Translation Trashbin - 21. Oden an meinen Freund Behrisch

The first one is just odd.  The other two are wonderful. I especially like the lynx-like stare and the gripping paws... Wonderful stuff!!  Thanks for doing these, AC xo

On 1/19/2019 at 5:27 PM, Mikiesboy said:

The first one is just odd.  The other two are wonderful. I especially like the lynx-like stare and the gripping paws... Wonderful stuff!!  Thanks for doing these, AC xo

Yes, more like Lewis Carroll territory than anything else, but it's all meaningful to the two young men involved. The first, I agree, is the most distant, but the tenderness and open way he proceeds is pretty amazing. I'm coming to admire the artist's form; make initial statement that's fairly simple; develop and be as image-packed as possible; and then end with an almost unbelievably simple statement. The image at the end of these three poems that Goethe won't be free until his last hour on Earth is very love-struck in my opinion. 

Thanks for reading and commenting ❤️ 

Dear AC, you made three wonderful translation. Each of special in its own way. But before I explain, why I personally think, that the first one is the most outstanding, let me start my argumentation with the second one.

The second one shows a young man in pain, he shows this in very strong words, uses metaphors to the extreme. And he also starts, to weave compassion into the stanzas, that he has for his friend, he admires so much.

Also, he starts to name his experiences and feelings unhidden.

In German there are a lot of undertones in the poem. The author gives the reader the possibility of reading it in different ways. I was taught, that every poem or play or book gives you something else in different phases of life. This poem is for me a great example, because I can read it with my grown up mind, but it also demands of me to go back and read with my 19 year old mind and both possibilities hold a big value.

And the magnificence of your translation is, that you transport this perfectly in my eyes. Really amazing work!

The third poem is the most open of the three, Goethe does tell very directly, what he feels and what his thoughts are and every time I read it, it touches my heart. And again, your translation evokes exactly the same feelings and provides the conclusion so openly: Sometimes the only way to love someone is to let him or her go.

Your translation is more than just giving the meaning of the words. To me it reads, as if you have deep insight in what Goethe wanted to say and therefor you can bring it to us in this amazingly intense way in English. Wonderful.

So looking from the third openly spoken back to the second, the second seems to be some kind of transitory state between the first and the third as well. This explains itself completly by looking on the first, which uses the Metaphor of the tree to transport a message, that Goethe obviously could not speak out loud when starting writing those odes.

You already know, that I think, Goethe means himself with the metaphor of the tree and Behrisch is the gardener. Looking from this perspective on the poem, it is a plea from a desperate young man, knowing the circumstances, which he has to live in, are determined to harm his mind, so that he can not spread his branches/thoughts to the sky. Still, he is in armor, fighting influences, but the friend (/mentor/educator) should take him please, please out of there and not leave him alone. This poem seems to be an entrance to the second and third. Maybe a first step to come out to himself and his friend?

And your translation is outstanding, because you managed to fight through the really challenging German grammar, hidden subjects and personal pronoun in all their German grammatical forms, the pictures, the strangeness with an open mind to the question why Goethe wrote this nature observation. Much later in life Goethe said, ever question explains itself by observing nature. And in your translation you give the reader the possibility to walk that path, reading Goethe as an observer of nature and drawing own conclusion observing. What could be more outstanding in a translation than to cover essence of a poet.

Quod erat demonstrandum. Bravo!

L.

Simply wonderful, AC. I stand in awe of your ability with these foreign language (to me) poems. Wonderful. 

On 1/20/2019 at 2:38 AM, Lyssa said:

Dear AC, you made three wonderful translation. Each of special in its own way. But before I explain, why I personally think, that the first one is the most outstanding, let me start my argumentation with the second one.

 

The second one shows a young man in pain, he shows this in very strong words, uses metaphors to the extreme. And he also starts, to weave compassion into the stanzas, that he has for his friend, he admires so much.

Also, he starts to name his experiences and feelings unhidden.

 

In German there are a lot of undertones in the poem. The author gives the reader the possibility of reading it in different ways. I was taught, that every poem or play or book gives you something else in different phases of life. This poem is for me a great example, because I can read it with my grown up mind, but it also demands of me to go back and read with my 19 year old mind and both possibilities hold a big value.

And the magnificence of your translation is, that you transport this perfectly in my eyes. Really amazing work!

 

The third poem is the most open of the three, Goethe does tell very directly, what he feels and what his thoughts are and every time I read it, it touches my heart. And again, your translation evokes exactly the same feelings and provides the conclusion so openly: Sometimes the only way to love someone is to let him or her go.

Your translation is more than just giving the meaning of the words. To me it reads, as if you have deep insight in what Goethe wanted to say and therefor you can bring it to us in this amazingly intense way in English. Wonderful.

 

So looking from the third openly spoken back to the second, the second seems to be some kind of transitory state between the first and the third as well. This explains itself completly by looking on the first, which uses the Metaphor of the tree to transport a message, that Goethe obviously could not speak out loud when starting writing those odes.

You already know, that I think, Goethe means himself with the metaphor of the tree and Behrisch is the gardener. Looking from this perspective on the poem, it is a plea from a desperate young man, knowing the circumstances, which he has to live in, are determined to harm his mind, so that he can not spread his branches/thoughts to the sky. Still, he is in armor, fighting influences, but the friend (/mentor/educator) should take him please, please out of there and not leave him alone. This poem seems to be an entrance to the second and third. Maybe a first step to come out to himself and his friend?

And your translation is outstanding, because you managed to fight through the really challenging German grammar, hidden subjects and personal pronoun in all their German grammatical forms, the pictures, the strangeness with an open mind to the question why Goethe wrote this nature observation. Much later in life Goethe said, ever question explains itself by observing nature. And in your translation you give the reader the possibility to walk that path, reading Goethe as an observer of nature and drawing own conclusion observing. What could be more outstanding in a translation than to cover essence of a poet.

Quod erat demonstrandum. Bravo!

 

L.

In the Introduction to my poetry writing book I include a quote. Reading -- feasting, really! -- on your rich comments here puts me in mind of it. 

“Genuine poetry can communicate before it is understood.”

T. S. Eliot

That seems right somehow, that the spirit of a piece can whisper content before or deeper than the eyes reading the words can see. I don't think I would ever attempt to do a translated version of a work that does not speak to me, although exactly how or why it does is a bit of a mystery to me. 

On 1/20/2019 at 2:38 AM, Lyssa said:

Dear AC, you made three wonderful translation. Each of special in its own way. But before I explain, why I personally think, that the first one is the most outstanding, let me start my argumentation with the second one.

 

The second one shows a young man in pain, he shows this in very strong words, uses metaphors to the extreme. And he also starts, to weave compassion into the stanzas, that he has for his friend, he admires so much.

Also, he starts to name his experiences and feelings unhidden.

 

In German there are a lot of undertones in the poem. The author gives the reader the possibility of reading it in different ways. I was taught, that every poem or play or book gives you something else in different phases of life. This poem is for me a great example, because I can read it with my grown up mind, but it also demands of me to go back and read with my 19 year old mind and both possibilities hold a big value.

And the magnificence of your translation is, that you transport this perfectly in my eyes. Really amazing work!

 

The third poem is the most open of the three, Goethe does tell very directly, what he feels and what his thoughts are and every time I read it, it touches my heart. And again, your translation evokes exactly the same feelings and provides the conclusion so openly: Sometimes the only way to love someone is to let him or her go.

Your translation is more than just giving the meaning of the words. To me it reads, as if you have deep insight in what Goethe wanted to say and therefor you can bring it to us in this amazingly intense way in English. Wonderful.

 

So looking from the third openly spoken back to the second, the second seems to be some kind of transitory state between the first and the third as well. This explains itself completly by looking on the first, which uses the Metaphor of the tree to transport a message, that Goethe obviously could not speak out loud when starting writing those odes.

You already know, that I think, Goethe means himself with the metaphor of the tree and Behrisch is the gardener. Looking from this perspective on the poem, it is a plea from a desperate young man, knowing the circumstances, which he has to live in, are determined to harm his mind, so that he can not spread his branches/thoughts to the sky. Still, he is in armor, fighting influences, but the friend (/mentor/educator) should take him please, please out of there and not leave him alone. This poem seems to be an entrance to the second and third. Maybe a first step to come out to himself and his friend?

And your translation is outstanding, because you managed to fight through the really challenging German grammar, hidden subjects and personal pronoun in all their German grammatical forms, the pictures, the strangeness with an open mind to the question why Goethe wrote this nature observation. Much later in life Goethe said, ever question explains itself by observing nature. And in your translation you give the reader the possibility to walk that path, reading Goethe as an observer of nature and drawing own conclusion observing. What could be more outstanding in a translation than to cover essence of a poet.

Quod erat demonstrandum. Bravo!

 

L.

I agree with your thoughts that the three poems represent a progression. The first is the most emotionally remote, while the third is almost painfully bare. Do the poet's wild allusions reveal or mask his true sentiments? I don't know, but some of them can lead to a feeling that he "must be kidding." However, I think you are absolutely right to look at these poems with our own 19-year-old selves. It's an age when indeed things are felt very deeply, and for a poet, the age when words are called up to both cover up and expose simultaneously. At least, I know it was that way for me, and my posted poetry on GA from that time in my life provides ample proof

I encountered two stanzas from the third Ode first and made a translated version for a Haibun, but I knew I'd have to come back and tackle all three in their full. It was a challenge, mostly to wade through the excesses of the first poem, but I'm blessed to have your assistance. You are patient and kind, and let my little poetic foot-stampings pass un-commented upon. You are a wonderful teacher. Muah   

On 1/20/2019 at 8:40 AM, MichaelS36 said:

Simply wonderful, AC. I stand in awe of your ability with these foreign language (to me) poems. Wonderful. 

Thank you for reading these, Mike. I love to learn, and when it comes to LGBT matters outside our English-speaking culture, there are tons and tons to absorb.

Thanks again!