A home grown readership or international?

[Zombie]

18 hours ago, LJCC said:

YOU, as a WRITER, wrote it that way for a reason. And that reason is FOR your characters, NOT for your readers.

Surely that’s the nub of this lively discussion 

and it applies equally to use of the vernacular

Barry Hines’s novel, A Kestrel For A Knave, simply would not have worked had it been written in ‘standard English’. He just had to write the dialogue in the dialect of those working class Barnsley mining communities in order to bring to life, on the page, the characters and their living conditions. The book sold well internationally, and I doubt most Americans would have difficulty understanding passages like this:

“Billy lay with his back to him, listening. Then he turned his cheek slightly from the pillow.
'Jud?'
'What?'
'Tha'd better get up.'
No answer.
'Alarm's gone off tha knows.'
'Think I don't know?'
He pulled the blankets tighter and drilled his head into the pillow. They both lay still.
'Jud?'
'What?'
'Tha'll be late.'
'O, shut it.'
'Clock's not fast tha knows.'
'I said SHUT IT.'
He swung his fists under the blankets and thumped Billy in the kidneys.
'Gi'o'er! That hurts!'
'Well shut it then.'
'I'll tell my mam on thi.'
Jud swung again. Billy scuffled away to the cold at the edge of the bed, sobbing.”

Poor Billy. It’s a hard story of a hard life  

For the same reason, Irvine Welsh wrote most of Trainspotting in the Scottish dialect ‘Scots’ (more than half the chapters are completely in Scots, and 17 are a mix of English and Scots) that outside Scotland can be challenging, but it’s sold more than 1m within the UK and in other countries:

"Ah'll huv tae stoap sayin' 'ken' sae much. These dudes might think ah'm a sortay pleb."

"The lager's loupin. Seems tae huv gone dead flat, ken. Tastes like fuckin pish."

"zit-encrusted squeaky-voiced wankers playing oot a miserable pretension tae the arts"

I’m sure there are plenty of examples of state-based American fiction which might be challenging in other states, never mind internationally, but they still sell.

[LJCC]

6 minutes ago, Zombie said:

Surely that’s the nub of this lively discussion 

and it applies equally to use of the vernacular

Barry Hines’s novel, A Kestrel For A Knave, simply would not have worked had it been written in ‘standard English’. He just had to write the dialogue in the dialect of those working class Barnsley mining communities in order to bring to life, on the page, the characters and their living conditions. The book sold well internationally, and I doubt most Americans would have difficulty understanding passages like this:

“Billy lay with his back to him, listening. Then he turned his cheek slightly from the pillow.
'Jud?'
'What?'
'Tha'd better get up.'
No answer.
'Alarm's gone off tha knows.'
'Think I don't know?'
He pulled the blankets tighter and drilled his head into the pillow. They both lay still.
'Jud?'
'What?'
'Tha'll be late.'
'O, shut it.'
'Clock's not fast tha knows.'
'I said SHUT IT.'
He swung his fists under the blankets and thumped Billy in the kidneys.
'Gi'o'er! That hurts!'
'Well shut it then.'
'I'll tell my mam on thi.'
Jud swung again. Billy scuffled away to the cold at the edge of the bed, sobbing.”

Poor Billy. It’s a hard story of a hard life  

For the same reason, Irvine Welsh wrote most of Trainspotting in the Scottish dialect ‘Scots’ (more than half the chapters are completely in Scots, and 17 are a mix of English and Scots) that outside Scotland can be challenging, but it’s sold more than 1m within the UK and in other countries:

"Ah'll huv tae stoap sayin' 'ken' sae much. These dudes might think ah'm a sortay pleb."

"The lager's loupin. Seems tae huv gone dead flat, ken. Tastes like fuckin pish."

"zit-encrusted squeaky-voiced wankers playing oot a miserable pretension tae the arts"

I’m sure there are plenty of examples of state-based American fiction which might be challenging in other states, never mind internationally, but they still sell.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Trainspotting.

It really makes you think, as a Brit, why we're better than Scottish people. (I'm kidding, btw. I dated a Scot so I love Scottish men.)

The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn is the most American novel I could think of that uses dialect writing. If Mark Twain wrote it differently, in your standard American English, I doubt it would have had the same impact.

[JamesSavik]

When part of one of my stories took place in Australia, I checked in with a real Aussie for a reality check.

He helped me get the dialogue right.

I do a lot of research on any location I set my stories. I double that when I set a story outside the US, and try to be respectful of those locales and the people who live there. Especially the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand because I genuinely like them.

Aussies and Kiwis were here for us after Katrina. We haven't forgotten it.

 

Edited February 8, 2024 by JamesSavik

[Bill W]

2 hours ago, Zombie said:

Surely that’s the nub of this lively discussion 

and it applies equally to use of the vernacular

Barry Hines’s novel, A Kestrel For A Knave, simply would not have worked had it been written in ‘standard English’. He just had to write the dialogue in the dialect of those working class Barnsley mining communities in order to bring to life, on the page, the characters and their living conditions. The book sold well internationally, and I doubt most Americans would have difficulty understanding passages like this:

“Billy lay with his back to him, listening. Then he turned his cheek slightly from the pillow.
'Jud?'
'What?'
'Tha'd better get up.'
No answer.
'Alarm's gone off tha knows.'
'Think I don't know?'
He pulled the blankets tighter and drilled his head into the pillow. They both lay still.
'Jud?'
'What?'
'Tha'll be late.'
'O, shut it.'
'Clock's not fast tha knows.'
'I said SHUT IT.'
He swung his fists under the blankets and thumped Billy in the kidneys.
'Gi'o'er! That hurts!'
'Well shut it then.'
'I'll tell my mam on thi.'
Jud swung again. Billy scuffled away to the cold at the edge of the bed, sobbing.”

Poor Billy. It’s a hard story of a hard life  

For the same reason, Irvine Welsh wrote most of Trainspotting in the Scottish dialect ‘Scots’ (more than half the chapters are completely in Scots, and 17 are a mix of English and Scots) that outside Scotland can be challenging, but it’s sold more than 1m within the UK and in other countries:

"Ah'll huv tae stoap sayin' 'ken' sae much. These dudes might think ah'm a sortay pleb."

"The lager's loupin. Seems tae huv gone dead flat, ken. Tastes like fuckin pish."

"zit-encrusted squeaky-voiced wankers playing oot a miserable pretension tae the arts"

I’m sure there are plenty of examples of state-based American fiction which might be challenging in other states, never mind internationally, but they still sell.

But that's not a foreign language and can easily be figured out, although it's obvious that they are lower class, possibly uneducated speakers.  

[Bill W]

24 minutes ago, JamesSavik said:

When part of one of my stories took place in Australia, I checked in with a real Aussie for a reality check.

He helped me get the dialogue right.

I do a lot of research on any location I set my stories. I double that when I set a story outside the US, and try to be respectful of those locales and the people who live there. Especially the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand because I genuinely like them.

Aussies and Kiwis were here for us after Katrina. We haven't forgotten it.

 

Again, that's English, but with a slightly different vocabulary that would need to be explained, and I'm sure that's what you did, one way or another.   It's the same type of problem peiople have when they hear or try to sing Waltzing Matilda.  

[E K Stokes]

12 minutes ago, Bill W said:

It's the same type of problem people have when they hear or try to sing Waltzing Matilda.  

You just need the words explained and here is that perfect interpretation... https://sound-au.com/matilda.htm 😂

[Bill W]

13 minutes ago, E K Stokes said:

You just need the words explained and here is that perfect interpretation... https://sound-au.com/matilda.htm 😂

I believe that's an example of overexplaining, because he explained common words that we already understood or could easily figure out.  All we needed were the explanations for the Aussie lingo.  Wrap your laughing gear 'round that, mate? 

Edited February 8, 2024 by Bill W