[Shadowgod] Dreams & Clipped Wings 6

[Benji]

Interesting how form a certain angle anyone can seem broken, isn't it?

 

This brings up another conundrum, how to say what I want to say with out providing any spoilers? Which is actually why I have been rather silent as of late.

 

lets see if I can get these in order.

 

Is Joe in the closet? - I am going to say no. I am also going to refuse to give an answer to the whole "is he Straight Gay Bi or what?" business. Sometimes, sexuality just isn't that cut and dry. I know this method of thinking can cause some flak, but I rather enjoy exploring the more complex happenings behind the laws of attraction.

 

Parallels, opposites, connections... - yeah there are a few, I initially had the title in mind for Cody's plight, it's interesting how it evolved and can now be used to cover almost every Character in the story.

 

And semi related to this is Julie, I know she has now been accused of "whoring" herself out. Honestly i don't find that accusation very fair. In fact there is only one character we have seen having multiple meaningless encounters. Shouldn't the whore label be applied there as well?

 

 

 

It seems this is the controversy in the chapter. I apologize, i thought I made it clear that Saul and Cody were talking about Jonathan. In a way yeah it was related to a string of one night stands, or partners, Cody had sought out. Why he ended up with Jonathan is simple, because Jonathan chose him. So no the passage wasn't about married men, or Cody's father. Though to answer that yes Cody does know his father... there will be more about that later. Just as there will be more about Saul.

 

I think that covered everything. Let me know if I missed anything

 

Steve

 

.......In all fairness to Julie, things between her and Joe seemed to be disintegrating before her 'party-waking up with a strange guy inbed night' (is that even legal to write like that?). Whether or not Joe is bi or gay, it's too early in this story for it to have an impact IMHO. Cody needs to resolve isssues before trying out a new relationship. BTW, I noticed he didn't get his $1,000 check yet

[steph]

And semi related to this is Julie, I know she has now been accused of "whoring" herself out. Honestly i don't find that accusation very fair. In fact there is only one character we have seen having multiple meaningless encounters. Shouldn't the whore label be applied there as well?

Well, you know, society does hold double standards for women. If a woman is involved in a relationship, it practically expected that she's not sleeping around. And we understand from both of Julie and Joe, that they consider themselves to be in a committed relationship, regardless of the fact that they're having problems. Now, Cody does not consider himself in a committed relationship, and since the story is written in a way that we do not empathize with Jonathan, then well, we don't care that Cody's sleeping around... well, we care, because it's unhealthy, but not in the context of Jonathan. Jonathan's kinda like this black box that Cody takes out an steps on every once and a while.

 

It seems this is the controversy in the chapter. I apologize, i thought I made it clear that Saul and Cody were talking about Jonathan.

I think this was the part that we were confused on... in this part, he's talking about Jacob, rt?

 

"I blamed him for that, blamed him for stealing part of me," Cody continued, oblivious to the concern smeared over Saul's face. "Then I figured out he didn't take anything, he just let me know something was missing..."

 

"Who, Cody?" Saul asked. His brow knit tight with worry, fearing the answer was Jonathan, though he was almost certain it was not.

... which I think it kinda weird, because according to Jacob, Cody left him high and dry...

Edited June 17, 2008 by steph291

[shadowgod]

Well, you know, society does hold double standards for women. If a woman is involved in a relationship, it practically expected that she's not sleeping around. And we understand from both of Julie and Joe, that they consider themselves to be in a committed relationship, regardless of the fact that they're having problems. Now, Cody does not consider himself in a committed relationship, and since the story is written in a way that we do not empathize with Jonathan, then well, we don't care that Cody's sleeping around... well, we care, because it's unhealthy, but not in the context of Jonathan. Jonathan's kinda like this black box that Cody takes out an steps on every once and a while.

 

hrmm... I am interested in this Jonathan as black box analogy. It makes Cody sound like a prick, and granted the way he treats Jonathan may be prickish, I don't think he sets out to do it on purpose, I think it is just a safe guard so he won't be hurt again.

 

And yeah that double standard in our society sucks. I however used it to my best ability. Joe would loose allot of credibility if he stepped out first. That said, it is sad how relationships decay, and it usually happens without notice. One day your sailing along the Bay and everything couldn't be more perfect. Then before you know it what seemed like it could go forever, slowly ebbs away.

 

I particularly don't find fault in either of them over their actions. Even though they both know their relationship is done, they don't want to admit it to the other, for fear of hurt feelings and broken promises. Sadly I had to show Julie as the baddy this go round, but whose mind wandered first?

 

I think this was the part that we were confused on... in this part, he's talking about Jacob, rt?

 

 

... which I think it kinda weird, because according to Jacob, Cody left him high and dry...

 

Ahhh... yes that was Jacob he was referring to, yet another wonderful case of he said/ he said I guess. hrmm how do I best describe the two differing opinions. I guess Landon Pigg summed it up in a lyric. "Our love didn't die, it just never had a chance to grow."

 

Cody may have never called, but Jacob never went back to the school, so each see abandonment in their own right. Plus Cody is also dealing with the fact that he never appreciated what was there until it was good and gone.

[C James]

Well, you know, society does hold double standards for women. If a woman is involved in a relationship, it practically expected that she's not sleeping around. And we understand from both of Julie and Joe, that they consider themselves to be in a committed relationship, regardless of the fact that they're having problems. Now, Cody does not consider himself in a committed relationship, and since the story is written in a way that we do not empathize with Jonathan, then well, we don't care that Cody's sleeping around... well, we care, because it's unhealthy, but not in the context of Jonathan. Jonathan's kinda like this black box that Cody takes out an steps on every once and a while.

 

 

I think this was the part that we were confused on... in this part, he's talking about Jacob, rt?

 

 

... which I think it kinda weird, because according to Jacob, Cody left him high and dry...

 

Agreed that it does, and it's one of the things I bitterly oppose.

 

I think I'd have reacted the same to any cheating character. Infidelity is infidelity in my book, and I agree with the Shadowy one that if Joe had strayed, he'd have come off as damaged goods, just as Julie has.

 

Jonathon... Hrmmm. I have mixed feelings there. If Cody led him to beleive it's a monogamous relationship (and Jonathon did seem to have that impression) then that is a negative for Cody, though IMHO mitigated by his psychological issues a little, and a little more by Jonathon being kind of negative himself). I think I may have expressed some concerns regarding Cody's reputation in this regard to His Shadowyness early in the story.

 

Now here's an interesting conundrum; now that Julie has cheated, what if Joe strays? IMHO, turnabout is fair play, BUT, what if Joe strays without knowing that Julie has? In effect, he's done the exact same thing as she did IMHO if he does that.

 

hrmm... I am interested in this Jonathan as black box analogy. It makes Cody sound like a prick, and granted the way he treats Jonathan may be prickish, I don't think he sets out to do it on purpose, I think it is just a safe guard so he won't be hurt again.

 

And yeah that double standard in our society sucks. I however used it to my best ability. Joe would loose allot of credibility if he stepped out first. That said, it is sad how relationships decay, and it usually happens without notice. One day your sailing along the Bay and everything couldn't be more perfect. Then before you know it what seemed like it could go forever, slowly ebbs away.

 

I particularly don't find fault in either of them over their actions. Even though they both know their relationship is done, they don't want to admit it to the other, for fear of hurt feelings and broken promises. Sadly I had to show Julie as the baddy this go round, but whose mind wandered first?

 

Ahhh... yes that was Jacob he was referring to, yet another wonderful case of he said/ he said I guess. hrmm how do I best describe the two differing opinions. I guess Landon Pigg summed it up in a lyric. "Our love didn't die, it just never had a chance to grow."

 

Cody may have never called, but Jacob never went back to the school, so each see abandonment in their own right. Plus Cody is also dealing with the fact that he never appreciated what was there until it was good and gone.

 

Hrmmm... A wandering mind? Sorry, I don't think that can compare with wandering, errrm, other parts. HOWEVER, was that wandering mind a factor in the breakup? Seems to me it is, though subconscious.

 

Regarding Julie, one thing that made her look good IMHO (or at least, less bad) was that she felt guilt.

 

Cody indeed never called Jacob (until much later, anyway). Cody basically let Jacob take the fallout from the "incident", so Jacob IMHO has by far the lessor burden of responsibility and blame here. Cody, while he did the right thing and didn't sell Jacob out to the PI, also didn't tell Jacob that a PI was poking around. That has long puzzled me, but perhaps it's explained by lingering resentment, at some level, towards Jacob?

 

It isn't surprising that each of them seem to have their own "versions" of what actually happened. Indeed, IMHO it would be surprising if they didn't.

[shadowgod]

Ohhhh look at all that stuff to respond too

 

Agreed that it does, and it's one of the things I bitterly oppose.

 

I think I'd have reacted the same to any cheating character. Infidelity is infidelity in my book, and I agree with the Shadowy one that if Joe had strayed, he'd have come off as damaged goods, just as Julie has.

 

Jonathon... Hrmmm. I have mixed feelings there. If Cody led him to beleive it's a monogamous relationship (and Jonathon did seem to have that impression) then that is a negative for Cody, though IMHO mitigated by his psychological issues a little, and a little more by Jonathon being kind of negative himself). I think I may have expressed some concerns regarding Cody's reputation in this regard to His Shadowyness early in the story.

 

Sorry, did Cody give him that impression, or did Jonathan produce it all on his little lonesome? Who "Dumps" who when they think they found something better? In that vein who comes running back when the something better doesn't work out?

 

Granted, Cody should tell him to stay gone, but there is that whole marble thing, and some activities are better when two people are involved. Does that make Cody weak in terms of physical desire? Yeah it does, but He is realizing that no matter how good something is, the price that must be hefted for it isn't usually all that great.

 

Now here's an interesting conundrum; now that Julie has cheated, what if Joe strays? IMHO, turnabout is fair play, BUT, what if Joe strays without knowing that Julie has? In effect, he's done the exact same thing as she did IMHO if he does that.

 

Hrmmm... A wandering mind? Sorry, I don't think that can compare with wandering, errrm, other parts. HOWEVER, was that wandering mind a factor in the breakup? Seems to me it is, though subconscious.

 

Awww, but Cj as soon as you have given up on something mentally, you are much more likely to give up on something physically. Sure it took the social lubrication of alcohol for Julies resolve to snap. Joe almost made the same mistake, he just happened to be a lot closer to a amiable resolution then Julie was. What would have happened had Cody not showered? What would have happened had Joe gone in that door instead?

 

 

Regarding Julie, one thing that made her look good IMHO (or at least, less bad) was that she felt guilt.

 

but what did she feel guilty about? Was it that she cheated on Joe, or was it that it had been with a person whose name, or general description, she cant remember.

 

Cody indeed never called Jacob (until much later, anyway). Cody basically let Jacob take the fallout from the "incident", so Jacob IMHO has by far the lessor burden of responsibility and blame here. Cody, while he did the right thing and didn't sell Jacob out to the PI, also didn't tell Jacob that a PI was poking around. That has long puzzled me, but perhaps it's explained by lingering resentment, at some level, towards Jacob?

 

It isn't surprising that each of them seem to have their own "versions" of what actually happened. Indeed, IMHO it would be surprising if they didn't.

 

 

Oh thats right, you haven't seen that part yet just remember things aren't always as they seem. having said that who left who high and dry? Jacob never went back to the school. Cody did. The two of them, In my opinion, could have tried harder to remain in contact.

 

Steve

[steph]

...and some activities are better when two people are involved.

well, that's an understatement! I can't think of much that isn't!

 

Jacob never went back to the school. Cody did. The two of them, In my opinion, could have tried harder to remain in contact.

I specifically remember Jacob telling Matt (or Valerie?) that Cody took the easy way out the the situation and dropped Jacob like a hot potato. Did they really not talk again at all? Am I confusing this w/ Duncan's story? *sigh* They say the memory is the first thing to go... I'll have to go look it up when I get home...

Edited June 20, 2008 by steph291

[C James]

Sorry, did Cody give him that impression, or did Jonathan produce it all on his little lonesome? Who "Dumps" who when they think they found something better? In that vein who comes running back when the something better doesn't work out?

 

Hrmmm, I thought Cody dumped Jonathon? And is it Cody who comes back?

 

Awww, but Cj as soon as you have given up on something mentally, you are much more likely to give up on something physically. Sure it took the social lubrication of alcohol for Julies resolve to snap. Joe almost made the same mistake, he just happened to be a lot closer to a amiable resolution then Julie was. What would have happened had Cody not showered? What would have happened had Joe gone in that door instead?

 

Good points... What would have happened? Given Joe's mindset at those times, yeah, had Cody shown any romantic interest...

 

but what did she feel guilty about? Was it that she cheated on Joe, or was it that it had been with a person whose name, or general description, she cant remember.

I recall the mention of the boxers on the floor, and the realization that they weren't Joe's. To me, I got the impression that she was guilty for both reasons.

 

Oh thats right, you haven't seen that part yet just remember things aren't always as they seem. having said that who left who high and dry? Jacob never went back to the school. Cody did. The two of them, In my opinion, could have tried harder to remain in contact.

 

Hrmmm... BUT, Jacob tried to contact Cody.

 

From the narration of LIS, Ch 01,

Jacob only nodded weekly. He understood what she was saying. He even knew that Cody was indeed gone for good. Cody's parents wouldn't even give Jacob the phone number or the address so he could attempt to stay in contact. It wasn't for Jacob's lack of trying though. He had even tried to email Cody half a dozen times in the last week, just to let him know that he and his mother were moving south. All of the emails were returned; user unknown.

 

So, what means did Jacob have? I'd say he at least had grounds to believe that Cody wanted nothing more to do with him. Jacob couldn't return to the school, as I recall.

 

Hrmmm....

[Conner]

Superb story, Steve, and beautifully written.

 

 

Conner

[Benji]

Sadly I had to show Julie as the baddy this go round, but whose mind wandered first?

 

 

"Jacob," he smiled warmly as he pulled on his own helmet, straddled the bike and fired it into life before looking at her expectantly.

 

......I fear his Shadowyness is leading us astray, do I see a hint an evil chapter coming up?? Yet another motorcycle accident is in the wings ( well, if can call a Yamaha a motorcycle!!) His misdirection is evident, Joe outside walking around in nothing but his boxers, Julie is already forgotten, indeed whose mind wandered first. I trust his Shadowyness is up to his evil cliffhanging ways, while we are being blinded by trust.

Edited June 24, 2008 by Benji

[Tiger]

Ben, that would not surprise me at all. His Shadowyness does happen to love misdirection and evil cliffhangery as he and The Goat are the resident masters of both.

[Benji]

Ben, that would not surprise me at all. His Shadowyness does happen to love misdirection and evil cliffhangery as he and The Goat are the resident masters of both.

 

 

.........Yes, I fear his silence is only the prelude to something truely evil and cliffhanging in his next chapter!! 'Gasp' could it be that he is threatening to reclaim his throne!!!!

Edited June 24, 2008 by Benji

[C James]

"Jacob," he smiled warmly as he pulled on his own helmet, straddled the bike and fired it into life before looking at her expectantly.

 

......I fear his Shadowyness is leading us astray, do I see a hint an evil chapter coming up?? Yet another motorcycle accident is in the wings ( well, if can call a Yamaha a motorcycle!!) His misdirection is evident, Joe outside walking around in nothing but his boxers, Julie is already forgotten, indeed whose mind wandered first. I trust his Shadowyness is up to his evil cliffhanging ways, while we are being blinded by trust.

 

I think you're right, Benji!!! His Shadowyness is indeed up to something! Misdirection with a distraction... Yes, he would do that, and he's so good at it!!!

 

.........Yes, I fear he silence is only the prelude to something truely evil and cliffhanging in his next chapter!! 'Gasp' could it be that he is threatening to reclaim his throne!!!!

 

Yes, this is true!! He's said to want his throne back, and here he is making a move for it... I'd also like to point out that his timing is most auspicious; July 5th is the one-year anniversary of LiS 26, the Mother of All Cliffhangers! Yes indeed, I think he's making a move, and wants his throne back in time for the anniversary.

[Benji]

I think you're right, Benji!!! His Shadowyness is indeed up to something! Misdirection with a distraction... Yes, he would do that, and he's so good at it!!!

 

 

 

Yes, this is true!! He's said to want his throne back, and here he is making a move for it... I'd also like to point out that his timing is most auspicious; July 5th is the one-year anniversary of LiS 26, the Mother of All Cliffhangers! Yes indeed, I think he's making a move, and wants his throne back in time for the anniversary.

 

 

......Of course, his anniversary of the most shocking cliffhanger of them all, he's been brooding for a year?? This sounds very onimious, stand quick his Shadowyness is Back!

[Graeme]

Please... let's put a bit of rationality back into this discussion.

 

Shadowgod is a fantastic author, and he really gets us feeling for his characters. He'll put them through some trials -- look at what Cody is already going through -- but he also cares for his characters. Unlike some others, he's never killed a significant character, and only given one major injuries (and he survived them).

 

Leave him alone and stop scaremongering

[C James]

Please... let's put a bit of rationality back into this discussion.

 

Shadowgod is a fantastic author, and he really gets us feeling for his characters. He'll put them through some trials -- look at what Cody is already going through -- but he also cares for his characters. Unlike some others, he's never killed a significant character, and only given one major injuries (and he survived them).

 

Leave him alone and stop scaremongering

 

Shadowgod is indeed a fantastic author! That's what makes trying to prognosticate so much fun!

 

I've never meant to imply that he uses too many cliffhangers; quite the contrary; in a display of his consummate literary skill, he save the big ones for when needed. However, when he decidedes to give us a cliffie, it's a doozie, and that's all part of why he is unrivaled at the precipice-dangling art.

 

Oh, BTW, never killed a major character? I beg to differ. He has indeed done so, in one of his short stories. (I won't mention which one, as that would be a spoiler, and I fear your anti-spoiler spines).

 

CJ

[wildone]

Shadowgod is indeed a fantastic author! That's what makes trying to prognosticate so much fun!

 

I've never meant to imply that he uses too many cliffhangers; quite the contrary; in a display of his consummate literary skill, he save the big ones for when needed. However, when he decidedes to give us a cliffie, it's a doozie, and that's all part of why he is unrivaled at the precipice-dangling art.

 

Oh, BTW, never killed a major character? I beg to differ. He has indeed done so, in one of his short stories. (I won't mention which one, as that would be a spoiler, and I fear your anti-spoiler spines).

 

CJ

 

Then why do you scream "cliffhanger" at the end of every chapter???

[Benji]

Please... let's put a bit of rationality back into this discussion.

 

Shadowgod is a fantastic author, and he really gets us feeling for his characters. He'll put them through some trials -- look at what Cody is already going through -- but he also cares for his characters. Unlike some others, he's never killed a significant character, and only given one major injuries (and he survived them).

 

Leave him alone and stop scaremongering

 

 

.....Of course Steve is a fantastic author, I never said anything to the contrary. Scaremongering?? That word definately belongs in that thread about unused old terms

[shadowgod]

Shadowgod is indeed a fantastic author! That's what makes trying to prognosticate so much fun!

 

I've never meant to imply that he uses too many cliffhangers; quite the contrary; in a display of his consummate literary skill, he save the big ones for when needed. However, when he decidedes to give us a cliffie, it's a doozie, and that's all part of why he is unrivaled at the precipice-dangling art.

 

Oh, BTW, never killed a major character? I beg to differ. He has indeed done so, in one of his short stories. (I won't mention which one, as that would be a spoiler, and I fear your anti-spoiler spines).

 

CJ

 

I beg to differ, it may have been a character but I would disagree about his level of importance. I mean he was only physically in what 1 scene?

[C James]

I beg to differ, it may have been a character but I would disagree about his level of importance. I mean he was only physically in what 1 scene?

 

Well, um, yes.. But he certainly adds to the high body count in your stories.

[steph]

Well, um, yes.. But he certainly adds to the high body count in your stories.

CJ, which universe do you live in that '1' is a high number?

[C James]

CJ, which universe do you live in that '1' is a high number?

 

Psssst, Steph, have you read Prelude to Destiny? If yo, you might be, shall we say, slightly numerically challenged?

[steph]

Psssst, Steph, have you read Prelude to Destiny? If yo, you might be, shall we say, slightly numerically challenged?

I thought we were talking about major characters?

[D and B]

What intrigues me is the assumption on the part of some readers that Julie did the nasty with Jacob. She wakes up in a strange bed from a drunken party, and Jacob offers her a ride. Apparently, Julie's closest female friend in SF is Valerie.

 

And, of course, we already have had Joe playing Cody's boyfriend, back in Klamath Falls, to scam Raul (that's Raul not Saul) -- and Cody's interior thought that it's a dream that might sometime come true.

 

Essentially we had:

Cody: Sacramento > Klamath Falls > San Francisco

Jacob: Sacramento > alternative high school > Oak Valley

 

What will happen when Jacob and Cody come face to face? Something, uh, surreal, I'm sure. We already know where Jacob's head is on this; he had to answer that question already. But where's Cody's head? Has he really gotten over Jacob? I look forward to some interesting developments here.

 

In the future: Saul's business is threatened by Offshore Baking's introduction of tequila bagels. Cody learns that he does best when he doesn't try to think things through but instead acts on, uh, instinct.

 

And exactly what role is Benji going to play in all this?

[steph]

What intrigues me is the assumption on the part of some readers that Julie did the nasty with Jacob.

You're right, this is definitely not true. Jacab was just waiting nicely to give her a ride home. I believe the guy was still asleep in the bed?

 

And, of course, we already have had Joe playing Cody's boyfriend, back in Klamath Falls, to scam Raul (that's Raul not Saul) -- and Cody's interior thought that it's a dream that might sometime come true.

good catch! but Joe wasn't aware of that scam, right?

 

What will happen when Jacob and Cody come face to face? Something, uh, surreal, I'm sure. We already know where Jacob's head is on this; he had to answer that question already. But where's Cody's head? Has he really gotten over Jacob? I look forward to some interesting developments here.

me, too! me, too!

[Drewbie]

THere is probably going to be some resentment on both sides, what could of been.