Translation Trashbin - 15. David und Jonathan (1)

Loved the translation AC. It's a beautiful poem.

22 minutes ago, BHopper2 said:

Loved the translation AC. It's a beautiful poem.

Thanks for reading and commenting, A! I really appreciate it.

This poem reminds me why it is important to read scripture carefully, in context, and with an open heart. And it tells me how much we miss when we fail to understand the centrality of love we find there. 

Thank you very much for this. 

Isn't it everything?  Love? What are we without it? And so often we are devoid of it. Why? Because we reach, and grasp for what isn't important. When all I need to get me through any hardship is your hand.

A beautiful translation. 

On 7/21/2018 at 7:55 PM, MichaelS36 said:

Isn't it everything?  Love? What are we without it? And so often we are devoid of it. Why? Because we reach, and grasp for what isn't important. When all I need to get me through any hardship is your hand.

 

A beautiful translation. 

This is a beautifully poetic response, and I really appreciate it. You have also spoken very true, Mike. 

Else as a poet was fascinated by the tenderness of men in love and she often wrote about it (lucky us). Thanks for reading and commenting  

On 7/21/2018 at 7:23 PM, Parker Owens said:

This poem reminds me why it is important to read scripture carefully, in context, and with an open heart. And it tells me how much we miss when we fail to understand the centrality of love we find there. 

 

Thank you very much for this. 

 

You've read my sacred motet about David and Jonathan, and it's "sacred" because every word in it is direct from the bible. This parting scene was a very special moment, as Samuel says it was then God blessed their union and promised their joined households would rule the Jewish people. This union -- think of it as one triangle for David and one for Jonathan -- is the origin of the Star of David symbol, which Else speaks about often in her poetry. 

Thanks for reading and commenting, Parker. Muah 

5 minutes ago, AC Benus said:

This a a beautifully poetic response, and I really appreciate it. You have also spoken very true, Mike. 

 

Else as a poet was fascinated by the tenderness of men in love and she often wrote about it (lucky us). Thanks for reading and commenting  

You also write about it. Because we are tender, we do feel deeply contrary to popular belief, and I'm tired, AC. So very very tired of being told that we are are not. That we are dicks capable only of the basest of feeling and desire.

I just finished reading in a forum, by a real gay man, because apparently I am not, that to be gay, I had better get a gay gym membership. Crap!

This poem is beautiful. ..perhaps some more on here should read it! 

On 7/21/2018 at 8:26 PM, MichaelS36 said:

You also write about it. Because we are tender, we do feel deeply contrary to popular belief, and I'm tired, AC. So very very tired of being told that we are are not. That we are dicks capable only of the basest of feeling and desire.

I just finished reading in a forum, by a real gay man, because apparently I am not, that to be gay, I had better get a gay gym membership. Crap!

 

This poem is beautiful. ..perhaps some more on here should read it! 

 

I shouldn't speak out of turn, but in my opinion, Gay men who hold little opinions of what 'gays' are like are just aping the discrimination they were exposed to from broader society. Not to stand behind each other and say this or that is a label while thinking of themselves as superior to 'the gays' is beyond messed up. 

Gay people fought all around the world for the right these politically ignorants enjoy not to stand up proudly and be counted as one of them. For shame, says I  But I will keep my nose out of their doings for my own sanity. 

Thanks again, Mike. 

This is really stunning - and I deeply admire your translation skills.

But I'm curious: Why would you call your collection "Translation Trashbin"???

And as it's called "David and Jonathan (1)", I suppose there will be a part (2)?

On 7/25/2018 at 12:33 AM, Zenobia said:

This is really stunning - and I deeply admire your translation skills.

But I'm curious: Why would you call your collection "Translation Trashbin"???

 

And as it's called "David and Jonathan (1)", I suppose there will be a part (2)?

Lasker-Schüler's David und Jonathan (2) is a much more elaborate poem, but it focuses on the same scene as this one. I was going to post them together, but it's nicer when the original poem gets some breathing room. The second one overpowers it in a way.

As for why Trashbin, it's just that with translations, they never seem definitive (at least to me). Each time a really good original poem is considered, subtle nuances can come to the fore. It's one of the joys of reading any poem, I guess. But I never see my translations as being set in stone. For example, take my attempts at  "Il pleure dans mon cœur." One translation I did long ago seemed lacking when I reviewed it recently, and that resulted in two more attempts at doing it in English. Arguably, the one where I'm least faithful to the original is the one that best captures the soul of the poem. So, it's always tricky.

One reader suggested in a comment that recycle bin might be more appropriate, but your earlier praise of treasure chest suits my tastes too

Thank you, Zenobia!

28 minutes ago, AC Benus said:

As for why Trashbin, it's just that with translations, they never seem definitive (at least to me). Each time a really good original poem is considered, subtle nuances can come to the fore. It's one of the joys of reading any poem, I guess. But I never see my translations as being set in stone. For example, take my attempts at  "Il pleure dans mon cœur." One translation I did long ago seemed lacking when I reviewed it recently, and that resulted in two more attempts at doing it in English. Arguably, the one where I'm least faithful to the original is the one that best captures the soul of the poem. So, it's always tricky.

 

One reader suggested in a comment that recycle bin might be more appropriate, but your earlier praise of treasure chest suits my tastes too

   

Thank you, Zenobia!

I see... I guess one should even add that no translation should ever be set in stone because the original will always stay just as it is. That's why it's important to learn languages (or at least to understand that it's important), and each new era in history generates people who bring other nuances of a text to the fore, depending on where they are coming from.

I still think Trashbin sounds a bit harsh but I understand what you're saying.

It's a question of balance, I guess, and I remember a yoga lesson where I asked the teacher to show some easy balance asanas; he said that if they were easy to do, they wouldn't be balance asanas anymore. So perhaps any poem requires an act of balance from the reader (which nuance is dominating/the most important?, what is the main message/purpose of the poem?, and many other questions), and all the more so from the translator of a poem because he has to find a balance between form and content

(A yoga emoji would definitely be nice, hm, and is now a reaction to my thought of a yoga emoji...)

On 7/22/2018 at 12:26 AM, AC Benus said:

I shouldn't speak out of turn, but in my opinion, Gay men who hold little opinions of what 'gays' are like are just aping the discrimination they were exposed to from broader society. Not to stand behind each other and say this or that is a label while thinking of themselves as superior to 'the gays' is beyond messed up. 

 

Gay men and women fought all around the world for the right these politically ignorants enjoy not to stand up proudly and be counted as one of them. For shame, says I  But I will keep my nose out of their doings for my own sanity. 

 

Thanks again, Mike. 

 

 

I understand. It frustrates me, as we of all people should be accepting of our choices and uniqueness.