Something I find truly sad

[Celethiel]

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/will-couple-be-jailed-for-returning-adopted-son-after-nine-years--194054370.html

 

Why does it make me feel there is a bigger issue of modern parenting than just among those who adopt...

And it is really said...

Adopt a kid... raise him for 9 years, then toss him to the wayside when he gets a little difficult

 

what 9 year old isn't difficult...

[Zombie]

I don't think this is particularly an issue of modern parenting, rather it's about people who choose to become criminals. Often this is more a function of personal inadequacies, personality disorders, stupidity, ignorance, greed - or all of these. These "parents" are simply criminals who will be dealt with by the justice system and their children will have to be taken into care. Very sad for the children, but delinquent parents are probably more of a social problem than delinquent children. Maybe there's also an underlying problem with the fitness and competence of adoption agencies and their failure to adequately vet prospective adopters, do effective background checks and so on

[Kitt]

There is more to it than that Z.  There are extreme cases in which the child in question is beyond help while remaining in the home. Admittedly rare, there are cases of FAS babies who develop severe psychosis as they grow. I know one such adopted FAS baby that was provided with years of counseling etc but was eventually committed to a psychiatric facility after intentionally burning down the family home. At the time of commitment the courts assumed custody and relieved the adoptive parents of the burden.

[crazyfish]

yeah sad for the kid.  Rejected twice and then will be shuffled through the foster care system till he's of age. He'll be damaged for a long, long time.  Yeah I can't even say what's worse for the kid, the foster care system or staying with those hideous parents. 

 

I used to be pro-adoption, but not now I'm not so sure anymore.  Unless you adopt a newborn, the lot of kids available for adoption are the harder sort to raise. Separating a child from their birth parents is trauma, even worse if the child has suffered years of rejection and neglect. 

 

It doesn't help that the culture promulgates such magical notions about parenting when the reality is much starker.  The bonding between parent and child isn't as automatic as people assume.  Bonding between parent and adoptive children is even less so automatic. Given how having children is basically a lifestyle choice, a lot of parents look to kids for these magical bonding experiences, instead of raising kids out of a sense of responsibility and sacrifice.

 

Adoption can easily turn into a living nightmare to these parents who were looking for an easy child to love. I understand them wanting to give back the child. Some children are just that hard to love. 

[Zombie]

OK, I re-read the article which has a link to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome but there was no indication that this particular child suffered from this. However, where there is any mental or physical issue with a child then surely this will have been noted by social services prior to the child going into care and while that child is in care, and all US adoption agencies must surely be legally required not only to disclose fully every material issue to the prospective parents but also to make additional checks - beyond those they would already have to do - to satisfy themselves that the prospective adopters fully understand and have the capacity and resources to cope with those specific issues? And surely there would be appropriate follow up by social services - frequent in the early stages - to satisfy themselves that all was going well? Adoption is largely about effective communication and matching needs and expectations - the needs of the child and the expectations of the prospective adopters. Once that whole process has been carried out - and maybe there are serious flaws in US adoption process? - then an adopted child becomes the adopting parents' responsibility. Just like the marriage vow - "to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health". Children are not acquired sale or return.

[Celethiel]

 Just like the marriage vow - "to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health". Children are not acquired sale or return.

except the marriage vow has nothing to do with children.

And people who even have kids born to them have been known to just give them up... I mean a few years back there was a horde of people going to some midwestern state to give their kids away...

[Zombie]

except the marriage vow has nothing to do with children.

 

That was quoted merely to illustrate the nature of the commitment being made - children are adopted for good or ill. In fact the adoption undertaking is more permanent and more serious than the marriage vow - you cannot legally divorce or abandon dependent children, natural or adopted. As for parents "just giv[ing] them up." or "giv[ing] their kids away" that may happen just like people rob banks and mug old ladies - some people choose to become criminals. That's why there's a legal system to right those wrongs as far as they can be righted. The tragedy is, as has already been noted, the terrible damage that is caused to children who are treated this way that the system then has to pick up.

[scotty94]

I believe the child isn't the problem I have been in foster care since I was 9 years old so you can probably say I was tossed out on to the street, but my parents did the best they could unemployed with seven kids all under the age of thirteen is hard. I still have a very strong relationship with them and if you look at the bigger picture no parents is a bad parent everyone makes mistakes but then you have to amend them mistakes and try not to make them again.

[Y_B]

Everything has a way out...but kids. Don't like your parents - move out, don't like boyfriend - break up, don't like wife - divorce, don't like your friends - make new ones....kids are permanent at least for some years. I don't blame people for wanting out when things are not how they want it to be, and sometimes people just want out. People separate allll the time and people give away their lifelong pets alllll the time. I'm not saying "returning" your adopted kid is right or the best thing to do but until you've been in someone's same situation, don't judge or even pretend you know what you would do in their situation. All I can say is I find it very unfortunate that things worked out the way they did for whoever the article was talking about. 

[Sasha Distan]

i knew a couple who adopted a little girl, she was 5. sweetest thing you could ever imagine. when she was 13, her birth mother (who had various addiction issues, DV and a horde of other problems) got in contact with her. You cannot stop a birth parent contacting their child, even once they've given the child up. Little girl went from being an ordinary teenager to being out all hours, smoking, substance abuse, a string of older 'boyfriends' found for her by her birth-mother's partner. she stole from her family home, was brought home by the police all the time.

When she turned 17 her parents had no choice left after years of abuse from her than to change the locks. she broke in and smashed the place. Eventually they had to move.

They still loved her, she was their little girl, but they had to abandon her again. that makes me sad.

[Cia]

My bff and her younger half brother were adopted at the same time by the same family. I am not saying their lives were picnics but we all had shit happen. Yet at one point as a young teen he just went wrong. Accusing people of things, horrific things, hurting animals, running away and committing petty crimes and some not so petty. He ended back up in state care after juvie then a lock down facility and then eventually into drugs and prison.  Then again I knew a whole lot of other kids taken from their bio parents short and long term and another adopted teen with rage issues that stayed with her family with therapy ongoing when I was growing up.

 

Another boy I knew of in town was 11 and in a state mandated anger management class I was in when I was 16 because he convinced another boy to help him lure a not quite friend of theirs to a train bridge and tried to throw him over. Trust me, not all kids are innocents. Not many young kids are as capable of that level of problem... but some are. Sometimes it's nature, sometimes it's nurture, and sometimes it's both. Every person, every family, every situation has its own dynamic and it's easy as hell to stand outside and judge. Unfortunately, sometimes there is no easy answer or a right thing for everyone.

[rustle]

What do we not know here? Is the prosecutor's reasoning sound? What sort of aggressive behavior has the boy exhibited? Did he torture and kill small animals, then turn on his infant sister next? What kind of help did he refuse? Was it a snake handler trying to pray the devil out of him, or a trained professional?

 

If the boy is normal, the adoptive parents have a lot to answer for. If he's a freak of nature, and unsafe to be around, aren't there other alternatives available, like turning him in to state custody? Either way, maybe the kid is better off being separated from the parents, although I feel for him, growing up with a feeling of abandonment.

 

We can ask about the vetting  process of the parents, but people change. In 9 years, maybe the parents bought into some cult, or went through life-changing trauma. The article points out well the need for post-adoption assistance, and I wonder if adoption should require follow-up by the parents. Parenting assistance should be available for ALL parents until kids reach adulthood. And beyond.

 

It's so easy to become a parent, yet so difficult to be a good one. Not every parent makes that choice for good reasons. A kid is not a possession, or a marker in a "successful" life, a way of keeping score. You shouldn't have a kid with the intent of getting something out of the experience, but in order to give something to him. And you don't just give 'em back.

[Kitt]

That was my point exactly Rustle!  We simply cannot just blame the parents because we do not know all the facts.

 

In the case I was personally acquainted with, the adoptive parents took both the boy and his sister at the same time. She grew up well adjusted and is a mom of two herself now. He took a major wrong turn somewhere, and in spite of continued follow up care, counciling and behavior modification medications became uncontrollable. Hence the outcome.

 

I am not saying what those parents did was right, all I am saying is there could be a hell of a lot more to the situation than meets the press.

[Celethiel]

my grandfather and his syblings were all adopted out by their father after their mother died.....

as I recall hearing grandpa and his twin would run away all the time...

and youd end up finding them together...

[TetRefine]

Here's the thing. The way I was raised, when you decide to make a kid or adopt one, you make a moral contract to raise and nurture that kid for better or worse. As an adult getting ready to have a kid, you know that kid could come out fucked up, either physically or psychologically. Its a gamble you take and a risk you must be willing to accept as part of it all. I have no sympathy for these people and they are total scumbags for all I'm concerned. 

[Y_B]

Here's the thing. The way I was raised, when you decide to make a kid or adopt one, you make a moral contract to raise and nurture that kid for better or worse. As an adult getting ready to have a kid, you know that kid could come out fucked up, either physically or psychologically. Its a gamble you take and a risk you must be willing to accept as part of it all. I have no sympathy for these people and they are total scumbags for all I'm concerned. 

 

 

The same kind of "vows" are made by marrying couples..."in sickness or health, til death do us part" but divorces happen everyday. The same kind of commitment is made when you take a job but people quit prematurely all the time, there are dozens other examples.

 

My point is that neither you, me or anyone who's never had kids know exactly what it's like. I don't believe people are made to be comfortable with the idea of an absolute permanent decision with no reversal. The societal trend these days if to make things even less permanent and that makes things more attractive. Think about no contract phone plans and no contract leases, people are willing to pay more for less strings.

 

I agree with you that before we get into any contractual or permanent situations we need to carefully evaluate and make the best decision possible and do our best to commit to it, but just because we make a commitment doesn't mean things are going to pan out and when things go totally to shit, it's hard and you can't say you know what that's like.

 

So before we jump on the bandwagon of throwing these parents into the dirt, think about something you've worked through on a similar level...were you able to work through it? Do you still live with it? How do you feel everyday? If you can't think of anything comparable, don't open your mouth.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Y_B

[methodwriter85]

   I am so glad I'm never having kids. Knowing my luck, I'd get a sociopath.

Edited November 17, 2013 by methodwriter85

[TetRefine]

The same kind of "vows" are made by marrying couples..."in sickness or health, til death do us part" but divorces happen everyday. The same kind of commitment is made when you take a job but people quit prematurely all the time, there are dozens other examples.

 

My point is that neither you, me or anyone who's never had kids know exactly what it's like. I don't believe people are made to be comfortable with the idea of an absolute permanent decision with no reversal. The societal trend these days if to make things even less permanent and that makes things more attractive. Think about no contract phone plans and no contract leases, people are willing to pay more for less strings.

 

I agree with you that before we get into any contractual or permanent situations we need to carefully evaluate and make the best decision possible and do our best to commit to it, but just because we make a commitment doesn't mean things are going to pan out and when things go totally to shit, it's hard and you can't say you know what that's like.

 

So before we jump on the bandwagon of throwing these parents into the dirt, think about something you've worked through on a similar level...were you able to work through it? Do you still live with it? How do you feel everyday? If you can't think of anything comparable, don't open your mouth.

 

Abandoning a young child like that is a special kind of low. I've worked with very difficult kids with a range of emotional/anger issues at summer camps over the past couple years. Granted, I haven't lived with them for extended periods, but I've learned that there is no such thing as a bad kid, only a bad parent/adult. If you spend enough time getting down to the root of the problem, you can almost always fix it. Abandoning this kid at a crucial stage in his life will only scar him and fuck him up even more. Great job parents.

 

[Kitt]

 but I've learned that there is no such thing as a bad kid, only a bad parent/adult. If you spend enough time getting down to the root of the problem, you can almost always fix it.

I agree - abandoning the kid at this stage was wrong.

 

I cannot agree that it is always the parents fault when a kid goes bad.  At 21 you have a lot more learning to do. Hell - at 53 and a mom i have more learning to do!

 

If it is "bad parenting" then explain to me how the family I described earlier has 4 biological children, all of whom are fine, upstanding citizens?  The psychopath I told you about was adopted at the same time as his biological sister. The girl turned out fine too. There was obviously something much more at work than "bad parenting".

 

And as for "fixing it"?  I hate to tell you, but some things just cannot be fixed. If they could there would be no need for psychiatric facilities designed for lifetime incarceration.

[Y_B]

but I've learned that there is no such thing as a bad kid, only a bad parent/adult. If you spend enough time getting down to the root of the problem, you can almost always fix it. 

 

Since you chose to say "almost" implying you admittedly know some cases are not fixable, what happens then? Are there exceptions to your rule? 

 

Also, can you provide some examples of the type of underlying parental caused problems you are referring to and the type of "fix" that have succeeded verses failed short term and long term and what the causes are for success vs non-success? Otherwise, you're just throwing out fortune cookie platitude.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Y_B

[Graeme]

Insufficient data for meaningful answer.

 

The article itself indicated that this was a rare event. However, without knowing details of the child's behaviour, we can't put things into context. I agree that the parents sound like scumbags but we don't have the details as to what they've gone through. It is a a desperate step to try to "return" a child (the non-adoptive option is to relinquish a child to whatever the appropriate government body is in your area). It is generally not something done lightly, and I had the impression from the article that it wasn't done lightly. Whether it was done after sufficient alternatives were investigated is not something that the article covers.

 

I found it interesting that the parents could not be located. That sounds like there's more to the situation than just the parents not able to cope with an aggressive nine-year-old. But we don't have the information needed to properly judge what is going on.

 

Based purely on the article, there's something wrong with the parents. I'm just not inclined to condemn them without more information.

[Zombie]

The same kind of commitment is made when you take a job but people quit prematurely all the time, there are dozens other examples.

 

My point is that neither you, me or anyone who's never had kids know exactly what it's like. I don't believe people are made to be comfortable with the idea of an absolute permanent decision with no reversal. The societal trend these days if to make things even less permanent and that makes things more attractive. Think about no contract phone plans and no contract leases, people are willing to pay more for less strings.

 

I agree with you that before we get into any contractual or permanent situations we need to carefully evaluate and make the best decision possible and do our best to commit to it, but just because we make a commitment doesn't mean things are going to pan out and when things go totally to shit, it's hard and you can't say you know what that's like.

 

I don't know definitely that this is the position in all other countries - but I suspect it may well be - but in Britain adoption is a one-way trip.

 

It is permanent, it is absolute, it is irrevocable. No-one can undo it.

 

To give an example, a few years ago two parents were accused of killing their baby based on evidence of an "expert" medical witness and their remaining child was snatched by the council, placed in foster care, and legally adopted through a rushed process when the council discovered the birth parents were making a legal appeal and challenging the "expert" medical witness. Soon after the rushed adoption was completed by the council the birth parents won their case when the court ruled the "expert" had knowingly given dishonest / flawed testimony and the original ruling against the parents was quashed and new medical evidence confirmed "cot death" was the reason their baby died. Imagine that - they lost not one child through death but they lost their other child too because of the council's forced and deliberately rushed adoption. The adoption was irreversible and they were denied any restitution or further contact [until the child becomes an adult] despite the admitted wrongdoing and gross miscarriage of justice.

 

For the same reason there is no process for adoptive parents to "give up" adopted children. It is final. As previous posts have pointed out things can go badly wrong with any parent / child relationship but adoptive parents must work through these problems with available welfare resources in exactly the same way as they would with their birth children. I think even non-parents like me understand the challenges of child rearing - we were all children once - and that is why adoption agencies must be tightly regulated and rigorous processes must be in place to weed out prospective parents who cannot reasonably demonstrate their suitability for such a huge and potentially life changing responsibility. Respect to those that can and do rise to this challenge.

[TetRefine]

Since you chose to say "almost" implying you admittedly know some cases are not fixable, what happens then? Are there exceptions to your rule? 

 

Also, can you provide some examples of the type of underlying parental caused problems you are referring to and the type of "fix" that have succeeded verses failed short term and long term and what the causes are for success vs non-success? Otherwise, you're just throwing out fortune cookie platitude.

 

Theres exceptions to every rule. But if you have patience, you have a pretty good chance for success. And no, I don't have some ridiculously over thought out academic study. But I've got a decent amount of experience working with difficult kids from god-awful backgrounds that counts for more than just saying "oh these poor parents got a difficult kid so they decided to ship him back after nine years". They are parental failures just for that reason alone. 

[Gene Splicer PHD]

I consider a parent a failure when they are screwing up their kids through their own devices, ie. being addicted to drugs, being criminals, abandoning them, leaving them in a dumpster.

 

As bad as it is to "return" a kid, I'd rather see them get a chance at a better life through being "returned" then having some adoptive asshole "father" teaching them to roll joints on their adoptive sister's bare ass because his buddies thought it would be funny. Which did happen to a friend of mine growing up. When he was about seven, I think.

 

Sometimes you measure success by realizing you're failing.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Gene Splicer PHD

[Sasha Distan]

Sometimes you measure success by realizing you're failing.

 

it is one of the many things we teach the kids, and that we as teachers are taught during training. you can only get help but admitting that you're screwing it up, and sometimes yes, success is admitting you have failed.

 

as for the idea that all faults of the child are faults of the parents/people who raised them, that's is just not true. there are people who are just hard wired differently - like those with a diminished capacity for empathy, we call them psychopaths, their brains actually don't function the way most people's do. like kids with severe autism, aspergus, even dyslexia. their brains work in a different way, sometimes this can have a deep affect on their personalities and their ability to cope with the outside world. don't go saying that the fault of the child is the fault of the parent.