Gay Stereotypes

[Wynter]

So, I was at a party last night and it's become something of a tradition for me to turn up with a gigantic basket of alcohol that I jointly maintain with a friend. This basket is full of spirits and liqueurs that I use to make shots/cocktails. This has lead to all sorts of comments about gay guys knowing how to make drinks, having good taste etc from my straight friends. Oddly enough, the same comments are not made about the straight friend I share the drinks with, who also enjoys cocktails.

 

At one point I was able to get another friend to try to talk his way into a pink stretch Hummer full of women by offering free 'gay drinks' for the rest of the night if he was successful. He failed because a security guard from the pub (who looked a LOT like Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction, full afro and all) came over and scared him off. I still made him the drinks though.

 

So, this got me to thinking about things. I don't mind that people think I'm good at making drinks, but it's kind of annoying that everything I do gets linked back to my sexuality. I'm probably the least campy gay guy you'll ever meet but people still make these annoying assumptions.

 

This isn't a big deal for me but it's something that, in certain situations, can be really annoying because even though these are generally positive stereotypes, they're still within the same mindset that the negative sterotypes come from.

 

Does anyone else find this sort of thing irritating? I'm just curious as to whether other people have this reaction. Maybe I'm just grumpy

 

Wynter

Edited February 28, 2010 by Wynter

[John Doe]

Heh, for me it's gotten to a point where the people who exhibits those stereotypes kind of annoy me. Please don't add to the already skewed picture. High voice pitch and walk with the swinging hips, but somehow drag queens are alright with me... I'm a complicated person. >.< But yes it is annoying that people correlate things with a sexuality or aspect of a person as if those qualities don't exist if it was otherwise. Like he's only good at math because he's Asian or he's good at basketball because he's black, etc. It's the same with being gay. Dressing good and knowing how to mix drinks, cook, sew, etc isn't due to the fact that a person is gay. It's a hobby or interest and like any interests of a person, they're gonna know what they'll be doing.

[Tiger]

John, again I say that those who have a problem with the more effeminate (stereotypically) gay men have some issues with internalized homophobia. They are actual people with actual feelings, and they can't really help it. I'm not trying to beat you up or anything, but people are people, and they should be treated accordingly. Who knows? An effeminate gay man might even become your best friend one day or maybe something more. They need lovin' too you know.

 

Wynter, as far as what your friend did, that was not nice. Drinks are not gay. They are drinks. Supposedly mixed drinks are supposed to be for women and gay men, but screw that. People drink what they like to drink. I've seen women (and no not lesbians) who can drink beer like it's water and men who enjoy a good bottle of wine (some presumably straight). I find it irritating too. I think a lot of people here will share your sentiments.

[Fishwings]

Hrmm. What bothers me actually is that some of these stereotypes DO seem to exist.

 

It seems that a large majority of the boys I know who exhibit these feminine qualities have turned out to be gay/bi. I'm fully aware that some of these people who exhibit these stereotypical qualities are straight, and that some people who possess none of these quirks/traits are gay....

 

But, why : 0?

[hh5]

hehe - welcome back to "Archie Bunkers Place"

 

or "Why can the american learn the Queens English??"

[Daisy139]

I agree with what has been said about stereotypes and that positive, neutral, and obviously negative stereotypes suck. And unfortunately I have to plead guilty on some of those myself. A couple years ago I worked at a figure skating competition and was introduced to a guy my age, and before he even said "hi" I had determined that obviously he was gay (which I became even more sure about when he started talking with a somewhat more stereotypically feminine intonation). Oh yeah, I might add he was also dressed too tastefully to be straight.

 

Turns out he is straight as an arrow and hit on me like I was the last woman on this planet...and I didn't realize it until it was almost too late. That certainly taught me a lesson.

 

Stereotypes prevent us from seeing beyond people's surface appearance, even if they're something positive, and that way we miss out on so much more that we could see in a person.

[writeincode]

Hrmm. What bothers me actually is that some of these stereotypes DO seem to exist.

 

It seems that a large majority of the boys I know who exhibit these feminine qualities have turned out to be gay/bi. I'm fully aware that some of these people who exhibit these stereotypical qualities are straight, and that some people who possess none of these quirks/traits are gay....

 

But, why : 0?

 

Why does the existence of feminine gay males bother you? Why is it a bad thing if there are feminine or stylish males in the LGBT community? Take it in stride. Better style than any number of other things.

[myself_i_must_remake]

it frustrates me because i don't know whether they really are born-in or if we grow into them.

 

particularly the well-dressed thing bothers me because from what i've seen, a lot of gays that pride themselves on dressing well don't really dress well (in my opinion), they dress to a formula which tends to look like:

 

expensive jeans plus dress shoes plus belt plus t-shirt under a button-up shirt that has a pattern with a color from the undershirt.

 

and then they judge people outside that formula. at least that's an experience i've witnessed enough times to be pissed by it.

 

like that douchebag from what not to wear. i can't stand how safely he dresses, then criticizes others.

 

but i struggle with the stereotypes as well, for a lot of reasons that i can't really get into here. sometimes i think three years i ago i would hate who i've become, basically.

[KJames]

it frustrates me because i don't know whether they really are born-in or if we grow into them.

 

particularly the well-dressed thing bothers me because from what i've seen, a lot of gays that pride themselves on dressing well don't really dress well (in my opinion), they dress to a formula which tends to look like:

 

expensive jeans plus dress shoes plus belt plus t-shirt under a button-up shirt that has a pattern with a color from the undershirt.

 

and then they judge people outside that formula. at least that's an experience i've witnessed enough times to be pissed by it.

 

like that douchebag from what not to wear. i can't stand how safely he dresses, then criticizes others.

 

but i struggle with the stereotypes as well, for a lot of reasons that i can't really get into here. sometimes i think three years i ago i would hate who i've become, basically.

 

Gay stereotype? Gimme my jeans and a t-shirt, underwear and crew socks...velcro shoes...I've never been a slave to 'fashion' (a fancy word meaning: Noun. Clothing with a suitably high price to scare off those who wouldn't be caught dead in them.)

[Wynter]

it frustrates me because i don't know whether they really are born-in or if we grow into them.

 

particularly the well-dressed thing bothers me because from what I've seen, a lot of gays that pride themselves on dressing well don't really dress well (in my opinion), they dress to a formula which tends to look like:

 

expensive jeans plus dress shoes plus belt plus t-shirt under a button-up shirt that has a pattern with a color from the undershirt.

 

and then they judge people outside that formula. at least that's an experience i've witnessed enough times to be pissed by it.

 

like that douchebag from what not to wear. i can't stand how safely he dresses, then criticizes others.

 

but i struggle with the stereotypes as well, for a lot of reasons that i can't really get into here. sometimes i think three years i ago i would hate who i've become, basically.

 

For someone who dislikes them so much you do seem to spend an awful lot of time looking at them.

 

On a more serious not, I think that what you're struggling with is the the idea that their idea of what a gay man is might force you to change your own. It doesn't. They have a certain style going that works for them and that they feel comfortable with. No one is saying you have to act like them. For the record, I've seen many straight guys who dress that way. In fact you basically described the clientele of some of Adelaide's biggest night clubs. Metro boys make me laugh

 

I envy them in some ways because they ARE so visible and so obvious that they can find each other so easily. I myself, am never taken for gay unless I make a fairly blunt comment or two.

 

Personally, I don't find most of them all that attractive, particularly the overly effeminate types. Not because I resent them, but because they just don't ... do it for me. I do sometimes resent being judged by their behaviour though. But that's not their fault. It's the nature of things that people judge groups by what they see. Effeminate gay guys are obvious and distinctive. Those of us with less stereotypical behaviours tend to be regarded as anomalies even though we probably make up the majority, because we are NOT visible.

 

So my basic point is don't stress. Let yourself be you and if that means a few 'feminine' characteristics, don't sweat about it.

[Arpeggio]

Let yourself be you and if that means a few 'feminine' characteristics, don't sweat about it.

 

Haha, I definitely look like a feminine gay, but as soon as I open my mouth, people get confused. I don't prefer people to stereotype me, and good luck trying. Personally, I can watch home interior design shows AND rebuild a car engine. I get the best of both worlds. =3

[NightOwl88]

For a bit of a bear cub like myself you would be surprised how many folks don't belive i'm gay because I DON'T exibit any of the so called *effeminate stereotypes* I'm not *stylish* give me jeans a t-shirt and some running shoes and I'm set I hate to shop and I listen to country and southern rock(that alst one REALLY messes with the heads for some reson).

 

Its funny though how a lot of my good qualities do get tossed in with me being gay, when folks realize it. I've been able to cook, clean, maintain a household, sew, and do laundry like a pro since I was thirteen years old and while most folks seem to attribute that to me being gay its in reality due to have a lazy a$$ slave driver for a stepdad and old world grandma.

 

I think that some stereotype are picked up as we grow and others are preseant from the time we're born (which then i don't think are stereotypes but a persons actually personality). My ex for example could be a poster child for many of the so called *gay stereotypes* He's got the effeminate voice, the *gay* style with his clothes, he knows more about fashion then most models, and he's been like that SINCE CHILDHOOD. For him its not a stereotype it is LITERALLY who he is.

 

Stereotype do exist but I think you ahve to be careful as to how you apply them, for some its not stereo, for some its who they are.

 

What really gets me though are the ones out there who actually TRY to ascribe to the *stereotypes* of being gay or lesbian becuase they think thats how it is supposed to be. Thats sad.

[clumber]

A few things have occurred to me in this thread.

 

One is that there is no good reason to dislike people for acting "effeminate". So what if its a stereotype? It isn't a reason to hate them. They can't help it, so don't go condemning them. Someone may well match a stereotype but it doesn't make it automatically an 'act'. It is very likely just who they are.

 

A person can be a stereotype but that doesn't mean it is not genuine. The stereotypes come from somewhere, you know.

 

 

Another is that...well...ok, so people relate everything back to your sexuality? It happens. People generally take a single aspect of you and use that to identify you. If this happens to be that you are gay, then everything will be connected to that in some way. Half of the comments will be jokes and none of it really matters. They are only choosing the "gay" aspect because it is the thing about you which marks you out as different to them.

With me, a lot of my friends seem to find various ways to connect everything back to me being Northern. There are not many northern people here and so it marks me as different. I really don't care. They would probably use the gay label except with my gay friends it obviously doesn't work and with my straight friends someone else got that one first. So I'm Northern.

 

 

In the long run, it really doesn't matter. Everybody gets a label and to compain about it would be incredibly hypocritical. Afterall, every single person in this thread has labeled the people they are compaining about.

 

Martin

Edited March 1, 2010 by clumber

[MalicSign]

Why does the existence of feminine gay males bother you? Why is it a bad thing if there are feminine or stylish males in the LGBT community? Take it in stride. Better style than any number of other things.

 

 

People can take offense to it as much as they want, but it is a totally legitimate question. If femininity is the degree to which a person has attributes associated typically with women, why is it that so many gay men are more feminine than straight men? That was a rhetorical question by the way, I'm not looking for an answer and don't expect one. I'm merely trying to point out that it shouldn't be considered hostile to wonder about the nature of such a large scale societal trend, so long as it isn't gone about in a deprecatory manner. I brought up that same question once in a sociology class and was immediately attacked as a homophobe, which is strange considering I'm quite positive I said nothing negative about effeminate gay guys. Most of my gay friends and former lovers are effeminate, and I certainly don't have any problems with them ; ).

[AverageCollegeGuy]

People can take offense to it as much as they want, but it is a totally legitimate question. If femininity is the degree to which a person has attributes associated typically with women, why is it that so many gay men are more feminine than straight men? That was a rhetorical question by the way, I'm not looking for an answer and don't expect one. I'm merely trying to point out that it shouldn't be considered hostile to wonder about the nature of such a large scale societal trend, so long as it isn't gone about in a deprecatory manner. I brought up that same question once in a sociology class and was immediately attacked as a homophobe, which is strange considering I'm quite positive I said nothing negative about effeminate gay guys. Most of my gay friends and former lovers are effeminate, and I certainly don't have any problems with them ; ).

 

 

first i want to begin by saying how funny it is that someone in your class is so hypocritical by calling you a homophobe, a term implying that you are negatively prejudice, when they themselves are being negatively prejudice towards you. it seems that words today are slowly loosing their meanings and becoming their connotations. thats what i like about this forum full of writers; the people on this forum truly have a way with words its so poetic (sorry, this is neither here nor there but i just had to say how much i enjoy this place).

 

 

anyway, back to my initial thoughts, i agree with you that is is "a totally legitimate question" why a large amount of homosexuals that are feminine and have an interesting angle. Well let me give some background about my fairly recent experience so that i you may see where i come from. well i was gay in the closet, until just recently my friend convinced me to come out at least to the people closest to me i.e. my sister and cousin (who are also my roommate) and my best friend that i met in college. the thing is i, myself, am not feminine at all, i'm actually the opposite and many of my friends say that i'm a guy's guy. this doesn't change the fact that i was gay, but back to the story, when i told those three people they were all shocked; my cousin, who is practically like my brother, and my sister, who is more like my cousin, but both I've been close to all my life had no suspicions at all, and my sister has found gay porn on my computer before.

 

Now the thing i'm suggesting is that perhaps a majority of the gay community is feminine because they, feminine homosexuals, are more open and comfortable with their sexuality. like me for instance, had my friend never convinced me to come out, i would probably still be in the closet, and this may be true for a lot of men out there. some gay men may live their whole lives outside the gay community or even live their whole lives with out anyone knowing they where even gay. And maybe this is just one gay man's wish but i think they're are a lot more gay guys out there than most of us may think

 

 

p.s. sorry about the long winded response, i've never really wrote this much about anything

[TetRefine]

If you let the stereotypes get to you, you are letting the homophobes win. You have to set out to prove them wrong, and sometimes kick a little ass to get your point across to the particularly stubborn ones.

[JamesSavik]

There are a few gay stereotypes that really piss me off. I won't go into them because... they piss me off.

 

Most of them revolve around gay = weak.

 

I've seen st8 people that haven't seen a fraction of the shit that I've been through just give up.

[clumber]

If you let the stereotypes get to you, you are letting the homophobes win. You have to set out to prove them wrong, and sometimes kick a little ass to get your point across to the particularly stubborn ones.

 

 

I'm sorry but I am struggling to understand what you are saying there.

 

Do you mean that we should accept the people who happen to fit the stereotypes and then set out to prove the homophobes wrong?

 

Or do you mean that we should actively fight against fitting the stereotypes in order to prove the homophobes wrong?

 

 

If the first then I fully agree.

 

If the second then I suggest you stop being so close-minded. The last thing the gay community needs is for the members of it to turn against eachother because of some ridiculous notion that being effeminate is harmful to others.

 

 

Martin

[TetRefine]

I'm sorry but I am struggling to understand what you are saying there.

 

Do you mean that we should accept the people who happen to fit the stereotypes and then set out to prove the homophobes wrong?

 

Or do you mean that we should actively fight against fitting the stereotypes in order to prove the homophobes wrong?

 

 

If the first then I fully agree.

 

If the second then I suggest you stop being so close-minded. The last thing the gay community needs is for the members of it to turn against eachother because of some ridiculous notion that being effeminate is harmful to others.

 

 

Martin

 

I mean that gay people shouldn't let people who are lazy and just stereotype us get to them. I never said that it's a bad thing to fit the stereotype, but to also show that not all of us are like that. If your effeminite then fine, good for you. And if your not, then good for you. I'm just trying to say that ones who don't fit the stereotype should prove that were all not a 'One Size Fits All' category.

.

[Robert Heylmun]

Are there good ones and bad ones? Stereotypes, I mean.

 

I'm at the age where the "daddy" stereotype has kicked in and I am either shunned by gay men who seek younger men, or sought after because I have white hair and a beard that matches. The point is that stereotypes are prejudicial (in the real sense of pre-judging) one way or the other, either of which is somehow diminishing to the stereotyped person. I'd rather be known for who I am under the white hair and inside the head that grows it.

 

On the other hand, I deplore this trend among all of society that we can't laugh at ourselves anymore. Where to draw the line, huh?

[mikeymike]

I do get annoyed. I grew up with a lisp caused by a physical problem so since second or third grade I was called sissy and queer(this was the sixty's and seventy's) all my life except by my friends. I did not come out until twenty-nine because of the way I was stereotyped throughout my school years.

[writeincode]

People can take offense to it as much as they want, but it is a totally legitimate question. If femininity is the degree to which a person has attributes associated typically with women, why is it that so many gay men are more feminine than straight men? That was a rhetorical question by the way, I'm not looking for an answer and don't expect one. I'm merely trying to point out that it shouldn't be considered hostile to wonder about the nature of such a large scale societal trend, so long as it isn't gone about in a deprecatory manner. I brought up that same question once in a sociology class and was immediately attacked as a homophobe, which is strange considering I'm quite positive I said nothing negative about effeminate gay guys. Most of my gay friends and former lovers are effeminate, and I certainly don't have any problems with them ; ).

I wasn't taking offense; I was merely curious because the person I responded to used the phrasing " What bothers me actually is" before talking about the existence of feminine gay males.

 

Meanwhile, heaps of articles come up if you do internet searches and science journal searches. All different theories of course but possibly all valid contributors.

Edited March 2, 2010 by writeincode

[KJames]

Haha, I definitely look like a feminine gay, but as soon as I open my mouth, people get confused. I don't prefer people to stereotype me, and good luck trying. Personally, I can watch home interior design shows AND rebuild a car engine. I get the best of both worlds. =3

I knew you were talented!

 

Are there good ones and bad ones? Stereotypes, I mean.

 

I'm at the age where the "daddy" stereotype has kicked in and I am either shunned by gay men who seek younger men, or sought after because I have white hair and a beard that matches. The point is that stereotypes are prejudicial (in the real sense of pre-judging) one way or the other, either of which is somehow diminishing to the stereotyped person. I'd rather be known for who I am under the white hair and inside the head that grows it.

 

On the other hand, I deplore this trend among all of society that we can't laugh at ourselves anymore. Where to draw the line, huh?

 

Like you, I hate the label more than the attribute, but I also love to laugh at myself! Religion and 'Societal Politeness' have made it almost obligatory to be glum, morose, and so sour as to make even Quakers look like they'd be having a good time in comparison.

[KiwiShadow]

Haha YES! People have used similar stereotypes against me. To be TOTALLY honest though.. I'm not really too worried about GOOD stereotypes like the one you mentioned but rather other negative ones bother me but that's just me.

 

[Former Member]

Gay stereotypes are the same as any other - Socio-political nonsense that isn't worth one iota of our attention.

 

So some gay guys are effeminate (which, judging by the characteristics used, is politically incorrect anyway). Your point is? If you look hard enough you can always find evidence of repressed habits to conform to (or suppress) your own definition of a gay stereotype.

 

If we change who we are to fit or defy a stereotype, then it is we who bear the consequences. I know that I have real issues with the idea that gay guys are all pussies, so I created a big, bad, tough guy persona and became him. Now I have to live with the disfigurement and arrest record.

 

Now that I think of it, I'm not too sure why I went to the effort. People had to get past the Russian and Communist stereotypes long before we got to gay