The Last Taboo

[Sasha Distan]

So, i seem to have inadvertently discovered the last taboo on the internet.

 

Incest.

 

now don't y'all look at me like i swore, it's not a dirty word.

Honestly, I don't get the big deal. Sex between any two consenting adults is all well and good. the only problem with incest in the issue of DNA, so if the two people involved cannot have kids (ie, they're both men), why do people still get all uncomfortable and fidgety?

It's even one of the tags listed under "sex" here at GA, but according to several members i've spoken to, no one here will read incest stories.

 

I spent my teenage years friends with a pair of twins who were monogamous and committed - too each other, and eventually their boyfriend with whom they had the most beautiful and successful polyamourous relationship i have ever known of. I don't think any of us ever batted an eyelid.

 

So can someone explain to a poor wolf who has no clue... what's the big taboo around incest? Seems like we've normalised every other taboo (ref the "success" of 50 shades of grey). why is this still a button to press on people?

[Zombie]

It seems to be cultural, probably with some underlying evolutionary biological bias for the "health of the herd". Nothing radical about inherited behaviours - plenty of examples in the animal world.
btw wouldn't a "pair of twins" avoid the problem - they could just swap siblings

 

 

 

 

.
 

Edited September 13, 2013 by Zombie

[W_L]

You have not spoken to enough people: "Waves his hands up high as a Wincest fan"

 

I might not write fan fiction, but I read enough of Supernatural's Fan fics to simply say, it's no big deal to a gay, bi, or even straight readers.

 

Seriously, incest really doesn't matter to me in gay relationships; in heterosexual relationships, it is more biological issues with offsprings that I worry about.

 

Before you brought up this topic, I thought that gay incest was normalized within the gay community. Unlike something like pedophilia, gay incest seems quite open.

 

Also, I recommend watching "From Beginning to End", a Brazilian gay movie about two brothers in a incestuous gay relationship, which is interesting, poetic, and makes me happy at the end even though I can't understand a damn thing they are whispering to each other without subtitles, but the love story and expressions' of the actors were great.

 

http://youtu.be/BH6vtx3HVB8

[Former Member]

It goes against a lot of cultural norms I think.  There's a reason it doesn't happen often though - I mean the actual OCCURRENCE of incest.  There's something called Genetic Sexual Assignment (it's kind of like an 'imprinting' thing between close relatives that meet as adults) and it's incredibly rare.  In children who have grown up closely together, the brain takes the opposite route and produces the Westermarck Effect, which essentially cancels out sexual attraction.   It's the reason I can concede my brother is a good looking guy, but why I don't get hot under the collar thinking about it.  Some incestuous sibling couples that I've researched didn't have the Westermarck Effect because they were separated at birth or close to and didn't have time or the existing relationship to put it into effect or develop the reversal, hence the occurrence of GSA.

 

Even if separated at birth and all that, GSA is still really rare.  ...and the whole reason I know about this is because they started talking about it on Nip/Tuck and I was interested in the mechanics of it.  Gotta love what the brain does to protect itself.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Myiege

[Cia]

*shrugs* I have brothers who are identical twins and my dad is an identical twin. I don't even want to think about them being intimate with each other, because ew, they're family. I guess I just can't see people like that. I think it happens beyond blood relations, because I couldn't imagine that with my half or step-siblings and some of them I didn't meet until I was older. My best friend, who I've known since I was six, is exactly the type of woman I'd be with if I were with a woman. Yet, I can't imagine doing anything intimate with her at all. I love her, but I couldn't be in love with her.

 

That's a personal preference though, and in the abstract, if an incestuous relationship is written well I have few problems reading it. I will say that I think bro-cest is way more accepted than other versions but all you have to do is look at other sites and you can see that the genre is alive and well. You see a lot of mother/son which grosses me out as a parent, but *shrugs* I just don't read it.

 

Some people are narrower in their acceptance of content. I don't like to read teens having sex but many, many authors and readers on here have no problems with it. Other sites any sexual content involving minors is forbidden whereas other sites even allow sex between minors and adults which is strictly forbidden here. Some readers think bdsm is deviant and wrong, yet others like it... In the end all you can do is write what you want to write and accept that not everyone is going to read your work if you do not follow the 'cultural norms'.

 

Then again, who knows what acceptance time will bring? Gay fiction is on the rise and has been for some time, and at once upon time it'd been a major taboo subject too.

[joann414]

I'm with Cia and Myiege.  Although it is not totally taboo, some of us do not even give it a thought. It's hard to fathom.  Even tho, I think that I know a brother and sister deal going on, I don't ask, and really don't want to know.  But, that's just me. Each to their own opinion.

[Thorn Wilde]

For me, I have several brothers and it just seems really, really weird... So I don't exactly seek it out. But I don't think I'd be opposed to reading it if someone recommended a good story to me that contained it, so... I dunno. I'm a subversive artist, I believe in breaking boundaries and forcing people out of their comfort zones. It's not what I'd write, but I wouldn't outright refuse to read it.

[Sasha Distan]

Before you brought up this topic, I thought that gay incest was normalized within the gay community. Unlike something like pedophilia, gay incest seems quite open.

 

This what i thought too, it wasn't until i wrote something in this genre/taboo that i discovered how much of an issue it still is for some people.

 

 

Then again, who knows what acceptance time will bring? Gay fiction is on the rise and has been for some time, and at once upon time it'd been a major taboo subject too.

 

And that would be nice to see.

[W_L]

Sasha don't despair, if you can write a good story with incestuous lovers, some of us will still read it (hidden under a rock, several feet below ground )

 

In a few of the "new wave" Asian fiction stories, I've found some interesting stories centered around soulmates that have reincarnated as siblings. Conceptually, it is usually tragic and melancholic, but still very interesting. Not my preference though, but I still enjoy the alternative perspectives.

 

Damn it, I am starting to get into an Asian Bent, I need an American Hamburger and French Fries!

Edited September 14, 2013 by W_L

[crazyfish]

parental incest is no-go for me, even if they are all adults, that's just abuse.  I don't mind cousin/cousin sex.  I don't quite see the taboo

 

Yeah, I dunno about sibling incest.  The problem is that since the siblings are close already, the sex takes on a very weird psychological component, that just doesn't feel healthy to me.  Co-dependency issues come up a lot. Especially with twincest ... There's a strong possibility that the twins are so wrapped up in each other, that they are ill-equipped to deal with others and so become co-dependent on each other, and the sex is another expression of their weird issues. Also sex can be such a destructive force on familial bonds, that I just can't feel cavalier about it. 

 

The problem is the fictional treatment tends to gloss it over, and tsay, it's just 'love' like any other love. Or fixate on the taboo aspect of it.   But I feel like a lot of things have to be in place before siblings can begin to maintain a sexual relationship.  It isn't just 'love'.

 

In real life, I don't care to enough to condemn it.  What consenting adults do is their own business, but I just don't see the allure of it.

 

But incest erotica has a large readership, which means to some degree a lot of people fantasize about it privately.

Edited September 15, 2013 by crazyfish

[JamesSavik]

It's not the last taboo. There are others that polite company doesn't discuss very much.

[Zombie]

Agree with crazyfish. Healthy family relationships are already based around love - unless there are issues preventing this - so to introduce sex seems unnecessary, inappropriate and ... well I'll leave it at that.

 

Of course it does happen in real life, but I think it's more of a tragedy for the players. So while there's justification in exploring that tragic side in stories I don't see the appeal in merely writing / reading an erotic incest story. It has the same appeal for me as reading an erotic love story between an 18 yo and an 80 yo *shudders*

[Mann Ramblings]

I think in the gay community, sibling incest has it's naughty curiosity. If you look hard enough (or maybe not with so much difficulty), twin porn is out there to watch as well as brothers starring in films together to capitalize on the taboo factor. I think it's a subject that many are unable to shake because it seems so foreign. But isn't that what titillates? Finding an attraction to something that society says no to? Look at how many men like the "barely legal" sites out there. That creeps me out way worse than whether two brothers start indulging.

 

From a story standpoint, I think it's a subject worth exploring as long as it's handled properly.

[Celethiel]

what about Cannibalism... rape...... erm beastiality....? are these not still taboo on the net?

[Sasha Distan]

what about Cannibalism... rape...... erm beastiality....? are these not still taboo on the net?

 

I haven't covered cannibalism, but when i write about the other two (and i do) no one ever complains....

[Zombie]

I think in the gay community, sibling incest has it's naughty curiosity. If you look hard enough (or maybe not with so much difficulty), twin porn is out there to watch as well as brothers starring in films together to capitalize on the taboo factor. I think it's a subject that many are unable to shake because it seems so foreign. But isn't that what titillates? Finding an attraction to something that society says no to? Look at how many men like the "barely legal" sites out there. That creeps me out way worse than whether two brothers start indulging.

 

From a story standpoint, I think it's a subject worth exploring as long as it's handled properly.

 

 

Yes, if there is a legitimate plot reason then anything can be covered in fiction and nothing is taboo. That includes incest. It includes rape. It includes sex under the legal age of consent - which, incidentally, has an astonishing range across countries, cultures and over history - and it could include cannibalism - there are plenty of real life cases that demonstrate this. Your qualifier is at the core of this thread, Mann - "as long as it's handled properly". In other words there must be a compelling reason for it. If it's just gratuitous it raises questions about the writer's integrity and the reader's motives

 

 

 

 

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Edited September 20, 2013 by Zombie

[W_L]

Imagines zombie indulging in his horror sub-genre

 

Zombie is absolutely right as long as the story is written well and the topic is discussed well, I think a lot of people will read it. Bestiality and Rape are taboos, but they're explored heavily by writers.

 

I remember Equus well, mostly due to Daniel Radcliffe, but the play has Bestiality themes and is renowned. If you write it with enough emotion and depth with character development, you will get a good response.

 

Rape is basically an episode of Law and Order SVU; every kind, motive, and technique has been prodded and violated for mass audiences (I and millions of other people are probably sick for enjoying the show's drama, but in all honesty, even critics have to admit it's a good show).

 

Cannibalism, I liked Silence of the Lambs and I am following Hannibal along with a good amount of American TV audience. Hannibal is a sick twisted monster, but he's human on some level and that's why people love him. Behind the sadism and Cannibalism, there's a part of human beast that he represents, something we have given up to create Civilization as Freud would tell you, aka his "Death of God" theory.

 

For me, it's the cerebral and empathy together that makes taboos good reading material.

[Thorn Wilde]

I think I've discovered another taboo, actually: The idea that kids under the age of 13 are capable of sexuality and sexual exploration. My story Firsts has had a lot of views, but only one review. After some thought, I can only conclude from this that the people who have read it are unwilling to admit that they have done so. Either that, or it's a really shit story and everyone's sparing my feelings, but for fear of sounding over confident, and from the feedback I have received, I don't really think that's the case. 

 

Magpie and I discussed this last night, and he was the one who suggested that this was somehow a taboo topic. Now, it may be my hippie Scandinavian upbringing, but that idea just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Who didn't have some sort of experience of sexual exploration at the age of 12? Surely most of us had hit puberty by then. Is it that society is so repressed that this is something that we just do not talk about? Do people feel like it's something to be ashamed of, that we're intruding if we admit to ourselves that other people probably had these experiences too? Or have we repressed these experiences all together so we somehow believe that this is unrealistic? It's not. I've worked with kids. Kids as young as kindergarten age are aware of their own sexuality. So why do we seem to see 13 as some magical moment after which it's okay to express that sexuality in one way or another? Why can't we tell the stories of the emotional development of kids younger than that? 

Edited September 21, 2013 by Thorn Wilde

[JamesSavik]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgQTESr6BC8

 

 

To Serve Man... the cookbook.

[TetRefine]

We are biologically wired to avoid close relatives as sex partners. Something about their smell that we are generally automatically turned off by in most cases. I remember Bel Ami made a movie a couple years ago where two twin brothers had sex. They were both drop dead sexy as fuck, but when you put the two together it was just like, bleh. Disgusting. There is a reason nature predisposed us to avoid it. It fucks up the gene pool! Brothers playing "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" is one thing, but full on sex is totally different.

 

Discussing incest like its an okay thing just puts a bad image on the gay community to mainstream society. While not quite as bad, its along the same pitiful lines as Nifty's intergenerational section, where they have stories featuring child molestation. It just reinforces negative stereotypes. 

Edited September 21, 2013 by TetRefine

[Sasha Distan]

Discussing incest like its an okay thing just puts a bad image on the gay community to mainstream society. 

 

Because there's never any incest willing or otherwise in the heterosexual world. gosh no...

[Thorn Wilde]

I shall take the fact that no one has addressed my point as confirmation that it is indeed so.

[Sasha Distan]

I shall take the fact that no one has addressed my point as confirmation that it is indeed so.

 

You know i don't think it so. However i think others might think it so. and i believe they are wrong. you know i love Jacob's first's, had me laughing like nothing else.

[TetRefine]

Because there's never any incest willing or otherwise in the heterosexual world. gosh no...

 

Of course there is, but it sure isn't considered a socially acceptable practice unless you live in Alabama.

[Ieshwar]

 

Who didn't have some sort of experience of sexual exploration at the age of 12?

Me? Seriously. I was incredibly naive and innocent. But I guess I was a late bloomer. 

 

I read stories on Nifty for years. I have been through porn for years. I doubt there is anything such as a taboo. Look on the web and you're sure to find a group with similar opinions, no matter what they are. But yes, there are things which make me, personally, very uncomfortable.

 

Sexual exploration is indeed natural. I don't see anything taboo with it. If well done, showing the innocence, the young way of thinking, the self-exploration, I won't mind reading it. 

 

Incest... Like many here, brocest is cool for me. Perhaps, because I never had a brother. Dunno. But anything else... yeah, that would make me uncomfortable.

 

I guess what would really don't work for me is the mixture of these two above elements. Parental figures having sexual relations with 10-12 years old. That's just... sick. That's my opinion.