Poor Man's Son

[B1ue]

On the other hand, I can see childhood being extended to 21 pretty easily.

[centexhairysub]

Hmmmm.... Well I am not sure how I feel about chapter 3 of this story either. As always the writing and the story itself flowed like a wonderful river meandering through a magnificient valley.

 

I like that Gathan got Will to see that maybe the deal with John wasn't all John's fault. I also liked the fact that Gathan talked to Zach and called him on the fact that he can't keep blaming what happened with Gathan for his behaviour, although I do think Gathan is at least partly to blame. I think that Zach is probably going to need some good help to re-evaluate his view of sex, love, and life...

 

I think it is great that Gathan is making Brad take a look at Will from another angle. I think that may be just as important for Brad as it is for Will and could prove to be an event that cements their bond even further.

 

Having said all of that, I do have a major issue with the scene between Gathan and Stef. I don't have a major issue with them having sex but is does bother me that Stef just glossed over how Gathan treated his first two partners. Stef made it seem like it was the fault of the others for not knowing how to handle Gathan's sexual behaviour. That comes really close to me to that old argument of it is the victims fault for what happened. It is almost like how people use to say; sure she got raped she was walking through the park in the middle of the night, what did she think was gonna happen??? Stef was able to handle and maybe even enjoyed Gathan's sexual performance but if Gathan can't stop when someone says no; that is gonna cause an issue down the line as well.

 

Now, having said that, LOL... Stef maybe trying to build Gathan up some so that he will be more willing to get help for this issue and the larger issue of his anger. I could see Stef easily using sex to guide how he want's Gathan future growth to go.

 

Although, I don't think Robbie will be as bothered by Stef and Gathan as he was about Matt and Stef with JP; I don't think he is going to like this. With Matt, no one knew the connection but with Gathan, Stef knows the connection and there is still the fact that he isn't even 18 years old yet.

 

I can easily say that this story has already intrigued me but I see some major dark clouds gathering on the horizon....

[PrivateTim]

Hmmmm.... Well I am not sure how I feel about chapter 3 of this story either. As always the writing and the story itself flowed like a wonderful river meandering through a magnificient valley.

 

I like that Gathan got Will to see that maybe the deal with John wasn't all John's fault. I also liked the fact that Gathan talked to Zach and called him on the fact that he can't keep blaming what happened with Gathan for his behaviour, although I do think Gathan is at least partly to blame. I think that Zach is probably going to need some good help to re-evaluate his view of sex, love, and life...

 

I think it is great that Gathan is making Brad take a look at Will from another angle. I think that may be just as important for Brad as it is for Will and could prove to be an event that cements their bond even further.

 

Having said all of that, I do have a major issue with the scene between Gathan and Stef. I don't have a major issue with them having sex but is does bother me that Stef just glossed over how Gathan treated his first two partners. Stef made it seem like it was the fault of the others for not knowing how to handle Gathan's sexual behaviour. That comes really close to me to that old argument of it is the victims fault for what happened. It is almost like how people use to say; sure she got raped she was walking through the park in the middle of the night, what did she think was gonna happen??? Stef was able to handle and maybe even enjoyed Gathan's sexual performance but if Gathan can't stop when someone says no; that is gonna cause an issue down the line as well.

 

Now, having said that, LOL... Stef maybe trying to build Gathan up some so that he will be more willing to get help for this issue and the larger issue of his anger. I could see Stef easily using sex to guide how he want's Gathan future growth to go.

 

Although, I don't think Robbie will be as bothered by Stef and Gathan as he was about Matt and Stef with JP; I don't think he is going to like this. With Matt, no one knew the connection but with Gathan, Stef knows the connection and there is still the fact that he isn't even 18 years old yet.

 

I can easily say that this story has already intrigued me but I see some major dark clouds gathering on the horizon....

 

The age of consent in most states is 16, 34 states have 16 as the AOC in part or entirely, only 11 have 18 in part or entirely. There are 6 with 17, 3 with 15 and 3 with 14 as the AOC. Many of these laws on the books are old and reflect a different time when marriage wasn't uncommon at 18 or younger.

 

As a side note, OH is 16, CT is 15 and NY is 17, so Mann Act considerations aside, there was nothing illegal in the acts. You can argue morality, but you'd be hard pressed on the legal side.

[methodwriter85]

It'd be illegal in California, though. And CA seeems incredibly tough on sex offenders, so I don't think Stefan would be dumb enough to have sex with a seventeen-year old in a state where it's illegal and would get him in trouble with Meghan's Law.

 

I wasn't all that bothered by it- I think at this point I've resigned myself to the fact that Mark really wants to showcase middled-aged men having sex with teenagers. I just skim through that stuff.

 

I've already got "Stacey's Mom" set aside for that inevitable moment when Will decides to have sex with some middle-aged dude in 2004-ish. I'm betting on it being Max, during some argument he's having with Tim over how they're raising their gaybies.

 

So, aside from that, is anyone else getting some major Billy Crampton vibes from Zach? The fact that he's another 15-year old football jock doesn't help much.

Edited March 21, 2011 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

It'd be illegal in California, though. And CA seeems incredibly tough on sex offenders, so I don't think Stefan would be dumb enough to have sex with a seventeen-year old in a state where it's illegal and would get him in trouble with Meghan's Law.

 

I wasn't all that bothered by it- I think at this point I've resigned myself to the fact that Mark really wants to showcase middled-aged men having sex with teenagers. I just skim through that stuff.

 

I've already got "Stacey's Mom" set aside for that inevitable moment when Will decides to have sex with some middle-aged dude in 2004-ish. I'm betting on it being Max, during some argument he's having with Tim over how they're raising their gaybies.

 

So, aside from that, is anyone else getting some major Billy Crampton vibes from Zach? The fact that he's another 15-year old football jock doesn't help much.

 

 

I know, I was talking to a friend of mine that I have gotten reading the stories; we emailed each other this afternoon and both wondered if Zach was going to resurrect the ghost of Billy... Although we haven't seen a lot of Zach, I do already see some similarities between how he is developing and how Billy ended up... That would be just too sad, I always found those chapters some of the hardest to read; Mark did such a great job of conveying the pain and heartache felt by all.

 

I also agree about Stef not being stupid enough to do something that could get him arrested. I don't know, after reading chapter 3 a third time, I am really starting to view Stef sleeping with Gathan as a major issue. With Matt, neither Stef nor JP knew who Matt was or even really how old Matt was... I have always pictured Matt as this ruggedly handsome hockey player that probably looks a couple of years older than he really is... Hockey more than almost any sport other than rugby really does age a player. Now, I know Gathan plays hockey but Stef and everyone else knows how old he is and this is just starting to seem to be a major lapse in judgement from Stef.

 

I guess to some extent I am still reserving judgement on how I feel about this story overall, the writing and development is first rate but it may just not be something I can stay with on an emotional comfort level for myself...

[Ivy]

I didn't feel as weirded out about Gathan and Steph as I would have about Will and Gathan. Steph is the male equivilent of a "cougar" for me, hot older person being with a much younger hot person. In the "real" world I don't want older men or women taking advantage of people under the age of consent, but I'm not sure who was taking advantage of who in this chapter. Steph has always believed in "sexual healing" and seen himself as somewhat of a sage in this area. He probably knows it wasn't exactly correct to have sex with Gathan and I'm not sure if they are going to come out and tell everyone what they just did, like it came out with Matt. Hopefully Steph will hook Gathan up with a therapist at some point, because his issues run way deep.

 

Also, I don't think Steph was implying that the boy/girl in question "got what they deserved", I think he was thinking more along the line of young people suck at sex their first few times when they don't know what the heck they are doing.

 

Anyway, just my opinions, I could be wrong, it usually happens at least once a day and twice on Sundays, lol.

[Mark Arbour]

I didn't feel as weirded out about Gathan and Steph as I would have about Will and Gathan. Steph is the male equivilent of a "cougar" for me, hot older person being with a much younger hot person. In the "real" world I don't want older men or women taking advantage of people under the age of consent, but I'm not sure who was taking advantage of who in this chapter. Steph has always believed in "sexual healing" and seen himself as somewhat of a sage in this area. He probably knows it wasn't exactly correct to have sex with Gathan and I'm not sure if they are going to come out and tell everyone what they just did, like it came out with Matt. Hopefully Steph will hook Gathan up with a therapist at some point, because his issues run way deep.

 

Also, I don't think Steph was implying that the boy/girl in question "got what they deserved", I think he was thinking more along the line of young people suck at sex their first few times when they don't know what the heck they are doing.

 

Anyway, just my opinions, I could be wrong, it usually happens at least once a day and twice on Sundays, lol.

 

You could be wrong, but you weren't.

[rjo]

After rereading chapter 3, I am a little surprised. Will seems to be a little more stiff than I would think he would be. However, He is a man of his word and that is a good thing to be. Zack is becoming a selfish person of course being hurt by someone you trust could do that to you. Then there is Gathan, He is becoming a more interesting and like able person. Trying to help Will, Zack and John heal their rift.and also trying to heal himself. Hopefully Stef will be able to help him do that. Of course Stef is the master so if anyone can it's Stef. One other thing is interesting about this story is that we get to see Brad from another point of view. Even Will at times thinks his dad goes to far. I also like that Gathan will not break Will's trust. I think that shows that both Will and Gathan are honorable people.

 

 

Mark at first I wasn't sure if I liked how the story was unfolding, but now I can see that even though Gathan maybe troubled, he still is a good, kind person who needs help. I am sure the guys will do just that. Is this not one of your underlying themes, the flawed hero works to heal himself. A message for us all.

[centexhairysub]

Well, Chapter 4 is up and hmmmm......

 

I loved that Will have it to his father for getting after Gathan, but am suprised that Gathan didn't/doesn't realize that he hurt Will. I have to sort of agree with Brad about Gathan sleepig with Stef though, that kind of age difference isn't as bad as Hugh Hefner and whoever his current is but is getting close...

 

Glad to see that maybe Will is going to make the first move at trying to get his friendship/relationship/whatever with John back on track but that might still have a few bumps in the road yet...

 

Can't wait for the next chapter.....

[PrivateTim]

I really enjoyed the dual narration.

 

Note to Mark and his editors, Internet should be capitalized.

 

It is nice to see the technology finally coming into the stories. The Internet and WWW became such a huge part of youths lives in the late 90's and it has just grown exponentially. The ultimate status symbol in the mid 90's wasn't a BMer or Benz, but having a T1 line to your house.

[Rad]

I think this is the first time that I read a dual narration in any of Mark's stories. Of course I've been dreading Mark's stories only from "If It Fits" so I might be wrong.

 

Regardless...I hope that Will and Gathan can be a couple. Why? Because Gathan for all his swagger is a nice person. He's...well honorable. He guards the feeling of people. He slept with Stef. Yeah, but he promised Will nothing. Will is a guy whose words are his bonds. I think Gathan is someone like that too.

 

As for John...Will's last thought bother me so much. He never apologized, never even attempt to do it. He's...well, he doesn't seem to care about Will's feelings. I hope Will's not going to end up with him. John's seduced? Well, at the VERY LEAST apologize. No matter how empty that would sound back then, it would give Will some food for thought. But John never did didn't he?

 

Gathan...should beat the shit out of Zach for ruining other people's lives. BTW I wonder if John and Zach are f**king each other ever since?

[Rad]

Glad to see that maybe Will is going to make the first move at trying to get his friendship/relationship/whatever with John back on track but that might still have a few bumps in the road yet...

 

Can't wait for the next chapter.....

 

Can't see why Will should be the one who makes the first step at repairing the friendship. He's not at fault, John is; and he never makes the first steps at repairing the friendship doesn't he?

 

NEXT chapter PLEASE!! A.S.A.P I'm dying of curiosity!

[chedder]

Zack is Clara and Wally Hayes youngest son. Wally is Robbie's cousin. John is Clair and Jack's son, Will's cousin. Gathan is Fred Hayes son. Fred is Robbie's cousin. Robbie is Brad's partner and Will's second dad. Clair is Brad's sister. It is hard fellow the CAP world sometimes with out reading the whole saga from the beginning.

 

I've read from the beginning. I guess I just haven't been thinking about Claire and Jack since the story is usually focused elsewhere.

 

On another note, Gathan/Will/Stef? It's basically like hooking up with someone, then sleeping with his grandfather. I mean really...that won't bother Will for more than a day?

[KYE]

As I read the first part of Chapter 4 I could not keep from thinking back to the story "Be Rad" with Sam, Jake, and Brad. And Brad telling Sam "So I'm wondering if you're going to try and F**k every guy I bring home. Is that what's going to happen?" Of course Will is younger than Brad was and Gathan isn't his bf but still I feel for Will trying to grow up and develop relationships surrounded by the gay male sluts in his life. And Stef did not seem to be bothered if he has hurt Will (his blood brother) with his encounter with Gathan but instead actually repeats it. JJ has already gotten mad or jealous of the time Stef has spent with Gathan. Stef even blew JJ off after he came to see him skate, to spend time with Gathan playing video games. I know JJ has acted like a diva but I think it is also natural for a guy his age to be a little jealous when a close family member that he obviously looks up to, ignores him to spend time with someone that is not a close family member. I can imagine his reaction when he finds out about Stef and Gathan screwing around. And Stef is a smart guy, but he doesn't see how this effects JJ or Will. Even though Stef and JP have an open relationship, how will he react when Stef's slutty ways effect his grandsons? This could make for some interesting drama.

 

As for Brad's concern for Will, hey I'd be concerned for Brad if he didn't get pissed off that Will gets hurt. That's part of being a father and even though mature, Will is only 13 and not that far removed from starting puberty and the kid has already been hurt by 3 guys. If he is like his dad I can imagine the poor kids bruised male ego.

 

I was a little surprised about Brad being the one to suggest Gathan see a "shrink". Brad doesn't know of Gathan's violent sex issues or that much about his personal life. Stef does, but not Brad. So why is Brad so quick to suggest counseling with so little info on Gathan?

 

Well Mark you are certainly setting this story up for major edge of your seat drama.

Edited March 26, 2011 by KYE

[Caedus]

I know Stef and JP have an open relationship, but none of you were bothered by the fact that Gathan and Stef weren't using protection the 1st time they had sex??

 

For obvious reason isn't that really irresponsible of both of them, but especially Stef?

[B1ue]

I've read from the beginning. I guess I just haven't been thinking about Claire and Jack since the story is usually focused elsewhere.

 

On another note, Gathan/Will/Stef? It's basically like hooking up with someone, then sleeping with his grandfather. I mean really...that won't bother Will for more than a day?

 

My guess is that Gathan got demoted in Will's mind from "Possible boyfriend" to "entertaining jackass." You may keep the later around for laughs, but aren't terribly surprised when they prove annoying from time to time.

 

 

RE: chapter 4, I really liked getting WIll's perspective here, and I also liked the couple lines about his relationship with JJ. I have a cousin that's my age, and we are very different people, and while around others could hardly stand one another, in private we are (and were) quite good friends. I like that JJ has someone that won't put up with his attitude, but still likes him for himself.

 

As for Brad's concern for Will, hey I'd be concerned for Brad if he didn't get pissed off that Will gets hurt. That's part of being a father and even though mature, Will is only 13 and not that far removed from starting puberty and the kid has already been hurt by 3 guys. If he is like his dad I can imagine the poor kids bruised male ego.

 

Will did call it that the reason Brad is pissed isn't so much that someone hurt his boy and more that he, Brad, has no control or clue over what's happening in Will's life. Without ever talking to Will or Gathan, and ignoring his own actions and attitudes during his own teenage years, he put expecations on Gathan's behavoir, and then got angry when the boy didn't follow the plan he mentally arranged for the two boys. And yeah, as a parent he has a right to know what's going on in his son's life, but that's not really something he should be yelling at Gathan for. He should be getting pissed at Will, and himself. He, after all, set the precedents during his own personal crisis that the kids have to deal with their own crap. It was necessary, but you can't really go back on that without getting some friction, which is exactly what's happening.

[centexhairysub]

I have to agree with the last few posters, I think that Stef is coming off as a really irresponsible person in the last few chapters. Stef for all of his actions in the past has always been aware of how is actions were going to affect others and took that into consideration. I really have to questions Stef's behaviour and how he is handling this situation.

 

I also agree that Brad should probably be concerned about Will and how he is handling not just this with Gathan but the other issues facing him. I don't know that Brad needs to be trying to fix everything but I agree with an earlier statement that I would be worried if he wasn't at least concerned about this.

 

I want Will and John to be together. I just don't see any way for Will and Gathan to together for the next couple of years. California has had very strict laws against sexual intercourse with a minor since the late 70's and they have always been diligent about enforcing them. I believe that for a male in California 16 is the age of consent so Will is a little more than two years from that... Gathan could find himself in serious trouble if he does anything with Will before that and anyone finds out, even his possible new shrink would be legally obligated to report it. I was not saying that Will had to be the one to do all the work with John, but I don't think Will ever even gave John a chance to make amends before he put up his no tresspassing sign and stopped talking. I agree that it is up to John to make amends but at least give him a chance to explain and apologize before you write him off...

 

PS. I am sure that there was dual perspectives in Bloodlines when Matt got sick and Wade started taking over narration for a while....

Edited March 26, 2011 by centexhairysub

[Mark Arbour]

I'm really enjoying all of the feedback! I'm glad that the dual characters wasn't distracting. I did it in Bloodlines, but it wasn't quite as intermittent as it is here. There the switch was a longer term fade. Then in the Box, I sort of did it in a different way. I was hoping it would turn out alright. I've read some stories where the same scene is replayed from the other person's perspective, and those just annoy me. Then there are authors (Tom Clancy comes to mind) who can seamlessly weave a tale through the eyes of several characters. I'm trying to be a little better than the first example.

[methodwriter85]

My guess is that Gathan got demoted in Will's mind from "Possible boyfriend" to "entertaining jackass." You may keep the later around for laughs, but aren't terribly surprised when they prove annoying from time to time.

I gotta agree with you here. I think Will's lost interest in Gathan as a serious romantic interest. They'll be good friends(and friends who might hook-up from time to time once we get to around 2005), but I don't see them becoming some big romance.

 

 

RE: chapter 4, I really liked getting WIll's perspective here, and I also liked the couple lines about his relationship with JJ. I have a cousin that's my age, and we are very different people, and while around others could hardly stand one another, in private we are (and were) quite good friends. I like that JJ has someone that won't put up with his attitude, but still likes him for himself.

 

The diva act was soooo common at my high school because everyone wanted to be famous. But you would frequently find that when you got behind the diva act, the performer was a pretty nice person.

 

I like the dual narration- you get the cute young teen story, and you get the serious one. I think the Will story works well as a B-plotline.

[rjo]

I must say only Mark could write one great story after another. Poor Man's Son is fast becoming the best story. The dual narrator really help the story. Before Will was Brad's clone. Now his personality is coming through. The new and improved Brad still needs a lot of work. Of course so does Gathan. I am glad Will is giving John a second chance. I hope Zack will not be the new Brian.

Edited March 26, 2011 by rjo

[Rad]

I am glad Will is giving John a second chance. I hope Zack will not be the new Brian.

 

I hope Zach will not be Brian too...so he won't be "put down"...that was one of the regrets I have Brian went to the dark side.

As for John, why pick a two-timer who never said sorry when you can get an honest guy?

[Mark Arbour]

I hope Zach will not be Brian too...so he won't be "put down"...that was one of the regrets I have Brian went to the dark side.

As for John, why pick a two-timer who never said sorry when you can get an honest guy?

 

Because people sometimes make mistakes, and loving someone means you forgive them (at least once or twice)

[PrivateTim]

d

I have to agree with the last few posters, I think that Stef is coming off as a really irresponsible person in the last few chapters. Stef for all of his actions in the past has always been aware of how is actions were going to affect others and took that into consideration. I really have to questions Stef's behaviour and how he is handling this situation.

 

I also agree that Brad should probably be concerned about Will and how he is handling not just this with Gathan but the other issues facing him. I don't know that Brad needs to be trying to fix everything but I agree with an earlier statement that I would be worried if he wasn't at least concerned about this.

 

I want Will and John to be together. I just don't see any way for Will and Gathan to together for the next couple of years. California has had very strict laws against sexual intercourse with a minor since the late 70's and they have always been diligent about enforcing them. I believe that for a male in California 16 is the age of consent so Will is a little more than two years from that... Gathan could find himself in serious trouble if he does anything with Will before that and anyone finds out, even his possible new shrink would be legally obligated to report it. I was not saying that Will had to be the one to do all the work with John, but I don't think Will ever even gave John a chance to make amends before he put up his no tresspassing sign and stopped talking. I agree that it is up to John to make amends but at least give him a chance to explain and apologize before you write him off...

 

PS. I am sure that there was dual perspectives in Bloodlines when Matt got sick and Wade started taking over narration for a while....

 

I see Stef as Mark's surrogate. I understand the need at his age to have the illusion that you can still can get wood and perform

 

CA AOC is 18, but please.... there was so much sex happening in the days of Prodigy and AOL and the authorities didn't get wind of 99.999999999999999999% of it. It has only gotten more so that way in the world of Stickam and Cam4. The odds of being caught when you hook up with someone you don't know from online are remote. With someone you actually know it is even remoter and there would need to be someone to make a complaint. Who is going to complain to the authorities? I knew a guy that was 23 dating a junior in high school and the parents of the 'kid' knew the boyfriend, loved him and were thrilled their son was dating someone mature & responsible. Welcome to California.

 

I hope Zach will not be Brian too...so he won't be "put down"...that was one of the regrets I have Brian went to the dark side.

As for John, why pick a two-timer who never said sorry when you can get an honest guy?

 

Ummmm, John is 12. What does a 12 year old know about commitments and how able is he to keep them especially when hit upon by a 14 year old. Does he even know he should apologize?

Edited March 26, 2011 by PrivateTim

[Rad]

Ummmm, John is 12. What does a 12 year old know about commitments and how able is he to keep them especially when hit upon by a 14 year old. Does he even know he should apologize?

 

When you were 12 I'm sure you knew when you should apologize. When I was 12 I knew that too.

Knowing and too afraid to do it are two different things. Which one is John? As I said, I'd prefer to see Will ending up with Gathan

[PrivateTim]

When you were 12 I'm sure you knew when you should apologize. When I was 12 I knew that too.

Knowing and too afraid to do it are two different things. Which one is John? As I said, I'd prefer to see Will ending up with Gathan

 

Sorry at 12 you don't know dank about relationships.

 

It isn't like breaking a lamp or shaving the cat.