Flux

[Mark Arbour]

      The thing that you've set up about JJ, and has been pretty consistent, is that he's not really a homebody, "attached to family" type. Whereas family is HUGE for people like Will and Darius, it's not really that way for JJ. It could change, but I kind of think that if 9/11 didn't turn JJ into a type who was all about family like his brothers, nothing will. I can see JJ being pretty content to roam around the world, meeting new people and experiencing new things, and never really setting up "home" with any particular person. I can see it being pretty important to both Darius and Will for them to meet the person they can envision themselves setting up a family and home with, but never really for JJ.

 

 

I've got to disagree with you on part of this, but I think it comes down to the two different things you're talking about here.  One is having a family unit with a partner, etc.; and the other is having a home base, and a support system.  You may be right about the former.  I'm not sure that I see JJ settling down with one guy or girl, but then again, that may be just what he needs.  On the other hand, I think JJ needs his family a lot more than he's willing to admit.  I'm not saying that it's a near-obsession (like it is for JP and Will), or that tradition dominates his attitudes (like it does with Darius), but it's still pretty important.  Look at how he reacted when the house in Boston wasn't on schedule to be completed.  He acknowledges that as his anchor.   I think he looks at his family with a jaded and cynical eye, but if you dig deeper, he needs them.  A lot.

 

 

 

  I can also see JJ being pretty gun-shy about the idea of settling down into a happy monogamous relationship that's marriage or the equivalent, considering that both Brad/Robbie and Jeanine/Tiffany fell apart pretty spectacularly when he was 13 and 14 years old. Aside from that, his career choice doesn't really lend itself well to having a happy, monogamous relationship considering the extensive amount of training and traveling he has to do.

 

 

A very good point.  It makes sense that failed relationships would warp his thinking about that.  On the other hand, it's hard to say what the future will bring.  If Darius or Will (and maybe even John or Marie) end up with largely happy, monogamous relationships, that will surely have an impact on his attitudes.  As he gets older, and matures, that will also guide him more in that direction.  That's not to say that he'll go there, just that he'll feel some internal pressure to do so.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Mark Arbour

[Headstall]

      The thing that you've set up about JJ, and has been pretty consistent, is that he's not really a homebody, "attached to family" type. Whereas family is HUGE for people like Will and Darius, it's not really that way for JJ. It could change, but I kind of think that if 9/11 didn't turn JJ into a type who was all about family like his brothers, nothing will. I can see JJ being pretty content to roam around the world, meeting new people and experiencing new things, and never really setting up "home" with any particular person. I can see it being pretty important to both Darius and Will for them to meet the person they can envision themselves setting up a family and home with, but never really for JJ.

 

     I can also see JJ being pretty gun-shy about the idea of settling down into a happy monogamous relationship that's marriage or the equivalent, considering that both Brad/Robbie and Jeanine/Tiffany fell apart pretty spectacularly when he was 13 and 14 years old. Aside from that, his career choice doesn't really lend itself well to having a happy, monogamous relationship considering the extensive amount of training and traveling he has to do.

I get what you are saying here... but I would like to add my thoughts. At this point I don't think you could predict with any accuracy how JJ will turn out in his personal life, especially based on this stated criteria.Comparing him to his brothers won't work IMHO because JJ is the only one whose entire focus(almost) needs to be on his career in order to have success. Yeah , he is a diva but he almost needs to be to keep that focus. It is the same for most athletes...other parts of their lives will be ignored, backburnered and even stunted in order to achieve their goals.And like most of these driven athletes it is a temporary situation(years, yes, but still temporary). For sure it could have some long range effects, but generally when life gets back to normal, then real life takes place. JJ is no special exception...he is sacrificing family and personal relationships and anything else that will or could take away from his rather lofty goals...but when the smoke clears he will have to get on with his life and that will include the things he neglected. His career choice is only putting things on hold, not preventing him from future development and his potential for happiness. If anything is going to stand in the way or cause difficulties in him having a future "happy monogamous relationship", my guess would be the sexual abuse and abuse of trust he suffered at the hands of his coach (someone he thought he loved and that loved him). So maybe he hasn't had the best parental figures and maybe established boundaries are suspect but JJ is not stupid...he knows his family loves him and supports him and are there for him anytime he needs them and isn't that knowledge the most important thing of all in a kid's development and chances for making his way in the world as an adult. I say he has every chance of finding happiness and a fulfilling relationship...at least as much as most of us do....cheers Method...Gary

[GLH]

I believe that I'll amend my previous judgement of Wade, but only to say that it appears that he's in good company.

[methodwriter85]

 On the other hand, I think JJ needs his family a lot more than he's willing to admit.  I'm not saying that it's a near-obsession (like it is for JP and Will), or that tradition dominates his attitudes (like it does with Darius), but it's still pretty important.  Look at how he reacted when the house in Boston wasn't on schedule to be completed.  He acknowledges that as his anchor.   I think he looks at his family with a jaded and cynical eye, but if you dig deeper, he needs them.  A lot.

 

 

A very good point.  It makes sense that failed relationships would warp his thinking about that.  On the other hand, it's hard to say what the future will bring.  If Darius or Will (and maybe even John or Marie) end up with largely happy, monogamous relationships, that will surely have an impact on his attitudes.  As he gets older, and matures, that will also guide him more in that direction.  That's not to say that he'll go there, just that he'll feel some internal pressure to do so.

 

      I guess I mean JJ doesn't need to be around his family the bulk of his time the way Will needs to. To paraphrase what you said to me once, JJ could be content with once-a-month visits with his family and feel okay. I don't think that'd be enough for either Will or Darius- I'd be shocked if either moves out of California. I guess you could say JJ does need his family, but he doesn't need the constant communication and presence of them.

 

     I can also see JJ being willing to make and create his own support and family system, as like a home away from home. I always thought that could be a really good thing for JJ, to at some point in his life build a really tight group of friends that serve as a secondary family to him, and one where he doesn't have to deal with Will being the Golden Child that everyone fawns over and he has to jump up and down to get attention from.

 

Comparing him to his brothers won't work IMHO because JJ is the only one whose entire focus(almost) needs to be on his career in order to have success. Yeah , he is a diva but he almost needs to be to keep that focus. It is the same for most athletes...other parts of their lives will be ignored, backburnered and even stunted in order to achieve their goals.And like most of these driven athletes it is a temporary situation(years, yes, but still temporary). For sure it could have some long range effects, but generally when life gets back to normal, then real life takes place.

 

That's a pretty good difference between Will/Darius and JJ. Will can put in the work for things he wants to do, and we've seen him having a narrow-minded focus (re: the emancipation), but he generally prefers to keep his life balanced. He could sacrifice things to get what he wants if he was pushed to. JJ, meanwhile, has pretty much sacrificed a lot of stuff in order to make it to the senior level figure skating level that he's at right now.

 

As for real life taking place...interestingly enough, a lot of JJ's athlete contemporaries haven't quite let go yet even though it's probably advisable they should. Evan Lysacek is trying to get back into competing. Michael Phelps is returning to competition even though he retired.  And Jeremy Abbott is kinda heming and hawing, even though it really would make sense that he retire now because the Socchi Olympics pretty much proved that guy is never getting an individual Olympic medal because he's too much of a headcase.*

 

I think it's the Brett Favre effect- you don't really want to let go of the sport and the adulation that goes with it, even though your time really has passed.

 

In any event, I do think it'll be interesting to see how JJ handles his 20's and the waning of his career, and how he'd handle not being Jeremy Schluter the Skater.

 

 

 

I say he has every chance of finding happiness and a fulfilling relationship...at least as much as most of us do....cheers Method...Gary

 

In any event...the pursuit of happiness is a path everyone deserves...but come on. This is CAP. We can't have everybody constantly happy or it'd be a boring story. I think Brad is pretty much destined for a life of trainwrecks punctuated every once in awhile with happy breaks.

 

 

*"Headcase", best known for describing crazy people, is used by those who follow skating to describe skaters who are very inconsistent and who often tend to completely give up on a program after one mistake. Basically, they're known as a choke artist who crumbles under the pressure. Jeremy Abbott has the reputation of being one for international competitions, even though he's good at national comps.

[Headstall]

      I guess I mean JJ doesn't need to be around his family the bulk of his time the way Will needs to. To paraphrase what you said to me once, JJ could be content with once-a-month visits with his family and feel okay. I don't think that'd be enough for either Will or Darius- I'd be shocked if either moves out of California. I guess you could say JJ does need his family, but he doesn't need the constant communication and presence of them.

 

     I can also see JJ being willing to make and create his own support and family system, as like a home away from home. I always thought that could be a really good thing for JJ, to at some point in his life build a really tight group of friends that serve as a secondary family to him, and one where he doesn't have to deal with Will being the Golden Child that everyone fawns over and he has to jump up and down to get attention from.

 

 

That's a pretty good difference between Will/Darius and JJ. Will can put in the work for things he wants to do, and we've seen him having a narrow-minded focus (re: the emancipation), but he generally prefers to keep his life balanced. He could sacrifice things to get what he wants if he was pushed to. JJ, meanwhile, has pretty much sacrificed a lot of stuff in order to make it to the senior level figure skating level that he's at right now.

 

As for real life taking place...interestingly enough, a lot of JJ's athlete contemporaries haven't quite let go yet even though it's probably advisable they should. Evan Lysacek is trying to get back into competing. Michael Phelps is returning to competition even though he retired.  And Jeremy Abbott is kinda heming and hawing, even though it really would make sense that he retire now because the Socchi Olympics pretty much proved that guy is never getting an individual Olympic medal because he's too much of a headcase.*

 

I think it's the Brett Favre effect- you don't really want to let go of the sport and the adulation that goes with it, even though your time really has passed.

 

In any event, I do think it'll be interesting to see how JJ handles his 20's and the waning of his career, and how he'd handle not being Jeremy Schluter the Skater.

 

 

 

In any event...the pursuit of happiness is a path everyone deserves...but come on. This is CAP. We can't have everybody constantly happy or it'd be a boring story. I think Brad is pretty much destined for a life of trainwrecks punctuated every once in awhile with happy breaks.

 

 

*"Headcase", best known for describing crazy people, is used by those who follow skating to describe skaters who are very inconsistent and who often tend to completely give up on a program after one mistake. Basically, they're known as a choke artist who crumbles under the pressure. Jeremy Abbott has the reputation of being one for international competitions, even though he's good at national comps.

Again,I get what you are saying but I don't understand how naming a handful of athletes who are choosing or continuing to follow their dreams (whether someone thinks it is realistic or not) has anything to do with JJ's potential for happiness. You appear to be assuming that he will hold on to his dreams past their percieved expiry date. I would put forth that this is not an assumption I would make...there are probably hundreds of thousands of pro and amateur athletes over the last few decades who have moved on from competition into something else. You have named athletes of three sports who have tried to hold on as long as they can,and I say all the power to them.Maybe JJ will be one of them and maybe he won't. The thing is, all athletes have one thing in common...their body sets their limits regardless of their desires and eventually they must move on and life does happen. And JJ will be no exception. With regards to "headcases" , they are in every sport and even in all walks of life...and with the incredible pressure of being under a microscope,it is no wonder there are choke artists...nerves can get to all of us. As far as how JJ will handle his retirement I again say he is not stupid...it may be rough on him like most athletes who must move on, but he will have the advantage of being Jeremy Schluter, a member of one of the wealthiest , most powerful families in the world. That should make the transition a little more bearable than most.

As you say, this is CAP, yet you are using real people as examples...so don't we have to treat these characters as real, as well. Maybe there are patterns of a kind in CAP but I choose to believe that Brad will break out of his and find that which truly makes him happy. Without that hope, or other hopes, what would be the point...hope is what keeps us going on the darkest of days. Cheers Method...Gary 

[Bucket1]

I was a little restrained in my review so I have to ask WHAT THE FUCK IS ALEX DOING?

 

I never liked him and now he is doing this sort of shit. What did Wade and Alex actually agree on? They have different understandings I think. Wade told Matt that they (Alex/Wade) agreed to be exclusive but Wade could, if required, still be with Matt. This is a bit different to that understanding.

 

The other possibility is that it is not Matt but Alex that is the jealous one.  Is Alex trying to break the Matt/Wade nexus? Did Wade fail the test? "Yes I will say you can sleep with Matt but you shouldn't do it and you will have to guess because I'm not saying it out loud". Sort of what Wade has done with Matt.  Logical Wade has given Matt permission, I believe Emotional Wade is thinking differently. I said there would be difficult conversations ahead and they are a'coming.

 

And what is going on with the not seeing each other? If my lover was sick and I had just flown around the world to see him, I would bloody well see him. I would want to be the one to look after him, to care for him, to comfort him, to remove the vomit out of his hairy blond chest (sorry personal flash back - and why is there always carrot in vomit?). But in all seriousness, this relationship is getting weirder and weirder. I think the estimates of it surviving a semester may turn out to be wishful thinking.

 

Why am I beginning to feel sorry for Wade? How could he pick this guy over Matt? The Alex drug must be pretty powerful - it is certainly working its magic on Matt (and Stef???).

 

I see rough times ahead for all...

[Bucket1]

The thing is, all athletes have one thing in common...their body sets their limits regardless of their desires and eventually they must move on and life does happen. And JJ will be no exception. With regards to "headcases" , they are in every sport and even in all walks of life...and with the incredible pressure of being under a microscope,it is no wonder there are choke artists...nerves can get to all of us. As far as how JJ will handle his retirement I again say he is not stupid...it may be rough on him like most athletes who must move on, but he will have the advantage of being Jeremy Schluter, a member of one of the wealthiest , most powerful families in the world. That should make the transition a little more bearable than most.

 

It's not JJ's retirement that I worry about - he will find something else to obsess about and as you say the family wealth will make life easier that most.

 

I worry about JP's retirement - the life expectancy for an academic is 18 months post retirement.

[Mark Arbour]

 - the life expectancy for an academic is 18 months post retirement.

 

OK, now that is depressing.  

[Timothy M.]

Just keep writing CAP, Mark. That should keep you young at heart and on your toes

[Bucket1]

OK, now that is depressing.  

 

Sorry for the depressing news.

 

There are two factors at play here - most are on tenure, so stick around way too long. The other important, very important factor, is that they often have nothing else in their life, so they retire and have nothing to live for.

 

The good news for you Mark is that CAP and your other writing could be the thing that keeps you going for many many years. Just like JJ and Zach its always good to have alternatives and options in life.

 

Even if you do take us on a merry ride, I am hoping for a long and productive life for you even if some of the motivation is pure self interest. I want good stuff to read when I'm in the retirement home.

 

Keep writing and live longer 

[Headstall]

I was a little restrained in my review so I have to ask WHAT THE FUCK IS ALEX DOING?

 

I never liked him and now he is doing this sort of shit. What did Wade and Alex actually agree on? They have different understandings I think. Wade told Matt that they (Alex/Wade) agreed to be exclusive but Wade could, if required, still be with Matt. This is a bit different to that understanding.

 

The other possibility is that it is not Matt but Alex that is the jealous one.  Is Alex trying to break the Matt/Wade nexus? Did Wade fail the test? "Yes I will say you can sleep with Matt but you shouldn't do it and you will have to guess because I'm not saying it out loud". Sort of what Wade has done with Matt.  Logical Wade has given Matt permission, I believe Emotional Wade is thinking differently. I said there would be difficult conversations ahead and they are a'coming.

 

And what is going on with the not seeing each other? If my lover was sick and I had just flown around the world to see him, I would bloody well see him. I would want to be the one to look after him, to care for him, to comfort him, to remove the vomit out of his hairy blond chest (sorry personal flash back - and why is there always carrot in vomit?). But in all seriousness, this relationship is getting weirder and weirder. I think the estimates of it surviving a semester may turn out to be wishful thinking.

 

Why am I beginning to feel sorry for Wade? How could he pick this guy over Matt? The Alex drug must be pretty powerful - it is certainly working its magic on Matt (and Stef???).

 

I see rough times ahead for all...

Great post, Bucket. I really don't think though, that the Alex drug is working on Matt. As he said about fucking Alex...it was kinda fun...and it was detached. To me the most important thought he expressed was that it was strange or weird to have sex with Wade's "alternate boyfriend" and that Alex was more than a little fucked up in how he treated Wade compared to Matt. This tells me that he is analyzing Alex and this entire situation and is not liking what he is coming up with. Matt did not understand either of them with regards to not seeing each right away.As you said, that does not appear quite right. Interesting to me, when labeling Alex as alternate boyfriend, Matt is also labeling himself as that. I cannot see Matt being able to accept that designation in his head or his heart for very long. Your points about the tests are good ones,,,and once again you made me laugh (carrots?) so thanks for that...cheers...Gary

[Westie]

OK, now that is depressing.  

Don't worry.  When you retire, you're going to be busy churning out more chapters....

 

That's extra hours in the day you can be writing.... and for an academic, that's gotta be what?  at least an extra 6-7 hours a week freed up by not "working"

 

[Kitt]

I see JP's retirement as giving him time to do the research he has always had to steal time to do, write more books,(Don't forget he IS a published historian) and to do the lecture tour thing at his own pace.  I don't see him getting bored and failing to continue living, which in my opinion is what happens to those that retire and then pass on shortly there after. They lose the will to live.

[Headstall]

I see JP's retirement as giving him time to do the research he has always had to steal time to do, write more books,(Don't forget he IS a published historian) and to do the lecture tour thing at his own pace.  I don't see him getting bored and failing to continue living, which in my opinion is what happens to those that retire and then pass on shortly there after. They lose the will to live.

Just so you know Kitt, I am retired and I am going kicking and screaming...if I lose the will to live, someone shoot me cheers...Gary

[apjordan]

I worry about JP's retirement - the life expectancy for an academic is 18 months post retirement.

 

 

OK, now that is depressing.  

 

I'm also pretty sure it's not true. You have a citation for that, Bucket?

 

I know personal anecdotes aren't data. But since every retired academic I know (and I know a lot of them) has lived more than 18 months post retirement (and several are at 20+ years), a lot of folks would need to be dying even earlier than that for the average to work out. About the only way I could imagine that stat pans out is if people who die while still employed are considered to have retired at the moment of their death.

 

This BBC News piece suggests that claims that specific professions (apparently teachers are mentioned most often in this regard) have life expectancies of 18 months post-retirement are both common and false.

[Mark Arbour]

I'm also pretty sure it's not true. You have a citation for that, Bucket?

 

I know personal anecdotes aren't data. But since every retired academic I know (and I know a lot of them) has lived more than 18 months post retirement (and several are at 20+ years), a lot of folks would need to be dying even earlier than that for the average to work out. About the only way I could imagine that stat pans out is if people who die while still employed are considered to have retired at the moment of their death.

 

This BBC News piece suggests that claims that specific professions (apparently teachers are mentioned most often in this regard) have life expectancies of 18 months post-retirement are both common and false.

 

 I think I got an erection when I read this.

[Mark Arbour]

I see JP's retirement as giving him time to do the research he has always had to steal time to do, write more books,(Don't forget he IS a published historian) and to do the lecture tour thing at his own pace.  I don't see him getting bored and failing to continue living, which in my opinion is what happens to those that retire and then pass on shortly there after. They lose the will to live.

 

JP has already started to set the stage for his retirement by picking up the mantle as Chairman of the Board of Regents for Claremont Tech.  I can see him doing some research, assuming he's not burned out by it.  Life as a professor at Stanford would have been one long pressure cooker of publications.   He would have had to have been uber-productive in that regard.  On the other hand, I can see him pivoting and writing a book, which is an entirely different process. 

[Headstall]

 I think I got an erection when I read this.

 

You think? That is so sad! Is it because of a big belly or no feeling?

[methodwriter85]

JP is 66 in CAP world time. He's an academic. Most of them hang on until at least a few years past age 65. I had a professor that was a Korean War veteran, and this was in 2006 so he had to be at least in his very late 60's. Although with JP's plans for Claremont Tech, I can see him getting really into that and probably spending more time in Claremont after his retirement.

 

He'll probably live a long life into his 80's like Tonto did, who had her own purpose such as making sure the next generation of Hayes boys didn't self-destruct like Jeff did. 

[Bucket1]

I'm also pretty sure it's not true. You have a citation for that, Bucket?

 

I know personal anecdotes aren't data. But since every retired academic I know (and I know a lot of them) has lived more than 18 months post retirement (and several are at 20+ years), a lot of folks would need to be dying even earlier than that for the average to work out. About the only way I could imagine that stat pans out is if people who die while still employed are considered to have retired at the moment of their death.

 

This BBC News piece suggests that claims that specific professions (apparently teachers are mentioned most often in this regard) have life expectancies of 18 months post-retirement are both common and false.

 

I knew someone would ask for a citation 

 

And I have been trying to search for it - I seem to remember it came from my superannuation fund Unisuper. This is the combined Australian University pension plan (I think thats the closest analogy). Their concern was that academics life span is increasing (good news for Mark and co) and that is affecting the money available to distribute (bad news for me). I will keep looking.

 

Australia no longer has a retirement age (no compulsory retirement at 65) so they can stick around until they die. The oldest person in my department is in her mid 70s and is more productive than some of the younger one in their 50s and 60s. One of our Emeritus Professors is in two days a week working on research projects and diagnostics - he is well into his 80s. So Mark, JP and any other academics need not freak out that they will die at 66.5 years.

 

If we are being serious for a moment - healthy ageing is something we should all be concerned about. It's not just about living longer, it's about living better.

 

And it's good to see that Mark can still get aroused at his vintage  All you need to do get Mark happy is ask for a citation 

[Headstall]

And it's good to see that Mark can still get aroused at his vintage  All you need to do get Mark happy is ask for a citation    Quote from Bucket1

 

 

What the hell do you mean at his vintage??? The man is practically a child....I have to deal with my own steel bar constantly

[Bucket1]

Great post, Bucket. I really don't think though, that the Alex drug is working on Matt. As he said about fucking Alex...it was kinda fun...and it was detached. To me the most important thought he expressed was that it was strange or weird to have sex with Wade's "alternate boyfriend" and that Alex was more than a little fucked up in how he treated Wade compared to Matt. This tells me that he is analyzing Alex and this entire situation and is not liking what he is coming up with. Matt did not understand either of them with regards to not seeing each right away.As you said, that does not appear quite right. Interesting to me, when labeling Alex as alternate boyfriend, Matt is also labeling himself as that. I cannot see Matt being able to accept that designation in his head or his heart for very long. Your points about the tests are good ones,,,and once again you made me laugh (carrots?) so thanks for that...cheers...Gary

 

I had missed the "alternate boyfriend" comment - as we have said before Matt sees the relationship with Wade as being more substantial than "not a couple but good friends forever". Well spotted.

 

And I agree that Matt is questioning Alex's motives/actions but he does seem to be caught up in the fun, for now at least. If nothing else, Matt's little escapade has given us a lot to think about. Wade's prediction that "shit happens at Escorial" is coming true.

[Bucket1]

And it's good to see that Mark can still get aroused at his vintage  All you need to do get Mark happy is ask for a citation    Quote from Bucket1

 

 

What the hell do you mean at his vintage??? The man is practically a child....I have to deal with my own steel bar constantly

 

Healthy ageing has it's advantages 

 

There was a recent seminar on sexuality in aged care and there is a lot of it about. The residents seem to enjoy it, the staff don't think it's any of their business. The people that object quite vocally? - the kids. Apparently parents don't do that sort of thing 

Edited July 23, 2014 by Bucket1

[Daddydavek]

Just a thought provoked by the discussion here.  

 

When I was a young man, the thought of old men having sex was repugnant.

 

When I was a middle aged man, I worried that I wouldn't be able to have sex when I got old.

 

As an older man, the thought of old men not being able to have sex is repugnant.  

 

The wheel turns. 

 

Happily, I've got to agree healthy ageing has its advantages.  

[methodwriter85]

   Wow, I'm sure at 51 Mark must LOVE getting compared to elderly residents in a nursing home.

 

    Seriously though, age really is sometimes just a number. Dylan McDermott from American Horrory Story is in his 50's and he's smoking hot:

 

Edited July 24, 2014 by methodwriter85