Annoying prose

[JamesSavik]

Of Late I've been reading a lot of David Weber. He's written a lot of fun sci-fi.

 

The guy is a good writer but he does some things that it would be good to avoid.

 

1) Webers character "shake thenselves" entirely too much. I get the mental image of a wet dog.

 

2) Explosions "vomit fire". I thought that you only did that after a bad burrito.

 

 

Be careful to avoid annoying prose. It makes the reader want to shake themselves and vomit fire.

 

[Dark]

one of my favorite authors makes her characters squint all the time. 

 

I wonder what weird prose I use? 

[Thorn Wilde]

I am frequently annoyed by George R.R. Martin's overuse of the phrase 'it was all he/she/they could do'. I try really hard to be aware of stuff like this when I write, but I'm pretty sure I have some annoying prose habits, too.

 

EDIT: Ooh, I just figured out one of mine! My characters are always 'studying each other's faces'. I must do something about this.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Thorn Wilde

[Dolores Esteban]

My characters shiver a lot. I try to avoid it, but I find it everywhere. It's probably because I often feel cold.

[Sasha Distan]

Hmmm....i don't know if there's  one thing all my characters do a lot. apart from the good sex. Kurt barks and shakes a lot, but he is a werewolf.

 

If i have any weird prose, i hope someone lets me know.

[rustle]

The most frequent issue I encounter is overuse.

 

This doesn't just happen in prose.

[Kenny Deheart]

*snip*

Be careful to avoid annoying prose. It makes the reader want to shake themselves and vomit fire.

Laughing for real at this

[Cia]

Overuse of any element should be avoided for the most part. I remember this one phrase from Diana Gabaldon's Outlander series. So, in her first one she uses this description of a Highlander in full regalia and how amazing it is ... no matter how crabby or bowlegged/old the guy really is. It's a great description paragraph ... but she uses the whole thing, over and over, through the series. It totally ruined it for me.

 

There are ways to use overuse of an item in writing to your advantage though. If you have a character that is constantly repeating an action ... like being a lip biter when they're nervous, you can then have another character react to it. Repeating the motion or phrase can build the reader's reaction to it, then, you have the character react and help release that tension in the reader. For a lip biter, you might have their romantic interest they're constantly blurting stupid shit to, then biting their lip to shut themselves up, react by capturing their chin and using their thumb to tug the lip from between the first character's teeth, then kissing them. Ending it with a line of 'watching you do that all the time was a major damn tease, and I just couldn't stand it anymore.'

 

Repetition, like many writing elements, can be good or bad, depending on the author's use.
 

[Sasha Distan]

There are ways to use overuse of an item in writing to your advantage though. If you have a character that is constantly repeating an action ... like being a lip biter when they're nervous, you can then have another character react to it. Repeating the motion or phrase can build the reader's reaction to it, then, you have the character react and help release that tension in the reader. 

 

Reading this i have just discovered that this i am doing currently. Bay has a nervous habit of picking at the seams of denim and other clothes when he's nervous. In a weird twist, his first and current boyfriends also pick the same habit up from him.

[Former Member]

My characters sigh all the time.  Literally, if I wasn't so self-aware of repitition, they would probably sigh four times in each speaking paragraph.

 

My character Stef, ever since his new haircut, has a tendency to rub his head.  A LOT.

[Sasha Distan]

My character Stef, ever since his new haircut, has a tendency to rub his head.  A LOT.

 

and i love this about him.

[Thorn Wilde]

I don't think there's anything wrong with characters having mannerisms. Some of my characters cock their eyebrows a lot, but that's part of their mannerisms (I myself do this an awful lot, I'm proud of my moveable eyebrows). Others tend to bite their lips, work their jaws, scratch their heads, or click their tongues. All things that people do. This is not what I would in anyway consider bad or annoying prose. These are mannerisms that serve to make your characters more distinct and more human. Of course, variation is still important, and how you describe the action from one scene to the next shouldn't always be the same, but in and of itself I see nothing wrong with describing a character's habits.

[Former Member]

I think it turns to annoying when it's the same word or description used ALL the time.  I knew someone who had a NASTY habit of using 'reluctant' and its variations.  It was like they had just learned how to spell it and wasn't exactly sure what it meant yet, but thought it was pretty.

 

"Herpa derpderpderp," said so-and-so, his voice laced with reluctance.  He pulled reluctantly on she-and-her's shirtsleeve.  "Shenme shenme shenme shenme," he told her reluctantly.

 

Stuff like that.  ^^^ is totally an exagerration.  I don't think I could read on with that many reluctancts.

[JamesSavik]

I think it turns to annoying when it's the same word or description used ALL the time.

 

And are applied to EVERYBODY- not just one or two characters.

 

Individual mannerisms are idiosyncrasies of individuals. Those are OK. It's the sort of thing can nail down characterization. 

 

When you have a book full of people shaking themselves and explosions vomiting fire, that's annoying... or just plain strange.

[Former Member]

And are applied to EVERYBODY- not just one or two characters.

 

Individual mannerisms are idiosyncrasies of individuals. Those are OK. It's the sort of thing can nail down characterization. 

 

When you have a book full of people shaking themselves and explosions vomiting fire, that's annoying... or just plain strange.

 

You know, now I'm really intrigued to read this.  I want to see it for myself.  I'll highlight every single one too and count them and report back.

[khasidi]

In reply to Sasha Distan (and I love your stories, Sasha), your characters "arch one eyebrow."

[oat327]

Mine tend to "grin" or "roll their eyes." (I write a lot of sarcastic characters, apparently.) I wind up deleting a bunch of those when editing.

[The Pecman]

Many prolific writers fall into predictable patterns and wind up reusing old bits. As great as Stephen King is, he's used the trick of ending a chapter by saying, "and that's the last time either of them ever saw <this character> alive again." Fun the first few times, but once he's done it 5 or 6 times, you say, "c'mon! Enough already!"

 

Still a great writer, but eh... you write 20 million words, and occasionally you'll repeat the same snappy phrase.

 

The one I see too often on the net is when characters sigh. I particularly dislike it when they combine it with dialogue.

 

"Oh, please," he sighed.

 

Naaaa, I don't buy that. You speak, and then you sigh. You can't sigh a word. "Whined" I would buy. But I see this used as a crutch all the time.

[Zombie]

The one I see too often on the net is when characters sigh. I particularly dislike it when they combine it with dialogue.

 

"Oh, please," he sighed.

 

Naaaa, I don't buy that. You speak, and then you sigh. You can't sigh a word. "Whined" I would buy. But I see this used as a crutch all the time.

 

actually "sigh" has always had a figurative meaning but specifically, as a verb, it has long established provenance in this sense going back to at least the 1500s by Bill the Bard no less , and then Jane Austen and Alfred, Lord Tennyson etc

 

To speak or utter (words, etc.) with a sigh. Chiefly with advs., as forth and out.

1553   T. Wilson Arte of Rhetorique 117 b,   Some sighes out their woordes. Some synges their sentences.

1598   Shakespeare Love's Labour's Lost iii. i. 12   To..sigh a note and sing a note.

a1616   Shakespeare Coriolanus (1623) i. i. 203   They..sigh'd forth Prouerbes.

1624   F. Quarles Job Militant §8   Bvt wretched Iob, sigh't forth these words, and said, Ah me!

1811   J. Austen Sense & Sensibility III. i. 28   Marianne sighed out her similar apprehension.

1825   T. Hook Sayings & Doings 2nd Ser. I. 212   It is rather too late..for you and me to sit up sighing out romances in real life.

1859   Tennyson Elaine 1341 in Idylls of King   The Queen..sigh'd in passing, ‘Lancelot, Forgive me’.

1879   M. E. Braddon Cloven Foot xxxviii,   ‘Yes,’ sighed Celia, ‘He went early on Tuesday morning’.

 

OED

 

But if you eschew all tags other than "said" then I guess it would be an irritant

[Graeme]

Pecman wasn't objecting to sighing. It was using it as speech tag implies that the person is sighing at the same time they're speaking. That can be done (I can certainly sigh as I say the word "Yes" as per M.E.Braddon), but it's difficult to sigh more than one or two words. The Tennyson example is a good one. Try sighing the phrase "Lancelot, forgive me". It's really difficult and unnatural. However, that's not what Tennyson wrote. The interaction of the sighing with the dialogue is not explicitly linked as occurring at the same time. It merely says that the queen sighed and made that statement. It can easily be read as that she sighed and then made the statement.

 

The quote that Pecman listed could be easily changed to:

 

"Oh, please." He sighed.

 

This then becomes what he said is more likely to be what happened -- the speech followed by the sigh, not the two simultaneously.

 

I've been working lately to minimise the use of speech tags. Instead, I try to include narration to indicate who is speaking by also telling the reader what they're doing before, during, or after the speech. For example:

 

Tony looked into the office next to his. “Okay, Colin, I’m off.”

 

“We’re not there yet, but if this one doesn’t happen, I’ve got a few other similar deals that might work out.” Tony’s smile faded. “Jarrod, I’ve got a question for you, though.”

 

“The pleasure’s mine, especially if things work out.” Jarrod frowned slightly as he looked past Tony.

 

Using speech tags becomes unnecessary because the narration indicates who is speaking as well as portraying other information (like when the character sighs)

[Zombie]

Pecman wasn't objecting to sighing. It was using it as speech tag implies that the person is sighing at the same time they're speaking. That can be done (I can certainly sigh as I say the word "Yes" as per M.E.Braddon), but it's difficult to sigh more than one or two words. The Tennyson example is a good one. Try sighing the phrase "Lancelot, forgive me". It's really difficult and unnatural. However, that's not what Tennyson wrote. The interaction of the sighing with the dialogue is not explicitly linked as occurring at the same time. It merely says that the queen sighed and made that statement. It can easily be read as that she sighed and then made the statement.

 

well the post was "You can't sigh a word", and the OED definition of sigh includes long established use as a speech tag - "To speak or utter (words, etc.) with a sigh" leaves no doubt. Language is about usage not literal practicality

 

The passage from Tennyson's Lancelot and Elaine is

 

"...the Queen,

Who mark'd Sir Lancelot where he moved apart,

Drew near, and sigh'd in passing, "Lancelot,

Forgive me; mine was jealousy in love."

 

It seems clear to me that "sigh'd" is being used as a speech tag but it's only one example. Who would argue with Bill writing "sigh'd forth Prouerbes" - proverbs definitely contain more than one or two words

[Graeme]

I agreed that it's possible to sigh a word. Sighing more than one or two word, though, is something I can't visualise. Words like "Yes","No", "Okay" I can see being sighed. I'm having trouble thinking of a phrase that I could be reasonably considered to have sighed, though.

 

Is it possible that writing has changed? Today, speech tags are generally assumed to apply to the entire piece of dialogue:

 

"I did everything you wanted, you bastard!" he shouted.

 

"Would you like to go back to my room?" I whispered.

 

"Shut up," he growled.

 

Was that always the case? In the Tennyson quote you've given, I cant visualise that entire phrase being sighed. I can, however, believe a sigh that accompanied the spoken words -- just not for the entire length of the phrase.

 

Hmm...we seem to be moving off topic, but I think the subject is still of interest to a lot of people

[Zombie]

I agreed that it's possible to sigh a word. Sighing more than one or two word, though, is something I can't visualise. Words like "Yes","No", "Okay" I can see being sighed. I'm having trouble thinking of a phrase that I could be reasonably considered to have sighed, though.

 

Language usage isn't always literal, often it's figurative. That's especially true in fiction. So it really doesn't matter if you can't "see" these words being sighed. Of course everyone's fully entitled to be irritated if they want

 

 

Is it possible that writing has changed?

 

yep, that's just how it is. Styles change like fashion. But not everyone's a slave to fashion. So, hopefully, there are no incriminating pics of you looking like this

 

[Cynus]

I found this topic fascinating and incredibly useful.

Repetition is common problem of mine that I do all the time, over and over again, like I'm beating a dead horse until it hears all the words I choose to say as often as I need to, until I'm understood and then I say it one more time for good measure.

[JamesSavik]

This is why it is a good idea to read aloud during the editing process. I tend to catch it easier when I hear it rather than when I see it.