The readership is very small.

[Mikiesboy]

1 hour ago, Mancunian said:

Some of my work has been poorly written, this spoils a good story, but very few people have commented on this and when I read those stories it hurts because I now see how badly they were written. It is a learning curve for me and I am trying to improve, good helpful constructive criticism will help with that. I am also trying to improve the stories that I have already posted by revising and editing them, they may not be perfect but they will be better. I am an amateur who writes as a hobby for enjoyment, I am not a professional author. This applies to almost all of us who post stories here, so please remember that when you comment.

Exactly. Those with editors and beta readers get their feed back from them. I think we see 5 star reviews because the reader enjoyed the story. Lots of people read for the love of it and just want to say i really enjoyed that.

There are places and ways on GA to get the feed back an author may want. They can talk to other authors, they can use the tools on the Writer's club or they can say at the end of their chapter that criticism is welcome.

I've had authors approach me for an opinion. I am not the most excellent of writers and we all work to improve. My early work is proof that i've improved.  I too cringe when i read that old stuff, but it's my history and we all have to start somewhere.  I'm proud of where i've come from.

Keep writing my friend. It only gets better.

[Jdonley75]

<tosses two pennies on the table>

This probably isn't a popular take, but it's become my observation over time.

First off, views are meaningless and I've gotten to the point where when I look at it, I know all it is is an indicator of how many hits the page that contains a chapter of my story got which translates to ads for the site.  Beyond that, views are not an indicator of how good or not so good any given story on this site is.

Secondly, unless someone comes at me with a bachelors degree in English and Literature to critique what I write, they can kindly 🤬 off with their complaints.  This also applies to me.  I'm not an expert in writing stories or what makes a good story or not.  If I don't like something, I just don't say anything because I'm in no position to tell someone how to do what they enjoy doing.  I'm not here to impress anyone.  From day one, I agreed to do this with the expectation that if I get three people to read the whole thing, I'll take that as a success.  That I got more than 3 people is nothing less than a blessing and I try to make sure all of those who leave comments know I value them.  But I don't live or die by how many or how few people read and/or like it.  I'd like it if the lurkers actually gave a little more reaction, but I can't and wouldn't force them to, so I do my best to ignore it no matter how irritating it gets.

Finally, from what I've noticed, there is more activity on the authors clubs where everyone seems to hang out, which I don't get, but it's what they like doing, so okay.  Maybe they don't know what stories are available.  Maybe they just want to "chat" with people in the authors clubs and don't care.  More likely than not, some people have only a certain author or small number of authors they like to read and won't consider anyone else.  That's the job of the admins (or no ones) to get people interested in other stories.  The admins decide which stories get attention and which don't.  And there's nothing wrong with that.  It's their site, they can do what they want.

I also see a lot of other things on here, but I'm keeping those thoughts to myself.  Mostly because I don't really care enough to put it into words.  I'm just here to tell a story and that's it.  How many views I get or reactions or comments are just little hits of dopamine that are nice, but they don't pay my bills.  It means a lot more to me if someone takes something from the story and makes it a part of themselves.  And that's not something they need to share with me or the rest of the world.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt.  I noticed I was mentioned and I felt compelled to say something.

[Ron]

I have a suggestion. Going forward might authors suggest at the end of their story or each chapter something like this:

"If you like my story please feel free to comment. If you're not a member please consider joining Gay Authors, it's free."

It's not too long a blurb and it reminds those who are not members that membership is a no-cost option. Authors could even include the link page for joining up as I did.

 

[Mrsgnomie]

9 minutes ago, Ron said:

I have a suggestion. Going forward might authors suggest at the end of their story or each chapter something like this:

"If you like my story please feel free to comment. If you're not a member please consider joining Gay Authors, it's free."

It's not too long a blurb and it reminds those who are not members that membership is a no-cost option. Authors could even include the link page for joining up as I did.

 

 

I've done something similar to encourage lurkers to become members and also to encourage engagement. I've had some success. Everyone wants to be invited to the party. It doesn't guarantee they'll be active, but it's a step.  

[Mikiesboy]

21 minutes ago, Ron said:

I have a suggestion

That's a great idea, Ron!

[Mancunian]

58 minutes ago, Ron said:

I have a suggestion. Going forward might authors suggest at the end of their story or each chapter something like this:

"If you like my story please feel free to comment. If you're not a member please consider joining Gay Authors, it's free."

It's not too long a blurb and it reminds those who are not members that membership is a no-cost option. Authors could even include the link page for joining up as I did.

 

I like it, I will try to remember to add something like it in the future.

[TalonRider]

Something to consider is that during the summer time. Traffic to websites tends to slow down due to various reasons, like vacation and/or holiday travel may keep readership away for a period of time. 

[chris191070]

2 minutes ago, TalonRider said:

Something to consider is that during the summer time. Traffic to websites tends to slow down due to various reasons, like vacation and/or holiday travel may keep readership away for a period of time. 

Most definitely because of School Holidays in the UK, I'm alot busier at work. So I'm only visiting once a day.

[Mark Arbour]

On 7/29/2023 at 7:22 PM, Myr said:

I'm starting to feel like the old man on the rocker shaking his cane yelling at people to get off the lawn...

 

If the shoe fits.  😀

[Mark Arbour]

On 7/29/2023 at 1:47 AM, Hero said:

Taking a random look at published, publishing (ongoing) stories on the site, you can't help but reach the conclusion the number of readers is very small. The best an author might hope to achieve, is 1000 page views per chapter. 

Certainly, when you look at these numbers casually you see some large numbers, but look a little closer. A series author jdonley has written over 800,000 words in four books over several years and the number of readers is around 1000 page views per chapter per year. The numbers only look big over time. 

Take a well know author personality, Comicality, the numbers are ten times smaller and he has been writing online for over twenty years and writes about writing. I suppose if you add up all the numbers multiplied by the number of stories, you get some high figures, but divide them by chapters, by years, and it's miniscule! One book, on going, over ten years achieves 100 page views per chapter per year. 

Conclusion, the site online community is very small in terms of readership per author per book, what it achieves in site numbers overall is through the number of authors publishing as displayed on the front page. 100 page views per story chapter multiplied by 100, 200, or 1000 stories adds up, hence the site can support itself, advertising and premium membership. 

For the author, you need to be realistic, you may receive several chapter comments and a few (not very balanced for the most part) reviews, if you complete your story. You can have some contact with other authors and readers, which is not to be underestimated and can be valuable, but if you are thinking you will achieve any sort of real readership (as in a print addition from a publishing house) you are mistaken. 

In brief, being realistic, it is a lot of effort, hours of writing, a big investment, for very little return. Of course, nobody will tell you this and you can convince yourself you will get, or have, a large readership, but the numbers tell the real story.

You mention that the best an author on GA can hope to get is about 1000 views when posting a chapter.  I haven't closely tracked Comsie's numbers, but my own experience validates your hypothesis.  I'm writing two series right now: CAP and Bridgemont.  When I posted the latest chapter for the CAP story (The Gap), I got 1000 views during the first week.  When I publish a chapter in Bridgemont (Northern Exposure), I got 800. 

That being said, there are a lot of readers on GA who don't follow my stories, so that would suggest that there are many more than 1000 readers.  I think this is explained by remembering that there are varied interests on this site.  For me, I know that there are people who aren't interested in what I write, but that doesn't bother me at all, because I thrive on those who do read and comment.  To me, it's a big shared journey between me and my readers.  If they like the path I carve, they'll stay with me. 

 

[Mark Arbour]

On 8/2/2023 at 4:37 PM, Jdonley75 said:

  That's the job of the admins (or no ones) to get people interested in other stories.  The admins decide which stories get attention and which don't.

I think that you (and the admins) think they are much more powerful than they actually are.  😀  It would be interesting to see if, when they promote a story, how much it drives up readership numbers. 

[Mark Arbour]

On 7/30/2023 at 12:55 AM, Hero said:

In reply to anyone who asked the point of the thread, I was thinking that a larger audience is possible for any author addressing a wider audience and a wider audience really means encompassing the world at large where being gay is a minority. My thought was around expanding stories to include straight characters who play an important role, to have a gay theme, but set in a more realistic perspective, essentially thinking about attracting that wider audience and moving away from the gay sex in every chapter. My thought is that the gay storyline can be more powerfully stated when not every character is gay and secondary characters are developed. A few stories do this, but not too many.

This is a niche community.  What you're proposing is moving this site to a broader market, but there are a few huge problems with that.

1.  The site is called gayauthors for a reason.  In and of itself, that's a bit misleading, because not all authors on here are gay, but it basically connotes a site with stories about gay people.  Trying to write stories that cater to straight people defeats the purpose.

2.  There are other sites out there that do just what you're suggesting, and where gay readers are a minority.  So GA would move away from the niche it fills and dilute itself into a market where there are already competitors.

3.  There is nothing stopping an individual author from doing just what you suggest.  Maybe if an author did what you suggested, they could generate more readers and could ultimately drive more traffic to this site. 

4.   One of the beauties of this website is the fact that there is such a strong community.  I feel a very deep bond with my readers.  I would be pretty upset if this site completely changed directions, and everyone scattered as a result. 

[Krista]

I'm a little late to the party, but I also am a rather old member. I started in eFiction, saw the transition to Stories, and then another transition when it updated to a new system entirely. I still don't know anything about self-promoting, but I have some ideas as to why people may see lower than expected numbers of views.

Views to me aren't as important as far as it being an numbers thing, it isn't a tried and true indication of a sloughing off of readers based on content. There are a lot of factors at play that one may not be considering.

The rate a person updates their stories with new content is a big factor. You need to be consistent with that, I am by far one of the worst authors to read based on consistency. I am not consistently updating and writing, at all. People wait months to read the next chapter, and for some people - that is far too long of a wait. So I expect to lose readers, I hate to lose them as I do love engaging with people who want to discuss my writing, characters, and the like. I just don't have the time nor the energy to write on a consistent basis. I am also an author that struggles to stay motivated on a story, I get distracted by other themes.

The Genre has a lot to do with it as well. They aren't stagnant, there are shifts in what people tend to want to read. In my eFiction days, Romance, especially Modern Romance was extremely popular. All of the eFiction stories that made the top 10s, Most Popular lists were general fiction with a main theme of modern romance. The community has shifted away from those types of stories, although still extremely popular there has been a branching out to other genres, and some have risen to the challenge. For the better, mind you, but you have to realize that some themes are just more popular than others. 

If you're not actively engaging in the community yourself, you're doing yourself a disservice. I don't mean this as promoting your own work, but just generally being here. If your online presence isn't felt, you're not all that visible overall. If the Story Archive is the only place you're actively engaging with people, your draw will be limited to just those avid readers. You will remain rather unknown to the general community and unless you have stories that hit a ton of recommendations, reviews, etc, you will remain as such. If you're active within the community though, more people will see you and they will engage with you, if you're a pleasant person to be around. That may bleed out to your stories, but it isn't guaranteed to.  (The jury is still out on me, I think) I have in the past picked up stories from people that I've found interesting within the community, that I wouldn't have actively sought out otherwise.

If you're not engaging with your readers in the Archive at all either, you may lose readers. Don't leave comments on read, indicate that you've read their comments. Engage with the readers who leave them. Thank them for their contributions. Try not to just sweep their comment aside with a general, "thanks," and nothing else - even though I know I'm guilty of that myself at times. If the reader took the time to read and comment the very least you can do is respond. You may not lose views/readers, but you will most definitely lose comments/reviews. Don't force a reader to just "Like" and move on, because you cannot be bothered or feel you don't need to give them something back. 

Giving and Receiving criticism is a learned experience. No one comes out of the gate being good at it. It took me months to actually listen to my editors in my early writing. I was young, and I bristled up rather awfully when someone told me anything negative about my writing. My first story sucked, I still have it posted, but it is garbage. I didn't listen and it remained as such. I didn't grow much at all in my Second story either, so me bristling up and not being open to criticism stifled me, and looking back I've realized just how detrimental that was. Habits are hard to break when you allow yourself to stay the course, even though it ends up being the wrong one entirely. Still yet, I am rather critical of negative reviews, or comments. Especially if I feel the content of the comment or review, lacked any critical assessment. Most people will happily digest ALL positive responses though, but the weight of them shouldn't be tipped too heavily in their favor, look for true constructive criticism too. Like I said, learning, we all have to learn to accept true critical assessment and we have to learn to overcome whining/complaints, and the overall negative things people may say that doesn't have a lot of true merit. If you're an author and your response to critical assessments that has actual constructive criticism is poor or defensive - you've lost an asset. You may think you're better off, but glowing comments that overlooks negative impacting things in your writing sets you up for failure and you never reach your true potential.

Knowing the difference also takes time. Learning how to give constructive criticism also takes time. The method Myr discussed about doing so privately, is good. But, delivery in the telling also has to be considered. People tend to listen if the tone isn't biting with every word. I believe @Cia has mentioned the sandwiching method. Of praise, critical assessment, and ending with encouragement. You can be critical and kind all at once, you don't have to tear something apart to get your point across. 

I personally care about readers and want them to stay, but I am also an author that knows what she likes. I will write the stories I want to share. I know my stories are flawed, and aren't to the taste of everyone. This is a hobby for me, nothing more. I have thought about stopping numerous times. I've asked privately in the past for my stories and my rank as signature author here to be removed. Luckily, I was talked out of it. I'm over a million words into this thing, and I still generally like it here, being here for as long as I have. For a lot of people, this is just their place to be when it comes to this sort of hobby. I personally would like to see this place grow - and believe me, this community has had quite a few growth spurts. But, I wouldn't want to see it grow just for the sake of growing, because it gave up on its true purpose. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Krista

[ReaderPaul]

@Krista -- Very well thought out.  

Readers read what types of things they wish to read, as well.  As you pointed out, authors who interact with readers in the comments and forums are more interesting -- and sometimes more fun -- than those who publicly bristle at almost everything.

 

[Mark Arbour]

19 minutes ago, Krista said:

The rate a person updates their stories with new content is a big factor. You need to be consistent with that, I am by far one of the worst authors to read based on consistency. I am not consistently updating and writing, at all. People wait months to read the next chapter, and for some people - that is far too long of a wait. So I expect to lose readers, I hate to lose them as I do love engaging with people who want to discuss my writing, characters, and the like. I just don't have the time nor the energy to write on a consistent basis. I am also an author that struggles to stay motivated on a story, I get distracted by other themes.

 

Thank you so much for bringing this up!  I think it's a huge factor in building and maintaining a readership base, and one that isn't mentioned all that much (or at least I missed it).  In one sense, not publishing a chapter for a long time is a bit like ghosting someone.  When you decide to re-materialize, they may have moved on. 

[lawfulneutralmage]

One of the reasons why I do not read In Progress stories... 

[Mikiesboy]

5 hours ago, lawfulneutralmage said:

One of the reasons why I do not read In Progress stories... 

And that's another reason to make sure you have finished a story before you start posting it.  Make sure it is well and truly done first.

 

11 hours ago, Krista said:

If you're an author and your response to critical assessments that has actual constructive criticism is poor or defensive - you've lost an asset. You may think you're better off, but glowing comments that overlooks negative impacting things in your writing sets you up for failure and you never reach your true potential.

You are so right about this.  i still bristle when i hear things i don't like, but i have learned not to react to it. i have learned to step back and leave it float around in my brain for awhile, think about it and try to see what the person was trying to tell me. i may ask questions about it. Not reacting lets me see and learn.

Constructive criticism and coaching can help you, if you let it.

[Mark Arbour]

8 hours ago, Mikiesboy said:

And that's another reason to make sure you have finished a story before you start posting it.  Make sure it is well and truly done first.

Mine never are, primarily because reader comments can help guide the story. 

[Krista]

53 minutes ago, Mark Arbour said:

Mine never are, primarily because reader comments can help guide the story. 

Samesies.  

 

Although, you 'have' to be consistent in doing it this way, which I am not. lol. But I like to know what people are thinking as they read it, and as I write it. As a guide, but also to know how my major plot points are received. 

[Mrsgnomie]

I only posts when the story is complete because I know it can take me a year to finish it, and there have been stories I've started and abandoned because I could not get it together in my head. As a reader, getting into a story and never having a resolution is my nightmare. There is a story on this site that I fell in love with, and the author ghosted. I think of it often. #trustissues

I will edit what I've already have written if reader feedback brings up good points that I know will improve the story, which they do a lot because they are phenomenal beta readers. My current story is 95% finish, this allows me to write the ending in live time after getting feedback, without the dread of a complete re-write of the last 2-3 chapters.

I think my reader engagement is what it is because I post regularly and readers know we will go from start to finish together. There is a definite trust built.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Mrsgnomie

[Gary L]

In such esteemed company, I’m not sure whether  I should comment. However, here goes.

Despite my promises to dear Carlos H, I still have not put pen to paper and so I write only as a reader who found this site around 2015 (though joined up later). And to totally honest, I am also one of the major culprits of giving 5* reviews.  

As has been said repeatedly, this is a community and one in which I like to participate actively. Others not so.  Although I teach English as a second language, I don’t see it as my role to point out grammar issues, although funny typos are fair game, no? So what is my “role” as a GA member and reader?  Firstly, I’m here to relax and enjoy good stories, and secondly, to risk going outside of my comfort zone and test out genres that, who knows, I might even like.  As part of the deal, as it were, I also like to respond to the requests made so often for feedback. It is clear that many of my favourite writers are really busy people with heavy workloads, and hey, my mum taught me to be polite and so I try to say thank you in my stilted Brit way. Joking with a number of you here has not only been fun but helped a lot during long periods off work. And I’m sure many other readers feel the same.  I also respect those authors who don’t have the time or inclination to engage in weekly fun debates.

finally, why do I almost always give 5* for the 140 or so reviews I have written.  Firstly, I do it because I truly enjoyed the story, and appreciate the time and effort which these non-full time authors have put it.  I always try to pick out a key reason rather putting a resumen of the story. And finally, if I say read it, I genuinely mean it.  In a small way this how I try to promote readership, especially for less-known and/or new authors.

I’ve read this topic with huge interest, a number of you are really special to me, others I still have to get to know, so get ready for my feedback!

And now I have to get back to writing an article on the advantages of sending your kids to my school.  Hey that probably counts as fiction, no?  Thanks everyone.  Virtual hugs, kisses, bows, formal handshake, man hug (thanks Mark A) etc.

Gary

[Mark Arbour]

23 hours ago, Mrsgnomie said:

I only posts when the story is complete because I know it can take me a year to finish it, and there have been stories I've started and abandoned because I could not get it together in my head. As a reader, getting into a story and never having a resolution is my nightmare. There is a story on this site that I fell in love with, and the author ghosted. I think of it often. #trustissues

I will edit what I've already have written if reader feedback brings up good points that I know will improve the story, which they do a lot because they are phenomenal beta readers. My current story is 95% finish, this allows me to write the ending in live time after getting feedback, without the dread of a complete re-write of the last 2-3 chapters.

I think my reader engagement is what it is because I post regularly and readers know we will go from start to finish together. There is a definite trust built.

That's a really credible approach.  I love how you want to make sure you don't leave your own readers in a lurch like you were. 

19 hours ago, Gary L said:

In such esteemed company, I’m not sure whether  I should comment. However, here goes.

Despite my promises to dear Carlos H, I still have not put pen to paper and so I write only as a reader who found this site around 2015 (though joined up later). And to totally honest, I am also one of the major culprits of giving 5* reviews.  

As has been said repeatedly, this is a community and one in which I like to participate actively. Others not so.  Although I teach English as a second language, I don’t see it as my role to point out grammar issues, although funny typos are fair game, no? So what is my “role” as a GA member and reader?  Firstly, I’m here to relax and enjoy good stories, and secondly, to risk going outside of my comfort zone and test out genres that, who knows, I might even like.  As part of the deal, as it were, I also like to respond to the requests made so often for feedback. It is clear that many of my favourite writers are really busy people with heavy workloads, and hey, my mum taught me to be polite and so I try to say thank you in my stilted Brit way. Joking with a number of you here has not only been fun but helped a lot during long periods off work. And I’m sure many other readers feel the same.  I also respect those authors who don’t have the time or inclination to engage in weekly fun debates.

finally, why do I almost always give 5* for the 140 or so reviews I have written.  Firstly, I do it because I truly enjoyed the story, and appreciate the time and effort which these non-full time authors have put it.  I always try to pick out a key reason rather putting a resumen of the story. And finally, if I say read it, I genuinely mean it.  In a small way this how I try to promote readership, especially for less-known and/or new authors.

I’ve read this topic with huge interest, a number of you are really special to me, others I still have to get to know, so get ready for my feedback!

And now I have to get back to writing an article on the advantages of sending your kids to my school.  Hey that probably counts as fiction, no?  Thanks everyone.  Virtual hugs, kisses, bows, formal handshake, man hug (thanks Mark A) etc.

Gary

What a wonderful post.  Thank you so much for bringing a reader's point of view to the discussion. 

I think that reviewers should, in general, be generous.  This is a hobby for me, and probably for the other authors here.  Bad reviews and excessive criticism can be crushing, especially if the author is just starting out.  It's not like your review is for the NY Times.  That being said, constructive criticism is vital for growth, and as an author, you have to develop a bit of a thick skin. 

[Krista]

19 hours ago, Gary L said:

I’ve read this topic with huge interest, a number of you are really special to me, others I still have to get to know, so get ready for my feedback!

And now I have to get back to writing an article on the advantages of sending your kids to my school.  Hey that probably counts as fiction, no?  Thanks everyone.  Virtual hugs, kisses, bows, formal handshake, man hug (thanks Mark A) etc.

Gary

Edited the quote to shorten it:

You're an A++ reader Gary.  And your entire post was wonderful. 

[Gary L]

2 hours ago, Krista said:

Edited the quote to shorten it:

You're an A++ reader Gary.  And your entire post was wonderful. 

Krista, what a lovely comment to wake up to in the morning here in steamy 100°F Valencia.   Thank you so much. Xx 🤗

[Gary L]

2 hours ago, Mark Arbour said:

That's a really credible approach.  I love how you want to make sure you don't leave your own readers in a lurch like you were. 

What a wonderful post.  Thank you so much for bringing a reader's point of view to the discussion. 

I think that reviewers should, in general, be generous.  This is a hobby for me, and probably for the other authors here.  Bad reviews and excessive criticism can be crushing, especially if the author is just starting out.  It's not like your review is for the NY Times.  That being said, constructive criticism is vital for growth, and as an author, you have to develop a bit of a thick skin. 

Many thanks for your kind words, Mark.  I think there is a not disimular parallel with language teaching and assessment. 80% of my work is coaching Spanish kids to sit for ever more difficult Cambridge (uk) English as a second language. 20% of final grading is for the writing component.  In official languages here, you lose 0.15 (out of 10) for every tiny error up to a penalty of 15% of final grade.  It’s a really crushing system of reviewing work - no allowance for dislexia, either.  Whereas in foreign language grading the issue of errors is seen in the context of can I understand what the person is trying to say even if it isn’t perfect.  As a teacher I’ve finally realised that the second approach is so much more constructive and facilitates a desire to perfect language errors.   So, as a reader if I can be honest and positive I try to say so, as others do and have done since long before I joined, if I don’t like the story as a question of taste, or because it isn’t well-written, I say nothing and hope the next attempt is better.

warm regards and thanks for such amazing stories, Gary