Paternity

[rjo]

Thank you Westie. I do not believe anyone could have said it better. I am glad I don't have to live in the world Tim seems too. I am also glad others seem to believe that too. We've come to a point in this story than will decide if Brad is right or very wrong. Either way it makes me sad very sad, whether you believe Will is a spoiled kid or that he has been forced into some of his over the top behavior. What has happened to the relationship between this father and this son? It should never happen but it has. It is now Mark's job to pick up the pieces and restore what seems broken beyond repair. Good luck with that Mark!

[PrivateTim]

No, actually, I didn't. I responded to your comment about never meeting a 14 year old ready to make sound judgements for their lives. I have and I used my kids as an example. As a parent, I do think that by the time your child is 14 they should be able to do just that, start making sound judgements regarding their life. Notice I said 'start'? They need to feel that they have some control in how their life progresses. How else are they to learn to be productive members of society?

 

You're the one that brought up 14 year olds moving out on their own. I just rolled with it to amuse myself while blowing smoke up your ass.

So what you are saying then is, your kids did not move out at 14 to live on their own because they were just starting to make decisions about their lives? And you are also saying that they didn't do any of the things that Will has done that made you question whether or not they were ready to live on their own?

 

The point I made was obvious, that I didn't know any 14 year olds mature enough to make decisions sufficient that they could move out of their house (since that is the topic we are talking about, a 14 year old going out on his own) at 14 and be on their own. I have met plenty of 14 year olds who have been forced to make decsions and live on their own, but not one was happy about it and not one wouldn't have rather been in a situation where they didn't have that pressure.

 

Then the law is completely inadequate. Whatever you say legally, brad is now an unfit father. To say he's been bad "this year" but because he has been good in other years he can get away with it is completely off the wall.

 

Brad has covered up for a peadophile in this story. I wonder if we went over to the soapbox whether we would see you have a different attitude to people covering up pedophilia when it applies in the catholic church?

 

What Brad has done here is exactly the same - he covered up a terrible crime in order to save his own reputation. That the victims were two of his children makes this even sicker. So yes, even everything else aside, not only is Brad an unfit father, but he is a criminal who should be in jail.

 

We, as readers, also know that he is a murderer. That doesn't help Will in the story, but we have the benefit of arguing outside the story. Brad had committed murder. I'm not certain about the US, but certainly in the UK some of his actions in millennium - manipulating the stock price of omega - would certainly have been criminal. He sees fit to hire staff to look after his kids without checking their backgrounds and evidently without getting to know them - all Because those kids are second priority in his life after business and his own ego.

 

This man is not a fit father by any stretch. Personally for me at this point, Brad cannot even be redeemed. It's gone past that.

 

So now Michael has gone from a stoolie for Jeannie to a full blown pedophile?

 

You didn't address a single point I raised but veered off on a whole new tangent, which is convenient when you don't want to answer the question.

 

It was three days between the time that Michael gave the pictures to the figure skating panel (Nov. 3) and when Will decided he wanted emancipation (Nov. 6). We still don't know what plans Brad had for Michael because Will had to jump in the middle of it and make demands.

 

So how about addressing the points I made before going off in a new direction.

[methodwriter85]

Tim, just give it up. Please. PLEASE.

[samjones1]

You didn't address a single point I raised but veered off on a whole new tangent, which is convenient when you don't want to answer the question.

 

 

This...this quote right here is exactly why I think you find so little sympathy for your discourse here. This is exactly the tactic that you used a few weeks ago when I and others pointed out all the flaws in the study you cited to support your contention that 14-year olds have only a certain amount of sex and no more. This quote shows no small amount of hypocrisy on your part.

 

It has become quite apparent to me (and everyone here, I think) that you have a hypothesis, you've gathered a few of pieces of evidence to support it, and you are going to beat people about the head with these data until we submit. That is a fine tactic to use in court and politics: stay on message and win the war via attrition. Browbeating people who give up a great deal of their free time to provide reading material for our entertainment is an entirely different scenario, however. Here, such behavior simply makes you look like an internet troll.

 

There is also nothing to win by attacking Sharon. I hope that she and everyone else simply refuses to engage you and your palaver any further.

[Westie]

So now Michael has gone from a stoolie for Jeannie to a full blown pedophile?

 

You didn't address a single point I raised but veered off on a whole new tangent, which is convenient when you don't want to answer the question.

 

It was three days between the time that Michael gave the pictures to the figure skating panel (Nov. 3) and when Will decided he wanted emancipation (Nov. 6). We still don't know what plans Brad had for Michael because Will had to jump in the middle of it and make demands.

 

So how about addressing the points I made before going off in a new direction.

 

Tim, this isn't the soapbox. I gave my opinion and then you gave yours. I didn't feel the need to go any further on the discussion because I'm not going to convince you. I did however choose a specific of what you said, and expand on it. This isnt a "new tangent" - I said Brad is an unfit father, you said he wasn't, and so I expanded on my reasoning. Like I said, this isn't the soapbox, dont get all upset and cry like a girl just because I didn't argue about what you wanted to argue about.

 

Edit to add here: the very fact that YOU are trying to call me out on this, given your MO in the soapbox, is hypocritical in the extreme.

 

And to answer your question - yes Michael is a full blown peadophile. He took pictures at the request of Janine to be sure - but she didn't want pictures of JJ. How do you explain those? And how do you explain the guys predisposition towards doing the task for Janine in the first place.

 

Someone who creates indecent or sexual images of minors is a peadophile. I don't care about the circumstances. That guy should be in jail, and people covering for them should be punished too.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Westie

[methodwriter85]

Good point. We should also remember that JJ is physically immature for someone nearly 15, which would attract pedos like flies, and it's entirely possible that he took those pictures of JJ before he did anything with Will.

Edited September 3, 2012 by methodwriter85

[davewri]

Note to Private Tim

 

I just checked this Webster's entry and I'm sure it applies to this story. Mark is not writing a police report, he is telling a story about people he created in his own mind. Obviously you see the world from a different perspective. Maybe you should just post your own stories and we might, or might not, find them just as compelling. Why do wish Mark to change his story line to fit your expectations?

 

Webster's Definition of FICTION

1

a: something invented by the imagination or feigned; specifically: an invented story b: fictitious literature (as novels or short stories) c: a work of fiction; especially: novel

 

2

a: an assumption of a possibility as a fact irrespective of the question of its truth <a legal fiction> b: a useful illusion or pretense

 

3

: the action of feigning or of creating with the imagination

 

— fic·tion·al \-shnəl, -shə-n^əl\adjective

— fic·tion·al·i·ty \ˌfik-shə-ˈna-lə-tē\noun

— fic·tion·al·ly \ˈfik-shnə-lē, -shə-n^əl-ē\adverb

Edited September 3, 2012 by davewri

[mmike1969]

Case in point:

 

Has anyone been to Denny's recently and tried their Macho Nacho Burger? It is awesome!

 

That is going off on a tangent...

 

 

 

 

[Daddydavek]

The latest chapter is up and clearly lays out why Will is so sure he will prevail. The threat of trial by the court of public opinion is too dire a threat for Brad to even consider dealing with at any time. Of course Brad is hardheaded and will take it to the brink in pursuit of his own agenda. However, that is why he is losing standing within his larger family and I still don't think he gets that.

[Hermetically Sealed]

You know what, let the little solipsist take it to the media. Then let him watch as the media starts digging further into all of the family's secrets. Bring out Aunt Claire's abortion, the teenage drinking and pot smoking JP and Isadore allowed under their watch, the connections to multiple criminal organizations (domestic and foreign), Josh, Jeff, Deke, Scottie, Jensen, Bitty . . . . oh the sheer material this family has accumulated. Will's threat isn't just against Brad and Jeanine, it could do a number on the rest of the family as well.

 

As usual, Will proves his inability to think beyond his own instant gratification. He only ever sees what he gets out of it, but not who he harms in the crossfire. And yet, people still think he's mature and makes sound decisions? Okay then.

[PrivateTim]

And to answer your question - yes Michael is a full blown peadophile. He took pictures at the request of Janine to be sure - but she didn't want pictures of JJ. How do you explain those? And how do you explain the guys predisposition towards doing the task for Janine in the first place.

 

Someone who creates indecent or sexual images of minors is a peadophile. I don't care about the circumstances. That guy should be in jail, and people covering for them should be punished too.

 

So Michael is a full blown paedophile (to spell it the British way), but Jeff and Tony (and several others), who are actually having sex with the minor are not? And the whole family knows? Should JP, Stef & Claire be in jail for allowing that to happen?

 

This...this quote right here is exactly why I think you find so little sympathy for your discourse here. This is exactly the tactic that you used a few weeks ago when I and others pointed out all the flaws in the study you cited to support your contention that 14-year olds have only a certain amount of sex and no more. This quote shows no small amount of hypocrisy on your part.

 

It has become quite apparent to me (and everyone here, I think) that you have a hypothesis, you've gathered a few of pieces of evidence to support it, and you are going to beat people about the head with these data until we submit. There is also nothing to win by attacking Sharon. I hope that she and everyone else simply refuses to engage you and your palaver any further.

 

Sorry, but the only "flaw" in the study you pointed out was the age of it. Point to a more recent study and we can discuss that.

 

I don't have a hypothesis, this isn't science, it is literature. I used textual references to make a point, but people don't want to discuss the textual references, they want to go with what they think in spite of the cited references.

 

I appreciate all that Sharon does for GA and Mark and I doubt she feels attacked, but she tried to be cute to make a point and I made my point back.

 

Tim, just give it up. Please. PLEASE.

 

Not a chance, you know that.

[rjo]

That is the precise reason Brad will lose.

Edited September 4, 2012 by rjo

[centexhairysub]

Well, Will is going to win in the end no matter if he wins the emancipation or not... The people that really count have figured out that Brad has gone so out of bounds that he isn't even really fit to run his own life much less anyone elses. Brad is completely ego driven and his behaviour in this matter simply showcases that. It is easy to see why Brad would be great in business; but like so many that are, his family skills are just not on the same level. In the past he balance his life better but after the battle over Omega and with ABC; Brad seems to have lost touch with the really important parts of his own life.

 

Robbie seems to have decided after all the problems they have had in the last few years to simply allow Brad to act in a manner that ruptures so many of the family dynamics. I really have to wonder if they can ever be repaired in this saga. Robbie seems to be willing to risk a complete implosion of not only his immediate but extended family to feed Brad's ego.

 

As I have stated before, Brad has never been one of my faves in this saga, but he is quickly becoming one I love to hate... Claire, who has always been one of my faves, is proving to be a worthy successor to JP... Will, who has acted like a bratty teen for a while, seems to be learning how to relate to his father on Brad's level; always hard for a parent to have a mirror placed in front of themselves...

 

It seems to me that some people are getting so wound up in their reactions to this story that they may need to take a break more than Mark does...

 

Mark, I hope that all this drama isn't causing any unnecessary stress. I hope you can get to a point that you feel okay with stepping back and recharging your batteries and then coming back with a story even more drama filled... LOL...

Edited September 3, 2012 by centexhairysub

[Westie]

So Michael is a full blown paedophile (to spell it the British way), but Jeff and Tony (and several others), who are actually having sex with the minor are not? And the whole family knows? Should JP, Stef & Claire be in jail for allowing that to happen?

 

Nice try. But I didn't say any of that. I am uncomfortable with jeff and tony having sex with a minor. To what extent the law tolerates CONSENSUAL sex with a minor is something I couldn't speak to, but I think there is a clear difference between covering for actual abuse and covering for consensual acts between two people.

 

You are comparing Jeff and Tony - who have sex with a minor who nonetheless has an appearance of an adult - with Michael who took and stored pictures of Will (a minor) AND of JJ (a minor who very much looks the part of a minor).

 

I would have thought that as a lawyer you would understand that intent plays a major part and is a major differentiator in such cases. As I say, I cannot comment on how a US jurisdiction would handle it. I can say though that a consensual relationship between someone over the age of 14 and someone under the age of 21 would not necessarily be prosecuted in the UK.

[methodwriter85]

In the case of Will, they're easier on people if the age difference is within four years. Unfortunately for Tony, he's just a little bit more than four years older than Will, so he'd pretty much land himself on the Megan's Law list. I'm not sure when Jeff turned 18, but if it were after Will's 14th birthday, he'd be fine.

Edited September 3, 2012 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

Jeff's birthday was the day after Stef and Brad first met him. Which was sometime in 1999. Just checked, Jeff was 18, Nov 19,1999.

Edited September 3, 2012 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

Jeff's birthday was the day after Stef and Brad first met him. Which was sometime in 1999. Just checked, Jeff was 18, Nov 19,1999.

 

So he's on the Megan's Law list if they get caught, too. Of course, I can't see that happening. Did anyone else think it was hilarious that the one time someone in CAP gets called on statutory rape, it wasn't an actual case because Kristin was of legal consent age in Ohio?

Edited September 3, 2012 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

so far

[Mari]

off topic, but what does this mean? clearly being awake for almost 33 hours is getting to me but why did Will's smile impact Matt?

 

“Thanks,” I said, hitting him with my serious smile, the one I usually reserved for guys I was trying to fuck. It was pretty flattering to see him almost recoil when it impacted him.

 

 

[Gene Splicer PHD]

Edited September 4, 2012 by Gene Splicer PHD

[methodwriter85]

Shouldn't Will still have braces? In Be Rad, Brad noted that he had a perfect smile which was due to lots and lots of orthodontia, so at 14 Will would still have his braces on, right? Of course, it's 2000 so it's a good chance that he might have the plastic clear ones. Those were common by then.

 

Unless, of course, Will inherited Jeanine's teeth, and Jeanine had perfectly straight teeth without need for braces.

Edited September 4, 2012 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

No. Will teeth us totally messed up and needed both braces and implants while removing several impacted teeth.

 

My reasoning? Because faux news told me. Because that is all the FACTS this fictional story needs

 

I am just going to stop caring about details of this story because some people are taking this to a new level of stupidity and reading these people's arguments are affecting my ability to enjoy this story.

[Mark Arbour]

off topic, but what does this mean? clearly being awake for almost 33 hours is getting to me but why did Will's smile impact Matt?

 

“Thanks,” I said, hitting him with my serious smile, the one I usually reserved for guys I was trying to fuck. It was pretty flattering to see him almost recoil when it impacted him.

 

 

 

It means that Matt is warming up to Will to the point that Will's charm will actually work on Matt.

[methodwriter85]

It means that Matt is warming up to Will to the point that Will's charm will actually work on Matt.

 

Damn. I wanted at least some people to remain immune to Will's charms. And I'm saying this as someone who likes the character.

Edited September 4, 2012 by methodwriter85

[methodwriter85]

Damn. I wanted at least some people to at least remain immune to Will's charms. And I'm saying this as someone who likes the character.

 

On second thought, it's not really in Matt's character to hold a big grudge against anybody. He might be annoyed with Will and find him a spoiled brat, but Matt's pretty much the type of guy to get along with pretty much everybody. He's kind of like Matt in Cross-Currents that way.

 

I do think, given Will's personality, it'll be natural for him to amass some enemies(he's likely redlisted from doing any of the USA Figure Skating Association events), but Matt will never be one of them.

 

I do think it will be eye-rolling if EVERYONE just instantly falls prey to Will's charm...it would make Will way too much of a Mary Sue and less of a real character.

Edited September 4, 2012 by methodwriter85