covid19 Posts from the Apocalypse

[northie]

On 4/10/2020 at 5:56 PM, Zombie said:

2metre “social distancing” gap - not possible on public transport

You been on a bus lately? 3 passengers and the driver make it pretty easy round my way. The main pinch point is getting on and off but the drivers already have plastic shields and now the holes have been blocked off. I often thanked the drivers before all of this; I make sure I do it every time now. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, northie said:

You been on a bus lately? 3 passengers and the driver make it pretty easy round my way. The main pinch point is getting on and off but the drivers already have plastic shields and now the holes have been blocked off. I often thanked the drivers before all of this; I make sure I do it every time now. 

The buses in my area require rear door entry (so they are free because the fare box is next to the driver at the front door). The front of the bus is taped off and only passengers with mobility devices are allowed into that area. The buses are only crowded-ish during commute times – and these are buses that would be standing room only during the commute.

I always thank the driver (unless they’ve been particularly rude to me). I especially thank them when I have to use the bus on Thanksgiving and Christmas. I’ve given drivers origami star ornaments as a thank you* too.
 

* Thank you, Tim!  ;–)

Edited April 11, 2020 by droughtquake

[Mikiesboy]

1 hour ago, droughtquake said:

We outnumber the other CA.

There's only like 6 of us here.

[Mikiesboy]

14 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

Should there be an apostrophe there or not? It looks wrong to me either way.

Write it this way: I’ve given drivers origami star ornaments as a thank you too.

[Zombie]

4 hours ago, northie said:

You been on a bus lately? 3 passengers and the driver make it pretty easy round my way. The main pinch point is getting on and off but the drivers already have plastic shields and now the holes have been blocked off. I often thanked the drivers before all of this; I make sure I do it every time now. 

No, I explained previously why I must self isolate so my impressions come from watching the usual TV news and maybe everything’s been tightened up BUT I still wouldn’t put myself at risk e.g. bus stops that are on narrow streets where other pedestrians, or disembarking passengers, cannot pass by at 2m. And if bus companies now only allow a small fraction of the total number of seats to be occupied in order to comply with social distancing then, unless companies are running many more buses on each route (not likely I would have thought), just how long do people now have to wait at the bus stop before a bus finally comes along that they’re allowed to get on?

And then there’s the tube...

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, Zombie said:

And if bus companies now only allow a small fraction of the total number of seats to be occupied in order to comply with social distancing then, unless companies are running many more buses on each route (not likely I would have thought), just how long do people now have to wait at the bus stop before a bus finally comes along that they’re allowed to get on?

At least around here, very few people are leaving their homes to go out.

In San Francisco, they’ve actually reduced service to a bare minimum. SF has been known as one of the cities in the US with the highest usage of public transportation of all sorts. They’ve had several drivers become infected, so they don’t have the staffing to run all their normal routes. They aren’t running the cable car or Metro subway/LRV services at all. The head of SFMTA (the transit agency that runs the buses, subway/LRV trains, cable cars, street cars, and trolleys and controls parking meters) was on TV begging people to use any other form of transit because of their service reductions. He was asking anyone who wasn’t a first responder or critical worker to stay off the system.

BART ridership is down 95%, so they’ve reduced hours and cut their service by increasing to 30 minute waits between trains (instead of every 15 minutes).

[Fae Briona]

On 4/10/2020 at 12:20 PM, Daddydavek said:

We're using cloth masks that loop over the ears.  Not really medical, but better than nothing.  We wash them with soap and water after each use and let them dry.

Mom told me yesterday that one of the ladies in the independent living center she lives in made masks for all of the people on her floor.  A mix of altruism & self-preservation, but at least she has a mask now.

[Zombie]

Face masks

Fabric / “washable” face masks - a warning

Anyone wearing one of these owes it to themselves and others to understand the efficacy of these.

This is a British Medical Association report published in its online BMJ journal in 2015. There’s a lot of other information out there - some is evidence based, much isn’t. 

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/bmjopen/5/4/e006577.full.pdf

If you don’t read the whole thing then at least read this:

Results: The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory- confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.
Conclusions: This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

 

Medical masks - dos and don’ts

If you have a proper medical mask - correction, if you have a large supply of medical masks - then this is what you should and should not do:

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Zombie said:

Anyone wearing one of these owes it to themselves and others to understand the efficacy of these.

Right now the issue is the efficacy of a cloth mask vs no mask at all. It would be great if there were sufficient quantities of effective masks available to everyone, along with in-person training on the use and safe removal of such masks. But even the best prepared countries don’t have the masks available to do that.

[Zombie]

9 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

Right now the issue is the efficacy of a cloth mask vs no mask at all. It would be great if there were sufficient quantities of effective masks available to everyone, along with in-person training on the use and safe removal of such masks. But even the best prepared countries don’t have the masks available to do that.

With respect I disagree - the issue is whether users of a “cloth mask” properly understand the protection they do or don’t provide.

Being lulled into a false sense of security is an extraordinarily material risk in this dangerous time. The evidence for this is all around us, not just in the use of “face masks” but in the sadly all-too-common disregard of social distancing guidance / rules / laws (whichever applies in your own state or country), or the belief that “I’m young / healthy - it doesn’t matter if I get it”.

[Guest]

Some of us still need to go out occasionally. I cannot afford to rely on delivery for my groceries. Besides, masks are intended to prevent me from spreading germs I wasn’t aware I might be infected with. They’re not intended to prevent me from getting an infection from someone else.

[Daddydavek]

There is a reason that 2.5 billion oriental people are wearing them when they have to go out.  As Droughtquake and Zombie have noted, they do have their limitations but they are better than nothing when you have to get out to get groceries or to the drug store.  Additionally, if they are washed completely with soap and water after each time you go out and are completely dry before wearing out again, they do prevent some spread of the contagion.  Every little bit helps and that is why some places are making them mandatory.

The most alarming facts I've found about this virus is that scientist are unable to get a clue as to why some patients clearly infected are completely or nearly symptom free, while others have ongoing mild to moderate symptoms for some time, while others quickly deteriorate and need a ventilator in a matter of just days.  They are still sorting out the extraneous variables and of course underlying conditions are a factor, but even some people with serious underlying factors don't do too bad and some fairly young people with no underlying conditions have devastatingly mortal effects.  The health officials are less than transparent about the rate of death once a patient is put on a ventilator and how many recover and can get off.  Finally the anecdotal details of those who survived and were weaned off the ventilator indicates all have some residual loss of lung capacity and most have some significant loss. 

I'm not alone in thinking we know less than we need to know and until we have widespread testing for active virus as well as widespread testing for antibodies the epidemiologists and infection control specialists are just guessing as to when we can begin ending sheltering in place.  Any vaccine, no matter how much money is spent is at best a year away and probably 18 months until one is widely available.  I worry by that time the toll may be in the tens of millions....

My other worry is that as governments become more desperate in trying to control the epidemic, people are losing their liberties in unprecedented ways and they may never be reclaimed...

[Zombie]

1 hour ago, droughtquake said:

Some of us still need to go out occasionally. I cannot afford to rely on delivery for my groceries. Besides, masks are intended to prevent me from spreading germs I wasn’t aware I might be infected with. They’re not intended to prevent me from getting an infection from someone else.

I think you’ll find that everyone needs “to go out occasionally”

That’s not the issue.

What is pertinent is when you say “masks are intended to prevent me from spreading germs I wasn’t aware I might be infected with”

“intended”

We all know the saying about intentions and where they can lead...

So I’m just going to repeat one sentence from the extract of the report Results/Conclusion I quoted above:

“Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally.“ 

That was 5 years ago. More recent “further research” on the increased risk of infection from “moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration“ should now be out there.  So, have you informed yourself? Because if not, there is a risk that cloth/fabric mask wearers might actually contribute to spreading the disease due to inherent deficiencies in those masks and/or human behaviour changed by a false sense of security.

[Zombie]

21 minutes ago, Daddydavek said:

There is a reason that 2.5 billion oriental people are wearing them when they have to go out.  As Droughtquake and Zombie have noted, they do have their limitations but they are better than nothing when you have to get out to get groceries or to the drug store.  Additionally, if they are washed completely with soap and water after each time you go out and are completely dry before wearing out again, they do prevent some spread of the contagion.  Every little bit helps and that is why some places are making them mandatory.

A lot of people may do a certain thing, or behave in a particular way, but it doesn’t follow that that is the right thing to do. We can all think of plenty of examples.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Zombie said:

A lot of people may do a certain thing, or behave in a particular way, but it doesn’t follow that that is the right thing to do. We can all think of plenty of examples.

But countries like China and South Korea have managed to control the spread of the virus and the wearing of masks seems to have been part of the solution. I’ve never suggested that people should act carelessly, in fact I’ve ranted about those who disregard warnings from medical experts. I’m not saying that people should not practice other means of disease control in addition. No one thinks the masks are the only answer!

Edited April 13, 2020 by droughtquake

[Carlos Hazday]

Homophobia's alive and well. I rarely wish anyone get sick and die but...

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article241947201.html?fbclid=IwAR27Pavz4se8ujGjvPlgXKOw3nsz2Lk1lw7ziz-x6spx7Il3IDKi4nPhRHA

 

 

[Parker Owens]

23 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

Homophobia's alive and well. I rarely wish anyone get sick and die but...

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article241947201.html?fbclid=IwAR27Pavz4se8ujGjvPlgXKOw3nsz2Lk1lw7ziz-x6spx7Il3IDKi4nPhRHA

 

 

It’s a cold day out, but my blood is boiling. 

[Zombie]

1 hour ago, Carlos Hazday said:

Homophobia's alive and well. I rarely wish anyone get sick and die but...

Surely if “truth justice and the American way” still exists he will then be forced from office and never be able to hold any public office ever again.

Public humiliation, excoriation and media reviling will be a much better punishment.

 

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Carlos Hazday said:

Homophobia's alive and well. I rarely wish anyone get sick and die but...

Oh yes, the notorious ‘If…’ fake apology, albeit a novel form.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Zombie said:

Surely if “truth justice and the American way” still exists he will then be forced from office and never be able to hold any public office ever again.

Unfortunately, he’ll be out of a job while on trial, then quietly get another one in different state a few month later. That’s what happened to the BART police officer who murdered a passenger on New Year’s Day on the Fruitvale Station platform. It’s a pattern.

Edited April 16, 2020 by droughtquake

[Zombie]

Interesting item on ITV news tonight about a coronavirus patient, Stacey Fresno, in critical condition at a London hospital and given just hours to live. A simple technique called “proning” was used - basically, turning the patient so they’re lying on their stomach which helps drain fluid from the lungs / enables parts of the lung to regain function  - and Stacey is now back home recovering.

https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/04/coronavirus-mother-stacey-fresco-has-had-hours-to-live-but-survives-after-being-returned-to-the-stomach-uk-news.html

 

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Zombie

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Zombie said:

Interesting item on ITV news tonight about a coronavirus patient, Stacey Fresno, in critical condition at a London hospital and given just hours to live. A simple technique called “proning” was used - basically, turning the patient so they’re lying on their stomach - and Stacey is now back home recovering which helps drain fluid from the lungs / enables parts of the lung to regain function.

I was under the impression that this procedure was common in Italy.

It’s clear that the UK and the US are suffering from very similar issues.
;–)

[Zombie]

1 hour ago, droughtquake said:

I was under the impression that this procedure was common in Italy.

It’s clear that the UK and the US are suffering from very similar issues.
;–)

You may be right, so the more people in all countries know about this the better and this site / thread is one more way of spreading information like this - sometimes asking the right question, as Mr Fresco did, can be a matter of life or death  

[Talo Segura]

27 minutes ago, Zombie said:

You may be right, so the more people in all countries know about this the better and this site / thread is one more way of spreading information like this - sometimes asking the right question, as Mr Fresco did, can be a matter of life or death  

It's common practice in France, one of the reasons so many medical personnel are need. It takes five people to turn a patient who is being incubated.

[Carlos Hazday]

Music always helps during hard times...