lets work together Topic Tuesday #6: New Genre and New Point of View

[Brayon]

Today I would like to talk about two "new" writing trends that have developed over the past 5-10 years, and 20-40 years respectfully. A new genre called LitRPG and Deep PoV.

 

LitRPG

LitRPG, or Literature Role-Playing Game, is a new genre that has started in the last 5-10 years. This type of story has a few elements that are required to be a LitRPG:

1. The story is based on a Role-Playing Game. Can be a Virtual Game, like an MMO, or Tabletop.
2. The story has both "real world" and "game world" elements. So Main Character lives in the real world, and the Author writes about it, and then plays the game, from that PoV.
3. The In-Game Character knows its a game. There is Game Engine discussion, like Leveling Up, Stats, Inventory screens, gear fits, quests. etc.
4. Fantasy, SciFi, Romance, Horror, are all different styles of the genre. LitRPG is not a sub-genre of any other.
5. This is a work of Fiction, not FanFiction. But, there are some Real World games, LitRPG is based on. Most games are fictional, in these stories.

 

The type of game depicted controls the flavor. So, a Fantasy based game, makes it a Fantasy style world.

 

Deep PoV

I was sent a link via PM, to a writer's blog that spoke of Deep PoV. The writer of the blog made is sound like it's the latest in writing trends, and one that you need to heed. As most major sellers are going this route. (First person PoV can go lay an egg!) Basically what Deep PoV is this. It's the Third Person Point of View, but with Speech Tags, Sensory words, and Thought words removed.

 

SO:“Alright, son,” Adam said. He chuckled silently, shaking his head. He thought, ‘Oh, to be a teenager again.’

 

Turns into: “Alright, son.” He chuckled silently, shaking his head. ‘Oh, to be a teenager again.’

 

Because you the reader knows which character is talking and thinking, and you don't need to be told. Each scene of a story is focused on one character, and gets the treatment. Action Tags might be necessary for other character's in a scene. If you Google Search Deep PoV you can find some related blogs, and articles about it, with more examples. A word of caution though... There was some Not Safe For Work results when I searched.

 

As it was pointed out to me, several GA authors already use the Deep PoV method in their writings. Two such examples are @Mikiesboy and @AC Benus. I personally hadn't noticed until it was pointed out, and I went back and looked at some of their writings. Also, Stephen King in his book, On Writing (and subject of the First Topic Tuesday) has ideas and thoughts on this Point of View aspect.

 

So, what do you think of the latest writing trends? Have you used Deep PoV? Would you write a LitRPG?

 

[Mikiesboy]

I don't know, I suppose LitRPG could be fun, if I found a game I was interested in writing about.

 

About this pov thing.. well it's been a 'thing' for a long time. And I'd have to say the majority of seasoned authors write this way.

 

There have been a couple of blogs about speech tags on GA. Here is one:

 

 

We need to provide direction to the reader as to who is speaking. Not doing so is frustrating, and ruins the flow of the story. We do not want readers to have to go back and try to sort out who is speaking. I know, I have had to do it.

 

Therefore we cannot do without speech tags altogether, but they are not needed all the time, and in my opinion they should be short and sweet and used judiciously.

 

There are a lot of rules in writing, most of which I tend to break on a regular basis. I do what I need to for the story, there is no 'right' way all of the time. I think we need to learn about all the tools we have, learn the tricks of the trade, so to speak and use them when necessary. The writing needs to strong, not weak or lazy. Writing, well, good writing, is hard work.

 

One powerful tool a lot of people don't use is time.

 

A lot of people will write the story, going through self-edits, then your editor and beta reader.  Then when it comes back, they post it immediately. I truly feel, having learned this from my own editor, and experience, is to NOT post immediately. Put it away overnight at least, longer if you can. Then read it with fresh eyes. Read it with an open mind, and fix it because you will find things you can make stronger. In this case, time is your friend.

 

Write on!

 

[FormerMember4]

Good topic A.

I have to agree with @Mikiesboy. Every piece you write is different. This will always change style, PoV, and structure. I wrote something in your first topic regarding rules. A book I read, authors motto is (Tools, not rules).

I read a lot of authors using Deep PoV. Someone using a screen reader, I love this style. Using speech bubbles doesn’t sound natural when a synthesized voice reads speech bubbles. That’s not on the author, but the software.

Deep PoV does flow better. Again, it’s what a specific story requires that will dictate style.

[MacGreg]

I agree that the Deep POV is the better way to go. I try to establish who is speaking through non-verbal actions, however, inserting "he said", "she interjected" here and there is oftentimes necessary to keep confusion at bay. I also find that, at least in my own writing, that such notations can enhance the flow of writing rather than hinder it when used correctly. 

Example:

 

DEEP POV: Paul turned to look at David. His eyes showed his anger. "Look, I don't know what you thought you were doing back there, but you should mind your own business."

 

NOT SO DEEP POV: "Look," Paul said, turning to David with anger in his eyes. "I don't know what you thought you were doing back there, but you should mind your own business."

 

I think either of these examples can work in the right context. Again, it all depends on how well the scene as a whole flows together. I believe that the true craft of story-telling isn't just in the world-building, it's also in the wordsmithing. 

 

I scanned a story recently where the author used dialogue descriptions and character actions italicized inside parentheses to denote tones and expressions. The end result made it read like a play to be directed on stage rather than a story. It was an interesting style but far too distracting from the flow.

 

Anyway, good topic, A.   

[Mikiesboy]

16 hours ago, MacGreg said:

scanned a story recently where the author used dialogue descriptions and character actions italicized inside parentheses to denote tones and expressions. The end result made it read like a play to be directed on stage rather than a story. It was an interesting style but far too distracting from the flow

yes, Sir, fine if you're writing a play ... but the last time i put parentheses in something my dear editor rapped my knuckles for it ... i know some editors say it's okay .. but frankly, my opinion is they do not belong in fiction.  Business writing yes, i use them often. But not in my prose any longer. There are better ways, such as commas, and the em dash.

[Pmsingtiger]

I built sites for RPG's while I was in high school, also posted on a few for a couple of years. It's fun, but can be upsetting when your character doesn't get any posts in response. 

 

So questions... Is deep POV not in first person perspective? 

[Brayon]

19 minutes ago, Pmsingtiger said:

Is deep POV not in first person perspective? 

From what I have read, on various bogs, and some Deep POV stories: No.

It is a Third Person, Head Hopping by scene, Omnisentient, point of view.

[Pmsingtiger]

8 minutes ago, BHopper2 said:

From what I have read, on various bogs, and some Deep POV stories: No.

It is a Third Person, Head Hopping by scene, Omnisentient, point of view.

Oh I think I know what that is. I’m not much for head hoping. I can’t keep up. 😂

[Brayon]

2 minutes ago, Pmsingtiger said:

Oh I think I know what that is. I’m not much for head hoping. I can’t keep up. 😂

One of the tricks of head-hopping is to keep in one head, until the scene changes. Some I've read, will stay in one head for an entire chapter or book.

[Pmsingtiger]

4 hours ago, BHopper2 said:

One of the tricks of head-hopping is to keep in one head, until the scene changes. Some I've read, will stay in one head for an entire chapter or book.

What sorcery is this? 😱 These people are certified magic wielders in my book. I can barely keep from making the “me” and “my” typo. 

[Laura S. Fox]

Ha, ha, I had no idea it was a trend and it has a name, even. I think I have been practicing Deep POV without knowing it! Thank you for making it clear for me. I beleive it works only when you focus the story on a single character. It must have something to do with immersion. Personally, I like it, I just didn't know it was a thing.

 

As for LitRPG, I don't know. I tried to read some, and found them pretty tedious. I just think it's more fun to play games, rather than read them.

[Brayon]

1 hour ago, Laura S. Fox said:

As for LitRPG, I don't know. I tried to read some, and found them pretty tedious. I just think it's more fun to play games, rather than read them.

This is the next project, I'm working on, and I'm finding it tedious as well. While I have read and enjoyed stories in this genre, there are some expectations that "fans" of the LitRPG are very much varied on.

 

Some like only settlement building, while some want to see powergamer tactics used, and if you even hint at romance, they'll toss your book into a fire somewhere.

[Superpride]

LitRPG sounds so interesting in my opinion, and I'm glad that there's a name to it.  I've been trying to find a tabletop game that I can use as a foundation to write a short story on top of.  There a board game called Dead of Winter that has storytelling elements in it, but I want to expand it, so that writing a story will be possible.  If you don't mind, can you name some of the video and tabletop games that you use for your stories if you haven't already?

[Brayon]

2 hours ago, Superpride said:

If you don't mind, can you name some of the video and tabletop games that you use for your stories if you haven't already?

I have a FanFic that is based on EvE Online.

Another has elements from D&D 5e in it.

Another is based on campaign notes from a Palladium books game.

One based on Star Trek Online.

An article on how to use RPGs to be a better worldbuilder and writer.

 

Now, most of these were written at a time when I didn't know about LitRPG, and they are mostly narrative. I'm currently writing a LitRPG that is simply titles right now Timeless. This one is going to be more Real World / Game World story within a story split.