9.11

[rjo]

Something Mark said here and in the comments to the reviews hit me hard. Matt is alienating himself from all those who love him so that they or he don't get hurt. Is Tony the safe haven? If that is true, the alienation part, someone needs to step in. I got a vision of Jeff Hayes. alone, sad and ready to end it. Who can help? On;y one person has the power to do it, Brad.

Edited February 7, 2014 by rjo

[John Prz]

As for Matt and his biological family...I always thought it was funny how he's kind of got a reverse rags-to-riches story. Not really that he lost money, but Matt went from having a brahmin, well-respected WASP famiy, to discovering that he's actually the son that belongs to a family with serious white trash roots. That's probably why the notion of changing his name to Hayes has probably never hit Matt, because his adopted family name is much more respectable, especially if we're talking the mid-West.

 

Mhh... WOW. That is so much something here in Italy no one would even think about. 

I didn't even think about it

I have my mother's sister surname which his also kind of funny when you say to someone you're another guys brother but you have different surnames.

 

Matt don't think at himself as Matt Hayes or Matt C-whatever. He's simply Matt.

Differnetly we so how much different Wade is, he's always about keeping up to the expectation asked by his last name

 

But this is OT 

[Daddydavek]

Matt not getting any support is BS in my book.   Didn't Brad specifically ask Frank to handle that?  Hasn't JP taken some patient time and again to explain to Matt what he thinks is going on?   Wasn't he told to get counseling?

 

Matt has repeatedly pushed people away and our esteemed author has even explained that is part of how Matt is dealing with his grief.   It's pretty damn difficult to offer support to someone who shoves it in your face.

[John Prz]

Something Mark said here and in the comments to the reviews hit me hard. Matt is alienating himself from all those who love him so that they or he don't get hurt. Is Tony the safe haven? If that is true, the alienation part, someone needs to step in. I got a vision of Jeff Hayes. alone, sad and ready to end it. Who can help? On;y one person has the power to do it, Brad.

 

I would like to know how do you think he is going to do?

 

He will have to ask Mr. Copperfield for some help?

 

Brad is going to be in the middle of no one land.

 

If he does not help Matt, he will broke the promised he made to Robbie.

If he help Matt, not only Will but also Darius is going to be really pissed off at him.  

 

And my boyfriend asked Siri suggestion about the problem the response was "He will go outside" (referring to Brad) 

[Kitt]

Mhh... WOW. That is so much something here in Italy no one would even think about. 

I didn't even think about it

I have my mother's sister surname which his also kind of funny when you say to someone you're another guys brother but you have different surnames.

 

Matt don't think at himself as Matt Hayes or Matt C-whatever. He's simply Matt.

Differnetly we so how much different Wade is, he's always about keeping up to the expectation asked by his last name

 

But this is OT 

LOL nothing is really off topic in this forum! We run off on tangents all the time!

 

Matt not getting any support is BS in my book.   Didn't Brad specifically ask Frank to handle that?  Hasn't JP taken some patient time and again to explain to Matt what he thinks is going on?   Wasn't he told to get counseling?

 

Matt has repeatedly pushed people away and our esteemed author has even explained that is part of how Matt is dealing with his grief.   It's pretty damn difficult to offer support to someone who shoves it in your face.

Damn well told!

[PrivateTim]

Nope.  Tim was right

 

It only bothers me when Tim is right and I'm wrong.  At least I think it would.  Hasn't happened yet.

 

Wow, they say short term memory is the second thing to go!

[PrivateTim]

     That's probably why the notion of changing his name to Hayes has probably never hit Matt, because his adopted family name is much more respectable, especially if we're talking the mid-West.

 

Matt does not think of himself as a Hayes, because he was raised by the Carswells thinks of them has his parents and Matt never knew he was a Hayes until very late in his life. Robbie was a sperm donor turned father only very recently.

 

Matt not getting any support is BS in my book.   Didn't Brad specifically ask Frank to handle that?  Hasn't JP taken some patient time and again to explain to Matt what he thinks is going on?   Wasn't he told to get counseling?

 

Frank? The guy who was a basket case until a few days ago? That was the answer to Matt's mental health? That and "go get counseling" constitutes support?

 

Where was Will for Matt in those days and weeks after 9-11, before Tony-gate? Where was Brad? Darius & JJ? The rest of the Schluter clan?

 

I think the observation on lack of support is pretty astute.

 

As to this last chapter, I continue to be perplexed as to where things are heading and based on most of the reviews, wonder if I am reading the same story as some of the reviewers.

 

Matt didn't move out of his and Wade's quarters, Wade did and did so very publicly.

 

Wade is the one who didn't call Matt back while he was on the Georgetown trip, Wade is the one who rebuffed Matt's attempts to talk to him on the ride back from the airport. What is Matt supposed to do? Yes you can point to Matt's ignoring of Wade in the days after 9-11, but when Matt started to come around, Wade shot him down and moved out of their room. Why should he be surprised or offended that Matt is moving out of a room he no longer lives in?

 

As to Will's reaction, it is typically over the top. He is done with Tony and has been treating Matt like shit (before he just sort of tolerated Matt, never, ever treated him as a brother) so what right does he have to have any say in who Tony has a roommate? He won't even return Tony's phone call and screamed "fuck off:" in his ear? What gives him standing to be pissed off at either person?

 

I am also perplexed by the "Wade & Brad would be a good couple" crowd? Wade and Brad as in such different stages of life. Maybe they had good sex a couple of times, but that isn't a great foundation to build a relationship on.

 

Looking forward to the next book and hope it doesn't hop too far forward and sticks with the multi-narrator format.

[Hermetically Sealed]

Going to have to agree with most of what Tim said.  I understand Wade's perspective as far as Matt needing to grow up, but he has not once really given Matt a reason TO stay or try.  Everytime Matt has tried, Wade has been utterly dissmissive and condescending.  How else is Matt honestly supposed to react? I can certainly see wade's own issues contibuting to his reaction,

 

I also don't see Wade and Brad as a couple.  Two completely different stages of life, and if Wade must move on, it really should be someone in a compareable place in life. And Brad is in no place to be getting into a relationship, period. 

 

As for Will, meh, the only purpose he seems to serve is fighting with family members and sex.  Take those two aspects out and there is nothing left.   Honestly, I see very little difference in his "anger" issues.  He was every bit this volitile in Paternity, and always blows his lid whenever anyone even dare suggest the world doesn't exist in black and white extremes (except perhaps JP). 

 

Also to add, why is it Frank's job to "straighten" out anyone?  Why is it okay that everyone gets pampered for their grief, and coddled but Matt and Frank are given the worst possibly treatment by the family?  Frank was devestated by the loss of Robbie, so to fix it they all sit around and yell and belittle him?  THAT is a healthy way to help someone?  I can see that kind of reaction from Brad, in a sort of "kick him into gear" mindset, but JP, isodore or Jack?  Seems like the two are just being used to give Will his next target for fighting with.

[B1ue]

Going to have to agree with most of what Tim said.  I understand Wade's perspective as far as Matt needing to grow up, but he has not once really given Matt a reason TO stay or try.  Everytime Matt has tried, Wade has been utterly dissmissive and condescending.  How else is Matt honestly supposed to react? I can certainly see wade's own issues contibuting to his reaction,

That was kind of my reaction as well. I can certainly see Wade's side of things, but I also want to acknowledge Matt's. Or, at the very least, I want Wade to stop acting like a victim, and at least acknowledge that Matt is trying, even if it is too little, too late. Which seems to be what he's thinking but isn't saying directly to Matt.

 

That said, I also want Matt to stop acting like a victim. If he honestly can't or won't change his behavior for Wade, I want him to admit to that and admit it is contributing to the breakup.

 

I like the progress Will is making. I know I couldn't have brought myself out of a rage that quickly, so I will admire that effort on his part. I still think he's irrational in the cause of his rage, but meh. I'll just accept it as part of his character at this point.

Edited February 8, 2014 by B1ue

[rjo]

Greetings, this is my last post for a while. I am honest;y too tired of arguing. It seems like some people believe one thing and other believe something else. The going back and forth is wearing me out. So from now on I will keep I thoughts to myself. It will be better that way. Thanks Mark for all your wonderful work. Know you have brought me many hours of happiness over the years. Know that I will always follow your stories with great interest.

[Robertmarcus]

This is my first post to either the comments or forum for the entire CAP series. I faithfully read all the comments and have generally enjoyed reading all the points of view about the characters and events. However, since the Matt-Tony betrayal, I'm finding so many comments to be  so far from my life experience that I feel the need to comment myself. 

 

I do not understand all the negative comments about Will's portrayal. He is not lacking maturity. He is a 15 year old teenager in grade 10. He is far more mature than almost any 15 year old I know. I remember being 15 struggling to grow up and looking back, I think he is far beyond the vast majority of other kids his age in the maturity category. In addition, I really like him. He has so many excellent qualities. I would love to have him as a friend. 

 

I also have real difficulty understanding all the comments about Will's reaction to Matt fucking with Tony. I realize that the CAP family moral standards are somewhat different than many but I see what Matt did as the ultimate betrayal. If I had a friend who did that to me, I would write them off completely and forever. If I had a sibling do that to me, it would be worse because you are supposed to be able to rely on them to have your back at all times with no questions asked.  I'm actually disappointed in the entire group of them except for Brad and Darius.  They should all be shunning Matt for what he did.  Matt can NEVER be trusted and forfeited any right to expect any support from them.  I am 100% behind Wade kicking him to the curb. He does not deserve a place at the table. 

[B1ue]

I also have real difficulty understanding all the comments about Will's reaction to Matt fucking with Tony. I realize that the CAP family moral standards are somewhat different than many but I see what Matt did as the ultimate betrayal. If I had a friend who did that to me, I would write them off completely and forever. If I had a sibling do that to me, it would be worse because you are supposed to be able to rely on them to have your back at all times with no questions asked.  I'm actually disappointed in the entire group of them except for Brad and Darius.  They should all be shunning Matt for what he did.  Matt can NEVER be trusted and forfeited any right to expect any support from them.  I am 100% behind Wade kicking him to the curb. He does not deserve a place at the table. 

 

In the defense of the series, the character's reactions make it clear that they feel more aligned with you on this subject than with me. It isn't the CAP family's moral standards that is causing me to shrug off Matt's actions, it's my own morality. And by my own moral standards, the betrayal just isn't that big of a deal, so I have a difficult time empathizing with Will's rage in this case. That all three of our current narrators do makes that discrepancy worse, but it doesn't impair my interest in reading.

[damejintymcginty]

Hi,

 

Just noticed you have put 9.11 on hold.  I hope that the break is for pleasant reasons and not the alternative. I hope it's not too long before we return to Escorial and all its drama. My days will be less bright until then . Thanks again to Team Arbour for your hard work entertaining and educating the masses. 

 

Jinty

[sat8997]

 Happy now?

 

It would be nice if everyone remembered one word...FICTION!!!!!!!! And as strange as it may seem to you, it's Mark's fiction.

 

 

Take a large step back, a few deep breaths, and chill out.  

[Daddydavek]

OMG Sharon reads the forums and lets us get to her!  However, she does make a valid point.  It is fiction and it is Mark Arbour's story.   

 

In point of fact, he does seem to be able to handle the comments fairly well.   And for that I am grateful.  I know I'd be much more thin skinned if I thought my characters were being unjustly pilloried, dissected, and trashed.   I also realize he does sort of enjoy provoking reactions as he shown from the beginning of the CAP saga....

[Kitt]

What ever your reasons for putting  911 on hold, please know that SOME of us love the story just the way you have written it Mark. Some may get a tad out of line in their alignment for or against a character, but I think you should take that as a compliment to your writing, the ability to evoke strong emotions in your readers.

 

Your fans will be here waiting patiently for the return of updates.

[KevinD]

I am sure that constructive criticism is always welcome.  There have been a couple of reviews that I thought contained elements or comparisons that I felt were unnecessary and unwelcome.  Mark and his team have consistently done an outstanding job providing us many many hours of entertainment and with the way that they work together, it is highly unlikely that the quality or consistency in storytelling would be allowed to slip.

 

There are only a couple of authors whose work I read as soon as it comes out, literally dropping almost everything else so that I can read the latest installments of their stories – Mark is one of those authors.  

 

 

I will be anxiously awaiting the continuation of 9.11 and the CAP series as a whole.  

[KevinD]

I'm also greatly anticipating the continuing story of George Granger!

[Henson]

There's constructive criticism, and discussion of the characters.

 

There's the habitual adoption of contrary positions out of habit because one enjoys the intellectual rigor and ego rush of argument - similar to how some see sports or working out.

 

There is the excessive and unceasing demonization of carefully crafted and cared-for protagonists who are loosely identified with people in the author's life.

 

These are three separate things, though they can often bleed over into each other. A lot of what has happened in this forum over the last year has been anything BUT constructive criticism, though the perps often defend it as such. It is not constructive when pursued to excess. It is ego-driven and immature.

 

Nothing dogs men quite like pride and libido. That's what kills grindr, too

[Sympathia]

On hold But...but...

 

*waits patiently for his favorite read to continues*

 

Take care Mark, hope to have you back soon!

[samjones1]

I popped on to read the last couple of chapters and found the story to be on hold. Reading over the reviews, I am not surprised.

 

I think Mark, as an academic, must be used to getting unfiltered and unnecessarily negatively-framed feedback on his writing from other people in his academic field. I got a review report back yesterday that nearly brought me to tears, so don't think I'm not acquainted with that sort of feedback personally. Writing stories for enjoyment and to bring pleasure to others shouldn't have to involve that same sort of angst.

 

Take a vacation, enjoy a beer, and try to remember why you wrote these stories, Mark. For what it's worth, your story "9/11" has proven to be deeply cathartic for me. I couldn't even think or talk about that day up until this last anniversary. Now, I feel like I've finally and truly dealt with the trauma. I know that is because of your story and these characters. Whenever you come back, know that there is a loyal gang of readers who hang on your every word.

 

Also...block works pretty well. Despite rumors to the contrary, we are not actual reviewers in the academic sense. You can call us idiots, ignore our rantings, and still get published! :-D

[Westie]

Wow. I've not been active here for a while, but I was very surprised at some of the comments and reviews. I knew people here could get very "involved" and agitated, but I never imagined such.... Nastiness.
 

It would be nice if everyone remembered one word...FICTION!!!!!!!! And as strange as it may seem to you, it's Mark's fiction.

Not to mention of course, that it's FREE fiction.

[jellybean]

I'm gutted that the story is on hold but don't blame Mark for wanting a little vacation - he's been posting these chapters pretty quickly and must be feeling a bit burnt out. Go outside and enjoy the...snow? I'll go outside and enjoy the rain and keep trying to work out what's next for Wade and Matt in particular...

 

I've spent many, many hours of my life reading CAP and Bridgmont and just have to thank Mark and his team for providing so much enjoyment. No matter where the stories go, I know that I'm in the hands of a gifted writer who can make me really care (sometimes too much?) about the characters and what they are experiencing.  So I'm eagerly awaiting the conclusion of 9.11 and, indeed, the start of a new chapter.  I like being kept on edge as much as the next guy but hope that Mark returns to finish us off soon...

 

Thanks again,

JB

(unashamedly Team Will)

[davewri]

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

Critics are sad people who like to comment on what other people do that they themselves cannot do. I like Mark Arbor's writing, it's the best on the internet.

 

These characters are Mark's thoughts  in print and it's his choice as to how they are presented.  If every character was too predictable and too warm and fuzzy we wouldn't be reading these stories. I like the surprises and unexpected twists.  Real people are complex and so are these fictional characters.

 

We love you Mark and all the good writing you give us.

[Mark Arbour]

Thanks for all your feedback.  There is a difference between constructive criticism and an insult: the former are useful, the latter piss me off. 

 

I generally enjoy people venting their spleens about the characters, even when they are persistently wrong.     And this forum usually operates in a relatively pleasant manner.  Those are not issues for me, and I have not found comments here to be disturbing in the least. 

 

I put 9-11 on hold on Friday because I got feedback suggesting that Wade and Matt (and others) were acting out of character.  I tend to discount whining that a story went in a direction a reader didn't like (See Sharon's earlier post), but I thought that those critiques, coming from readers whom I've known and respected for a while, warranted some introspection on my part.  These characters, when I'm writing them, seem to live in my mind, but it's possible that with so many actors, my mind confuses them.  Even schizophrenic people can confuse the various people living in their heads.    So I've been doing that with the remaining chapters of 9-11, and I haven't discerned anything to validate that assertion.  The characters seem to be doing just what they probably would do, giving the stresses put upon them.  I have the final six chapters in final edit/beta read mode, and I see no reason to delay posting at this point, so I'm changing the status back to "in process." 

 

I do not think that Wade, Matt, or Will are acting 'out of character' under the circumstances.  I think that it's impossible, as I've said in response to reviews, to adequately predict the impact of a tragedy like 9-11.  And that really has been what this story is all about.  I also understand that the break-up of a tight relationship like Matt and Wade had is a wrenching event for readers who are attached to them, and would suggest that has more influence on 'out of character' comments than any actual change in how these people would function.  I can understand and relate to that.  But let us also acknowledge that traumatic events like this can, and often do, tear relationships (and families) apart.