Comment on my Sexuality

[Mal]

So here we go. New here, and need a place to get a few things off my chest. I am married, 21, bisexual as far as I know(never experience gay) and a father. I think I am more attracted to men.I like women, and they arouse me too, but when i imagine it being a guy, it seems so more intense, and it stirrs more emotion from me. I findmore women on the street attractive than men, but my feelings are stronger for men usually. I don't know how to figure that out. I don't know if I could be in a relationship with a guy. i like the idea, but have a hard time envisioning it. I like the male organs better than the female ones by far too. i am all sorts of confused. Some input would be nice. Nice to meet you all by the way.

[Andrew Q Gordon]

Wow you really go for broke on your first post don't you

 

Couple things come to mind:

 

If you are married with a child, you have a few other responsibilities to factor that complicate this some what. "Finding out" requires experimenting with someone other than your wife. Will she mind? Probably impossible to tell. If you've never been with a guy, you probably never told her about your desire for men. Or then again maybe you know her feeling on extra marital affairs already.

 

There are so many different ways to answer this but this might be the best I can come up with. I had a friend - died of cancer recently - who spent twenty some years married, raised two kids before admitting he was gay. Told his wife - who was almost 50 at the time - and kids and ended up - in his words - ruining her life. She was bitter that at age 50 she had to start over again. They'd married in college, kids, house etc. For him there was this enormous sense of guilt and regret - guilt because despite like me and 'dick' as he put it - he still had feeling for her after all those years. Regret because he felt he missed out on being 'young and cute' [not that I think he was ever cute, but we let him have his fantasy].

 

If you think you really prefer men to women, are you going to 'stray' and hook up on the side? That's dangerous for her - health wise, for you -depending on your career - it can be an issue if you meet someone you like who likes you back but doesn't want to be the 'other woman' so to speak. Will they out you publicly? Will they stalk you? Will they tell your family? Or will they just not be willing to put up with seeing you only when you have time?

 

If you prefer men but are married will you be truly happy?

 

My suggestion is try to figure out what you really want. Yes it will suck to tell the wife, 'honey, I'm sorry but I'm really gay' but it would be better to do it sooner than later. The longer you two build a life together, raise the child(ren) together etc, the harder it will be for her to accept and to move on. Just as my friend regretted the missed opportunities of youth, so too did his wife.

 

If however, you feel you want to be with your wife and be faithful and satisfied, then I suggest you just focus on that and try to ignore the other. Finding men attractive could be no different that finding other people attractive besides your spouse. Just because they get you excited doesn't mean you have to sleep with them.

 

Good luck whatever you decide, you have some difficult choices to make.

 

Andy

[Tara00]

I agree with most or all of what Andy said.

 

For me, I get more emotional than practical when a kid is in the picture. And going by your age, I'm sure you have a very young kid. So right now is not the right time to 'experiment' since you have responsibilities to take care of too. You aren't even a single father. You are married and it does count whether you are completely into it or not. It's a commitment and will continue to be so till you legally get out of it.

 

But from Andy's friend's experience, if you aren't truly happy, you should find the right time (which should be soon but not very soon) to break it with her. I assume no one in their right mind is ever 'okay' with their spouses having extra marital affairs.

 

To be with someone because you feel guilty is not a good reason. I f you care for her, leave her when you feel she's in the mind set to accept the decision. She's young like you are, and she can find the will (and men) to move on. You can't have everything at once. You have to sometimes let somethings go to get others.

 

Also, just because you haven't got the opportunity (for lack of a good word) to be with men, you can't decide your sexuality. Sometimes it's our minds that sway. You got to be sure before you take drastic steps and ruin your comfortable married life.

 

Because you seek an opinion, I'm giving you one. Do not cheat on your wife. That's just not fair to her and to women in general and a man has got to be man enough to admit what he wants. You don't want the guilt of hurting someone.

 

Your situation doesn't feel like an out and out gay situation. You are mostly bi. Fantasising and actually doing it are very different things. I hope you figure it out.

 

Tara

[thatboyChase]

I am married, 21,

 

 

 

hahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh

[MikeL]

Andy and Tara have both given you some important points to consider. I would add two things. How important are your wedding vows to you? You remember the words; what did you promise to do? If you are married, sex with anyone other than your spouse is adultery. Gender is not a factor in that consideration...not the gender of your spouse nor the gender of the other person.

 

Who will be hurt by your decision? There's you, your wife, and your child. What relationship will you have with your child if you and your spouse divorce? How will the other person be affected by a short relationship that you decide to end because of your conflicting emotions?

 

It's not an easy decision and I have probably not been much help. But it is a decision which deserves long and sincere contemplation on your part.

 

Now here's the kicker. This little bit of advice comes from a straight man who has never faced the situation you have before you. I can't envy you; I can only wish you the best.

 

One more thing: Ignore Chase.

[JamesSavik]

I simply can't get how someone would get to 21 and finally be having these questions AFTER getting married and popping out a baby.

 

I knew very early on and didn't need an instruction manual.

 

I'm guessing that you've been in a lot of denial. Probably a lot of hyper-masculine behaviors and perhaps there is some oylde tyme religion lurking in the background?

 

I can't tell you to just be yourself, you'll figure it out. You've already made serious life-choices that involve other people.

 

What I will tell you is that you have a child and you owe it to him/her to be a stand up guy.

 

And YES Chase is right. 21 is much too young to get married. You are a prime example of why. How can you make a life-long commitment when you don't even know yourself?

[Former Member]

There's nothing much I can add that hasn't already been mentioned by the three wise men (and ladies) above.

Though I will say, you're not alone with this issue, there are many other guys out there, men and women, who find themselves in a similar predicament. Trying to define themselves 'sexually'. The truth is that the majority of us are neither completely straight, nor completely gay, most are somewhere along the spectrum.

I'd place myself somewhere close to you, bisexual leaning male, I have had past relationships with girls, physically we were fine, but emotionally we just didn't gel well together.

 

I would though, try to come sort of closure on this as early as you can, if left to linger, it could cause a lot of issues like resentment between you and your wife in your later years, maybe going to see a counsellor or something is an idea, posting this thread was a good step in the right direction.

Good luck, and welcome to GA

[SCarlin]

Wow.

 

Well, as I read through your post, my thoughts refelcted, for the most part, those of others who have responded. That is, until I read your little throw-away statement that, imagining being with guys, "stirrs more emotion from me."

 

OK, so at 23, having had moderate sexual experience with women and minimal with men, I considered myself a bisexual. I could respond and function sexually with either sex and was spending WAY too much time trying to convince myself that this was, after all, the best and most natural of sexual orientations. Actually I was an absolutely "confus-ed" sexual and once I realized that while I was an equal opporunity copulator, my emotional response was to men, my path cleared and I began the journey to self-acceptance as a Gay man. Granted, I was single and had not spawned.

 

I don't share the opinion that this can be handled lile any other extra-marital attraction, but regardless, I do believe that you need to share whatever it is you're going through with your spouse. Over the last 30 years, I have known couples in this situation who have chosen to stay together, living separate sexual lives and I have known couples that split. But in both instances, they had the maturity to work it out, realizing their responsibility to and for their children and now, with enough time passed to evaluate, they did a good job.

 

You're so young! It won't be easy, but it most likely won't just "go away," and will only get more difficult and damaging to all concerned the longer it stays hidden. So there it is, an opinion - a judgement even. Well, I'm old

[Mal]

Thank you all for your input.

 

First off, she knows about me, and we are working to be together. I talk to a therapist and whatnot. Plus, she wants me to figure it out so she doesnt have to worry anymore. I understand you have to look at it differently with a child in the picture, but at the same time I need to be happy too. I'm just torn between what will make me happy. I think it's okay for a while, but the same issues creep up again.

 

I agree that 18 is too young to marry(when I did). And yesjames, i was in denial. I suppressed a lot of things for quite a while. And no I didn't go hyper masculine, and I didn't hate gays or anything, and have been an atheist since 17. I agree that I need to be a standup guy. There will be no running around on my wife. If that bridge is crossed, that is one we will do together. I also understand there are no perfectly defined versions of sexuality. I just feel like there is no right choice. The feedback is nice. Feels good to discuss it. Thank you everyone.

[TetRefine]

A prime example of why people should not get married before their late 20s/early 30s.

 

That being said, I wish you the best of luck.

[Bleu]

A lot of good advice has been given already. Honesty and commitment to your family should be your main concerns, but of course if you suffer too much from your situation then you need to consider making some changes, however painful they may be.

 

I don't want to play Dr Phil here, but there was one thing that struck me in the way you described your situation. Not so much in what you said, but rather in what you didn't say: you didn't say one word about your wife, about what you feel for her, about what she represents in your life.

 

Each person is different, of course, but while I was married, I was deeply in love with my wife, and that was enough to satisfy me. Although we both knew that I leaned more towards men, it was completely irrelevant because I would not have thought of cheating on her.

 

So I guess the question you need to ask yourself is whether you love her... or, as MikeL puts it "How important are your wedding vows to you?", what do they truly mean?

 

 

[Mal]

I don't know these days. I am more irritated with her than not these days. I am a person who loves learning and knowledge, and she loves star magazine and keeping up with the kardashians. I feel like I love her. She is cute, does the cutest things that make me laugh, and she loves me. We just don't really like eachother lately. I feel she doesnt share any of my passions, and she is content to achieve a nice house and nice things, while I hate materialism and buying nice things for its own sake. I don't want to leave her though. I already hurt her, and it tears me up. I care for her and want her to be happy. But the fighting, the doubt and insecurity about my sexuality(which apparently is warranted, but it makes it harder/hurt more when she doesnt trust me with these issues), are taking its toll. I want to be with someone who can keep an intelligent conversation, thinks of things bigger than themselves, and has at least some of the same interests as me. I feel like I need more in the relationship, but I don't want to leave either. We have agreed to move to college together, and assuming I get my phd there too, thats ten years of seeing my son without interruption. At the same time, I want to learn piano, I want to get in shape and further myself. I want to explore the world and myself. And i feel trapped, not able to really do these things. So I feel like its all one big clusterf*** with no right answer, and pain no matter what happens. I feel like I might be happier in the long run if we split, but i also fear that being the wrong decision, and causing more harm than good. So there is that lost factor for you.

[Graeme]

Hi,

 

I really need to do a detailed post on this because... I'm married, gay, with kids But I'm rushed at the moment so I'm going to direct you to an essay I wrote on this subject after I came out to my wife:

 

Being married and gay

 

The situation is not identical to yours because you've said you're already working with your wife. Please feel free to email or PM me if you want any details - this is one subject where being open and honest is necessary, even when it comes to private details. The only thing I won't tell you is identifying information.

 

:hugs: I know what you're going through. It took me until I was almost forty one before I accepted myself so you're twenty years ahead of me

[Canuk]

from your last post it looks like you are trying to resolve too many issues at once. hopefully your therapist will help resolve that. if you split from your wife, life will go on, it will be difficult but it doesn't sound like "easy" is the current descriptor you'd use for your marital situation.

 

Commentators who said "you got married too young"; ignore them. The age at which a person marries has NO bearing on the likelihood of a happy marriage. Personally I was married at 21 and had 15+ great years. I now have children in their late 20's and that's blood marvellous.

 

I can see that you feel you made a "wrong" decision" and you're now fearful of making another - all you can do is do what you did when you made that first decision: with what you currently know what is the best decision I can make now?

 

remember hindsight is always 20/20 and never have regrets - they just waste time.

[TetRefine]

Commentators who said "you got married too young"; ignore them. The age at which a person marries has NO bearing on the likelihood of a happy marriage. Personally I was married at 21 and had 15+ great years. I now have children in their late 20's and that's blood marvellous.

 

Actually, its a statistical fact that the earlier you marry, the more chance there is of your marriage failing. The age of divorce is significantly higher for those who marry under 25. Divorce Rates By Age.

[Graeme]

from your last post it looks like you are trying to resolve too many issues at once. hopefully your therapist will help resolve that. if you split from your wife, life will go on, it will be difficult but it doesn't sound like "easy" is the current descriptor you'd use for your marital situation.

 

Sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree. All of those issue stem from the same cause. I know -- been there.

 

I was lucky when I came out to my wife that I had two other married gay men to go to for support. Both are now divorced - one very acrimoniously. I'm still married, but I'm very much the exception to the rule in this situation.

 

Reading between the lines, I can see what's happening. As I see it, you need answers to the following questions:

 

1. Do you want to stay with your wife? Your posts above indicate you still don't know the answer to that one. That's one of two big questions that will determine what happens next.

 

2. What are you prepared to give up to stay with your wife? That's the other big question. Life and relationships mean compromise. In a mixed-orientation marriage, there's a lot more compromise than in most relationships. In my case, my wife allows me to have a 'gay life', but it's strictly platonic. The Internet is my 'gay release' and I can assure you, we all need one. My wife finds that to be a safe release for her and that's her compromise - accepting that I'm gay and that means I can't deny that part of me. My compromise is to be true to my marriage vows. Okay, that doesn't sound like much of a compromise on my side, but I assure you it is. I want a boyfriend; someone to hold and to love. I can't have one. My love for my wife is not primarily sexual - I would never want to hurt her again (not like I hurt her when I came out) and I do love her deeply, but it's not a sexual love. My wife doesn't understand me, but she accepts me and loves me. That's enough for me, but it's not necessarily enough for you.

 

3. Does your wife want to stay with you? You've indicate stress in your relationship (I had enough in mine when I came out) but do you know if she knows the answer to that question? The fact that you're talking means she'd like to, but she's probably unsure - just as unsure as you are. It takes two to have a relationship, so the answers to question 1 and 3 have to be both "Yes" is your marriage is to have any chance to survive.

 

4. What is she prepared to give up to stay with you? In many ways this is even more important than the questions above. The counsellor who helped my wife warned her that some wives compromise themselves out of existence to keep their husbands. That's unhealthy. Other wives are not able to compromise enough to give the husband breathing space. I will emphasise what I said above, if you're attracted to men, you will need some sort of release to allow you up cope! That release does not have to mean infidelity. It could be porn. It could be an online community (though that has its own challenges - PM me if you want some details). If you and she can not find a mutually acceptable compromise, your relationship won't survive.

 

5. How much does she understand? The counsellor who worked with my wife was brutally honest - and she needed to be. Deceptions, even to try to spare the other person, will only hurt more in the long term. The counsellor told my wife of some of the women she had dealt with (she was a counsellor who specialised in helping women who had found out that their husbands were gay). She mentioned the husbands with the boyfriend on the side. She mentioned married men visiting places for anonymous sex (certain parks, toilet blocks, gay sex-on-premise establishments). She told my wife about how strong the urge for gay sex can be to a married gay man (based on real people she'd counselled). As an aside, she got into that business via counselling AIDS victims. When she found out that a number of them were married, she asked who was counselling the wives?

 

On a very personal note, honesty is critical in this situation, but honesty taken too far is cruelty. One of the books the counsellor recommended for my wife to read had the story of the husband who confessed to all his gay affairs on his death bed. He was relieved and relaxed when he died - leaving behind a devastated wife and family. In my case, my wife has told me that she does not want to know what goes through my mind when we have sex. It's a balancing act - you must be prepared to answer questions honestly without going too far, too fast.

 

Good luck and best wishes.

[Bleu]

Thanks for providing us with more background information on your situation.

 

Take your time to ponder the advice that was given above. Graeme's lengthy response is very helpful because it allows to see both sides of the situation: if you are to come out to your wife and want to preserve the future, you will have to deal with this together, as a couple.

[MJ85]

You've mentioned that you feel that there is no right choice.

 

Sadly ... you are correct. There isn't a purely "right" choice. Keep in mind, though, that that does not mean that you will make the wrong choice, whether you choose to stay with her or not. What it does mean is...over the long run, there will be pain, and hurt, no matter what you choose to do - the only thing that varies is who suffers the pain and hurt...and that someone may be you.

 

This fact is something that you will simply have to accept. Being able to accept that will keep you from being "boxed in", emotionally, between your confusion over your feelings for men and your being married to a woman and having a child with her. It'll keep you from being "boxed in" between those two things, whether you choose to end your relationship with her, or whether you choose to stay with her.

 

I noticed you said you are working to be together...but you didn't say that you two were in (marriage) counseling, only that you were seeing a therapist (which is good in any case). If you and her aren't currently in marriage counseling...I'd strongly suggest that you two seek it out, as soon as possible.

[Graeme]

I noticed you said you are working to be together...but you didn't say that you two were in (marriage) counseling, only that you were seeing a therapist (which is good in any case). If you and her aren't currently in marriage counseling...I'd strongly suggest that you two seek it out, as soon as possible.

 

A warning - one of the married gay men who helped me when I came out had been to counselling, but it was the wrong type of counselling. The counsellor my wife saw mentioned one of her clients had also previously had counselling, but it wasn't effective because they never asked a simple question - what was the gender of the person the husband had had an affair with. The wife couldn't say it was another man, and the counsellor had just assumed that the husband had had an affair with another woman. That resulted in a lot of wasted time and effort.

 

This is very much a specialist area. Most marriage counsellors wouldn't know how to deal with a situation where one of members of a marriage has an attraction to the same sex. If at all possible, find a counsellor who specialises in this area - it made a huge difference to us.

 

My wife rang the local gay/lesbian hotline, looking for help. They put her onto the Bi-Victoria website and from there we got the recommendation as to which counsellor to use. Try the same thing in your area. I know there are counsellors who specialise in this area in other countries because I remember seeing a media report of one such counsellor in the USA They're not easy to find, but they'll be able to help deal with precisely the right issues.

[thatboyChase]

Andy and Tara hve both given you some important points to consider. I would add two things. How important are your wedding vows to you? You remember the words; what did you promise to do? If you are married, sex with anyone other than your spouse is adultery. Gender is not a factor in that consideration...not the gender of your spouse nor the gender of the other person.

 

Who will be hurt by your decision? There's you, your wife, and your child. What relationship will you have with your child if you and your spouse divorce? How will the other person be affected by a short relationship that you decide to end because of your conflicting emotions?

 

It's not an easy decision and I have probably not been much help. But it is a decision which deserves long and sincere contemplation on your part.

 

Now here's the kicker. This little bit of advice comes from a straight man who has never faced the situation you have before you. I can't envy you; I can only wish you the best.

One more thing: Ignore Chase.

 

oh mike haters gon hate, i just think it isn't worth it, 20's are important, gotta find yourself or something cheesy like that, not get married and go on LOCK DOWN~~~~~~~~~~~See this dude committed himself, now he is 110% for this girl, adding on so many extra troubles and woes he might not want. She might not communicate as well, to busy Kardashing it. I has a point somewhere

 

personally, im 21, so we can relate right. you mentioned pHD, i am not in that bracket but i don't care. IMO, the chick makes shit hard i feel you, plus i guess the kid too or whatever that is. but, to be happy you must do what you love and f**k what you like. so find that out or else you'll just be mentally buttscrewing yourself i think you're probably just attracted to the power of man, muscles, masculinity, penis. The penis is beautiful vagina is terrifying like c'thulu. so I understand that. I so like men, but women are so beautiful, I think tits are great, their hair, how soft their skin is. But at night I'd rather be sticking it in a dude and asking him to flex his pecs for me or something.

 

so its what you like + making sure you don't retard anything with your lady/son etc etc and make sure you yourself are feeling good about yourself. if you need counseling refer to graeme's lengthy post, cause he has been there done that/still doing that sorta thing. but remember, being sexually happy is a big ol' thang even if people like to lie to themselves and say it isn't.

 

@tetrefine: i like when we secretly agree its rally sexay.

[Cia]

Well now... stop hating on early marriage. For some, it is right. I got married at 19 after 3 years with my hubby and living together for over a year. We have our 11th wedding anniversary on the 16th. We're happy... most of the time. Sexuality is a huge thing to come between a couple. I'm bi, I told him that before but I really think he discounted it. I had been with girls before him though and decided that it wasn't gender for me, it was the person. The 'emotional connection' you talk about, Malevolent, was what drew me and it just happened to be with a man. You obviously had that connection with your wife at some point, so why has it disappeared?

 

The difficult thing is that you have these thoughts that you aren't happy with your wife, and what if that is because she's not just the wrong person but the wrong gender? Look, I had some weird parental mixes growing up and the biggest thing I took away from that is NOT that you have to stay married for your child to have a good home life, but you have to stay HAPPY. You can't stay with your wife just for your child, it won't work that way and the unhappiness will definitely affect them. Staying married is not always the answer, as sad as it is to have your family break up.

 

As a bi-woman, a mother, and a wife... I urge you to communicate with your wife about all of your thoughts. If you can't do it on your own, look for a couples counselor or see if your counselor will be willing to do some sessions with you both as well as you individually. You both have to come to terms with this issue because for the rest of your life, you will be with your wife even if you aren't WITH her. Understanding how you feel, how she feels, and what you can both do to be happy is important.

 

Fo most of us, we believe you get one shot at 'life'. You deserve to be happy but you have made commitments to other's happiness now as well. Really think about every consequence your actions will have. Talk them over with your wife, with a counselor, with your family. Deciding you can't be with your wife because you want to be with men will probably then face you directly into the situation of 'coming out'. That's a whole 'nother ball of wax as well. Please make sure you don't act on your feelings unil you are sure of them.

[Mal]

Most of what has been said has been done. We are communicating. I've told her all these things. We both talk to a counselor, and she specializes in gay issues, so it is the right kind of counseling. Not really marriage counseling, because we talk to her at seperate times(thereapist is in Holland), but she gives us both issues to talk about and steps to take together. Also, I already came out. Everybody knows and there aren't really any issues in that area. As to happiness, I am happy but I'm not happy. I've had a pretty shitty childhood, and unresolved issues throughout my teen years coupled with an emotionally abusive house at my mothers. I don't think I've ever really been happy, and this is an issue my counsellor and I are working on. The only issue is I have no comparison for what a happy life should be like. I can't imagine walking around with positive thoughts and not having a negative outlook on life in general. So it's hard to think things completely through without the whole picture available. Our dependency on eachother is part of why we got married, because we both came from effed up homes, and were looking to eachother to heal ourselves and fill a void, when that expectation is unrealistic. Now we don't know if we want to stay together because of our fear of being alone. We know we want to stay together for our child, but I also know that the unhappiness affects the child. Thank you all for your feedback, and Chase, I think you are right for the most part. I should do what makes me happy If we didn't have a kid, we more than likely would have split. Also, the c'thulu reference made me lol. Once again, thank you everyone for commenting.

[Graeme]

It sounds like you're on the right track What I mean by that is that it's likely from what you've said that your wife and you will find the best answers to the issues facing you. I can't say if that means separating or staying together, but as far as I can tell you're doing the right things to find the 'right' answers. You're also thinking of more than just yourselves, which I think is excellent.

 

Well done and good luck to all of you.

[MikeL]

hahahahahahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh

 

 

One more thing: Ignore Chase.

 

 

oh mike haters gon hate, i just think it isn't worth it, 20's are important, gotta find yourself or something cheesy like that, not get married and go on LOCK DOWN

 

Chase, there's no hate here. I was just surprised that you would laugh at someone just because they married early.

 

I can't really give any good advice about marrying young. I was in my late twenties...just a few weeks short of my 29th birthday when I got married. We've been married 41 years now and it's been great.

 

Again, my best wishes to any young person who is dealing with such a daunting set of problems.

[TetRefine]

@tetrefine: i like when we secretly agree its rally sexay.

 

Lolz. .....