

 

Neither of us have anything to say to each other anymore, we try to go watch a show and have dinner, but it was an awkward evening. We talk politics well, but other topics seem distant to both us. I'm very into technology and more intrinsic subjects like philosophy, history, and literature, but he's less inclined to those subjects.

 

WL - What exactl are your religious beliefs, have you two met each other's families?

[DragonFire]

I couldn’t date anyone overly religious. I’m a total atheist; so much of that side of the conversation would be totally moot. I’ve dipped my toe into that pool before now and frankly would have reservations in doing it again. I have no issues with belief, it’s when they try and impose that on you I have major issues.

 

I had a boyfriend/f*** buddy once (albeit for 2 weeks) that criticised my lifestyle, my friends, the fact that I smoke and drank too much…. but then had no problem what so ever in spending the night with his legs in the air! Go figure.

 

I don’t base everything on that one experience, but if I date a guy, then I at least want somebody with my own low moral standards!

 

 

[W_L]

WL - What exactl are your religious beliefs, have you two met each other's families?

 

In practice, I should be a Catholic, but my family has mixed religious views: Protestant, Taoist, Buddhist, and even Jewish (odd enough Asians do seem to have a lot of relationships with Jewish people).

 

My family is not devout in any faith; though, we observe the concepts of our faith, we don't force our beliefs on each other, even the Baptist side of the family are only emissary of the faith without the strong message.

 

My boyfriend is much more devout and intense about Jewish beliefs. He has changed synagogues several times trying to find a more stricter faith on observance. We're different and at first it was fun, but now I am not sure where we are going.

[West Coast Dude]

In practice, I should be a Catholic, but my family has mixed religious views: Protestant, Taoist, Buddhist, and even Jewish (odd enough Asians do seem to have a lot of relationships with Jewish people).

 

My family is not devout in any faith; though, we observe the concepts of our faith, we don't force our beliefs on each other, even the Baptist side of the family are only emissary of the faith without the strong message.

 

My boyfriend is much more devout and intense about Jewish beliefs. He has changed synagogues several times trying to find a more stricter faith on observance. We're different and at first it was fun, but now I am not sure where we are going.

 

Before you said you were dating, now he's your bf? Well if he's Jewish and hard core about his faith, how's it going to go over when you meet his parents and they find out you're not jewish. Jewish parents and their views are very important to your kids! GOOD LUCK!

[W_L]

Before you said you were dating, now he's your bf? Well if he's Jewish and hard core about his faith, how's it going to go over when you meet his parents and they find out you're not jewish. Jewish parents and their views are very important to your kids! GOOD LUCK!

 

Actually, we never got to that point.

 

Our relationship is over; we tried to make it work, but it just wouldn't happen. We're still friends, but there was no real spark for either of us anymore.

 

We went from casual dating to boyfriends, then nothing over the span of several months. It's a reality that neither of us were right for the other.

[West Coast Dude]

Actually, we never got to that point.

 

Our relationship is over; we tried to make it work, but it just wouldn't happen. We're still friends, but there was no real spark for either of us anymore.

 

We went from casual dating to boyfriends, then nothing over the span of several months. It's a reality that neither of us were right for the other.

 

I think next time you should try dating someone with the same beliefs as you, and you have the same values. You might find you progress farther in a relationship

[astroguy]

Actually, we never got to that point.

 

Our relationship is over; we tried to make it work, but it just wouldn't happen. We're still friends, but there was no real spark for either of us anymore.

 

We went from casual dating to boyfriends, then nothing over the span of several months. It's a reality that neither of us were right for the other.

 

I actually think I'm in that position now, but I really don't want to take that step of "let's just be friends." Though this isn't due to any religious disagreement per-say.

[West Coast Dude]

I actually think I'm in that position now, but I really don't want to take that step of "let's just be friends." Though this isn't due to any religious disagreement per-say.

 

I'm sorry to hear about the end of your relationship

[John Galaor]

Sad update, we're drifting further apart.

 

Neither of us have anything to say to each other anymore, we try to go watch a show and have dinner, but it was an awkward evening. We talk politics well, but other topics seem distant to both us. I'm very into technology and more intrinsic subjects like philosophy, history, and literature, but he's less inclined to those subjects.

 

these questions can put up more space among people than others. But even religion... it can be a problem, unless we are talking about light religion.

 

Anyway, I think harmony among two persons is rather difficult, after a while living together. Even among heterosexual couples. Aloofness can be caused by the same reasons.

 

Some one told here, perhaps west coast did, that sex without love makes not any sense. I was thinking mostly about the opposite. Love without or with very little sex, can be also a problem. Then, the frustrations that can cause the differences in the frequency of lust desires can be a cause for separation in any couple. Have you heard this argument about the headache? I have never been living with another guy, but it can happen the same things as among heterosexual couples.

 

"What about..."

"Today is impossible. I got a terrible headache."

And that's all. This is life.

 

But the worse thing is when someone wants to change you. If he wants to change your thinking, your tastes, interest, etc. This also can be a poison in a relation. But this must be like a sort of universal trait; we want to change the other ones that live with us.

 

Then, the differences in home tiding, expending money, saving or working, can be a very knotty problem.

Even the differences is taste watching movies, TV, sports, vacations or leisure time, can be also a source of problems. Then, what could be the nexus that could tie two persons? The only thing that comes to my mind is sex.

I understand that sharing the bills of an apartment like electricity, water, rent, etc. are also an argument. But perhaps is not the stronger of arguments.