Would you date someone in the closet?

[AFriendlyFace]

Hi everyone,

 

Well, considering the other two polls it seemed only natural to make this one too.

 

Actually, this one has the most relevance to me personally. My last boyfriend was in the closet and that's the number one reason it didn't work out.

 

The whole thing really confused me. Basically I thought I was being really patient and not pressuring him at all, but apparently the stress, and the dishonesty he felt as a result were too much. I guess the biggest problems were that we couldn't go out in public (at least not in his area) because he was worried people would see, and I couldn't go to his house because his parents didn't know. Actually I know alot of that was my fault... I was kinda reluctant to meet his family and pretend to be a "friend" because I'm just not comfortable lying to people's families about something like that. I guess I would have if we'd kept dating and he'd really wanted me too *shrug*

 

Anyway, as a result I've really been debating whether or not I should just stay away from closeted people altogether (romantically). The main thing was his feelings about it not mine. Apart from the meeting his family thing (which I may have adjusted to), I think I'd have been fine, but I really don't see anything else I could have done to make him feel better about it.

 

I guess it really depends on how you define "closeted", I mean there's quite a few levels. For example I'm out to everyone in the city I live in now, and I'm also out to my mom and a few other good friends from my past, but quite a few old friends and several family members don't know. I don't really see that as a problem, because it has absolutely no effect whatsoever on my day to day life. Anyway obviously I'd be fine dating someone in a similar situation. I guess the determining factor would be whether or not he would be comfortable acting normally in public.

 

Anyway, I really can't make up my mind about this, I keep going back and fourth between all 4 of the options in the poll lol. So I think I'll think about it awhile longer before I decide.

 

What do you guys think about this?

 

-Kevin

[Meeko]

As Someone who's still in the cloest, there are a few points i have to say.

 

One to me anyway, coming out to your parent's is the biggest step, becuase in the end, they mean the most to you, so it is alot harder to ask someone to do that.

 

I don't know if you would rate me as cloest or not, i mean to be honest, i don't care who knows im gay or not. The only reason i am not out, is because i work with 100 people, and doing what i do, i know it will effect my job, and at this point i can't have any of that.

 

But like you said Kevin, not being able to go out in public is stupid imo. I mean when i first went out with my first ever bf, we decided to go eat dinner together, and just as we pulled into the parking lot, i just freaked out, and so we decided to get fastfood instead ><

 

But my second bf, our first date was movies and a dinner, and it didn't feel weird at all. I mean i know i was still scared, i mean isn't everyone when they go out on a date? But the fact that i was able to go out to a public place with him made me feel okay.

 

Anyway, my answer to this poll is simple, it doesn't matter.

[Jason Rimbaud]

I didn't vote, mainly because I think I would have a different answer depending on the guy and what his reasons were for staying in the closet. I'm thirty-two and quite comfortable being out. It would be difficult for me to revert back to hiding my relationship from others. Though I think for the right circumstances I'd make an exception.

 

Luckily for me, all the guys I normally date (read have meaningless sex with) are comfortable being gay and since it's usually one night stands, there isn't really a cause of closet dwelling or not. Though that might change very soon considering the events that are transpiring in my life at the moment. Maybe I should come back here in a few weeks and take the poll.

 

Jason R.

[NaperVic]

I guess it really depends on how you define "closeted", I mean there's quite a few levels.

 

Kevin,

 

I think you made a good point about the levels of closetedness.

 

I voted yes, I could date someone who's closeted (if I were attracted to them enough), but only if I felt they were making progress towards coming out.

 

It was hard for many of us to come out and I would hate to force someone out further then they were willing to be. But they have to be willing to stick their toes into the water and hopefully one day be comfortable enough to be out a respectable distance.

 

I remember when I was first dating my Ex (we had been together for about a month). We were shopping in the Monkey Wards and about 100 feet away, I see my mom. I literally push what's his name away from me in a panick , so that it didn't seem like we were together.

 

There was hell to pay after that .

 

I'm happy to say that 12 years later, I'm much more open about my gayness, but back in the day, yikes I was a case :wacko: .

 

Take Care®,

 

Vic 'Who's head hurts from all this thinking that Kevin's makin us do'

[rknapp]

Being that I'm in the closet and completely understand why someone else would be in there too, I would have no problem with dating a guy who is in the closet as well.

 

BUT, there would certainly come a time when the closet would become too confined and we might wind up breaking the door down and falling out in a piled of limbs and torsos... maybe with our pants down, who knows.

[FrenchCanadian]

Well, right now, I'm in the closet for my parents, and to some of my friends. And i'm in a place where if my parent were asking me I wouldn't try to hide myself. I Like to think that having a boyfriend, I would come out when the need comes.

 

Therefore I wouldn't mind to date someone that is also closeted,, as long as he knows that sooner rather than later it will have to come out, unless he have a situation where it can be harmful to come out.

 

I'm guessing that, for this, it depends on everyone. depends on how open you wanna be with your bf.

[Menzoberranzen]

No, I would not. I understand not telling certain people about it, but to be closeted to the whole world is not something I could handle. I don't walk around with a sign, but I never go out of my way to hide it because I am comfortable with who I am. I would need the same self-assurance from anyone I dated. I don't like to pretend to be someone I'm not, and I want someone who would hold my hand in public and not be constantly pretending I was just a friend. I sympathize people who stay closeted while living at home - having parents who hate you is not pleasant - but I'm not likely to be dating them, so it doesn't really matter.

 

Menzo

[AFriendlyFace]

'Who's head hurts from all this thinking that Kevin's makin us do'

No, No, Vic! It's Joe who makes us do things!

 

I'm completely innocent

 

BUT, there would certainly come a time when the closet would become too confined and we might wind up breaking the door down and falling out in a piled of limbs and torsos... maybe with our pants down, who knows.

What vivid imagery!

 

 

Interesting comments you guys!

[Ieshwar]

Gays are sooo picky!!!

 

This means you guys won't date me! Not even Kevin! *sobs*

 

Oh, come on, guys! I think you understand what being closeted means. Just forget what you are and try to be the closet one for once more. Not only he has to hide his identity but also, he'll have to deal with your issues of dating a closet gay. Just imagine if he really loves you and while trying not to lose you, he ends up doing something he shouldn't- like coming out to his parents when he isn't ready!

 

I'm with someone who is in closet and believe me, he's very very far in the closet to come out right now. But i don't care. That's not a priority for me. He comes out when he likes! But I'll be there whne he needs me.

 

Anyway, we don't have much time to meet. But when we do, we've to be like friends. Even I want to hold his hand, to show that we're bf. I know it sucks. But deep inside, I know that the feelings are more. That's more important. It's not in the next ten years that we're going to have guys holding hand safely on the road...

 

But, perhaps, it's different there (your place). Coming out here will mean (almost literally) suicide! When I talked about coming out (not to come out, just generally) with Rohun, he was .

 

But one thing that sucks on closeted is the idea of them ditching you and getting married. :shudders: But if someone is in closet but firm about his sexuality to defend it (like me), I don't find any problem.

 

But this thread made me learn a few things I didn't know.

 

So if I understood right, when you're in closet, it's ok to date with someone gay. Why? Because you're not ready to come out yet. And when you're out, you can't! Because now, you're comfortable with being out. And the other guy?

 

Ieshwar, whose head is aching since he entered the adult's word.

[AFriendlyFace]

This means you guys won't date me! Not even Kevin! *sobs*

I didn't say that! I said I didn't know whether or not I would date another person in the closet. It probably would depend on the circumstances.

 

I'm with someone who is in closet and believe me, he's very very far in the closet to come out right now. But i don't care. That's not a priority for me. He comes out when he likes! But I'll be there whne he needs me.

Good for you, Ieshwar!! He's lucky to have you!

Anyway, we don't have much time to meet. But when we do, we've to be like friends. Even I want to hold his hand, to show that we're bf. I know it sucks. But deep inside, I know that the feelings are more. That's more important. It's not in the next ten years that we're going to have guys holding hand safely on the road...

 

But, perhaps, it's different there (your place). Coming out here will mean (almost literally) suicide!

Actually, I think this is exactly what I meant earlier about depending on the circumstances. What I'm saying is that I don't know if I would date another closeted person in my current situation/society/part of life, etc. What I mean is I'm out, it's not a very big deal, most of my friends are out, we can easily go out in public with boyfriends, we have an entire "gay district", etc. so as long as we're not very stupid (going into the wrong part of town and behaving inappropriately) it's unlikely anyone will even make a rude comment. As a result I've grown very accustomed to this luxury and it's a little difficult to, as others have pointed out, "regress" in terms of freedoms and self-assurance.

 

In your society things are obviously much different.

 

I'm very sorry to venture the guess that you've never been able to go out with a group of gay friends and be yourselves. Those freedoms aren't common place As a result if I did live in Mauritius I suspect I never would have come out in the first place, and there wouldn't be very many openly gay people, so of course I would date someone in the closet. Having that special someone with whom I could share that side of myself would be a huge comfort and improvement over not having any other gay people in my life.

 

Things are easier in the U.S. and even easier in the big cities. It's actually very possible to almost completely surround yourself with gay or at least gay friendly life if you want to. I almost feel embarrassed to admit this but nearly my entire social circle consists of GLBT people or straight allies. My only major links to the straight world over the past year and a half or so has been work, and incidental daily life activities (getting groceries, running errands, etc.), and even these could more or less be avoided by taking a job in the gay community itself, and choosing to exclusively live, work, shop, bank, eat, etc. in the gay district. Obviously I'd still run into straight people all the time, but it would be highly unlikely that they would be (openly) homophobic given our location (and considering that they could get themselves into social trouble by doing that).

 

Recently I was having a discussion with a group of friends and one of them jokingly remarked "I don't have a problem with straight people, it just isn't the norm".

 

Anyway, what I'm saying is that it's a completely different atmosphere, and I do feel extremely lucky and blessed to be a part of it Life as a gay person really isn't difficult for me at this phase in my life. I wish it were such for everyone!

 

 

-Kevin

Edited December 1, 2007 by AFriendlyFace

[Graeme]

I don't think I can answer this one. Being closeted would be just one aspect of the person and I would be trying to look at the full package, not the individual parts.

 

As an example, my best on-line friend was very much closeted when we started chatting. With a bit of encouragement, he stepped out of the closet enough to tell a good friend at work. That good friend then introduced him to a gay friend, and in three months time they'll have been together for two years. The relationship ALSO helped my friend come out to others (including his family) because he wanted to be able to be open with his boyfriend. At the time they started dating, though, he was in the closet with no firm plans to step out much further.

 

So, looking at the total picture, there was a really nice guy who just happened to be closeted and was still in the early stages of coming out (with the possibility that he would step back in if things didn't go well). However, I really don't think that that was a significant factor for the boyfriend -- it was the OTHER aspects of my friend that he liked, such as his personality and common interests.

 

If something happened and I started to look for a S.O., I would look at whether they were closeted or not, but only because I want to come out. It would be a factor in deciding if I wanted to have a relationship with that person, but it wouldn't be the decider. There are a lot more important things to consider before that one.

[C James]

I voted "yes"... I pretty much had to vote that way, as in some ways I'm closeted myself (at work in my case).

 

With me, it would depend on the guy, just like in any other way... However, I'd be unwilling to date someone who wasn't out to themselves, or just 'experimenting', due to that being non-conducive to a relationship.

 

I'd also like to qualify my vote in the sense that I have issues at the other end of the spectrum; I'm unlikely to date anyone who is what I consider "overly out". Sexuality is, in my view, just one small facet of a person's personality, and I have a dislike of people who make a huge issue of being gay, and feel the need to broadcast it every chance they get. (I'm talking about people who do it intentionally).

 

I also take serious exception to guys who want to be out everywhere, all the time, at the expense of common sense. For example, a guy who wants to hold hands in public when doing so puts us both at risk of serious boldily harm (when outnumbered in a redneck, homophobic location, for example.) I don't consider that being out, I consider that being a damn moron, and I prefer to avoid dating damn morons. As you might guess, this is a big pet peeve of mine, in large part due to a jerk I was dating doing exactly that to make a "point" and be "out and proud", resulting a very serious barroom brawl and me having to fight. Mr. moron was sure quick to make his damn 'point' by taking my hand in public against my wishes and warning, but when we were as a direct result confronted by two rednecks (this was in a rural bar) the idiot left me to fight them both while he bravely cowered in a corner. Grrr... Needless to say, that was my second and final date with him, and I am very careful to avoid anyone like him. Ugh.

[JamesSavik]

I voted NO. I've been out since I was 13 and wouldn't have anything in common with someone who is in the closet.

[rknapp]

I didn't say that! I said I didn't know whether or not I would date another person in the closet. It probably would depend on the circumstances.

 

 

Good for you, Ieshwar!! He's lucky to have you!

 

Actually, I think this is exactly what I meant earlier about depending on the circumstances. What I'm saying is that I don't know if I would date another closeted person in my current situation/society/part of life, etc. What I mean is I'm out, it's not a very big deal, most of my friends are out, we can easily go out in public with boyfriends, we have an entire "gay district", etc. so as long as we're not very stupid (going into the wrong part of town and behaving inappropriately) it's unlikely anyone will even make a rude comment. As a result I've grown very accustomed to this luxury and it's a little difficult to, as others have pointed out, "regress" in terms of freedoms and self-assurance.

 

In your society things are obviously much different.

 

I'm very sorry to venture the guess that you've never been able to go out with a group of gay friends and be yourselves. Those freedoms aren't common place As a result if I did live in Mauritius I suspect I never would have come out in the first place, and there wouldn't be very many openly gay people, so of course I would date someone in the closet. Having that special someone with whom I could share that side of myself would be a huge comfort and improvement over not having any other gay people in my life.

 

Things are easier in the U.S. and even easier in the big cities. It's actually very possible to almost completely surround yourself with gay or at least gay friendly life if you want to. I almost feel embarrassed to admit this but nearly my entire social circle consists of GLBT people or straight allies. My only major links to the straight world over the past year and a half or so has been work, and incidental daily life activities (getting groceries, running errands, etc.), and even these could more or less be avoided by taking a job in the gay community itself, and choosing to exclusively live, work, shop, bank, eat, etc. in the gay district. Obviously I'd still run into straight people all the time, but it would be highly unlikely that they would be (openly) homophobic given our location (and considering that they could get themselves into social trouble by doing that).

 

Recently I was having a discussion with a group of friends and one of them jokingly remarked "I don't have a problem with straight people, it just isn't the norm".

 

Anyway, what I'm saying is that it's a completely different atmosphere, and I do feel extremely lucky and blessed to be a part of it Life as a gay person really isn't difficult for me at this phase in my life. I wish it were such for everyone!

 

 

-Kevin

 

Closet status has come to the point where if I got a boyfriend (not happening in this lifetime) I would be completely comfortable being gay with him in public. The trouble would come when I wouldn't want my family to meet him, at least not as my boyfriend and not until after I've graduated, been employed, and officially moved out of the house (those things will likely occur all at once since my dad plans on retiring, buying a small yacht --39-42 footer-- selling the house in Jersey and cruising the American/Canadian waterways for a year). After that point, I would likely show him off to anyone and everyone that cared... especially if he could put up with that crap until 2011 (my likely coming out date).

 

But yes, if I got a boyfriend tomorrow, I would hold his hand in public and probably come out to my roommates and friends. I've decided that I have no problems with them since the biggest hurdle, my roommate Brian, is good friends with the lesbian couple whose house I will be going to in two weeks for a "Queermas" party. I think some of them might have figured me out anyway.

[AFriendlyFace]

Mr. moron was sure quick to make his damn 'point' by taking my hand in public against my wishes and warning, but when we were as a direct result confronted by two rednecks (this was in a rural bar) the idiot left me to fight them both while he bravely cowered in a corner. Grrr... Needless to say, that was my second and final date with him, and I am very careful to avoid anyone like him. Ugh.

Wow! I'm sorry, CJ

 

And I do agree with you about there being a difference between being out and being stupid lol.

 

But yes, if I got a boyfriend tomorrow, I would hold his hand in public and probably come out to my roommates and friends. I've decided that I have no problems with them since the biggest hurdle, my roommate Brian, is good friends with the lesbian couple whose house I will be going to in two weeks for a "Queermas" party. I think some of them might have figured me out anyway.

Well good for you, Robbie!

 

 

I've also finally decided what my vote/decision is: Yes - if I thought they were going to come out soon. Or more like Vic said if I thought they were at least willing to test the waters and some day be mostly out.

 

 

Take care all,

-Kevin

Edited December 3, 2007 by AFriendlyFace

[Zapp]

Probably almost exclusively.

[Ieshwar]

Ouch, CJ!

 

And nice decision, Robbie!

 

And Kevin, I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh. I guess I was quite angsty due to my work at that time and quite vented it here.

 

Ieshwar

[rknapp]

Ouch, CJ!

 

And nice decision, Robbie!

 

And Kevin, I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh. I guess I was quite angsty due to my work at that time and quite vented it here.

 

Ieshwar

Wanna know what's sad? I had to go back up to my post in here to see what my "nice decision" was LMFAO. Yeah, selective memory sucks hahah.

[BeaStKid]

Jumping straight down.... Sorry...

 

But my reply would be and is that OF COURSE!!! As i too would be in that same bloody closet!!!

[AFriendlyFace]

And Kevin, I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh. I guess I was quite angsty due to my work at that time and quite vented it here.

 

You weren't harsh, Ieshwar, I was just sorry that it seemed like I'd hurt your feelings.

 

As i too would be in that same bloody closet!!!

Well at least it wouldn't be a long-distance relationship

 

-Kevin

[C James]

Wow! I'm sorry, CJ

 

And I do agree with you about there being a difference between being out and being stupid lol.

 

Thanks... It was over ten years ago, but I'm still steamed. A little background; it was our second date, and there had been no hand holding (or anything else) in private. So, when he tried to reach for my hand in public, I was a little surprised, and told him why it wasn't a good idea (We were in a redneck bar, which I thought would be obvious...) He isnsited that you "couldn't hide who you were" and "should always be out, and I make a point of it" and latched onto my hand over the table. When the guys at the bar took notice moments later, he said to them "Yes, we're dating."

 

I guess my main point here is the guy has every right to be out, but he sure as hell doesn't have the right to expose others at will like that, and he especially doesn't have the right to stir up a fight by being stupid and then cower while someone else gets to fight it out. (I was lucky and did ok, but it was a near-run thing, and I don't like barroom brawls anyway.)

 

Hrmmm, I'm also wondering what defines "closeted". I've mentioned that I'm in the closet at work; I consider myself to be so becuase I don't tell them I'm gay. However, I also don't tell them that I like horseback riding, or any number of other things that are equally irrelevant in a work context. I doubt I'd deny it if anyone asked, though I'd likly not confirm it either (there would be financial ramifications for me, and I'm rather protective of my wallet) but I sure as heck don't need to broadcast it either. In much the same way, I'm closeted when I pull into a gas station to buy gas. I don't make a habit of saying "twenty bucks on pump #3, and I'm GAY!"

[Benji]

Thanks... It was over ten years ago, but I'm still steamed. A little background; it was our second date, and there had been no hand holding (or anything else) in private. So, when he tried to reach for my hand in public, I was a little surprised, and told him why it wasn't a good idea (We were in a redneck bar, which I thought would be obvious...) He isnsited that you "couldn't hide who you were" and "should always be out, and I make a point of it" and latched onto my hand over the table. When the guys at the bar took notice moments later, he said to them "Yes, we're dating."

 

I guess my main point here is the guy has every right to be out, but he sure as hell doesn't have the right to expose others at will like that, and he especially doesn't have the right to stir up a fight by being stupid and then cower while someone else gets to fight it out. (I was lucky and did ok, but it was a near-run thing, and I don't like barroom brawls anyway.)

 

Hrmmm, I'm also wondering what defines "closeted". I've mentioned that I'm in the closet at work; I consider myself to be so becuase I don't tell them I'm gay. However, I also don't tell them that I like horseback riding, or any number of other things that are equally irrelevant in a work context. I doubt I'd deny it if anyone asked, though I'd likly not confirm it either (there would be financial ramifications for me, and I'm rather protective of my wallet) but I sure as heck don't need to broadcast it either. In much the same way, I'm closeted when I pull into a gas station to buy gas. I don't make a habit of saying "twenty bucks on pump #3, and I'm GAY!"

 

 

...............Reminds me that when I was in forgien countries a few years back I always removed my "star" ........no need to advertise about being Jewish!!

[C James]

...............Reminds me that when I was in forgien countries a few years back I always removed my "star" ........no need to advertise about being Jewish!!

 

It's horrible that is needed, but it, like keeping one's sexuality to one's self, is a very real need in some areas.

[Graeme]

CJ, I made a decision some time ago that it is never my place to out someone without their permission. Even if that guy was happy being "out", he had no right to out you without your permission. Common courtesy means behaving in public in a way that your partner is comfortable with.

 

As a side point, my wife is uncomfortable with me making public displays of affection, including holding hands, so it is, in a non-threatening way, analogous to that situation you listed. The main difference is that it just makes her embarrassed, while in your case it threatened your health -- but in either case the other person should respect the wishes of their partner and behave accordingly (at least most of the time... I do tease her from time to time )

[Hylas]

YAY! just yay! LOL.