Who do you think died?

[AFriendlyFace]

Hi everyone!

 

Ok, let's see if we can figure this out before New Year's! LOL let's face it we're going to be talking about it anyway!

 

SO who do you guys think died?

 

Here's the evidence I see for each person:

Chase:

 

He may be the one because:

 

-It clearly looks like Steve set him up and has been planning to for sometime. In fact way back in chapter 17 when I first read about his desire to take them rock climbing I was concerned he'd try something on Chase or Brandon.

 

-He was actually dangling off the cliff when last we saw him.

 

-He just had sex/deepening of his and Brandon's relationship. This makes for more creative drama, it completes a little bit of previously unfinished business, and - as anyone who's seen Scream 1 can tell you - having sex for the first time in a movie/story/etc. is a quick way to get yourself off-ed.

 

-He may be Helen's 'favorite'. Chase has also given her some grief and if I had had to guess who Helen's favourite was prior to this chapter I'd have picked Chase.

 

He's not the one because:

 

-He's too central a character.

 

-It's too 'obvious'.

 

-The band couldn't continue without him. It's possible/probable that the band can't continue with the loss of any of the four, but Brandon and Chase seem the most irreplaceable - musically speaking that is - in my estimation. It seems to me that it would be easier to replace a guitarist or bassist or even have the other pick up the slack themselves. Of course that comes from someone without much musical knowledge.

 

Eric:

 

He may be the one because:

 

-Most people, including myself (initially) assumed it was him.

 

-Helen's remark about him dying young now looks prophetic

 

-Steve also would have had a motive to kill him at the point in which the chapter cut off.

 

-Barbra's remark about "in spite of everything she thought he was Helen's favourite brother" definitely looks like indicting him. Prior to the "in spite of everything" remark I thought Chase was Helen's favourite, but if we take "in spite of everything" into consideration it does look more like Eric.

 

He's not the one because:

 

-Logistically speaking he actually seems like the safest of the brothers. Unless Steve is going to be blatantly homicidal - and in front of Wilde no less - Eric seems pretty safe up there. Plus I think Wilde's a good guy and would try to stop Steve.

 

-He may also be "too obvious" considering that the majority initially assumed it was him.

 

-He's also a fairly central brother and I get the feeling that CJ really enjoys writing for him.

 

Jon (He's my pick):

It's him because:

 

-He tried to catch Chase. What I'm thinking happened is that if Steve did try to set up Chase (which I could go either way on thinking), Jon rushed over to try to catch him/help him and broke Chase's fall with his neck.

 

-He could be Helen's favourite. He also gave Helen a lot of grief, and as the oldest, and the one she probably interacted with the most, professionally speaking, I think there's a good chance he's the 'favorite'.

 

-He seems like the most expendable. As I said he seems more expendable than Chase musically speaking. He also seems like the most expendable of the three brothers in terms of story development and plot, and I suspect he's not as much fun to write for as Chase and Eric.

 

He's not the one because:

 

-Chase and Eric do seem more 'set up' to be the victim in this case.

 

(that's all I got. I really think if someone died it was him!)

 

 

So that's my evaluation of the odds for the three brothers. The way I see it that white car is almost certainly the paparazzi, and they were on the scene and did report it before Helen found out. It's possible that someone else died and they misreported it however.

 

It could be Brandon if like Jon he tried to catch Chase, but it probably isn't because he's the most central character.

 

It could be Steve if he and Eric did get into a confrontation and he fell off the edge. This very well could have happened because Chase had just fallen (and only been hurt) and Eric was thus mad, or because of what Steve overheard Eric and Wilde discussing (in which case it's still possible that he's 'shaken up' - or acting like it - because Chase fell and hurt himself).

 

It could be Wilde if a similar scenario as described directly above occurred and Wilde attempted to intervene.

 

It could be Zeke if Chase fell on him OR if Chase started to fall and thus he got horrible tangled up in the equipment trying to save him.

 

It may have been no one, and they're either purposely perpetrating a hoax, or the paparazzi misreported the events of the accident.

 

SO what do you guys think?

 

-Kevin

Edited December 26, 2007 by AFriendlyFace

[wildone]

Wow, lots of good arguments on many fronts. But I will still have to go with Steve, as I stated here

 

But that is just my opinion .

 

Thanks for the poll Kevin .

 

Steve

[jkeeling]

I'm going with no one in hopes it was a hoax or misreport.

[C James]

Great analysis Kevin!

 

I'll even give a minor spoiler (and hope the Echidna doesn't catch me!) and say that one of your vote options is correct.

 

However, that does not preclude the possibility of more than one demise.

[Ieshwar]

CJ never said that one of times died. You guys might remember FTL where he wrote about firing at Steve's head and blood slpattering. But... Steve was alive!

 

But if someone had to die, I would say Eric.

 

Ieshwar

[TalonRider]

The way I see it, it could come down to one of four, Eric, Chase, Steve, or Wilde.

 

Chase falling since it would appear that he's been set up.

 

Wilde jumps up and attacks Eric, they fight and one falls over the cliff.

 

Steve attacks Eric and the same thing happens.

 

There's also the possibility that the white van that followed them was some was Lump and/or the former road manager with a long range rifle and shot one of the guys that was still on the ground, or climbing up the rock face.

 

Jan

[Benji]

The way I see it, it could come down to one of four, Eric, Chase, Steve, or Wilde.

 

Chase falling since it would appear that he's been set up.

 

Wilde jumps up and attacks Eric, they fight and one falls over the cliff.

 

Steve attacks Eric and the same thing happens.

 

There's also the possibility that the white van that followed them was some was Lump and/or the former road manager with a long range rifle and shot one of the guys that was still on the ground, or climbing up the rock face.

 

Jan

 

 

...............Well, Lump has been MIA for quite a while, I vote for "no one"

[Graeme]

The way I see it, it could come down to one of four, Eric, Chase, Steve, or Wilde.

I hate to disagree, but the story clearly indicates it's one of the Carlisle brothers:

 

Barbra hesitated to say the name, knowing what the loss of who, she thought, was in spite of everything likely Helen

[FrenchCanadian]

I realized that I hadn't voted yet, oups.

 

my minds really wants to be "no one".

 

I still have some difficulties seeing how CJ would make it to work so that the tour, and possibly the band still lives on if one of the brother were to die.

 

the second best would be one of the Shadows trio, with any of them, the title 'the show must go on' could still work, as there would be other tour dates and would need to find an opening act.

[C James]

I realized that I hadn't voted yet, oups.

 

my minds really wants to be "no one".

 

I still have some difficulties seeing how CJ would make it to work so that the tour, and possibly the band still lives on if one of the brother were to die.

 

the second best would be one of the Shadows trio, with any of them, the title 'the show must go on' could still work, as there would be other tour dates and would need to find an opening act.

 

Apropos of nothing (in other words, this has nothing to do with whether or not, or who, died) but tours have continued after the loss of a band member. I recall Metallica once had an accident that put a guitarist (I think) out of commission during a tour, and one of the roadies got the gig for a few concerts. I also recall one case (can't recall who) where a drummer (I think?) from the opening act ended up playing for both his band and the headliner for several concerts after either a death or serious injury on tour.

 

CJ (who is just trying to be helpful )

 

Edit to add: Seriously, please don't take anything I say here or elsewhere to indicate what has or hasn't happened. I won't give spoilers or real hints other than in the chapters themselves.

[jkeeling]

Apropos of nothing (in other words, this has nothing to do with whether or not, or who, died) but tours have continued after the loss of a band member. I recall Metallica once had an accident that put a guitarist (I think) out of commission during a tour, and one of the roadies got the gig for a few concerts. I also recall one case (can't recall who) where a drummer (I think?) from the opening act ended up playing for both his band and the headliner for several concerts after either a death or serious injury on tour.

 

CJ (who is just trying to be helpful )

 

Edit to add: Seriously, please don't take anything I say here or elsewhere to indicate what has or hasn't happened. I won't give spoilers or real hints other than in the chapters themselves.

 

 

Alright guys time to turn up the fire under the slow roasting Goat. :2hands: :ranger: :nuke: :king: That wasn't nearly helpful towards our cause at all CJ. I'm feeling pokes at my happy little bubbles. :wacko: I understand the no spoilers or hints outside the chapters but that sounded an awful lot like pre-reinforcement of grounds for losing one of the members of Instinct.

Sorry but I have it set in my mind that that option is just not acceptable.

 

Hiding now.

[C James]

Alright guys time to turn up the fire under the slow roasting Goat. :2hands: :ranger: :nuke: :king: That wasn't nearly helpful towards our cause at all CJ. I'm feeling pokes at my happy little bubbles. :wacko: I understand the no spoilers or hints outside the chapters but that sounded an awful lot like pre-reinforcement of grounds for losing one of the members of Instinct.

Sorry but I have it set in my mind that that option is just not acceptable.

 

Hiding now.

 

I was worried that might sound like I'd already thought it out for a reason, but it isn't. Actually, I was more worried that those who know how seriously I take my research would pick up on the fact that it was obvious I hadn't researched that aspect, otherwise I'd be sure on my facts.

 

BTW, I don't know whether or not Joe will be around to post it, but I'll send 20 in a day early.

[colinian]

CJ (who is just trying to be helpful )

 

Edit to add: Seriously, please don't take anything I say here or elsewhere to indicate what has or hasn't happened. I won't give spoilers or real hints other than in the chapters themselves.

Aha!

 

Yeah, sure, "CJ (who is just trying to be helpful)." NOT!

 

Now, finally, by his own admission, we know that all of the hints CJ has provided and will provide in the future are not real hints, i.e., they are false hints, cleverly devised to hide his real intent to obfuscate what happened in chapter 19 so he can watch with that malicious grin he's so famous for as we poor readers, dangling unprotected on his EVIL Cliffhanger, lose our grips and tumble down the endless precipice of confusion and yearning as we await chapter 20.

 

So it's time to go back and look at all of the not-real "hints" that CJ has foisted upon us and do an analysis to see if, in designing these false hints, CJ has slipped up and given us a way to find out what really happened at the end of chapter 19. Probably not. CJ, in addition to being the Unrivaled King and Queen of Dire Cliffhangers, is the Ultimate Master of Deceit and Innuendo. Gaahhh! We're going to have to continue to be dangled on CJ's puppet strings waiting for chapter 20. Bother!

 

Colin

[jkeeling]

Aha!

 

Yeah, sure, "CJ (who is just trying to be helpful)." NOT!

 

Now, finally, by his own admission, we know that all of the hints CJ has provided and will provide in the future are not real hints, i.e., they are false hints, cleverly devised to hide his real intent to obfuscate what happened in chapter 19 so he can watch with that malicious grin he's so famous for as we poor readers, dangling unprotected on his EVIL Cliffhanger, lose our grips and tumble down the endless precipice of confusion and yearning as we await chapter 20.

 

So it's time to go back and look at all of the not-real "hints" that CJ has foisted upon us and do an analysis to see if, in designing these false hints, CJ has slipped up and given us a way to find out what really happened at the end of chapter 19. Probably not. CJ, in addition to being the Unrivaled King and Queen of Dire Cliffhangers, is the Ultimate Master of Deceit and Innuendo. Gaahhh! We're going to have to continue to be dangled on CJ's puppet strings waiting for chapter 20. Bother!

 

Colin

 

LoL poor (roasting) Goat.... In trying to cover his bases he just turns up the heat and gets himself into more trouble in the process. I still love ya CJ even if you are in the mood to kill characters lately.

Please please consider the request on the anthology story you posted. They were great characters that developed so fast it made my head spin.

Edited December 29, 2007 by jkeeling

[Graeme]

Now, finally, by his own admission, we know that all of the hints CJ has provided and will provide in the future are not real hints, i.e., they are false hints, cleverly devised to hide his real intent to obfuscate what happened in chapter 19 so he can watch with that malicious grin he's so famous for as we poor readers, dangling unprotected on his EVIL Cliffhanger, lose our grips and tumble down the endless precipice of confusion and yearning as we await chapter 20.

Colin, you really need to write some more and post the stories online. You've got a great writing style. Your Fairy Tale Anthology entry was very popular....

 

As for the sentiments, I think you've capture the general mood really well.

[jkeeling]

Colin, you really need to write some more and post the stories online. You've got a great writing style. Your Fairy Tale Anthology entry was very popular....

 

As for the sentiments, I think you've capture the general mood really well.

 

 

I'm gonna have to check that out.... Haven't read it yet. For some reason am easily distracted right now.

[C James]

Aha!

 

Yeah, sure, "CJ (who is just trying to be helpful)." NOT!

 

Now, finally, by his own admission, we know that all of the hints CJ has provided and will provide in the future are not real hints, i.e., they are false hints, cleverly devised to hide his real intent to obfuscate what happened in chapter 19 so he can watch with that malicious grin he's so famous for as we poor readers, dangling unprotected on his EVIL Cliffhanger, lose our grips and tumble down the endless precipice of confusion and yearning as we await chapter 20.

 

So it's time to go back and look at all of the not-real "hints" that CJ has foisted upon us and do an analysis to see if, in designing these false hints, CJ has slipped up and given us a way to find out what really happened at the end of chapter 19. Probably not. CJ, in addition to being the Unrivaled King and Queen of Dire Cliffhangers, is the Ultimate Master of Deceit and Innuendo. Gaahhh! We're going to have to continue to be dangled on CJ's puppet strings waiting for chapter 20. Bother!

 

Colin

 

What? Me? Provide false hints?

 

Well, actually, it might be amusing (and informative for me, too!) to look back on what I've said about Ch 19 after Ch 20 posts, and see if I really did tip my hand in any way.

 

BTW, we're under 48 hours from me sending in 20. I'll even, if the Echidna will forgive a spoiler, give out one bit of real information about it. There are words in it, and most of them have both consonants and vowels.

 

LoL poor (roasting) Goat.... In trying to cover his bases he just turns up the heat and gets himself into more trouble in the process. I still love ya CJ even if you are in the mood to kill characters lately.

Please please consider the request on the anthology story you posted. They were great characters that developed so fast it made my head spin.

 

We don't actually know if I've killed any characters lately. Jake was not shown to have died, just lose consciousness. Okay, the Senator in "Requiem" did die, but he was very old and also very ill, but that was back in the fall. Fall seems to be bad for my characters.. "The Muse" was in the fall 2006 anthology, and the dinner engagement might not have been the most pleasant thing in the world for the protagonist, but at least he got closer to his Muse.

 

And the only people who died in FTL were some of the bad guys.

 

Colin, you really need to write some more and post the stories online. You've got a great writing style. Your Fairy Tale Anthology entry was very popular....

 

As for the sentiments, I think you've capture the general mood really well.

 

Agreed about Colin's writing!

 

But as for the mood, might I remind you that not everyone thinks this was a cliffhanger?

[colinian]

Colin, you really need to write some more and post the stories online. You've got a great writing style. Your Fairy Tale Anthology entry was very popular....

 

As for the sentiments, I think you've capture the general mood really well.

Graeme, thanks for the compliment.

 

I haven't written anything since July. Being in college now and a computer science major is taking all of my attention and most of my time. I have squeezed in the Fiction Writing course for the upcoming semester. I will write stories that will both be course-consistent and posting-consistent! I can't wait to see the expression on the professor's face when I turn in my first story, gay-themed of course! :wacko:

 

Will I get or ??? Time will tell. In either case, it should be fun!

 

Colin

[Graeme]

Graeme, thanks for the compliment. I haven't written anything since July. Being in college now is taking all of my attention and most of my time. I have squeezed in the Fiction Writing course for the upcoming semester. I will write stories that will both be course-consistent and posting-consistent! I can't wait to see the expression on the professor's face when I turn in my first story, gay-themed of course! :wacko:

 

Will I get or ??? Time will tell. In either case, it should be fun!

 

Colin

Good luck with the writing course! If the professor is professional, he'll be marking it without being influenced by the subject matter. I suspect you wouldn't be the first gay student he's had, so I don't think you'll have a problem.

[Conner]

I haven't voted and don't intend to. This whole thing is just too upsetting.

 

What I can't get past is that the story came from a wire service. Wire services make their money when a city newspaper (or anyone in the media for that matter) picks up the story and prints it or broadcasts it. That tends to make them very cautious in getting a story right the first time.

 

The only way around that would be if the local authorities misidentified the body and passed on the incorrect information to a journalist.

 

There is going to be a body one way or another.

 

Conner

[Graeme]

What I can't get past is that the story came from a wire service. Wire services make their money when a city newspaper (or anyone in the media for that matter) picks up the story and prints it or broadcasts it. That tends to make them very cautious in getting a story right the first time.

There are still plenty of examples of times they've got it wrong, when a little bit of checking would have shown that. Earlier this year there was the story about sheep being sold to the Japanese as poodles -- which is so ridiculous that I'm still amazed that so many mainstream news suppliers believed it and printed it.

[Conner]

There are still plenty of examples of times they've got it wrong, when a little bit of checking would have shown that. Earlier this year there was the story about sheep being sold to the Japanese as poodles -- which is so ridiculous that I'm still amazed that so many mainstream news suppliers believed it and printed it.

 

If you could give me the name of the wire service on this sheep story, I would appreciate it.

 

Frankly, if there isn't a body, this whole story takes a big dive.

 

Conner

[Graeme]

Hi, Conner,

 

Here's a link to an early version of the story:

 

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/articles/2...7459874061.html

 

It's reported as being from AAP. Yes, the story is worded as a report from a tabloid (The Sun, in the UK), but the fact that it's from the AAP (and was picked up and run by both major newspaper groups in Australia -- Fairfax and News Ltd) lends it a degree of authenticity. The follow-up reveals the whole story as a hoax:

 

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0...5006301,00.html

 

http://www.smh.com.au/news/unusual-tales/b...7459927942.html

 

So, if the report from the wire service was that one of the Carlise brothers has been reported as dead, then it's accurate even if none of the brothers died -- they are reporting a reported death, not a death itself. However, I don't think either Helen or Barbra would care for the fine distinction.

 

As a side point, the original news report on the News Ltd. web sites is no longer there -- only the follow-up saying that the whole thing is a hoax. The Fairfax media (which includes the Brisbane Times and the Sydney Morning Herald) still has both the original report and the follow-up. I wonder which is being more honest?

[C James]

Graeme, thanks for the compliment.

 

I haven't written anything since July. Being in college now and a computer science major is taking all of my attention and most of my time. I have squeezed in the Fiction Writing course for the upcoming semester. I will write stories that will both be course-consistent and posting-consistent! I can't wait to see the expression on the professor's face when I turn in my first story, gay-themed of course! :wacko:

 

Will I get or ??? Time will tell. In either case, it should be fun!

 

Colin

 

Great news, Colin!!

 

Looking forward to seeing what you post.

 

I haven't voted and don't intend to. This whole thing is just too upsetting.

 

What I can't get past is that the story came from a wire service. Wire services make their money when a city newspaper (or anyone in the media for that matter) picks up the story and prints it or broadcasts it. That tends to make them very cautious in getting a story right the first time.

 

The only way around that would be if the local authorities misidentified the body and passed on the incorrect information to a journalist.

 

There is going to be a body one way or another.

 

Conner

The wire services often get it wrong. For example, I can't recall if Castro has been dead twice, or three times this year according to news reports.

 

Reuters and API, two of the biggest wire services, often get things wrong. In some cases, they are duped by dubious sources, and these are too numerous to mention here. However, here's a google search result for "Reuters Retraction". You'll find at least 10 pages of 'em.

 

Here's a link where they went with a very bad photoshop AND a dubious source.

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/9061.htm

 

Or for something more on topic, take a peek at Wikipedia's list of "premature obituaries". Many are celebs, and in many cases the news services are involved.

 

I can't resist posting this tidbit about CNN: They accidentally posted no less than seven false death reports on April 16, 2003, The pages included obituaries for Fidel Castro, Dick Cheney, Nelson Mandela, Bob Hope, Gerald Ford, Pope John Paul II, and Ronald Reagan.

 

Some of these obituaries contained fragments taken from others, particularly from Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother's obituary, which had apparently been used as a template. Dick Cheney for example was described as the 'UK's favorite grandmother', the site noted the Pope's 'love of racing', and described Castro as 'lifeguard, athlete, movie star' (a reference to Ronald Reagan). Though the Queen Mother was already dead, in an unrelated incident she had previously received a premature obituary of her own .

[Graeme]

The wire services often get it wrong. For example, I can't recall if Castro has been dead twice, or three times this year according to news reports.

 

Reuters and API, two of the biggest wire services, often get things wrong. In some cases, they are duped by dubious sources, and these are too numerous to mention here. However, here's a google search result for "Reuters Retraction". You'll find at least 10 pages of 'em.

 

Here's a link where they went with a very bad photoshop AND a dubious source.

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/9061.htm

 

Or for something more on topic, take a peek at Wikipedia's list of "premature obituaries". Many are celebs, and in many cases the news services are involved.

 

I can't resist posting this tidbit about CNN: They accidentally posted no less than seven false death reports on April 16, 2003, The pages included obituaries for Fidel Castro, Dick Cheney, Nelson Mandela, Bob Hope, Gerald Ford, Pope John Paul II, and Ronald Reagan.

 

Some of these obituaries contained fragments taken from others, particularly from Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother's obituary, which had apparently been used as a template. Dick Cheney for example was described as the 'UK's favorite grandmother', the site noted the Pope's 'love of racing', and described Castro as 'lifeguard, athlete, movie star' (a reference to Ronald Reagan). Though the Queen Mother was already dead, in an unrelated incident she had previously received a premature obituary of her own .

That's hilarious!

 

Hmm... does the fact that you are so knowledgeable on the cases of mistaken death reports mean that you've been researching the subject in preparation for LTMP?