The readership is very small.

[Mattyboy]

On 8/23/2023 at 10:57 PM, Mark Arbour said:

I think that reviewers should, in general, be generous.  This is a hobby for me, and probably for the other authors here.  Bad reviews and excessive criticism can be crushing, especially if the author is just starting out.  It's not like your review is for the NY Times.  That being said, constructive criticism is vital for growth, and as an author, you have to develop a bit of a thick skin. 

 

This.  To add; constructive isn't that hard. Even if something's a C+ story, did something make you laugh?  a scene evoked an emotion?  was there a clever turn-of-phrase? did you recognize the obscure (or niche) reference? supporting character did something interesting? a setting you know well? or that's new to you?

 

Because how could we know if new author is brass-balls confident or has nervously overcome self-doubt?  Or is an established author experimenting under a pseudonym?    

 

Further, I'm following a few stories here that have a smallish group of commenters; but they're the right group of commenters.  People that know the setting, like the tempo, get the references, and appreciate the genre.  That's pretty awesome, and  sometimes you can have a better conversation with six than with 300.  So that's cool,  too. 

I'm very much with @Krista and @Mark Arbour  that I'm here for what GA is, and I don't think I'd like change that wasn't organic growth.  

[drown]

On 8/29/2023 at 7:17 PM, Mattyboy said:

[...]

Because how could we know if new author is brass-balls confident or has nervously overcome self-doubt?  Or is an established author experimenting under a pseudonym?   

[...] 

This is me. Nervously overcoming self-doubt.

It took me 13 years to get my ass in gear and post writing of my own after reading for such a long time. But there was never a doubt that this was the perfect place for me to do so.

The way GA is structured right now is kind of perfect. Sure, there is nostalgia on my part with it being a forum community and not some sort of Discourse/Discord/social media style endeavor. I grew up with a modem after all. I'm sure the world will grow out of Tik Tok in time too, while this remains—fingers crossed.

So readership numbers are... I don't know. Not comparable?

The worlds of someone posting on GA and finding like-minded readers and growing as a writer in doing so compared to a potentially traditionally published author in the future who is managing their Instagram and Tik Tok and YouTube profiles, while at the same time writing to agents to find representation, could not be more different. I would say that other than putting words on a page, they have nothing to do with each other.

And having said that, should I in my infinite wisdom—and most of all luck—ever be in a situation where this could become a career, it would not displace the engagement with my readership on GA. Or the fact that I'd still like to write stories for GA. In a sense, the stories here can be more. More than just neatly packed up, and edited for the market, contained stories or limited series.

So. Take this all with a grain of salt. I am a numbers person and greatly enjoyed OP's analysis and statistics. But it's not in any way diminishing the fun I have over the past decade, or the fun I'm experiencing right now with having people read my shit.

Also I just posted my first story, so what am I talking about 😅

Thanks to everyone who makes this site thrive. I believe it is.

[drown]

On 7/29/2023 at 8:47 AM, Hero said:

The best an author might hope to achieve, is 1000 page views per chapter. 

I kept thinking back to this thread. Because I like statistics. I had no data to go by when I originally posted a reply here three weeks ago. Now I do.

OP's data is unfortunately just wrong. Just no.

I am a nobody. I started writing here on December 28, 2023, just a little over three weeks ago. I have had no followers, no readership, no story to my name. The only thing I have right now is one story, and it's not complete, so there are no reviews either. If the "best an author might hope to achieve, is 1000 page views per chapter", then how does a nobody get 2,215 views on chapter 1 of a story within its first three weeks of publishing?

I am so incredibly thankful to the community for accepting me and giving me a chance here. It has been incredible. It is driving force for me to get better, and to continue posting, because all of you are awesome.

I have received nothing but good feedback, and some criticism—which is appreciated—, and have been welcomed as someone who is just trying this writing thing.

If anyone reads this who is wondering if posting to GA is a good idea: It is. And the readership is anything but small. I'm looking forward to reading your stories, too. Please don't be discouraged.

[ReaderPaul]

Here is an interesting, if somewhat poorly written, article from June of 2022 (according to the date at the top of the page) about book sales, including average fiction book sales, non-fiction book sales, what type of sales figures are required to be a best seller, and so on.  

https://www.tagari.com/how-many-copies-do-most-fiction-books-sell/#:~:text=Most fiction books sell only a few hundred,must sell at least 5%2C000 copies per week.

[Mark Arbour]

10 hours ago, ReaderPaul said:

Here is an interesting, if somewhat poorly written, article from June of 2022 (according to the date at the top of the page) about book sales, including average fiction book sales, non-fiction book sales, what type of sales figures are required to be a best seller, and so on.  

https://www.tagari.com/how-many-copies-do-most-fiction-books-sell/#:~:text=Most fiction books sell only a few hundred,must sell at least 5%2C000 copies per week.

You’re right about it being poorly written. 😃 

Thanks for posting it, but I didn’t find it all that useful.  It seems to me that it’s all about publishing hard copy content, which isn’t something I’d want to do anyway.  That’s kind of an old model.  

[ReaderPaul]

1 minute ago, Mark Arbour said:

You’re right about it being poorly written. 😃 

Thanks for posting it, but I didn’t find it all that useful.  It seems to me that it’s all about publishing hard copy content, which isn’t something I’d want to do anyway.  That’s kind of an old model.  

The point is, print books are becoming less common, and not that well read.  One point the article did NOT make is, that if the average fiction book sells about 500 copies, the majority of fiction books published sell LESS than 500 copies.  Reasoning:  Sales from a Christopher Paolini or a John Grisham or a Larry Niven or a Nora Roberts (or her pen name J. D. Robb) are averaged in with those. 

I have worked in three different bookstores over the years ,as a part time worker and part time management -- and the decline in physical bookstores is to be lamented.  When the town closest to me had half the population it does now we had 5 bookstores.  One by one, they all closed except one, and the last one has maybe half the business it did 15 years ago.  The convenience of electronic books and publishing on the internet have taken a major toll on physical books.

Traditional publishing, with the marketing power of traditional publishers, is losing power, but still produces best sellers once in a while.  The readership on GA and other online sites may be limited, but seems to be quite loyal.  We are fortunate to have the resource of GA and some others.

[Darryl62]

I have started to write a story and hope to see it here on GA, and this forum has given me both hope and thought about my small flame that I am nurturing.  @Mark Arbouris right about comments,  I have messaged some authors about spelling or storyline disconects, but always praise in public.  @kbois can stand some ribbing from her loyal crew which at times is like a family gathering!

[Darryl62]

On 8/3/2023 at 8:54 AM, Mrsgnomie said:

I've done something similar to encourage lurkers to become members and also to encourage engagement. I've had some success. Everyone wants to be invited to the party. It doesn't guarantee they'll be active, but it's a step.  

I became a premium member became of you and I am very grateful for the nudge you gave 

[kbois]

1 hour ago, Darryl62 said:

I have started to write a story and hope to see it here on GA, and this forum has given me both hope and thought about my small flame that I am nurturing.  @Mark Arbouris right about comments,  I have messaged some authors about spelling or storyline disconects, but always praise in public.  @kbois can stand some ribbing from her loyal crew which at times is like a family gathering!

I don't know how I missed this thread when it was first out. Yeah... my krew can be complete PITAs, but like any family, you roll with it. 

Numbers as they relate to any story on here is just that... numbers. Looking at likes, or comment count, or even how many five star reviews won't tell you what a story is about. 

That's the crux of it for me. I want a story that's engaging and holds my attention. It needs to be relatively correct as far as structure and grammar, but that's mostly because I find it distracting when it's not. The only way I'm going to find out if I'm going to like a story is to read it. No amount of thumbs up or hearts will make me continue a story if I don't find it interesting. (Or if they kill the dog... nope... I'm out)

That being said, GA has a lot of talented writers, even more middle-of-the-road writers, and it's fair share of those who desperately need lessons in grammar. Even writers who may not have the best skills can still find readership. 

GA is what you make of it. If you're here for stories... you'll find plenty. If you're here for camaraderie, there's a plethora of that. If you're here to get tips on writing, yep, we've got those too. 

I'm one of those people who came for the stories, took a chance at learning how to write (and making plenty of mistakes along the way), and stay because of the community. I've made some lifelong friends here and I wouldn't trade that for anything. 

So numbers? They're fun to look at and even more fun to know @Mrsgnomie is panicking when a another story starts racking up recommendations and threatens her top spot (chill G 🤣) but I dont think any of us are under the illusion that we're the next Judith Krantz or Dean Koontz. (Personally, I'd settle for Dr. Seuss)

@Darryl62, if there's one piece of advice I  can give it's to go for it. Write that story, find a beta, and post it. Engage with your readers, it's more of a reward than any number. 

[JLynch]

I appreciate all of the information and good advice rendered in this thread.

I’m still a bit confused, however. What do “views” mean? Is that simply someone scrolling past the story on the activity or latest entry pages? Or, is it someone actually clicking on the story. Same for chapter views. Why are they significantly lower than views for the overall story?

[Myr]

14 minutes ago, JLynch said:

Or, is it someone actually clicking on the story. Same for chapter views. Why are they significantly lower than views for the overall story?

Story views are clicks on the Story page( Table of Contents) + chapter views. 

Chapter views are clicks on chapter only. 

If you have a very high story view, but low chapter views, that usually means your story blurb did not sell. Enough to get someone to view the description, but not enough to get them to read. 

 

[drown]

1 hour ago, Myr said:

Story views are clicks on the Story page( Table of Contents) + chapter views. 

Chapter views are clicks on chapter only. 

If you have a very high story view, but low chapter views, that usually means your story blurb did not sell. Enough to get someone to view the description, but not enough to get them to read. 

Oh stop it with your facts and reality. 😅 But interesting to know, thank you.

If I re-read a story a few months later, will it get another view? I'm always logged in so I would guess I only ever count once?

I am losing many people after chapter one. I couldn't care less, everyone who is commenting is very awesome :3

[JamesSavik]

Not too terribly long ago, when facing criticism at one of Dizney's horrible movies, a director told a critic, "This wasn't written for you". Indeed, it did seem like the director was trying to corner the market for black lesbian, double amputees who were raised by wolves. This isn't something a bazillion dollar corporation should be doing because their objective is to make more bazillions of dollars and pandering to tiny market slices is NOT how obscene profits are made.

Our fiction is not for everybody. I try to write things that have crossover appeal, like In the Shadow of the Dragon or Operation Hammerhead, but most of my fiction is gay. It's what I wish had been around in the seventies when I was the object of smear the queer, and I needed... all sorts of things, but most of all to know I wasn't alone.

We can do this. We earned the right by bleeding for it. Matthew Shepherd isn't the only kid who was killed because he was gay. He's just the only one you've heard about.  Soulless mega-corporations can not, nor are they welcome to try. They want to profit off our struggles and to them, I say no thanks and fuck you very much.

Their contributions to Pride month, virtue signaling and grandstanding are all self-serving bullshit intended to enhance their bottom line. Please pardon my Southern, but seeing them take careful aim and shooting themselves in the foot just tickles me to death.

 

PS- Dizney is a particular target of my wrath because I haven't forgotten or forgiven them for all the gay actors and Mousekateers (kids) who they blacklisted and ruined their careers.

Edited January 29 by JamesSavik

[drpaladin]

2 hours ago, drown said:

Oh stop it with your facts and reality. 😅 But interesting to know, thank you.

If I re-read a story a few months later, will it get another view? I'm always logged in so I would guess I only ever count once?

I am losing many people after chapter one. I couldn't care less, everyone who is commenting is very awesome :3

Every click is a view whether it's you, me, or whoever. Clicking to see a new comment is also a view. Chapter views can be deceptive.

[JLynch]

So, what’s an accurate gauge to measure by…total readers as well as comparing to other authors and other storie?

[Myr]

3 minutes ago, JLynch said:

So, what’s an accurate gauge to measure by…total readers as well as comparing to other authors and other storie?

Reactions. Each person can only do one and it must be a person. 

Reviews for complete stories. Same thing. 

Recommendations. Same real people, only once. 

[ReaderPaul]

24 minutes ago, JamesSavik said:

Our fiction is not for everybody. I try to write things that have crossover appeal, like In the Shadow of the Dragon or Operation Hammerhead, but most of my fiction is gay. It's what I wish had been around in the seventies when I was the object of smear the queer, and I needed... all sorts of things, but most of all to know I wasn't alone.

@JamesSavik, most of your stuff does have crossover appeal.  In the Shadow of the Dragon is one of the best stories I have ever read.  Operation Hammerhead is very good, but slightly harder to follow.  And I wish you would bring the other 16 or 17 Cadet Cruise stories here, as well and write more.  Hood's Revenge is a super excellent short story, as all of the "Get Into James Shorts" collection here on GA.

The chapter views and story views are interesting, but not the "end-all-and-be-all", as one of my relatives used to say.  On authors I like, I look at every new comment brought to my attention.  I also read a chapter more than once on authors such as yourself, James, or @Geron Kees, @Myr, @Backwoods Boy, and several others.

Reader taste varies.  We are fortunate that this site is available for those of us who love to read, and there are great authors here TO be read.

[JLynch]

How is a “Top Author” determined? Same with “Recommended?”

[Myr]

2 hours ago, JLynch said:

How is a “Top Author” determined? Same with “Recommended?”

This?

Nope.  Number of chapters in time period.

 

This?

No... that would be number of Recommendations in selected timeframe

[W_L]

44 minutes ago, Myr said:

This?

Nope.  Number of chapters in time period.

 

This?

No... that would be number of Recommendations in selected timeframe

Aye, it's been a while since I've made that top list. It's very hard to maintain a top author spot for your stories.

After my passion project is over in 26 weeks, I should probably write modern fiction again. Readership in some genres is rarer than others.

[Myr]

2 minutes ago, W_L said:

 Readership in some genres is rarer than others.

Yes.  One reason I'm promoting different genres in the genre deep dive.  Try new things... writers and readers both.

[Mark Arbour]

3 hours ago, JLynch said:

How is a “Top Author” determined? Same with “Recommended?”

A Top Author is the one recommended by the Bottom Author. 😃

[Ron]

7 minutes ago, Mark Arbour said:

A Top Author is the one recommended by the Bottom Author.

I do not remember seeing the button for either of these options. 

[W_L]

9 minutes ago, Mark Arbour said:

A Top Author is the one recommended by the Bottom Author. 😃

 

2 minutes ago, Ron said:

I do not remember seeing the button for either of these options. 

We need more versatile authors around here to satisfy ceiling-pushers and bottom-dwellers.

[Ron]

1 hour ago, W_L said:

We need more versatile authors

You know what they say about versatile authors?

Spoiler

They have yet to meet the right genre.