naaz Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Did Will mail those pictures or simply stored them in the computer? I'm rather fogged on this. And, I don't think he planned on being AWOL for a long period of time, I hope he makes it unscathed out of Hawaii. It would be real crazy if he ends up with the parents again, since they've proven themselves to be totally incapable of raising children 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ85 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Jeez, angry young man!! This all could have been avoided with just showing a little more love and affection. Now we have a wild kid on our hands...'scuse me, angry irrational wild kid! I was afraid this would happen, but I admit I too was shocked at the violence! I think his running away is a big mistake...he should have gone to Stephan. Will is not seeing things realistic right now, and resulting in thoughts and actions that are not very rational. The first time he gets ripped off in Hawaii he's going to wish he were back home, even if only to face the wrath of his angry fathers... He doesn't appreciate the fact he's only fifteen and a target for a lot of nasty predators. Street smarts come after some heavy lessons...my experiences have told me that much... I think the marine got some of what he deserved back, although there may be consequences for Will about that later. I'm talking about the roofies...I don't think you can use an illegal drug even in one's own defense. Will is going to have problems about this whole episode, because of his Paris incident, because of this marine jerk-off, plus his dad's indifference. He needs help and right soon, and I wish his dad or Robbie would get a clue. Stephan will be apoplectic when he sees the pictures...that marine will be lucky to be alive or even in one piece when he gets done with him! Well done, Mark...another great chapter from a great writer! You're assuming Stef would just leave Will in Hawaii alone once Will lets him know he's there. I'd imagine that he'd want to go get Will to ensure his safety first, then go after the "marine" with blood on his mind. (I put marine in quotes because, how would it be if it turned out Martin was really a complete fraud? Just a random, and maybe a wild, thought...) It would be real crazy if he ends up with the parents again, since they've proven themselves to be totally incapable of raising children Yeah, I do think they deserve to have their parental rights stripped away, either effectively (as in, Will's able to be separated from them for a time) or legally (the latter requiring much more effort; may be less likely). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermetically Sealed Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I do think they deserve to have their parental rights stripped away, either effectively (as in, Will's able to be separated from them for a time) or legally (the latter requiring much more effort; may be less likely). As completely baffled as I am on how Brad and Robbie have been written in this story, there is honestly no realistic end to this other than them being relieved of parental responsibilities at the suggestion of the family. Despite always being shown to be big on compassion and family (even if occasionally needing to be reminded that they do have one), for some reason they have completely turned a 180 in this story, becoming caricatures of the evil step parent variety. Unless the rest of the family has somehow also taken leave of their previous morals, removing the kids from their care is the only option that should make sense. No family meeting or therapy session could conceivably retcon this mess. Edited April 24, 2012 by Hermetically Sealed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateTim Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) The only thing Brad and Robbie have done so far as I can tell is be too permissive. If I had pulled a stunt when I was 13 like he did in Paris, I'd still be grounded. They might be a little clueless as to Will's lashing out is a symptom of deeper issues than ordinary teen angst, but I would never have gotten away with speaking to my parents like that in high school, or certainly not my freshman year. I would have lost privileges a lot sooner than Will did. I don't think LA family court is going to find "taking away the credit cards" as a reason for termination of parental rights. Brad and Robbie haven't done anything wrong in the eyes of a social worker. Being a distracted parent isn't what you call a major offense compared to the babies with cigarette burns, kids with strap marks and broken bones. Everyone needs to get a grip about Brad and Robbie's shortcomings in the real world. Just because Will has a mad on no court is going to take away custody. Will is supposed to be this smart, mature kid. Even at my worst, "woe is me", angsty teen moment did I ever doubt my parents loved me. I believed them misguided, ill equipped to guide the direction of my life, unreasonable and down right mean at times (why else wouldn't they let me go skiing with the seniors from the team when I was a freshman if it wasn't just to be mean), but never did I doubt their love based on everything else. It took a while, but I came to understand they had been right usually. Edited April 25, 2012 by PrivateTim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddydavek Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 The chapter was an explosion powered by a long festering fuse with the ignition by Martin physically beating Will and reawakening the trauma of his kidnapping and rape. I get that. I also get that parents who actually love their kids instead of treating them like a power trip could have avoided all this. I expect that the family consequences on the paternal figures will be far more severe than the physical damage Will did to their cars, clothes and bedroom. I don't agree that they will legally lose their parental rights. In this family, when Stef and J.P get done with them, there will be a family resolution and Will will probably be living in Paly. This family is rich and powerful enough to take care of things internally without overly involving the law. The 'so-called' child psychologist will likewise be dealt with and hopefully never practice his brand of 'child' care again. Stef is not one to be crossed. J.P. isn't either. This incident will definitely cause them to take action. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermetically Sealed Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 I don't think the state would care, but it is the solution I see the family pushing, "Until Brad and Robbie can pull their heads out of their asses." Whichever solution most coddles Will, and demonizes Brad and Robbie will be the one chosen I'm sure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sat8997 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 A note on chapter 31.... This was originally a lot more intense, but with some excellent advice from my team, I toned it down a bit. I'd portrayed Will as psychotic, rather than enraged, and needed to be just a bit calmer. One part that I trimmed was Will cutting the shoes in half, but Sharon liked that part, so I put it back in. She usually gets what she wants. The first draft was awesome! But seriously over the top. The shoes had to stay. The only thing better than the shoes is Stef yelling. Teenagers are incredible creatures. Not too long ago, I made a midnight run to our local convienence store and bought every pack of Nerds they had on their shelf because that was the only thing my in the middle of a PMS meltdown daughter wanted. And after several hours of her alternately crying at her father every time he looked at her and snapping at me just for breathing, making that trip was well worth the late night drive. Cutting shoes in half made perfect sense. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ85 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Yeah, I agree that dealing with this in-house...er, in-family, is much more likely. I only said "either effectively or legally" because, well, in a series that has seen some pretty wild turns at times...who knows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B1ue Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 Brad and Robbie haven't done anything wrong in the eyes of a social worker. Being a distracted parent isn't what you call a major offense compared to the babies with cigarette burns, kids with strap marks and broken bones. Everyone needs to get a grip about Brad and Robbie's shortcomings in the real world. Just because Will has a mad on no court is going to take away custody. Will is supposed to be this smart, mature kid. Even at my worst, "woe is me", angsty teen moment did I ever doubt my parents loved me. I believed them misguided, ill equipped to guide the direction of my life, unreasonable and down right mean at times (why else wouldn't they let me skiing with the seniors from the team when I was a freshman if it wasn't just to be mean), but never did I doubt their love based on everything else. It took a while, but I came to understand they had been right usually. Taking away credit cards, no, that's not major. I'd have expected that, really. And right up until that creep backhanded Will, I thought his plan to escape was a bit too dramatic. Not after. There's a difference between spanking and child abuse, but he crossed it, by one backhanding Will, two by the offense being completely out of proportion to the punishment, and three by adding an uneccessary sexual degredation. Granted, it surprised him as much as it did Will, but it was still uncalled for. There are plenty of kids that wouldn't have shown even as much restraint as Will did. They'd have just killed him. I don't know if I would; the possiblity is there, but I like to think I'd have thought ahead through possible consequences, and just sucked it up until the situation went away. But I'm not totally certain. I did like knives at that point in my life, and didn't have a strong sense of scale myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmike1969 Posted April 24, 2012 Share Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) Come to think of it, Isn't "Scott Slater" (Lark) running around with his surf shop nearby? I am sure Will's Excellent Adventure is going to be cut short once he hits the first place that sells surfboards. Edited April 24, 2012 by mmike1969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuk Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 A note on chapter 31.... ........ but Sharon liked that part, so I put it back in. She usually gets what she wants. In my experience, as humble as it may be, the Sharons on this world usually do!!! and it is why the world continues on its course (last bit added to avoid being banned from GA!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateTim Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Taking away credit cards, no, that's not major. I'd have expected that, really. And right up until that creep backhanded Will, I thought his plan to escape was a bit too dramatic. Not after. There's a difference between spanking and child abuse, but he crossed it, by one backhanding Will, two by the offense being completely out of proportion to the punishment, and three by adding an uneccessary sexual degredation. Granted, it surprised him as much as it did Will, but it was still uncalled for. There are plenty of kids that wouldn't have shown even as much restraint as Will did. They'd have just killed him. I don't know if I would; the possiblity is there, but I like to think I'd have thought ahead through possible consequences, and just sucked it up until the situation went away. But I'm not totally certain. I did like knives at that point in my life, and didn't have a strong sense of scale myself. Except of course Will had already planted drugs in Martin's coffee. Will started the chain of events without knowing what the consequences would be. Come to think of it, Isn't "Scott Slater" (Lark) running around with his surf shop nearby? I am sure Will's Excellent Adventure is going to be cut short once he hits the first place that sells surfboards. I believe Lark is on Maui. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
methodwriter85 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 And, I don't think he planned on being AWOL for a long period of time, I hope he makes it unscathed out of Hawaii. It would be real crazy if he ends up with the parents again, since they've proven themselves to be totally incapable of raising children And to think, people wanted Brad and Robbie to become daddies again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXJasonXX Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 As completely baffled as I am on how Brad and Robbie have been written in this story, there is honestly no realistic end to this other than them being relieved of parental responsibilities at the suggestion of the family. Despite always being shown to be big on compassion and family (even if occasionally needing to be reminded that they do have one), for some reason they have completely turned a 180 in this story, becoming caricatures of the evil step parent variety. Unless the rest of the family has somehow also taken leave of their previous morals, removing the kids from their care is the only option that should make sense. No family meeting or therapy session could conceivably retcon this mess. I think Brad and Robbie are just focusing on their work and each other more and have forgotten about the rest of the family. Busy lives can do that. Also Brad has always been kinda stubborn so the situation itself is not surprising at all and is a rather intriguing storyline. Throughout the cap series, I have loved some characters and hated others but then my opinions have changed over time through the different point of views. Now only if another chapter could be posted tonight...ergh why didnt I wait to read this till it was fully uploaded...hate cliffhangers. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Well I certainly have gotten some interesting feedback on this story in general, and this chapter in particular. It's gone from Will being the smart ass kid who should be dealt with in a more assertive manner, to Brad and Robbie are unfit parents. I don't think either is true. What I was trying to illustrate (and it appears I may have been successful) was just how complex and emotional father-son relationships can be, especially at that mid-late teen age time frame. I think that as it stands right now, Brad and Robbie will probably be shocked and amazed that Will has freaked out like he has. I really don't think they grasp that he's as upset about things as he is. And while some may think hiring Martin is out of character for them, I'm sure they did do a comprehensive background check, and I'm sure they found nothing. In the corporate world, when you have a problem and you're the boss, you hire qualified people and delegate responsibility to them. Isn't that really what they did with Martin? In their minds, Martin would be able to come in and help Will turn his attitude around, and get that chip off his shoulder. And he'd help make sure that the pole dancing in Rome or the whiskey fest on the float trip didn't happen again. Logical minds would argue that's nonsense, and raise issues that they should have known how messed up he was, that they should have spent more time with Will and Martin before leaving, that they were expecting a completely different reaction from Will than either one of them (and especially Brad) would have given. The problem with that is that in this situation, with feelings running at a high pitch, logic isn't the prime motivator, emotion is. Those are wonderful argument, and they're all true, but they're not going to gain any traction in that kind of environment. My personal experience is that when conflict is relatively sudden and very intense, it's actually easier to get beyond than a lower-grade animosity that festers for a longer period of time. I don't see the mortal damage to the relationships here that some of you see, because I think that the desire and willingness to forgive is an inherent part of the father-son relationship. Just my opinion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centexhairysub Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) My personal experience is that when conflict is relatively sudden and very intense, it's actually easier to get beyond than a lower-grade animosity that festers for a longer period of time. I don't see the mortal damage to the relationships here that some of you see, because I think that the desire and willingness to forgive is an inherent part of the father-son relationship. Just my opinion. I don't think that is always true. I really believe that of all familial bonds, the one between father and son is the weakest. I really think the bond between mothers and son, fathers and daughters, and mothers and daughters are much stronger. I think between fathers and sons there is always an element of competition that is always there; the son trying to surpass or dethrone the father and the father doing what he can to stop it. I think that there are somethings that can never be forgotten, they maybe forgiven, but never forgotten. I think that the bond between father and son can be breached in a way that you can never really repair the damage. That being said, I don't think that Brad and Robbie have reached that point with Will, yet. I don't think that anything Will has done really has warranted the treatment that Brad and Robbie have tried thus far. I do think that Will's only major lapse in judgement was the pole dance in Rome, but I do think a couple of people need to get over it. When you are that age and physically as mature as Will is being made out to be, shit happens... Frankly, maybe because I grew up in the country and in Texas, but Will hasn't done nearly as much as most of the kids my age did when we were his age; granted this was in 1980 but still. I still believe that a good part of Will's issue is that he has never dealt with the events in Paris. It seems to me that getting kidnapped and raped should have warranted a little more therapy or concern from his parents and family then it got. I think that a good part of Will's recent behaviour can be traced to not dealing with the fact of what happened in Paris and the fact that Brad and Robbie's past came back to bite Will on the ass... The only thing that Will did in this whole chapter that I would question was drugging the guy, but if he hadn't done so; he might have been raped a second time. Plus, no more than the guy took, they will be out of his system way before anyone even gets him out of the hidden sex room. I can say that I never drugged anyone to get away from them; but more than once when I was Will's age, I got someone stinking drunk so they would pass out, thereby letting me and some friends get out of supervision... Yes, I was a bad bad boy... Do I think that Brad and Will have reached a point of no return in their relationship, no; but that being said I think they are teetering along the top of a very steep cliff, let's all hope that they don't slip down it accidently. As someone once said, " it's gonna be a bumpy ride ". Edited April 25, 2012 by centexhairysub 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 I don't think that is always true. I really believe that of all familial bonds, the one between father and son is the weakest. I think that there are somethings that can never be forgotten, they maybe forgiven, but never forgotten. I think that the bond between father and son can be breached in a way that you can never repair the damage. That being said, I don't think that Brad and Robbie have reached that point with Will, yet. I don't think that anything Will has done really has warranted the treatment that Brad and Robbie have tried thus far. I do think that Will's only major lapse in judgement was the pole dance in Rome, but I do think a couple of people need to get over it. When you are that age and physically as mature as Will is being made out to be, shit happens... Frankly, maybe because I grew up in the country and in Texas, but Will hasn't done nearly as much as most of the kids my age did when we were his age; granted this was in the late 1980 but still. I still believe that a good part of Will's issue is that he has never dealt with the events in Paris. It seems to me that getting kidnapped and raped should have warranted a little more therapy or concern from his parents and family then it got. I think that a good part of Will's recent behaviour can be traced to not dealing with the fact of what happened in Paris and the fact that Brad and Robbie's past came back to bite Will on the ass... The only thing that Will did in this whole chapter that I would question was drugging the guy, but if he hadn't done so; he might have been raped a second time. Plus, no more than the guy took, they will be out of his system way before anyone even gets them out of the hidden sex room. I can say that I never drugged anyone to get away from them; but more than once when I was Will's age, I got someone stinking drunk so they would pass out, thereby letting me and some friends get out of supervision... Yes, I was a bad bad boy... Do I think that Brad and Will have reached a point of no return in their relationship, no; but that being said I think they are teetering along the top of a very steep cliff, let's all hope that they don't slip down it accidently. You were a bad boy. You'll have to share your memories with us some time! You also make some very good points. How interesting that I view that father-son bond as being so strong, and you view it as being so much weaker. What a strange dynamic that is! I think your analysis of where Brad and Will are was spot-on. The question is whether Will's assault will force Brad (and Robbie) to have an epiphany, or to just dig in their heels even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjo Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) I was reading the other posts. Will and Brad were kidnapped and Will was raped in Paris. That was not Will's fault. Over the last few stories a few things I don't understand. The first one was in Poor Man's Son: After Gathan stopped Brad's assassination, it was like nothing happened. Jeanine acted like it didn't happen. Brad could have died! I would think that would have effected Will. Next Will was kidnapped and raped in Paris. I not sure if anyone has been kidnapped and raped but to me that would have been trammatic for a 14 yo kid. Look how it screwed up Robbie and still effects him years and years later. Would it not effect Will too? If you look at Will's behavior after the kidnapping and rape, pole dance, college party, etc. even the mouthing off could that be effected by the rape? If I can see this why can't Brad and Robbie. They both have been abused. This is not a foreign concept. What have they done over and over again. Blaming Will rather than trying to solve the problem. Now what do they do, Brad is too busy to spend time with his troubled son. Robbie once the kind loving generous guy, now has no time for Will. The only one who is there for Will, Pat is taken away with not a word. Will is crying out for help and either Brad or Robbie will listen. Wade trys to talk to Brad about it and is dismissed. Even Stef is sidelined. How can anyone, anyone after all this say it's all Will fault? I don't agree with a lot of things that Will has done but don't Brad and Robbie have any responciblity here? They are blameless. No! If they would have taken the time to listen and help Will a lot of this would not have happened. They are too busy. If you are a parent you can never be too busy. I hope the family ( JP, Stef, Wade and Claire) can show Brad and Robbie the right way to be a parent. Before it is too late. Edited April 25, 2012 by rjo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ85 Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 I would think they're not at a point completely beyond repair...yet, but with what's happened in this chapter, is Will going to be all that keen on trying to repair the relationship from his end? It seems doubtful. That's a feeling that can and probably will pass, but perhaps the dust needs to settle for a time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centexhairysub Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) I would think they're not at a point completely beyond repair...yet, but with what's happened in this chapter, is Will going to be all that keen on trying to repair the relationship from his end? It seems doubtful. That's a feeling that can and probably will pass, but perhaps the dust needs to settle for a time. I really agree with this... I think that sometimes as the saying goes, familiarity breeds contempt. I am not sure some time apart wouldn't be a good thing for all involved, but do agree with some earlier post that Will probably should not be alone for all of this time apart. Edited April 25, 2012 by centexhairysub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 I really agree with this... I think that sometimes as the saying goes, familiarity breeds contempt. I am not sure some time apart wouldn't be a good thing for all involved, but do agree with some earlier post that Will probably should not be alone for all of this time apart. Well, since Will has run away, and no one knows where he is, he's in control of who spends time with him and who doesn't. Tough to control those damn teenagers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Splicer PHD Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (edited) why else wouldn't they let me go skiing with the seniors from the team when I was a freshman if it wasn't just to be mean OH THOSE SUNSABITCHES, gimme an address, ITS ON NOW Edited April 25, 2012 by Gene Splicer PHD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateTim Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 Well, since Will has run away, and no one knows where he is, he's in control of who spends time with him and who doesn't. Tough to control those damn teenagers. Well the minute Will turns his cellphone on, he is traceable and I am not sure a 14 year old would know that in 2000. I am not sure most people realize it now how easy it is to find you now. If you run away and don't want to be found, leave the cellphone at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Arbour Posted April 25, 2012 Author Share Posted April 25, 2012 Will may not be street smart, but he's bright about those things. If you think about it, after the event in Paris, and with an increase in security afterward, it makes sense that he'd know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raistlinsama Posted April 25, 2012 Share Posted April 25, 2012 (back commenting after... nearly two years! shame on me!!! ) Until a few chapters ago I was ready to ascribe Will's behaviour to a "bratty teenager" phase, but now it seems apparent that the issues are more deep-rooted than that. The last chapter shows at least that Will is not over his experience of kidnapping and rape in Paris. For a long while I thought that it seemed unlikely for him to be over it so easily, and indeed he wasn't. I guess that Mark planned it this way in advance, so kudos to him! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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