Poor Man's Son

[methodwriter85]

Something to think about: would anyone think it was okay if that scene had taken place with 14-year old Marie instead of Will? Why is there such a double standard about this?

[Mark Arbour]

Oh for Christ's sake. Will watched the guy jack off. Big deal. "Scott" is being playful, and flirtatious, but he didn't touch Will, and it's unlikely that he would. Maybe he has a bit of an exhibitionist streak, or maybe he was channeling himself when he was that young, and decided to give Will a thrill. I think that's pretty innocuous.

[rjo]

Back in The Box JP watched Steven. For some reason that seemed an innocent encounter. Forgive me if I am reading it wrong but it still seems Scott was preying on Will. Will just met him. The question is was this an innocent encounter or more? Only you know Mark. The rest of us can only wait and see.

[Mark Arbour]

Back in The Box JP watched Steven. For some reason that seemed an innocent encounter. Forgive me if I am reading it wrong but it still seems Scott was preying on Will. Will just met him. The question is was this an innocent encounter or more? Only you know Mark. The rest of us can only wait and see.

 

I think that Scott is one of those guys who never misses an opportunity. I would bet that if Will gave him an opening, er, so to speak, he'd jump in and take advantage of it. Let's remember that this is a guy with limited scruples, and generally lacks a moral compass. The only time we've seen him act like a good guy (as an adult) was in Millennium, and even there one could say that was nice, noble, but also purely in his own self-interest. That's probably why it seems like he's preying on Will, because in his own way, he probably is. But he also has to balance his motives against the fact that he's Brad's kid, and Scott knows what Brad is like when he's pissed, and protecting his family.

 

So in that context, he's basically teasing Will, and having been where Will was some tens of years earlier, he figures it will fire the kid up and give him one hell of a jack-off session (which it did). And if Will had strolled in there and blown him while he was beating off, well, that would have been just fine with Scott as well. He probably could have talked his way out of that one, more or less. "I was just beating off on MY patio (the one off his room) when the guy came up and blew me. I was horned up. I wasn't thinking straight." Scott wins either way.

 

What 14 year old gay guy, in that situation, wouldn't have watched a hot, 38 year old guy blow his load? Especially when he thinks he's doing it anonymously. I think the fact that Will watched, and did nothing more, is what makes it NOT creepy, since he showed the self-control in that situation.

 

So the external forces keep Scott from blatantly trying to sleep with Will, and Will's own internal forces keep him from being weak enough to do the same. This is about as close to an encounter as they can legitimately get.

 

For now.

[KYE]

What 14 year old gay guy, in that situation, wouldn't have watched a hot, 38 year old guy blow his load? Especially when he thinks he's doing it anonymously. I think the fact that Will watched, and did nothing more, is what makes it NOT creepy, since he showed the self-control in that situation.

 

 

As someone that neither thought that the scene in the chapter was "Hot" nor "Creepy" I would disagree. Whether one found the episode creepy may depend upon from what perspective the reader is reading that scene. If one is reading it from a perspective of a 13 year old (almost 14) a year or two into puberty getting the chance to see an attractive guy jack-off, one would probably NOT think of it as creepy. We all had some sort of jack-off material or fantasy (multiple in my case) at that age.

BUT if the reader is reading the scene from the perspective of an older man knowingly putting on an exhibitionist jack-off sex show for the 13 year old kid of his high school best friend, or any 13 year old for that matter, then I would easily see were the reader would find the scene "Creepy". That would actually also probably be illegal almost anywhere in the USA.

 

Now my perspective as a reader while reading the scene was more of thinking "Why does Will's father and other gay family members keep on putting Will into these situations?"

Being overly protective is one thing but these family members do not seem to even think about any potential issues with Will even after all the things (from rape to recent teen love life breakups to putting on a strip show with happy ending at a Gay Bar they let him go to) he has been thru. So from my perspective I was thinking about how Brad used to be my favorite character and that now how far he has fallen in my eyes with his detailed portrayal as a parent in this story. Brad, and even Robbie, knew what kind of person Lark is and still put Will into a potential situation with him. For me Brad's fall began with the darkness his character took near the end of Millennium and has worsened as I see how he deals with Will and the situations he puts him in. So for me it was neither Hot nor Creepy but from my thoughts of Brad putting Will in the situation. So I think it is from what perspective the reader is coming from and taking from the story so far.

 

I also found the conversation that Lark (Scott) having with Will to be out of character for Lark. I think that was an important conversation for the story but I could picture Cody and Will in that conversation not Lark and Will. I had trouble seeing Lark in that conversation especially since he has always denied being Gay through out the stories he has been in and has always being the most selfish recurring character of the CAP series that hurts people consistently.

 

Also I have found it so funny throughout this story, reviews, and comments in the forum as to when one calls Will a 13 year old or a 14 year old. He is in the story still a 13 year old. But when one talks about Will in relation to something sexual, like here about if the scene with Lark is creepy, he is called 14 years old. If there is discussion about non-sexual or family matters about Will he is a 13 year old. It is like people are trying to justify anything sexual with Will as a little better if one makes him a year older. I think that is interesting and a bit funny.

Edited August 26, 2011 by KYE

[methodwriter85]

Being overly protective is one thing but these family members do not seem to even think about any potential issues with Will even after all the things (from rape to recent teen love life breakups to putting on a strip show with happy ending at a Gay Bar they let him go to) he has been thru. So from my perspective I was thinking about how Brad used to be my favorite character and that now how far he has fallen in my eyes with his detailed portrayal as a parent in this story. Brad, and even Robbie, knew what kind of person Lark is and still put Will into a potential situation with him. For me Brad's fall began with the darkness his character took near the end of Millennium and has worsened as I see how he deals with Will and the situations he puts him in. So for me it was neither Hot nor Creepy but from my thoughts of Brad putting Will in the situation. So I think it is from what perspective the reader is coming from and taking from the story so far.

That's a damn good question. Brad never stopped to think, "You know, maybe I shouldn't put my son in a situation where there's a damn good chance my 38-year old friend without a moral compass is going to hit on him, even jokingly, and that would be pretty inappropriate and damaging to a son that just went through getting raped by an older man?"

 

And Will's actual 14th birthday is going to feel completely non-eventful since everyone seems to think he's already 14 anyway. LOL.

[Mark Arbour]

As someone that neither thought that the scene in the chapter was "Hot" nor "Creepy" I would disagree. Whether one found the episode creepy may depend upon from what perspective the reader is reading that scene. If one is reading it from a perspective of a 13 year old (almost 14) a year or two into puberty getting the chance to see an attractive guy jack-off, one would probably NOT think of it as creepy. We all had some sort of jack-off material or fantasy (multiple in my case) at that age.

BUT if the reader is reading the scene from the perspective of an older man knowingly putting on an exhibitionist jack-off sex show for the 13 year old kid of his high school best friend, or any 13 year old for that matter, then I would easily see were the reader would find the scene "Creepy". That would actually also probably be illegal almost anywhere in the USA.

 

 

 

That is some excellent perspective!

[PrivateTim]

I really liked how Scott explained the facts of life to Will, and how Will actually listened and seemed to understand. The scene with Will watching Scott was so hot and I can totally see in a couple of years a more intimate scene occuring.

 

I liked Lark's summation of Will's situation. Didn't find it hot. I understand the curiosity of a teen boy, I loved Just Looking with Patti Lupone.

 

You obviously have never been put in a situation where you had to grow up in a school teaming with teenaged divas. Trust me, JJ could be much, much worse. I'm thinking it is pretty much what Will said it is- JJ's bothered by Gathan getting attention, and they just clash with each other.

 

The Zach/JJ theory is interesting, but I can't really see where Zach would have gotten the time alone with JJ because JJ gets very little time to socialize, or that he would have even had the interest in JJ's pre-pubescent body. Shrimps don't get much interest from 10th grade guys- only the developed ones like Will and John get that. I remember pretty distinctly that, in 8th grade, the only girls who were dating high school guys were the girls who looked like women, not girls who still looked 11 or 12.

 

Everyone has their own taste in the gay world. Not everyone likes a muscle stud. Some guys like the shrimp, the nerd, the swimmer, the cross country guy, the wrestler, the band guy, etc.

 

I didn't find the scene hot, but if Will really has to get with a middle-aged guy, I guess Scott's an okay choice. I don't want it to be Max because that would require Max to have a falling out with Tim to happen, and I really don't like the way Cody seems to be working his way through the Crampton/Schluter/Hayes family.

 

If Will has an encounter with a middle aged (is 38 middle aged now? What does that make Mark? ) I hope it is someone no one in the family knows. Wills own thing.

 

Oh for Christ's sake. Will watched the guy jack off. Big deal. "Scott" is being playful, and flirtatious, but he didn't touch Will, and it's unlikely that he would. Maybe he has a bit of an exhibitionist streak, or maybe he was channeling himself when he was that young, and decided to give Will a thrill. I think that's pretty innocuous.

 

Lark doesn't have to touch Will. what he did, knowing Will was watching would be illegal in any state I can think of. Here is the California statute, I presume Hawaii has a similar law.

 

288. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (i), any person who willfully and lewdly commits any lewd or lascivious act, including any of the acts constituting

other crimes provided for in Part 1,upon or with the body, or any part or member thereof, of a child who is under the age of 14 years, with the intent of arousing,

appealing to, or gratifying the lust, passions, or sexual desires of that person or the child, is guilty of a felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, six, or eight years.

As someone that neither thought that the scene in the chapter was "Hot" nor "Creepy" I would disagree. Whether one found the episode creepy may depend upon from what perspective the reader is reading that scene. If one is reading it from a perspective of a 13 year old (almost 14) a year or two into puberty getting the chance to see an attractive guy jack-off, one would probably NOT think of it as creepy. We all had some sort of jack-off material or fantasy (multiple in my case) at that age.

 

BUT if the reader is reading the scene from the perspective of an older man knowingly putting on an exhibitionist jack-off sex show for the 13 year old kid of his high school best friend, or any 13 year old for that matter, then I would easily see were the reader would find the scene "Creepy". That would actually also probably be illegal almost anywhere in the USA.

 

Now my perspective as a reader while reading the scene was more of thinking "Why does Will's father and other gay family members keep on putting Will into these situations?"

Being overly protective is one thing but these family members do not seem to even think about any potential issues with Will even after all the things (from rape to recent teen love life breakups to putting on a strip show with happy ending at a Gay Bar they let him go to) he has been thru. So from my perspective I was thinking about how Brad used to be my favorite character and that now how far he has fallen in my eyes with his detailed portrayal as a parent in this story. Brad, and even Robbie, knew what kind of person Lark is and still put Will into a potential situation with him. For me Brad's fall began with the darkness his character took near the end of Millennium and has worsened as I see how he deals with Will and the situations he puts him in. So for me it was neither Hot nor Creepy but from my thoughts of Brad putting Will in the situation. So I think it is from what perspective the reader is coming from and taking from the story so far.

 

I also found the conversation that Lark (Scott) having with Will to be out of character for Lark. I think that was an important conversation for the story but I could picture Cody and Will in that conversation not Lark and Will. I had trouble seeing Lark in that conversation especially since he has always denied being Gay through out the stories he has been in and has always being the most selfish recurring character of the CAP series that hurts people consistently.

It is creepy to flirt with an ex-lovers son.

 

I am actually starting to warm up to Brad. I didn't like him in Be Rad or many of the other stories. He starting to look more human and vulnerable and a typically indulgent Colony parent/

[methodwriter85]

Everyone has their own taste in the gay world. Not everyone likes a muscle stud. Some guys like the shrimp, the nerd, the swimmer, the cross country guy, the wrestler, the band guy, etc.

True, but people usually like someone who's been through puberty. JJ hasn't, quite yet, gone through it. As Mark said once, it's always the guys who developed fast like Andy in Cross-Currents that get laid first. The nerdy late bloomers have to wait longer. LOL.

 

More than anything though- it would be JJ's prissy diva personality that would be a turn-off, and his lack of a social life that would be the ultimate c-block for him. Considering that Zach's tastes so far indicates he likes masculine tops who make him into their bottom bitch, I can't see where JJ would appeal to him. I mean, I could be wrong, but JJ doesn't seem like he'd be Zach's type unless he somehow butched up and no longer looked 12.

 

If Will has an encounter with a middle aged (is 38 middle aged now? What does that make Mark? ) I hope it is someone no one in the family knows. Wills own thing.

It'd be cool if it were a professor that Will liked and respected when he is in college, and I agree that it'd be great if it were someone that no one else in the family was acquainted with. Will does seem like he marches more to the beat of his own drummer, so why not pick people who aren't shared family lovers?

 

It is creepy to flirt with an ex-lovers son.

I think this is one of the reasons why A Summer Love left so many people cold. There was something very creepy about 55-year old JP having an sustained love affair with his dead lover's 22-year old son. Marcel was the same age that Jeff was when he died in 1968, adding to the ick factor. It didn't bother me so much at the time, but now I just think it was majorly inappropriate. Although to be fair to Mark, I don't think we were ever supposed to think it was a healthy relationship for either of them.

 

I am actually starting to warm up to Brad. I didn't like him in Be Rad or many of the other stories. He starting to look more human and vulnerable and a typically indulgent Colony parent.

 

I do think that Claire and Jack are...I guess not so much "strict", but I can't in any way imagine Claire putting up with Will's bratty behavior the way Brad and Jeanine do. And I don't think Darius would have ever been allowed to slack off in school, either.

 

I do like that we're seeing the results of what a lax and permissive childhood will turn a kid into- Will isn't a total bitch like JJ, but he is awfully entitled. I think they could both use a cold, hard reality bitchslap. JJ's in the form of watching the '02 Olympics from the stands; not sure what Will's would be.

[centexhairysub]

Okay, I have to say that I did not find Scott's(Lark) behaviour in any way inappropriate. While with Will and Brad he flirted with both but you knew, if you had have a brain, that it wasn't going anywhere with either of them. Some people are just like that, they flirt with everyone from two to one hundred and two. It is an automatic natural part of who they are... Do I think that Scott/Lark would sleep with Will if Will came to him and asked, no, I don't. I think that Scott/Lark knows what Brad did in the last story and he knows what lengths Brad would go to over that. I don't think that Scott would cross that line with Will even if he was over the age of consent. Now, if Brad asked came to him; it would be a totally different answer but.......

 

Now, as to Scott masturbating in front of Will. Although at the end of the scene, Scott turns and looks to where Will is hiding, there is nothing to indicate that Scott knew who was watching him, just that someone was. Scott seems like the kind of person that would get off on knowing that someone, anyone was watching him get off. Do I believe that Scott knew it was Will, yes; but there is nothing in the story to indicate that for sure.

 

I checked with a friend of mind in the DA's office in San Diego and and friend that is a lawyer here in Texas, he used to be a assistant DA in Williamson County. Neither of those states would have prosecuted the individual as the story was written. In order to prosecute, the state would have to prove that the person masturbating knew they were being watched by someone that was under that age of the statute and knowingly performed the act while being watched. I had both of them read the chapter and they both agreed that as it is written, that a conviction would not be possible. Will was hidden and all Scott would have to do was say he never saw or didn't know who was watching him.

 

I personally did find the scene hot. I think part of my reason was because when I was twelve and starting puberty; I had a chance to watch a couple of older guys pleasure themselves in much the same way. Both were alone, both were probably twenty or thirty years older, and both knew they were being watched. It was hot for me then and it still is now. I personally wouldn't have found it any less hot if it was Marie watching then if it was Will.

 

I do not understand all the references to JJ being bitchy. There has been nothing in any of the last few stories actually showing this behaviour other than his actions toward his brothers; and to some extent that is how brother's act toward each other, call it bitchy or asshole, same thing... Actually just two stories ago, the general consensous of those in the stories was that JJ was warm, open, friendly, easy going, etc... My god could being in your early teens turn you surly????

 

Now, I do agree that JJ seems to have developed a real antipathy toward Gathan but that almost seems out of character for him. That is why I wondered if Zach had done something to him, I did not imply he raped him or topped him, just that something might have happened. Since Zach isn't around, JJ is taking it out on Gathan. It just seems totally out of character for JJ to treat someone other than his brothers like this. Especially since nothing obvious ever happened between Gathan and him, I don't buy JJ being jealous or lacking in attention. He has Jeanine and Tiffany almost full time, and by all previous indications, JJ was a favorite of Matt as well. I still think there is something more that just the usual teen surliness going on when it comes to how JJ is reacting to Gathan.

 

Some seem to indicate that just because JJ has taken up skating and maybe moving into the upper echelon, he is going to automatically become bitchy and diva like. I disagree completely. My personal experience has been more with gymnastics, tennis, and dance but I know people that have reached the upper echelon of all three arenas and been around them all. There are some in each area that are bitchy and do act like a diva, both male and females but for all of them; that behaviour was there before they started the sport and started moving to the top. Those people that act like that would do so if there were in those circumstances or if they were lawyers or stockbrokers. It is just part of their basic personality. Now, being in a sport like skating or gymnastics or dance may lead those behaviours to come out more or be more pronounced but they were there to start with.

 

If you go back and look at the first stories where JJ was introduced even in limited circumstances, there was none of that behaviour present and I find it strange that it is coming out now.... I just find it more plausible that JJ is just being a snarky, snarling, and surly teen than being in skating has suddenly turned him into a bitch and diva. By all indications, JJ was more than good at gymnastics and got out because there were those that exhibited just that same type of behaviour.

Edited August 27, 2011 by centexhairysub

[methodwriter85]

If you go back and look at the first stories where JJ was introduced even in limited circumstances, there was none of that behaviour present and I find it strange that it is coming out now.... I just find it more plausible that JJ is just being a snarky, snarling, and surly teen than being in skating has suddenly turned him into a bitch and diva.

Because Mark has said that JJ is now a bitch and a diva? I personally enjoy JJ being somewhat of a bitch, but then that's coming from someone who likes Poor Little Bitch Girls, such as Blair from the Facts of Life or Season 1 Blair from Gossip Girl or Blair from One Life to Live. And of course, the mother of them all, Faye Dunaway from Mommie Dearest.

 

Jeremy's never come off as cruel, just a guy who makes these little comments to get under someone's skin but in a way that, if you confront him about it, he can feign innocence. Which is...familiar for some reason I can't really think of... I think it's his way of getting attention. You say that he gets enough attention from Jeanine, Tiffany, and Matt, but I'm thinking JJ is a total attention whore. Which is very, very common in performers.

 

Plus, remember, JJ's fourteen. Very few people look back at when they were 14, and go, "Wow, I was such a mature, poised 9th grader back then!" His behavior is annoying at 14, but he's young and has plenty of life experience to go through yet. I'm thinking the disapointment at not being at the '02 Olympics as a competitor will be the first reality check he gets.

[PrivateTim]

Okay, I have to say that I did not find Scott's(Lark) behaviour in any way inappropriate. While with Will and Brad he flirted with both but you knew, if you had have a brain, that it wasn't going anywhere with either of them. Some people are just like that, they flirt with everyone from two to one hundred and two. It is an automatic natural part of who they are... Do I think that Scott/Lark would sleep with Will if Will came to him and asked, no, I don't. I think that Scott/Lark knows what Brad did in the last story and he knows what lengths Brad would go to over that. I don't think that Scott would cross that line with Will even if he was over the age of consent. Now, if Brad asked came to him; it would be a totally different answer but.......

 

Now, as to Scott masturbating in front of Will. Although at the end of the scene, Scott turns and looks to where Will is hiding, there is nothing to indicate that Scott knew who was watching him, just that someone was. Scott seems like the kind of person that would get off on knowing that someone, anyone was watching him get off. Do I believe that Scott knew it was Will, yes; but there is nothing in the story to indicate that for sure.

 

I checked with a friend of mind in the DA's office in San Diego and and friend that is a lawyer here in Texas, he used to be a assistant DA in Williamson County. Neither of those states would have prosecuted the individual as the story was written. In order to prosecute, the state would have to prove that the person masturbating knew they were being watched by someone that was under that age of the statute and knowingly performed the act while being watched. I had both of them read the chapter and they both agreed that as it is written, that a conviction would not be possible. Will was hidden and all Scott would have to do was say he never saw or didn't know who was watching him.

 

I personally did find the scene hot. I think part of my reason was because when I was twelve and starting puberty; I had a chance to watch a couple of older guys pleasure themselves in much the same way. Both were alone, both were probably twenty or thirty years older, and both knew they were being watched. It was hot for me then and it still is now. I personally wouldn't have found it any less hot if it was Marie watching then if it was Will.

 

I gather your friend in San Diego is not in the special sex crimes unit, because I have seen them prosecute on a lot less. And they also would not be able to say whether or not they would and would not prosecute because each case is different. If you have a complaining witness who sees Lark outdoors masturbating (another criminal violation, CA PC ss 314 & 647(a)) and sees that Will is watching and sees Lark turn and look in Will direction, Lark would be having a very long unpleasant conversation with detectives. The conversation would get even more interesting when they dug into Lark's background.

 

What the state would do is charge and overcharge Lark. He'd be looking at 5 years state time with a child molester jacket on him. They don't have to prove a thing because it wouldn't get to trial. Lark at a minimum would have to admit to behavior that would land him in county jail, if not state. He would not be able to deny it with a complaining witness. After stewing a couple of months on what his prospects would be in state prison, Lark would take his lawyer's advice to plead to the lower charge. That is how it goes down every day.

[centexhairysub]

I gather your friend in San Diego is not in the special sex crimes unit, because I have seen them prosecute on a lot less. And they also would not be able to say whether or not they would and would not prosecute because each case is different. If you have a complaining witness who sees Lark outdoors masturbating (another criminal violation, CA PC ss 314 & 647(a)) and sees that Will is watching and sees Lark turn and look in Will direction, Lark would be having a very long unpleasant conversation with detectives. The conversation would get even more interesting when they dug into Lark's background.

 

What the state would do is charge and overcharge Lark. He'd be looking at 5 years state time with a child molester jacket on him. They don't have to prove a thing because it wouldn't get to trial. Lark at a minimum would have to admit to behavior that would land him in county jail, if not state. He would not be able to deny it with a complaining witness. After stewing a couple of months on what his prospects would be in state prison, Lark would take his lawyer's advice to plead to the lower charge. That is how it goes down every day.

 

What I had both of them do was read this chapter and they both said that as it was written that Scott/Lark could not be prosecuted. There is nothing in the story to indicate that a third party saw what happened. It was well after dark and Will was hidden in the foliage, actually according to both, if you are on your property or in a secure area where there is an expectation of privacy; you can masturbate in the great outdoors to your hearts content.

 

P.S. The one in here in Texas did prosecute sex crimes when he worked in that office, he is now in private practice.

[Mark Arbour]

What I had both of them do was read this chapter and they both said that as it was written that Scott/Lark could not be prosecuted. There is nothing in the story to indicate that a third party saw what happened. It was well after dark and Will was hidden in the foliage, actually according to both, if you are on your property or in a secure area where there is an expectation of privacy; you can masturbate in the great outdoors to your hearts content.

 

P.S. The one in here in Texas did prosecute sex crimes when he worked in that office, he is now in private practice.

 

I think that it is unlikely that the state would take any kind of action here unless they had a really good reason to do so. In other words, if someone was pushing them to have a reason to do it, or if there was a detective with an ax to grind. Nothing like that is apparent here.

 

What I'm interested in, though, is how the lawyers reacted to reading the chapter. Are they gay?

[centexhairysub]

Hmmm... well Will and Tony Carbone, that would be sort of interesting almost coming full circle but after skipping a generation. I know with the four year difference or so in age plus the north versus south California distance it wouldn't be an immediate relationship but sort of an interesting thought. I bet that Brad's old car is gonna get a work out on the streets of the City...

 

I really like how Will and JJ's conversation went. Even though Will is younger, he started puberty earlier and I really like how he was willing to be there for JJ. It is obvious that Will is more developed physically and further into puberty than JJ but everyone matures at there own rate. LIke Will's later interaction with Darius, I always find something interesting when the brothers interact.

 

I do find it interesting as well how Will can me so mature one moment and then almost bratty the next, it is like watching someone playing ping pong with themself. I do think overall that Will is more mature than most young men his age but he still has his moment.

 

Mark, in answer to your questions about the lawyers; the one in Texas is bisexual and I already have him reading the early part of the story, he finished CAP and 1968 but hasn't started the Land Whore yet. He really liked the first one but like many of us was saddened by 1968. The one in San Diego is straight but he thought the chapter was interesting and did ask several questions to clarify issues with the chapter; he knew it was a serial so he was aware he wasn't getting the whole picture. I will say he thought it was sort of creepy that the son was watching one of his father's old lovers masturbate but I think the connection to the Brad and Scott/Lark having been intimate in the past and now Will was watching him bothered him. He didn't have an issue with the idea of a kid watching an adult masturbate. He actually said he had masturbated while he knew his son and one of his friends were watching him, although they didn't know that he knew... Damn, did that make sense???

[Daddydavek]

I hate to say it, but give 100 lawyers the same legal question and you will essentially get 100 legal opinions varying from no legal liability to complete legal liability.

 

The latest chapter of PMS has Will being a little shit prying into Pat's private life. While he entertains himself acting this way, he isn't learning boundaries or respect for other people's privacy. Even though he is a young teenager, as the employer to the employee, he is engaging in sexual harrassment and that would be chargeable and could cost dad a lot of money if an employee decided enough was enough. Will indicated his motive was to help, but his motive doesn't mitigate the legal liability for harrassment.

[Mark Arbour]

Hmmm... well Will and Tony Carbone, that would be sort of interesting almost coming full circle but after skipping a generation. I know with the four year difference or so in age plus the north versus south California distance it wouldn't be an immediate relationship but sort of an interesting thought. I bet that Brad's old car is gonna get a work out on the streets of the City...

 

I really like how Will and JJ's conversation went. Even though Will is younger, he started puberty earlier and I really like how he was willing to be there for JJ. It is obvious that Will is more developed physically and further into puberty than JJ but everyone matures at there own rate. LIke Will's later interaction with Darius, I always find something interesting when the brothers interact.

 

I do find it interesting as well how Will can me so mature one moment and then almost bratty the next, it is like watching someone playing ping pong with themself. I do think overall that Will is more mature than most young men his age but he still has his moment.

 

Mark, in answer to your questions about the lawyers; the one in Texas is bisexual and I already have him reading the early part of the story, he finished CAP and 1968 but hasn't started the Land Whore yet. He really liked the first one but like many of us was saddened by 1968. The one in San Diego is straight but he thought the chapter was interesting and did ask several questions to clarify issues with the chapter; he knew it was a serial so he was aware he wasn't getting the whole picture. I will say he thought it was sort of creepy that the son was watching one of his father's old lovers masturbate but I think the connection to the Brad and Scott/Lark having been intimate in the past and now Will was watching him bothered him. He didn't have an issue with the idea of a kid watching an adult masturbate. He actually said he had masturbated while he knew his son and one of his friends were watching him, although they didn't know that he knew... Damn, did that make sense???

 

Thanks for the info on your sources. I had this vision of you taking the chapter into a staid attorney's office, and watching them sort of squirm as they read the more salacious parts.

 

I'm glad you got the ping-pong effect for Will. My experience is that this is a trademark characteristic of teenagers: mature one minute, immature the next.

 

 

I hate to say it, but give 100 lawyers the same legal question and you will essentially get 100 legal opinions varying from no legal liability to complete legal liability.

 

The latest chapter of PMS has Will being a little shit prying into Pat's private life. While he entertains himself acting this way, he isn't learning boundaries or respect for other people's privacy. Even though he is a young teenager, as the employer to the employee, he is engaging in sexual harrassment and that would be chargeable and could cost dad a lot of money if an employee decided enough was enough. Will indicated his motive was to help, but his motive doesn't mitigate the legal liability for harrassment.

 

I think that you're being a little hard on Will. He's dealing with Pat, who is a bit of an enigma: he's an employee, an older guy, and a fellow gay guy who's growing into a friend, all in the same person. I'm not worried about the harassment issue, as I think you'd have a tough job prosecuting Will for his actions, and I just don't see Pat doing that. In the scene where they're going to the airport, Will was treating Pat like he would probably treat one of his peers. I think it's reasonable that he'd struggle for a way to interact with this guy that he likes, but also has all these other roles. And again, referencing my above comment, he's bouncing between moments of maturity and moments of immaturity. Life as a teenager isn't always easy, not that I can remember that far back.

[methodwriter85]

"I don't like porn." Good to know that JJ's incorporating the pristine, asexual image of the figure skater into his conduct. LOL. I'm glad that he's still, for the most part, pretty innocent and very much a child. The precocious sexualization of Will and John Hobart isn't unrealistic, but it's nice that we're getting another side with people who DON'T lose their virginity at 12 or 13. I'm glad that JJ watched but didn't actually partake- I don't think that would have been realistic for what we know about JJ and what we know about his relationships with his brothers.

 

 

[PrivateTim]

"I don't like porn." Good to know that JJ's incorporating the pristine, asexual image of the figure skater into his conduct. LOL. I'm glad that he's still, for the most part, pretty innocent and very much a child. The precocious sexualization of Will and John Hobart isn't unrealistic, but it's nice that we're getting another side with people who DON'T lose their virginity at 12 or 13. I'm glad that JJ watched but didn't actually partake- I don't think that would have been realistic for what we know about JJ and what we know about his relationships with his brothers.

 

I thought it a bit unrealistic that JJ hadn't seen Will's junk before. In a family of "boys" there is bound to be a casualness about dress and a lack of modesty. Morning wood happens.

[Mark Arbour]

I thought it a bit unrealistic that JJ hadn't seen Will's junk before. In a family of "boys" there is bound to be a casualness about dress and a lack of modesty. Morning wood happens.

 

I disagree. These guys have their own bedrooms with their own bathrooms. I'm trying to think of a time when they'd be naked around each other, and I'm not seeing it.

[methodwriter85]

I have to agree with Mark. This isn't a jock boy household like the Hayes family is, and we're also talking about a generation of guys who did not grow up with the mandatory junior high school gym shower with everyone under the same spigot. And so far JJ has been written as a pretty prissy guy - I imagine that if he DID have to take a shower- maybe during swimming week in gym- he'd keep his towel around his waist while he changed out of his swimsuit and put his boxers on.

 

If JJ and Will were into the same kind of sports and played on the same team together, I do think it would have been inevitable, but that hasn't been the case.

 

I think Tony can be interesting- there's a great backstory there.

[Daddydavek]

I disagree. These guys have their own bedrooms with their own bathrooms. I'm trying to think of a time when they'd be naked around each other, and I'm not seeing it.

 

 

I disagree. They live on a beach, probably with an outdoor shower which is mandatory to get rid of the sand. If it's at all secluded (and this is Malibu) I am sure they would have dropped suits and washed the sand out of their crotches. As the children of some pretty liberal parents, I can't imagine that a little casual nudity would be anything out of the ordinary!

[B1ue]

Why an outdoor shower? Why not a stone floor, tiled, or brick antechamber leading from the beach door and a shower room just off from that room? Rich as they are, and famous as Robbie is, an outdoor shower seems like a pretty big and unneeded risk.

 

I find it hard to believe JJ hadn't seen Will's dick, but for a different reason than Tim. If Brad managed to peek in on Will and Drew, why not JJ?

[methodwriter85]

Why an outdoor shower? Why not a stone floor, tiled, or brick antechamber leading from the beach door and a shower room just off from that room? Rich as they are, and famous as Robbie is, an outdoor shower seems like a pretty big and unneeded risk.

Great point. They'd probably have their own personal cabanas/shower rooms on the beach.

 

I find it hard to believe JJ hadn't seen Will's dick, but for a different reason than Tim. If Brad managed to peek in on Will and Drew, why not JJ?

 

Because Brad was curious about what sexual orientation Will had, so he was actively listening in on what went on in Will's bedroom? And JJ might have heard, but I don't know how much of an inclination he would have had to actually watch his sibling have sex. I know I sure as hell wouldn't want to watch any of my sisters having sex. Any time I heard the sounds of sex coming from my sister's room, I turned up the music on my CD player to blare music, or I turned up the television volume.

 

The other thing, that's been strongly hinted at, is that JJ has pretty much isolated himself with all the figure skating stuff, and thus he just plain wasn't paying attention with whatever is going on in Will's room because he's practicing a single stance for hours on end in his own room.

Edited August 31, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Daddydavek]

"Great point. They'd probably have their own personal cabanas/shower rooms on the beach."

 

 

 

Well they have 2 houses joined together. In all the prior stories, nothing is ever described regarding a beach level cabanna or, an outdoor shower facility/hose off area. That leads me to believe it is nothing special. But every beach side house has some such facility. Beach life is pretty casual. Whether it is peeling out of a wet suit, changing on the beach under a towel or loosing your suit in the surf, occasional nudity is not uncommon nor commented on. These kids have spent their childhood at the beach. Even if the beach wasn't their complete thing like Will or Brad, I am sure they all spent a lot of time their just chilling out, it is too enticing and mesmerizing not to. Living on a beach, you just can't ignore the waves all the time.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Daddydavek