Straight Acting

[JJFlame]

So I went to Craigslist earlier, kind of bored so I figured why not. And went to the M4M section. And there was one phrase that kept popping up again and again and again: straight acting. Let me just say, that I think the phrase in itself is offensive. It seems to presuppose that everyone who gay acts a certain way, and to act differently you're pretending to be straight. And on the flip side, puts down the people who act feminine or 'gay' (in the way I am sure they mean) because their prefereces exclude them as a main criteria. I understand that there are certain things that guys like, but what is this fantasy that gay guys play out about straight guys? If you're gay, date a gay guy. It doesn't matter how he acts, find someone you like, finding someone you like is more important than how they act. If masculinity is important to you, say you want a masculine guy, not a straight acting guy.

 

 

/rant over

Edited June 27, 2009 by JJFlame

[LongGone]

I disagree. I don't want a guy who acts like a girl -- that's what girls are for. I have no problem with anyone being who they want to be. But if I'm going to pick a guy to get involved with, I don't want a guy who swishes as he walks and does the Hollywood Gay Stereotype act. If I want a girl, I'll date a girl (and I have!)

 

Straight acting is a very simple pair of words that explains what a guy wants. If that's what someone wants, good for them. If not, that's okay too. There's nothing offensive about it.

 

I think you're getting bent over nothing. My two cents

[Hoskins]

I think that a large percentage of people on Craigslist that are looking for a hookup are deeply closeted.

 

Maybe a non-"straight acting" or effeminate male is a problem for them.

 

*butches up*

[JJFlame]

What we say and how we say it is important. This might be trivial, as I'm sure it is, but overall there are very negative stigmas attached to gay people in our society. Just look at the way teenage boys all over the country refer to things they don't like as "gay" and spend their time calling each other faggots. How do you think they would feel when they finally DO meet a gay guy with all of that negative connotation so deeply ingrained in their heads. And then even GAY guys dont want guys who seem gay, they want guys who 'act straight'. I'm wondering how gay guys would feel about gay guys who 'act gay' if they didn't catch such a hard time for coming off as gay.

Edited June 27, 2009 by JJFlame

[Arpeggio]

I say things like "that's gay" and I'm hardly straight

[Mark Arbour]

What we say and how we say it is important. This might be trivial, as I'm sure it is, but overall there are very negative stigmas attached to gay people in our society. Just look at the way teenage boys all over the country refer to things they don't like as "gay" and spend their time calling each other faggots. How do you think they would feel when they finally DO meet a gay guy with all of that negative connotation so deeply ingrained in their heads. And then even GAY guys dont want guys who seem gay, they want guys who 'act straight'. I'm wondering how gay guys would feel about gay guys who 'act gay' if they didn't catch such a hard time for coming off as gay.

 

So are you saying that preferring a man who is more masculine, or acts that way, is somehow discriminatory?

[hh5]

Kinda think CL pick up is a bit risky or dangerous

 

But any way - I'm so straight acting - even my college room mate years later was shocked that I was gay.

 

If people could just be themselves (if there wasn't any incrimination) then it be easier to hook up.

[Nephylim]

Just proves the power of language. Bear in mind it only has the power we assign to it.

[JJFlame]

So are you saying that preferring a man who is more masculine, or acts that way, is somehow discriminatory?

 

I'm not saying that. I'm saying, rather badly apparently, that I think the language we use subtly changes the way gay guys act and carry themselves because they feel that they wont be accepted or seen as attractive if they're too 'gay'. Isn't it bad enough that we've got such a huge portion of society that doesn't want us to be gay? Why are we reinforcing that ourselves by calling the men we find sexy 'straight acting' when masculinity isn't a trait that's exclusive to heterosexuals?

Edited June 27, 2009 by JJFlame

[Mark Arbour]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying, rather badly apparently, that I think the language we use subtly changes the way gay guys act and carry themselves because they feel that they wont be accepted or seen as attractive if they're too 'gay'. Isn't it bad enough that we've got such a huge portion of society that doesn't want us to be gay? Why are we reinforcing that ourselves by calling the men we find sexy 'straight acting' when masculinity isn't a trait that's exclusive to heterosexuals?

 

So it is the term, straight-acting, that irritates you, not the fact that men are attracted to masculine men and not feminine men? I can see that.

 

I wanted to understand what you meant, because the other interpretation, that it's wrong to prefer a masculine man to an effeminate man, is bunk. That would be like saying to a gay man that you should prefer, well, a woman. Preferences are just that.

[Aeroplane]

Straight acting is just a descriptive term which has come to mean 'I am not one of those gay people who is extremely flamboyant.'

 

re: masculine vs straight acting.. there are two words for a lot of things.

 

Where is the problem?

[tomon]

Maybe it's the use of the term "acting" as though they're putting on an act? I guess by just looking at the 2 words together it would involved someone not being themself.

 

I understand why you could maybe be rubbed the wrong way by it but I think it's just the way language has evolved and it has come to be the common term to describe a gay guy who has all the stereotypical interests and mannerisms of a straight male.

 

I personally don't take offense to the term as all my interests are deemed by society as "straight" and not gay. I'm "straight-acting" and those who would say otherwise is because I ocassionally "act gay" when I'm in certain moods/around certain people (meh I'm their only non-hetero friend so I'm very tongue in cheek about it).

 

Straight acting as a term could be construed to be some effeminate gay guy butching up and pretending hes a mans man who drinks beer instead of cosmos, but really it's just a time saver for us modern day lazy folk who find writing "I personally find most attractive, a homosexual male who has the mannerisms and interests of what society perceives as those most commonly found in heterosexual men".

 

Straight-acting isn't an offensive term, just a compact one that maybe gets lost in translation.

[Graeme]

I can see both JJFlame's and WriteByMyself's views on this.

 

1. Is the term "straight-acting" putting down those people who are not?

 

I have a personal distaste for mixing up effeminate with homosexual. The two are not synonyms. While a good percentage of effeminate guys are gay, not all are, and definitely not all homosexuals are effeminate. The term "straight-acting" is reinforcing the view that gay means effeminate, which I disagree with.

 

2. Is the term "straight-acting" as simple way to express a preference for the sort of person you would like to hook up with?

 

Definitely. It specifies a subset of all homosexuals that a person is attracted to. As such, within the gay community, it has its uses. Now, I personally don't think that it's a particular good way to decide on a partner, but I acknowledge that everyone has prefernces for what they are attracted to, and what turns them off. As an example, I find beards a turn off, unless it's just a heavy stubble, which I can find attractive (hey, whoever said that attractions had to make sense?) That says nothing about whether beards are worthwhile or despicable -- just my personal view of what I'm attracted to. And, naturally, there is always exceptions, because personality is probably more important than physical appearance (though physical appearance is very important for first impressions).

 

Thinking about it, I believe "straight-acting" is probably less offensive than "non-effeminate" which is really what those ads are saying. And expression a view of what someone is attracted to, or an attribute of themselves that they feel others will find attractive, is not wrong.

 

In summary, both view points are legitimate in their own contexts. And I think Hoskins is right as far as those ads are concerned. The person is looking for someone that, if spotted by someone they know, can just say they're just a friend. They don't want questions raised about why they are with someone who is effeminate (which gets back to the societal view that effeminate means gay).

[Hoskins]

Well, to put a more uh, personal note on it, I'm about half out of the closet because of work. And my mannerisms are masculine, most people are pretty surprised that I'm gay.

 

People are people. Some of those screaming, hopping, bouncy skippy queens at the Pride celebrations can certainly make my skin crawl. Mainly I feel embarrassed about their behavior. I also get embarrassed by the leather daddies in collars and harnesses on a public street.. I guess it's just "extreme" behavior that bugs me. Who knows? But if I ditched friends because of the way they are, I'd be one lonely man.

 

I am not (usually) attracted to effeminate men, although both of my boyfriends were pretty effeminate - which just proves my point I guess. If you put out, you're in! Or maybe it's because my boyfriends were friends before we got together.

 

I think people that put others down for their mannerisms are wrong for doing it. I also think gay people shouldn't look down on bi or TG people, lesbians shouldn't look down on gay guys, etc.

 

Can't we all just get along?

 

*hugs forum*

Edited June 28, 2009 by Hoskins

[methodwriter85]

I think that a large percentage of people on Craigslist that are looking for a hookup are deeply closeted.

 

That's so true. It's kinda sad. Being in the closet is gay.

Edited June 28, 2009 by methodwriter85

[Krista]

I agree, I don't think its offensive. It just transitioned from labeling a person, masculine. It is though, a bit more offensive and I can see where it won't be accepted in some social circles as correct/appropriate terminology. It is being more universally accepted, when I mean masculine I say, "Straight-acting," but that stereotypes straight and masculine men, as well as the masculine gay men.

 

But anyway, definitely a preference. Everyone has those and shouldn't be offended when you don't fit the preferences of certain other people.. there are a lot of people that will share your preferences and will be looking for what "you" are..

 

I know I don't get offended (too much) when "you gays" tell me that I'm not your type.. haha..

[W_L]

I agree, I don't think its offensive. It just transitioned from labeling a person, masculine. It is though, a bit more offensive and I can see where it won't be accepted in some social circles as correct/appropriate terminology. It is being more universally accepted, when I mean masculine I say, "Straight-acting," but that stereotypes straight and masculine men, as well as the masculine gay men.

 

But anyway, definitely a preference. Everyone has those and shouldn't be offended when you don't fit the preferences of certain other people.. there are a lot of people that will share your preferences and will be looking for what "you" are..

 

I know I don't get offended (too much) when "you gays" tell me that I'm not your type.. haha..

 

I do like having female friends, just don't expect to change me, hehe.

 

This topic is interesting, how can you really ascribe "straight acting" anymore? Metro-sexual fashions have overridden the effeminate connection with gay guys. Since the people emulating the style like feminine characteristics, but they are straight; I can't see a real line of difference.

 

They might not wear wigs or dresses as it is not part of the style, but I can count a few metro-sexual guys that would make you doubt their sexuality based on their mannerism.

 

As for preferences, I agree that everyone has their own preference and straight guys are sexy to me, because they are the guys that I can not have. The captain of the diving team in high school was one of my first straight crushes; I knew he was straight due to his numerous infidelities with his girlfriends (ah high school). I would make the forbidden fruit argument that the guys, you cannot have, are the ones wanted most.

 

There are other preferences people have: Twinks, Studs, bears, Daddies (Scary thought), Fems, and others. I might like Twinks and studs, but other people might prefer bears for their own reasons, so it is really the individual.

[AFriendlyFace]

So I went to Craigslist earlier, kind of bored so I figured why not. And went to the M4M section. And there was one phrase that kept popping up again and again and again: straight acting. Let me just say, that I think the phrase in itself is offensive. It seems to presuppose that everyone who gay acts a certain way, and to act differently you're pretending to be straight. And on the flip side, puts down the people who act feminine or 'gay' (in the way I am sure they mean) because their prefereces exclude them as a main criteria. I understand that there are certain things that guys like, but what is this fantasy that gay guys play out about straight guys? If you're gay, date a gay guy. It doesn't matter how he acts, find someone you like, finding someone you like is more important than how they act. If masculinity is important to you, say you want a masculine guy, not a straight acting guy.

 

 

/rant over

 

Well personally I completely and totally agree with you!

 

 

I think the term is very offensive. I think the attitude that tends to go with it is pretty offensive too.

 

 

Certainly it's fine to prefer a particular type of guy, but I think it's better to describe what you want instead of throwing around vague, insulting terms. For example I have seen listings that said something to the effect of, "I'm looking for a guy I can chill with, have a few beers, watch the game, and see what happens from there." I don't find that offensive in the least. I also think it's generally better because it lets the other person know right away what sorts of things they can expect.

 

"Straight acting?" Does that mean we're going to go cruising for girls before we hook up?

 

 

 

 

Anyway, apart from all that, I'm just not interested in straight guys or these "straight acting" guys. Honestly I think I'd get really frustrated and annoyed with a "straight acting" boyfriend. I'd certainly be annoyed if he were closeted and always trying to prove his masculinity. Even if he's more chill about it the type of guys I like aren't overly "masculine" in the traditional way. I don't generally like facial or body hair. I prefer a guy with a smaller build. I also strongly value open, honest communication and expression of feelings and thoughts. I also generally appreciate a guy who "takes care of himself." All in all, I want a gay guy.

 

Of course that's just my preference and I'm fine with people having other preferences, but I completely agree that throwing out terms like "straight acting" is really offensive.

 

What we say and how we say it is important. This might be trivial, as I'm sure it is, but overall there are very negative stigmas attached to gay people in our society. Just look at the way teenage boys all over the country refer to things they don't like as "gay" and spend their time calling each other faggots. How do you think they would feel when they finally DO meet a gay guy with all of that negative connotation so deeply ingrained in their heads. And then even GAY guys dont want guys who seem gay, they want guys who 'act straight'. I'm wondering how gay guys would feel about gay guys who 'act gay' if they didn't catch such a hard time for coming off as gay.

I say things like "that's gay" and I'm hardly straight

 

I think there's a really big cultural/generational thing here. Actually, I would have expected JJ's age group to be more ambivalent about the expression. It's barely acceptable for some people in my general age bracket to say it, so I would think that it's mildly more acceptable for people a few years younger. Regardless, I think that most people who are any older than me are going to have a very different reaction than people your age.

 

I've thought about it a great deal because I'm generally extremely fascinated by culture and society and how various groups express themselves. I don't think it is offensive for you to say it. I don't even think it's necessarily offensive for a straight person your age to say it. I do think think it's offensive for a straight 40 year old to say it. That's because it means something very different in your culture versus his/hers.

 

By the same token, I think - depending on how it's done - that it's okay for gay people to use what would generally be considered gay offensive language with each other. A simple example is that I can easily get away with laughing and calling one of my friends a "queen" or a "flamer" or even a "F**" because I'm gay and because there's the obvious understanding that I'm joking, that I like the person, and that I don't have negative feelings toward gays in general.

 

By "gay" here I do mean "culturally gay" versus simply "homosexual." For example I think it's okay for a "fag hag" or other straight ally to do the same thing. Again this is because the person has explicitly stood up for gay rights in the past, is saying it jokingly to someone they like, and is obviously not harboring negative feelings towards gays. I think that in that way straight allies can be "culturally gay" to some extent and certainly to the extent that they should be able to say and do things that "gay negative" or even "gay neutral" people can't and shouldn't.

 

By the same token, I think that it isn't necessarily okay for a "homosexual" but non "culturally gay" person to say and do those same things. This person might be a big closet case who looks down his nose at gays and has tons of homophobic feelings and negative attitudes toward gays and gay culture. If that sort of homosexual person used a gay expletive then I'd be pissed, even if they did try to play it off. Simply put if I were aware of their negative feelings and outlook on gays, then regardless of their own sexuality I don't think they have the right to joke about it or try to make light of the situation. Obviously they can say whatever they like since it's a free country, but I would find it offensive, would not want to associate with them further, and would probably express my disapproval.

 

Also, let me be clarify that I don't think simply being in the closet makes someone homophobic and negative toward gays. Certainly there are some out homosexuals who still have negative feelings toward gays and would similarly incur my wrath. I guess all I'm really saying is that before someone jokes about it, I think it's important that they "own it" and belong to the group and do something for it. Their actual sexuality is irrelevant; it's their feelings, attitudes, and motivation.

Edited June 28, 2009 by AFriendlyFace

[Cynical Romantic]

Interesting topic.

 

It's all just shorthand, though. Labels based on society's stereotypes, which are bound to be offensive by their very nature. Hell, as a woman, I could argue that I find the term "effeminate" offensive, because it means "female-acting", which implies that all women act a certain way, which, of course, is not true either.

 

But, bottom line: If you're looking for inoffensive political correctness and you're on Craigslist, you're probably in the wrong place.

[corvus]

If masculinity is important to you, say you want a masculine guy, not a straight acting guy.

 

You could just as easily critique usage of the word 'masculine,' because it implies that a man who limps his wrist is less of a man than someone who doesn't. Although yeah, I find the straight-guy fascination kind of strange and unappealing.

 

 

But, bottom line: If you're looking for inoffensive political correctness and you're on Craigslist, you're probably in the wrong place.

 

Very true. Haha.

[DragonFire]

To be honest I think this is all a fuss about nothing. I really don't find the term offensive at all, I mean would you prefer someone to use say 'Non camp guys'? Still means exactly the same!

[Excuse]

Maybe it's the use of the term "acting" as though they're putting on an act? I guess by just looking at the 2 words together it would involved someone not being themself.

 

I understand why you could maybe be rubbed the wrong way by it but I think it's just the way language has evolved and it has come to be the common term to describe a gay guy who has all the stereotypical interests and mannerisms of a straight male.

 

I personally don't take offense to the term as all my interests are deemed by society as "straight" and not gay. I'm "straight-acting" and those who would say otherwise is because I ocassionally "act gay" when I'm in certain moods/around certain people (meh I'm their only non-hetero friend so I'm very tongue in cheek about it).

 

Straight acting as a term could be construed to be some effeminate gay guy butching up and pretending hes a mans man who drinks beer instead of cosmos, but really it's just a time saver for us modern day lazy folk who find writing "I personally find most attractive, a homosexual male who has the mannerisms and interests of what society perceives as those most commonly found in heterosexual men".

 

Straight-acting isn't an offensive term, just a compact one that maybe gets lost in translation.

 

I especially like the lost in translation bit...

I agree with most ppl, loada fuss about nout.

[rknapp]

See, being gay, I want to be with boys. Luckily John is very much a boy... he genuinely likes sports. Now if I can just get him off the idea of sending me to a hair salon when my hair gets long, we'll be good to go! hehe

 

Personally I think the term "straight acting" has no real meaning. The term itself suggests that there are things that straight people do which no gay person does, and that's entirely false. Straight men love cars and sports. John loves sports. I love cars. We're both completely gay. Big deal.

[myself_i_must_remake]

i'm struggling a lot with this lately as well.

 

(okay kids. let's keep in mind: this is billy plus a bottle of wine talking.)

 

the more i read, the more i want to do away with terms "masculine," "feminine," "gay-acting," "straight-acting," etc.

 

but then i don't.

 

race and racism suffers a similar dilemma. here's why:

 

on the one hand difference creates room for oppression. as soon as one thing is different than another, there is always a type of person who will say that one is better than the other. but on the other hand, i like difference because hey, we ARE gay. in this time and culture, that sets us apart. why shouldn't we have our own culture.

 

(then i wonder: in the future, would i still want my sexuality to be enough to set me apart so much that i want it to make me part of a culture?)

 

i've been avoiding calling people flamboyant or passing as straight because i don't like everything that it implies as stated above: it makes flamboyance a bad thing, it operates on a standardized definition of masculinity, and it encourages homophobia.

 

i do this, yet when i go out in public, i look for all the stereotypes when i hope to hit on someone.

 

so i'm trying to eliminate the same linguistic phenomenon that i use when i "hunt."

 

recent example: new twenty-two year old manager at work has a slightly "gay" voice and sure i've got my eye on him.

 

but then i'm part of the group of people who doesn't want voice to be any indicator of sexuality.

 

what to dooooooo?

[KJames]

I've given up on the "straight acting" label...it just never works...the guy would be jeans and a t-shirt guy, and so effeminate that it'd just kill the mood...conversely, my biggest turn-on was a guy, smaller than myself, who looked effeminate, but only acted very shyly, who was quite well-endowed and knew very well what to do with it...just my luck he was looking for leather guys...

 

Some years later I learned to "go out" with someone for a show or dinner or something social just to see if there was common ground...there are a lot of nice people out there, but the label straight-acting really would only apply to someone who would only date the opposite sex...