Streak

[PrivateTim]

Still at a loss to figure out what it is that Alex has done wrong. He didn't ask for Wade to fall for him and he didn't treat Wade badly, quite the opposite he treated Wade with great respect and care. And since he was unaware that JJ had a crush on him his interest in JJ's skating was genuine. Some people called him a "predator" because he was aggressive with Will, but when Will all but raped the contractor on Maui people sloughed it off with, 'well it was what the contractor really wanted anyway.' The only reason Will DIDN'T respond to Alex was because JJ liked him, otherwise it would have been 'what he really wanted' and they would have done the whorizontal mambo.

 

The trouble with the whole notion behind this 'Madonna-whore complex' theory is that it is only seen in straight men in their attitude towards women and it isn't that they treat the woman they love with care and deference and then have wild unbridled sex with bad girls it is that they are unable to perform sexually with the women they put on pedestals. No lead in the pencil. The women they do have sex with are not just bad girls, but ones that are debased. Freud, who first identified the issue, thought it had its roots in Oedipal complexes, which is one reason it is seen in straight men.

 

As to Will. Will is being Will, which means he cares mostly about Will and thinks he knows what is best for everyone concerned. He has continued to tell people what they should do and when they should do it and now he is poised to interfere in JJ's love life, while people interfering in his makes him go ballistic, but he is The Will, so it is okay.

 

He didn't drive to Lafayette because he loves Zach, but because he loves Will and Will wanted sex with the guy he thinks he loves, so he shows up unannounced for his needs.

 

Next up is Waikiki. He doesn't care that getting a room in the same hotel could expose his and Zach's relationship. Will just wants what he wants. He might even want to get caught. I can't think of any other reason for him to get a room in the same hotel when he has a choice of some 70 other hotels in Waikiki that are not the De La Salle team's hotel or the hotel where his family is staying. The De La Salle hotel will be full of parents, players, DLS staff, siblings, etc. Will is sure to be seen. It might be easy to explain his presence in the hotel lobby, but less convincing on a floor in the hotel or coming off an elevator.

 

When Will and Zach do get caught the inevitable result is that Zach will hate Will for ruining all his dreams (maybe a yellow sports car gets torched?). At the pace they are going, they are sure to be caught and it is much more likely on a trip like the Oahu trip than being caught in CA where the group is more dispersed. Whether Will's desire to get caught is conscious or unconscious I don't think he has thought through how Zach will react when Will destroys the only thing Zach truly cares about.

 

That is when this story will get interesting and less The Waltons. Goodnight John-boy.

[B1ue]

Isn't Will known to be both rich and close to Zach? I don't think they'd even need any elaboration to their current cover story when Will is discovered in the same hotel lobby. "I felt like supporting my cousin" is all the explanation he needs to give. It's even true, if incomplete.

 

I do agree with your arguments that Alex really hasn't done anything wrong. The "wrongest" action, for lack of a better word, is that he didn't treat Wade how Wade wanted to be treated, which only proves that they were ultimately incompatible, not that either party did the other wrong.

 

I would go further from what you said about JJ, and wonder what exactly Wade and Will expect to accomplish by talking to JJ? Filling JJ's head with preconceived notions based on a past fling, when Alex provably does not enter into relationships with everyone the same way, will do no one any favors. Just as a for instance, how the hell will Wade, Will, and JJ know the difference between Alex treating JJ carefully because he thinks he's to precious for this world, or the far more laudable reason that JJ is super inexperienced?

[Kitt]

A M/D complex may have been seen as a "straight thing" in the past, but who is to say things haven't changed and evolved. I am old enough to remember when AIDS was a "gay thing" and the general belief was that if you were straight you didn't need to worry about getting the horrible disease. We all know better now after years of additional research.

 

The world just simply is NOT black and white. There are various degrees to just about everything.

 

Is getting a second room in Zach's hotel prudent? Probably not but time will tell. Teens who think they are in love, whether they really are or not, do stupid things. If they didn't things like STD's and teen pregnancies would be much less prevalent. Will and Zach don't have the corner on that market, it is indicative of teen behavior everywhere. Will just has more money to play with in the process.

 

The only thing I see as "wrong" with Alex and JJ is the disparity in maturity and experience. JJ may be older than Will, but emotionally he is way behind him. I can see him getting really hung up on Alex, something that will eventually come to an end when Alex is expected to marry and produce an heir. Even if Alex treats him like gold until then, it will still be one hell of a blow to JJ when it finally happens.

[Bucket1]

Teens who think they are in love, whether they really are or not, do stupid things.

 

 

With a small degree of confession here - it's not only teenagers that do stupid things...

[Timothy M.]

“I don’t think JJ will listen to anyone where Alex is concerned,” he (Will) said.  “I was so tempted to give him a bunch of crap about it, but I remembered how pissed off I got when people did that, so I just kept my mouth shut.”

 

and

 

“I’d rather be his slut than his princess,” I (Wade) told him.  “Matt got to have amazing sex with him.  I just got to go to cocktail parties.”

He (Will) laughed at that.  “JJ will like the cocktail parties better.”

“He makes a pretty good princess,” I said, thinking out loud.

Will was silent for a bit.  “He does.  Shouldn’t we tell him about this?”

“Probably,” I said.  “Who should do it?”

“Well, for starters, we can’t tell my father about this,” he said.  “He will totally freak out.”

“True that,” I said, chuckling.  Brad was not known for being calm.  “Maybe you should do it.”

He didn’t say anything for a bit.  “I don’t know.  I think it could be me, Matt, Tiffany, or Stef.  I need to think about it.”

“We’ll talk next week and come up with a plan,” I said.  I wanted time to think about it too.

 

yeah from the above it certainly looks like Will is eager and "poised to interfere in JJ's love life" 

and of course asking Wade's advice and talking to Stef is such an immature and selfish thing for Will to do.

 

but I hope they wait till they find out how good Alex is for JJ's skating and then just keep silent about this.

[Timothy M.]

Still at a loss to figure out what it is that Alex has done wrong.

 

Me too. He's good for JJ right now, and so what if it's not going to last forever. People should just leave them alone.

[methodwriter85]

Because in their mind, JJ is still the 14-year old kid who slashed up his body and they don't want that to happen again?

 

From the last chapter:

 

Thanks Michael...that was pretty funny. With JJ's genetics, calm, impassioned, and asexual behavior is pretty unlikely. :-) 

 

 

Yeah, true, which makes the fact that he has to play the Disney Virginal Princess all the more funny. He can't be like Will and just bang every cute person that comes his way. There's an image to uphold here. Whatever sexual experience he has, it has to be behind closed, locked doors and with people he can trust.

 

 

Actually, you had originally told me they were in Pittsburgh, but the Eastern Sectionals were held in Ashton, PA.  The 2003 Eastern Sectionals ran from November 13-16, 2002.   So you were wrong, and I fixed it.

 

Don't forget that between Regionals and Sectionals, JJ has Skate America scheduled for October 23rd through October 27th. That takes place in Spokane, Washington.

 

Seriously though, is JJ going to expect Alex to come to that, too? It's just not possible for Alex to do all that traveling and still attend grad school full-time.

Edited September 22, 2014 by methodwriter85

[Kitt]

Does anyone else wonder if that skating coaches kids were a subject of his unwanted sexual attention?

 

Hopefully JJ has a better grip on things after several years of therapy. Just cause we haven't been hearing about it doesn't mean it stopped, especially after 9-11

[PrivateTim]

A M/D complex may have been seen as a "straight thing" in the past, but who is to say things haven't changed and evolved. I am old enough to remember when AIDS was a "gay thing" and the general belief was that if you were straight you didn't need to worry about getting the horrible disease. We all know better now after years of additional research.

 

Is getting a second room in Zach's hotel prudent? Probably not but time will tell. Teens who think they are in love, whether they really are or not, do stupid things. If they didn't things like STD's and teen pregnancies would be much less prevalent. Will and Zach don't have the corner on that market, it is indicative of teen behavior everywhere. Will just has more money to play with in the process.

 

The only thing I see as "wrong" with Alex and JJ is the disparity in maturity and experience. JJ may be older than Will, but emotionally he is way behind him. I can see him getting really hung up on Alex, something that will eventually come to an end when Alex is expected to marry and produce an heir. Even if Alex treats him like gold until then, it will still be one hell of a blow to JJ when it finally happens.

 

If the Madonna-whore complex was first postulated by Freud and Freud's theory was that it was Oedipal it by definition makes it a "straight thing" because it is only towards women from men.

 

It is great if you want to fall back on the "Will is just a teen" argument, but if "Will is just a teen" then he doesn't get input on the adults lives because he doesn't have the life experience to make those kinds of judgments. You can't have it both ways, but people continue to want to.

 

As to worrying about the experience gap between JJ & Alex, 1) it is not Alex's issue if JJ gets too hung up on him and 2) no one seemed to worry about the experience gap between Will and any of his intergenerational hook-ups.

[methodwriter85]

 

I still see Alex as a suave Eruo-gigilo. Now he's latched onto JJ, who on the surface is pure, and certainly self-absorbed, but I was thinking about still waters running deep. JJ has been a late bloomer, but the bloodlines in him certainly are not the making of the Madonna figure. He's got both the Schluter and Crampton blood flowing through his veins, and that combination is not even close to being pure.

I didn't get any experience until I was 17, and after it happened, BAM, I was a land whore just like Stef. This was in the late 70's, a lot of sex, drugs & disco balls!!

 

     It'll be interesting to see what happens to JJ as he starts to move into his late teens. I do think JJ is probably destined for a vigorous, but very discrete, sex life. But I don't know if I can really see JJ living his life with hedonistic abandon like Stefan Schluter in Land Whore, especially while his carer is going on. His life is pretty much practice, diet, practice, diet, and yet more practice. No drinking, no drugs, and not really any parties. (Except maybe if he's overseas in Europe away from the watchful eyes of the USA Figure Skating Association.)

 

     I think JJ will fit very nicely into the Madonna slot. He can be sexual and like it. He just can't be openly aggressive about it.

[Mark Arbour]

Still at a loss to figure out what it is that Alex has done wrong. He didn't ask for Wade to fall for him and he didn't treat Wade badly, quite the opposite he treated Wade with great respect and care. And since he was unaware that JJ had a crush on him his interest in JJ's skating was genuine. Some people called him a "predator" because he was aggressive with Will, but when Will all but raped the contractor on Maui people sloughed it off with, 'well it was what the contractor really wanted anyway.' The only reason Will DIDN'T respond to Alex was because JJ liked him, otherwise it would have been 'what he really wanted' and they would have done the whorizontal mambo.

 

The trouble with the whole notion behind this 'Madonna-whore complex' theory is that it is only seen in straight men in their attitude towards women and it isn't that they treat the woman they love with care and deference and then have wild unbridled sex with bad girls it is that they are unable to perform sexually with the women they put on pedestals. No lead in the pencil. The women they do have sex with are not just bad girls, but ones that are debased. Freud, who first identified the issue, thought it had its roots in Oedipal complexes, which is one reason it is seen in straight men.

 

As to Will. Will is being Will, which means he cares mostly about Will and thinks he knows what is best for everyone concerned. He has continued to tell people what they should do and when they should do it and now he is poised to interfere in JJ's love life, while people interfering in his makes him go ballistic, but he is The Will, so it is okay.

 

He didn't drive to Lafayette because he loves Zach, but because he loves Will and Will wanted sex with the guy he thinks he loves, so he shows up unannounced for his needs.

 

Next up is Waikiki. He doesn't care that getting a room in the same hotel could expose his and Zach's relationship. Will just wants what he wants. He might even want to get caught. I can't think of any other reason for him to get a room in the same hotel when he has a choice of some 70 other hotels in Waikiki that are not the De La Salle team's hotel or the hotel where his family is staying. The De La Salle hotel will be full of parents, players, DLS staff, siblings, etc. Will is sure to be seen. It might be easy to explain his presence in the hotel lobby, but less convincing on a floor in the hotel or coming off an elevator.

 

When Will and Zach do get caught the inevitable result is that Zach will hate Will for ruining all his dreams (maybe a yellow sports car gets torched?). At the pace they are going, they are sure to be caught and it is much more likely on a trip like the Oahu trip than being caught in CA where the group is more dispersed. Whether Will's desire to get caught is conscious or unconscious I don't think he has thought through how Zach will react when Will destroys the only thing Zach truly cares about.

 

That is when this story will get interesting and less The Waltons. Goodnight John-boy.

 

Welcome back!  You have been missed. 

 

I'll comment on Alex below, but I think you're being a bit unfair to Will.  We've seen a pretty pronounced change in Zach, and part of that is him actually falling in love.  Will's feelings for Zach are just as strong, so even while he's self-absorbed, he does try to go out of his way to prop Zach up, and to show him that he loves Zach.  I think he's genuinely trying to be a good boyfriend. 

 

Isn't Will known to be both rich and close to Zach? I don't think they'd even need any elaboration to their current cover story when Will is discovered in the same hotel lobby. "I felt like supporting my cousin" is all the explanation he needs to give. It's even true, if incomplete.

 

I do agree with your arguments that Alex really hasn't done anything wrong. The "wrongest" action, for lack of a better word, is that he didn't treat Wade how Wade wanted to be treated, which only proves that they were ultimately incompatible, not that either party did the other wrong.

 

I would go further from what you said about JJ, and wonder what exactly Wade and Will expect to accomplish by talking to JJ? Filling JJ's head with preconceived notions based on a past fling, when Alex provably does not enter into relationships with everyone the same way, will do no one any favors. Just as a for instance, how the hell will Wade, Will, and JJ know the difference between Alex treating JJ carefully because he thinks he's to precious for this world, or the far more laudable reason that JJ is super inexperienced?

 

And it's always great to hear from you as well!  I think your last paragraph sums up the quandary any member of the family will be in if they try to warn JJ about Alex.  I wonder if Alex doesn't seem a bit off-putting because he tends to be like a pinball, bumping from guy to guy. 

[Bucket1]

I'll comment on Alex below, but I think you're being a bit unfair to Will.  We've seen a pretty pronounced change in Zach, and part of that is him actually falling in love.  Will's feelings for Zach are just as strong, so even while he's self-absorbed, he does try to go out of his way to prop Zach up, and to show him that he loves Zach.  I think he's genuinely trying to be a good boyfriend. 

 

 

Will drove to Lefayette because he could get there under his own steam. He went there to make mad passionate love to his boyfriend. Freedom and sweaty sex is not a bad combination.

 

 

I would go further from what you said about JJ, and wonder what exactly Wade and Will expect to accomplish by talking to JJ? Filling JJ's head with preconceived notions based on a past fling, when Alex provably does not enter into relationships with everyone the same way, will do no one any favors. Just as a for instance, how the hell will Wade, Will, and JJ know the difference between Alex treating JJ carefully because he thinks he's to precious for this world, or the far more laudable reason that JJ is super inexperienced?

 

 

As for family talking to JJ about Alex - mmike1969 wanted drama - I have no doubt that Wade or Will telling JJ will bring on an explosive reaction. Will turned down sex with Alex because of the strength of feeling JJ has for Alex. Will told Alex this in clear, unambiguous terms and the message seemed to get through. Apart from supplying us with drama, I'm not sure what else Wade and Will should be doing.

[Headstall]

There seems to be very strong feelings about Alex from a lot of posters. I question myself about what makes me uneasy about him. On the surface maybe those are right that say he has done nothing really wrong. Regardless, he, like Will's character, is definitely polarizing. I guess the conclusion I am slowly reaching is that so far, everything Alex has done has been about Alex. That, in itself is not an unusual trait in a lot of us but it doesn't make it one to be admired. Yes, he treated Wade with nicety and the utmost respect but that isn't what Wade wanted. That is what Alex wanted. And he attacked and treated Matt like a cheap whore while supposedly loving Wade because that is what Alex wanted. I don't think he could care less what Matt wanted. And no, it is not his fault that he came between Wade and Matt, but he did admit that he was aware that he thought that  they belonged together. I think this knowledge made him want to put Matt in his place and he did that by treating him as a whore. Not really the nicest motivation but it doesn't make him evil...just somewhat hard to like. His anger(rage?) at Wade when he was questioned about his "complex" showed another unpleasant side..the feeling I got was that he didn't like being called on it and treated the situation badly possibly because he is not used to being taken to task. This, again, in itself is nothing terrible. With regards to coming on to Will on his birthday, I admit to finding that creepy. I know a lot would not agree here...But here is Alex, in Wade and Matt's house, with Will's dad and grandfather etc present and he really agressively comes on to Will, who has just turned sixteen. It doesn't matter that Will is old enough or willing...there are two things here...aggression as in he could have felt Will out a little better before pouncing like some oversexed, undisciplined predator...and respect..for the facts of where he was and who was present in that house he is a GUEST at. The real point here is that Alex acts nothing like he was first presented to us at first...The classy, solid, upstanding, monogamous partner that Wade was looking for and believed he had found...the royal twin to Wade's blueblood who would provide the HEA Wade was looking for. For me, he has never met those initial expectations and that is the crux of it. He does not belong on any pedestal...he is just a guy with some big issues (I think the Madonna/whore explanation applies regardless of gender-a lot has changed over the years). Is Alex a monster? No, I don't think so...he is just a little difficult to like right now. Can he do some damage? Absolutely. I think a number of readers, like the family are very concerned for JJ because of his immaturity and lack of experience and the fact that Alex has been shown to have issues that could hurt JJ. Although I admit that Alex makes me uneasy and I can't say that I trust him, I don't think he would ever hurt JJ intentionally and who knows...maybe these two would end up being good for one another. Maybe they will bring out the best in one another (although I would really like to see Alex get some professional help and face his issues). All the concern about someone talking to jj about Alex...maybe someone should talk to Alex about Alex....just sayin...cheers...Gary

[Timothy M.]

Nice date for JJ, and so far Alex has behaved perfectly and made JJ happy. I hope it continues like that for a long time and none of the family busybodies interfere. JJ could do with a bit of bliss and softly romantic dates. And I for one think Alex will be gentle about breaking things off eventually, and the argument of having to marry a woman for the same of begetting an heir will be acceptable to JJ. Although I'm fairly sure JJ does not think of the future in terms of boyfriends and forever after, since his skating is so important. He lives in the present and as long as Alex makes him happy right now, that's all that matters. If Will or anyone else tries to burst his bubble, JJ will have a fit - and quite rightly so. Just leave hm and Alex alone, for F... sake.

But I guess that solution would preclude drama.

[methodwriter85]

 

“I love classical music,” I exclaimed, probably a little too exuberantly.  But I was getting used to him, and I was getting to the point where I didn’t embarrass myself quite as bad as I used to.  “It’s pretty much what we have to skate to, at least for most of our programs.”

 

I think the main rule is that it must be instrumental. I think in my mind, I have JJ skating to a mix of classical music as well as instrumentals of Broadway standards like Les Miz. (It's been my music picks for him during his competitions, in any event.) You've done a fairly solid job of setting up the family as being pretty regular theater goers so JJ probably knows a ton of Broadway tunes to go along with his classical music collection. It does make sense that JJ has to be a pretty big classical fan- he doesn't strike me as someone who'd go against the grain and skate to Pink Floyd or ZZ Top.

 

In any event...man, it's painful to watch how blissfully naive JJ is going into his first real infatuation. Especially when, as others have put it, Alex will need to find his "whore" component.

 

I do think it's fun how, for someone who is pretty inexperienced save for his abuse, he really does seem to get exactly what he needs to play to get Alex.

 

As for Zach, him and Will really are fun. That was a funny bit.

Edited September 24, 2014 by methodwriter85

[Bucket1]

 All the concern about someone talking to jj about Alex...maybe someone should talk to Alex about Alex....just sayin...cheers...Gary

 

The last person that did that got his head bitten off!

 

I really liked your summary of Alex - he isn't someone I would like to meet. I think Alex's real "crime" is that he hurt characters we care about with a total disregard for anyone other than Alex.

 

And I stand by my comments in Flux - Mark has given Alex a far worse punishment than any of us imagined - teenage infatuation (esp from an emotionally immature teenager) could be a real nightmare. Give mmike1969 what he has been asking for - Alex deserves some real drama 

[Daddydavek]

I get the impression that many in the forum have stereotyped Alex and not in a very flattering way.  I suspect that Mark may be contributing to that impression intentionally so that he can shatter it in some dramatic matter.  I seem to remember a short time ago (story-wise) we were set-up to blame Matt for all kinds of shortcomings and he seems to have redeemed himself pretty well.  

 

While Alex is a foil and will probably never be a main character in CAP, I can see Mark bringing him back in the future, say ten years in CAP time.  It is another thing he is wont to do. 

 

I am just enjoying the story as it progresses.  My biggest concern is not JJ but Zach's ankle.  

 

My biggest regret is as I said in my review: They are in Hawaii and no mention of the beach anywhere.......

Edited September 24, 2014 by Daddydavek

[PrivateTim]

There seems to be very strong feelings about Alex from a lot of posters. I question myself about what makes me uneasy about him. On the surface maybe those are right that say he has done nothing really wrong. Regardless, he, like Will's character, is definitely polarizing. I guess the conclusion I am slowly reaching is that so far, everything Alex has done has been about Alex. That, in itself is not an unusual trait in a lot of us but it doesn't make it one to be admired. Yes, he treated Wade with nicety and the utmost respect but that isn't what Wade wanted. That is what Alex wanted. And he attacked and treated Matt like a cheap whore while supposedly loving Wade because that is what Alex wanted. I don't think he could care less what Matt wanted. And no, it is not his fault that he came between Wade and Matt, but he did admit that he was aware that he thought that  they belonged together. I think this knowledge made him want to put Matt in his place and he did that by treating him as a whore. Not really the nicest motivation but it doesn't make him evil...just somewhat hard to like. His anger(rage?) at Wade when he was questioned about his "complex" showed another unpleasant side..the feeling I got was that he didn't like being called on it and treated the situation badly possibly because he is not used to being taken to task. This, again, in itself is nothing terrible. With regards to coming on to Will on his birthday, I admit to finding that creepy. I know a lot would not agree here...But here is Alex, in Wade and Matt's house, with Will's dad and grandfather etc present and he really agressively comes on to Will, who has just turned sixteen. It doesn't matter that Will is old enough or willing...there are two things here...aggression as in he could have felt Will out a little better before pouncing like some oversexed, undisciplined predator...and respect..for the facts of where he was and who was present in that house he is a GUEST at. The real point here is that Alex acts nothing like he was first presented to us at first...The classy, solid, upstanding, monogamous partner that Wade was looking for and believed he had found...the royal twin to Wade's blueblood who would provide the HEA Wade was looking for. For me, he has never met those initial expectations and that is the crux of it. He does not belong on any pedestal...he is just a guy with some big issues (I think the Madonna/whore explanation applies regardless of gender-a lot has changed over the years). Is Alex a monster? No, I don't think so...he is just a little difficult to like right now. Can he do some damage? Absolutely. I think a number of readers, like the family are very concerned for JJ because of his immaturity and lack of experience and the fact that Alex has been shown to have issues that could hurt JJ. Although I admit that Alex makes me uneasy and I can't say that I trust him, I don't think he would ever hurt JJ intentionally and who knows...maybe these two would end up being good for one another. Maybe they will bring out the best in one another (although I would really like to see Alex get some professional help and face his issues). All the concern about someone talking to jj about Alex...maybe someone should talk to Alex about Alex....just sayin...cheers...Gary

 

Everything that Alex has done has been all about Alex? Based on what? Was going to watch JJ skate and supporting him before he knew JJ was crushing on him all about Alex? People seem to be mad at Alex because Wade hurt Matt (who people HATED for two books by the way until we saw a story from Matt's POV).

 

Maybe Wade didn't want to be treated like a princess, but wimp that Wade is he never talked to Alex about his issues in the bedroom he merely had tried to make Alex more aggressive and tried to modify Alex's behavior during sex, which is the exact wrong time to address issues in the bed. Alex didn't get Wade's passive-aggressive behavior and was caught off guard by Wade while they were having sex. It is Wade's fault that Alex didn't understand, not Alex's. As to how he had sex with Matt. I didn't hear any complaints.

 

What "rage" did Alex have? We never even saw the scene, we have an off-handed, one sentence from Wade about it. If that is rage, what do you call Will's actions through half the books?

 

Alex is not a "guest" at the house in Boston, he lives there, Will was the guest. As to Alex and his attitude about Will, surely he has heard what an oversexed, aggressive slut Will is. He actually waited until Will was 16 and didn't approach him before that. Sounds admirable to me. As to how to treat guests in your home, maybe we can recall how Will treated Ethan as a guest by aggressively going after Joe, who was Ethan's guest and Will did so without a thought to maybe Ethan and Joe were an item, it was all about what Will wanted.

 

Who presented Alex as a classy, solid, monogamous, etc anything? That was all in Wade's mind. Alex certainly didn't present himself like that? He didn't even know Wade was a love sick puppy for him initially. Any notion about Alex was based in Wade's mind, not in anything Alex said or did.

 

And no, the "Madonna/whore complex", if it exists at all, has not changed at all. It has to do with a man's feeling about women, not men. According to Freud it is rooted in the Oedipal complex of men and shapes how they feel about and treat women. You can't have an Oedipal complex that shapes how you feel about men unless your mother was a man, which even today, is still quite impossible.

 

The "fact" that Alex has issues that could hurt JJ? There has been no fact established and even if there was an established fact, how could it hurt JJ? Having sweet, gentle sex? Being put on a pedestal? As noted JJ is very inexperienced other than with a very aggressive man who took sex from JJ. At this point no one has any idea what JJ likes in bed so it is quite premature to say that any behavior could hurt him. So what if he and Alex don't work out for a relationship, most relationships don't and they are painful when they don't. That is how one gets experience.

 

The concern about talking to JJ about Alex is that the person contemplating talking to JJ about Alex is the person who ruins sports cars and wardrobes when people try to talk to him about his life. Pot, kettle, stones, glass houses and all that.

 

 

 

I really liked your summary of Alex - he isn't someone I would like to meet. I think Alex's real "crime" is that he hurt characters we care about with a total disregard for anyone other than Alex.

 

"Hurt characters we care about" pretty much describes Will the entire second half of Paternity and apparently it is okay to hurt characters we don't care about, which is what Will does when he sleeps with the guy from Palo Alto, knowing he is in a relationship.

 

I know that for the 4 billionth time I will be accused of being a Will hater and for the 4 billionth and first time I will say that Will is one of my favorite characters and narrators, but I don't understand why people excuse behaviors from him that others are called to account for. It would be nice to see consistent accountability for behaviors, no matter who is performing the behavior.

[Timothy M.]

I agree with the Alex analysis.

need I say more...

[Headstall]

Sigmund Freud has been dead for 75 years. While he was alive he was a very controversial figure and remains so to this day. As the "father" of psychoanalysis he put forth a lot of theories and assertions. By his own example he was not rigid in his thinking. He never put forth that psychiatry was a black and white science, nor does any other in this field. It is the most fluid of all the medicines and advances and theories are continually adapted and modified to understand and help the individual. In the case of the Madonna/ whore complex it is widely accepted that it is applicable to homosexual relationships and individuals. It is often referred to as the Ken Doll/ Porn Star complex with regards to gay men and is considered to have varying degrees of complexity, as is the original Madonna/whore complex. Mark presents an accurate depiction of this complex as it can apply to a gay man and to suggest that it is wrong or inaccurate would be going against a tremendous amount of research. Seventy-five years ago, gender was given more consideration in many things that it is given today. Aside from physical differences, there is general acknowledgement that masculine/ feminine traits are more interchangeable in individuals. It is my belief through my own research that individuals with psychological issues are treated based on the condition, not the gender. If anyone wants more information they can google Maddonna/whore complex in homosexuals or Ken Dolll/ Porn Star complex. Cheers...Gary

Edited September 24, 2014 by Headstall

[mmike1969]

Okay first off, every single set of handcuffs I had ever bought (including the fur lined ones) always had TWO sets of keys. Including the made in China ones. They come in pairs for a reason so if you lose one, you have the other.

 

Secondly, the ones you buy at the bookstores are not even real locks. They more like a pressure plate holding down the cuff arms. A paper clip could of opened these cheap cuffs. No I didn't break the key. I lost the key an the spare was in my car (like it's supposed to be!)

 

Lastly: do NOT put handcuff keys with your house/car key ring and enter a correctional facility. These people will get into your face and give you the third degree on WHY you have them because they think you are trying to free a prisoner or some crap.

[BeysJoshersLepton V2]

Yes I was going to mention that, well without going into to much detail all cuffs I've ever owned had a safety latch too . UK/American difference? 

[mmike1969]

Yes I was going to mention that, well without going into to much detail all cuffs I've ever owned had a safety latch too . UK/American difference?

Ah no. Some of mine had safety latches. The newer ones removed them to save a few pennies in manufacturing them. Or it's because the "prisoner" kept escaping and the masters/mistresses/cops/integrators complained about it.

 

Or perhaps too many got locked in them and the safety release broke locking the cuffs in them.

Edited September 25, 2014 by mmike1969

[PrivateTim]

and to suggest that it is wrong or inaccurate would be going against a tremendous amount of research.........

 

Feel free to cite any scientific, scholarly or medical study on the Madonna whore complex. Should be easy if there is a tremendous amount.

[Timothy M.]

Okay first off, every single set of handcuffs I had ever bought (including the fur lined ones) always had TWO sets of keys. Including the made in China ones. They come in pairs for a reason so if you lose one, you have the other.

 

I wondered about that, but having never owned a pair of handcuffs I didn't want to ask a silly question. I'm glad we can now dismiss the whole panic scene as Mark's way of having fun creating unrealistic drama.