Tiger Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Agree, completely. Ya gotta wonder if Lump is part of this conspiracy? Is Jerry's good-for-nothing son actually Dimitri? Jack If he is, Lump's supposed hatred for his father is a good cover. Maybe the plan was for Jerry to pretend to be gay as part of the cover, thus helping him gain more influence with Helen and the members of Instinct. I am 90% certain that he is somehow involved, but I do not think he is Dimitri. We'll just have to wait and see.
Benji Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 If he is, Lump's supposed hatred for his father is a good cover. Maybe the plan was for Jerry to pretend to be gay as part of the cover, thus helping him gain more influence with Helen and the members of Instinct. I am 90% certain that he is somehow involved, but I do not think he is Dimitri. We'll just have to wait and see. ........he definately is not Dimitri, I agree CJ didn't create Lump, just to dump him!
colinian Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 Oh, and I loved the bit with the cane toad. Eric was lucky with how he did it -- they're an imported pest and cause a lot of damage because (amongst other things), they're poisonous. They have poison glands on their skin that can be really nasty.... So... now we know what's going to happen next to Eric! How long does it take for the cane toad poison to take effect? Unless, of course, tequila is an antidote to cane toad poison. Is it? Colin
Tiger Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 ........he definately is not Dimitri, I agree CJ didn't create Lump, just to dump him! Lump is definitely an antogonist in the story. He also seems to be the vengeful type. I just can't wait to see how it all plays out.
Site Administrator Graeme Posted January 15, 2008 Site Administrator Posted January 15, 2008 So... now we know what's going to happen next to Eric! How long does it take for the cane toad poison to take effect? Unless, of course, tequila is an antidote to cane toad poison. Is it? No, tequila isn't a (known) antidote for cane toad poison, but Eric didn't use his bare hands to handle the toad, so he should be okay. The others also ushered the toad out, rather than trying to pick it up. Some Cane Toad information. Byron Shire, where this information is taken from, is a long way south of the location in the story. Cane toads were first introduced well north of the story location. They've been spreading steadily ever since
Benji Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 No, tequila isn't a (known) antidote for cane toad poison, but Eric didn't use his bare hands to handle the toad, so he should be okay. The others also ushered the toad out, rather than trying to pick it up. Some Cane Toad information. Byron Shire, where this information is taken from, is a long way south of the location in the story. Cane toads were first introduced well north of the story location. They've been spreading steadily ever since .........I read with interest the Cane Toad info. What I either missed or was missing, just how poisonious are these toads? Can it be fatal? Or just a hallucinator?
FrenchCanadian Posted January 15, 2008 Posted January 15, 2008 If he is, Lump's supposed hatred for his father is a good cover. Maybe the plan was for Jerry to pretend to be gay as part of the cover, thus helping him gain more influence with Helen and the members of Instinct. I am 90% certain that he is somehow involved, but I do not think he is Dimitri. We'll just have to wait and see. see I dunno, from what we know from him is that he's unreliable, that's not a very good quality for someone working for the Scar and Dimitri
YaP Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 .........I read with interest the Cane Toad info. What I either missed or was missing, just how poisonious are these toads? Can it be fatal? Or just a hallucinator? wikipedia knows it seems it can be fatal.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cane_toad Poison Bufotenin, one of the chemicals excreted by the Cane Toad, is classified as a Class 1 drug under Australian drug laws. This is the same classification as heroin and cocaine. It is thought that the effects of bufotenin are similar to that of mild poisoning; the stimulating effect, which includes mild hallucinations, lasts for less than one hour.[11] Since the Cane Toad excretes bufotenin in very small amounts, and other toxins in relatively large amounts, toad licking could result in serious illness or death.[12] i can't beleive people actually lick it !
Site Moderator TalonRider Posted January 16, 2008 Site Moderator Posted January 16, 2008 I think that Lump somewhat knows what's going on, which probably makes him a plant. Since the band dumped him, The Scar needed to do something in order to keep an eye on the band.
rbenn5 Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 aha I knew Jerry was being a little too nice!!!!!
Benji Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 aha I knew Jerry was being a little too nice!!!!! ..........A real party animal at the pool!
Site Administrator wildone Posted January 16, 2008 Site Administrator Posted January 16, 2008 Wow, what a great chapter CJ !!! I loved the way that you have developed the two stories, and now we finally have a link between the two by way of Jerry being The Scar. I also want to go off my usual stance of teasing and bugging you for a moment or two. CJ, you have always stated that there is clues in your stories that will give us insight if we recognize them, and being a goat of his word, you have definitely done that. What is surprising is that you actually started giving us clues I believe in Chapter 2. I went back and re read the first 11 chapters, after reading chapter 21, and sure enough, you had it spelled right out for anyone looking to see. Here is what clues I found, and what I interpreted them as being: Joe is the son of Jerry, who coincidently was a business partner of the Carlisle brother's father. He had other businesses as well that did not include their father (Ch.2) The Scar's favourite motto is "Fortune favors the bold" (Ch. 3) Jerry helped Helen nab Gabe. He has the information that eventually allows Gabe to be charged with fraud. (Ch 8) My interpretation is that Jerry is actually the one skimming off the money from the band, which he had access to through Joe. Gabe was just the fall guy for The Scar. Jerry tells the boys he is a homosexual (Ch.8) But really, have we ever heard of Jerry hooking up with another guy, or other than the one reference, we have nothing to go on about him being gay. My guess is that it was his way to keep connected to the band and throw everyone off. So he could continue to use them. Jerry coincidental tells Brandon and Chase "Fortune favors the bold" as they are leaving the fund raiser (Ch. 11) This was the first concrete evidence that the two were the same. Jerry mentions that he raises over $100,000 for a children's charity at the fund raiser (Ch. 11) I believe this and the skimming is how he has been funding his activities as The Scar. What stood out here is that CJ will usually name something like that, like he used Rolling Stone magazine, but we never did hear the name of the charity. There were other clues further on in the story, but I don't want to list them all. To tell the truth, the first thing that triggered my spidey senses was when I heard that Jerry was from Idaho. I know it is stereotyping (sorry Kevin ), but I live close to Idaho and they do seem to have a disproportional amount of people involve in right wing organizations, white supremacists, and guns, guns, guns. Hopefully I have not offended anyone from Idaho. So for all these clues and more, I must bow to you CJ . You gave us the important clues for us to determine that Jerry was indeed The Scar. I have some other ideas, but I think I will put them in another post. Thanks for the great chapter CJ Steve
C James Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 It's 3:30 am, so I'll have to make this quick, but I've stayed out of the thread for a day to give everyone a chance to discuss. Thank you all for your comments!! I'll reply in more detail tomorrow, but for now, let me say, MikeL, fear not, no frogs (or toads) were harmed. Let me explain a little of what I did; Yes, the clues start in Chapter 2. This is why I've been so very careful how I answer any questions about the two plotlines; the fact it, they have never been separate. Remember "The Kiss" when Dimitri and The Scar kissed in Rome? That was, in part, to show that The Scar had no problem acting gay. He's not homophobic. Also, Jerry was never mentioned as gay in the narration; only in dialog. (you can lie in one, but not the other. LoL.) Also, this is why there are other characters with multiple names; Jump (Joe Clump) and The Engineer (Vladimir) and now, we know, The Scar (Jerry). I'll post more of this tomorrow, and I'll answer any questions that don't cause spoilers for upcoming chapters. Congratulations to those who figured it out. I don't mind saying that I've been sweating a little on this for months now. LoL. BTW, now that we know a bit more about Jerry, I do hope this won't make him unpopular. I read somewhere that characters need to have a few little flaws to be believable, so now we know that Jerry is The Scar. But, nobody's perfect, right? Poor, misunderstood Jerry. I do want to remind everyone how sweet he was, in letting Eric use the scooter. And he even helped Brandon pick out Chase's Tiger's Eye necklace. So, don't be too down on Jerry; and maybe we can still use the emoticons? Anyway, I'll post in detail tomorrow, and if y'all have any question, ask away! Thanks Everyone!!! CJ
BeaStKid Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 I never saw it coming!!! Way too good a chapter... BeaStKid P.S Will comment more later...not good at giving reviews in the dead of the night P.P.S Look...my post count reads the year my country got independent...1947
Bondwriter Posted January 16, 2008 Posted January 16, 2008 I expect The Scar to remove his mask in chapter 34, revealing the features of... Clump himself! That would be fun. And let me tell ya, this guy Scar is great. Not only his role models are brilliant, but he's an amazing actor, and he had everybody completely fooled, including 90% of the readers. Way to go, Jerry! Paraguay, next stop!
Rabble_Rouser Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 Pretty amazing CJ! It wasn't until the last chapter that I figured out how you were going to integrate the two plotlines (ok, maybe I'm alittle slow...) I'm wondering if the anamocity between Jerry and his son is real and it may come back into the plot as part of the spoiler to save Paraguay! Steve
BlueSoxSWJ Posted January 17, 2008 Author Posted January 17, 2008 For the record, the reason I threw Jerry's name out there last chapter was simple process of elimination. Assuming the Scar was a character we'd met by chapter 21 (a pretty safe assumption), Jerry was the only male character I couldn't eliminate: (in order of appearance) Brandon - duh Gabe - in prison Carlisle brothers - duh Joe Clump - it's pretty clear his drug/alcohol problems aren't faked, so there's no way he could carry out such an intricate plan Dimitri - same scene w/ Scar Vladimir - same scene w/ Scar Gunter - despite the copy/pasted fountain scene, he couldn't be so frequently absent from the country without the band noticing Jim - too minor of a character, really.
BeaStKid Posted January 17, 2008 Posted January 17, 2008 can I borrow your reasoning ability for my next Physics exam, Blue???
Site Administrator wildone Posted January 18, 2008 Site Administrator Posted January 18, 2008 So I know CJ wouldn't comment on the following, so hopefully you all have some thoughts and ideas. First off, I'm wondering who the person will be to have the accident in the US. Really until the present chapter, I don't think Jerry/The Scar has anything against the bands. After all they have been a major source of income for his activities. But he wanted to tie up some loose ends in America and offering four times the rate. There is three possibilities in my mind. First. since Lump is his son, I wonder if he knows anything about dear old dad's activities or was he put in the band by dad so he could skim the money from them. If he does know anything, he would definitely be a liability. Even if he doesn't, I can't help to feel that Dad is ashamed of his son for the drugs and booze and that he wants him out of the picture. Finally he is famous, as the former lead singer of Instinct. Second is Gabe. He is probably somewhat famous now with the pictures in the tabloids and mention of his arrest in Rolling Stone. Since it appears that he was doing it for Jerry/The Scar, wouldn't he have the info to expose Jerry/The Scar, as much as Jerry did to help Helen get the information to get him arrested? I imagine it would be a liability that he probably wants to get rid of. Third is Helen. She is famous in the sense that she is the manager of the hottest rock band around. She also was able to figure out Gabe, and knows that it was Jerry who had the information. Helen may come across as abrupt, but she is also very sharp at what she does, and I imagine if she really sat down and thought about the Gabe/Jerry connection, she would figure it out herself. Lastly, I'm surprised that nobody brought up the cliffhanger in this chapter. I would guess that Dimitri is racing across the country, armed, to the resort to help The Scar take care of some nuisances right now. My guess is the four boys and Helen lives are in grave danger at the moment. Which also make me wonder if Gunter is about to earn his money as he takes on an International Arms Dealer with nuclear ambitions and a former KGB operative who seems to have no qualms in ending human life. So what do you all think? Steve
Site Administrator Graeme Posted January 18, 2008 Site Administrator Posted January 18, 2008 I had a different tack on things. The Scar seems keen on making sure his nuclear plot doesn't have loose ends. The work he has for Mario is probably to do with that. I think it hinges on the link between The Scar and Jerry. Why is Jerry (as The Scar) so keen to be involved with Instinct? It has to be related to the nuclear weapons and how they will be used. I still haven't worked out how the nuclear weapons (and those specifications that The Scar provided) results in The Scar taking over Paraguay, and that's why I don't know what's happening and where Instinct fit in. The suspicion is that it has something to do with Jerry's transport company, but there's also the possibility that it'll have something to do with the charity work he is reported to be involved in. I don't think Jerry was skimming money via Gabe. If he was, I would've expected to hear reports that Gabe had been found dead, as he would be a dangerous loose end if he was left in police custody (which was weeks, if not months, ago in the story line). It's possible Gabe and Lump had some sort of deal going, but that's pure speculation.
Site Administrator wildone Posted January 18, 2008 Site Administrator Posted January 18, 2008 I had a different tack on things. The Scar seems keen on making sure his nuclear plot doesn't have loose ends. The work he has for Mario is probably to do with that. I think it hinges on the link between The Scar and Jerry. Why is Jerry (as The Scar) so keen to be involved with Instinct? It has to be related to the nuclear weapons and how they will be used. I still haven't worked out how the nuclear weapons (and those specifications that The Scar provided) results in The Scar taking over Paraguay, and that's why I don't know what's happening and where Instinct fit in. The suspicion is that it has something to do with Jerry's transport company, but there's also the possibility that it'll have something to do with the charity work he is reported to be involved in. I don't think Jerry was skimming money via Gabe. If he was, I would've expected to hear reports that Gabe had been found dead, as he would be a dangerous loose end if he was left in police custody (which was weeks, if not months, ago in the story line). It's possible Gabe and Lump had some sort of deal going, but that's pure speculation. I guess we differ on that aspect . The reason behind my belief is that Gabe was an employee of the Scar. It was Jerry that gave Helen the information to actually convict Gabe. As far as him being involved with Instinct, I believe his only motivation was the money. If he was behind the skimming of money from the band, he would need someone inside on the day to day operation to do that. By giving up Gabe, he totally threw everybody off the idea that he could be involved....including me. Yikes!!! I just remembered that Helen was talking to the hired staff about the skimming, some of them went to Lump to question about it. Can't exactly recall what his reply, but something along the lines of let it drop. This could mean that if my theory is correct about Jerry taking the money, that Lump may have had some idea about it two. The second thing was how The Scar, acting as Jerry, came to the band and put an emotional plea to them about being the poor misunderstood homosexual dad, who's son had turned his back on him. He got Helen and the boys to buy into it, and then used them for the supposedly charity event. Jerry mentioned that he raised over $100,000 for the children's charity (coincidence that he is donating a powered chair to a child in Australia???), but was the charity ever mentioned by name? I would think that CJ would have included it's name if it was legitimate, like Shriner's Sick Children's Hospital, or Mayo Clinic Children's Hospital. I still believe that the two have always been connected in the form of money. Jerry/The Scar needed it, and the biggest Rock band would hardly need it all. Well, I've said my peace , so I will not push this theory too much more. Steve And if any of this is considered spoilers , I remind you that I'm only quoting already posted text. The fear of your spines have me wondering if I'm correct, I may have to find a pair of tweezers .
Site Administrator Graeme Posted January 18, 2008 Site Administrator Posted January 18, 2008 And if any of this is considered spoilers , I remind you that I'm only quoting already posted text. The fear of your spines have me wondering if I'm correct, I may have to find a pair of tweezers . Don't worry. All you're doing is speculating. Since you don't know the future story, no speculation can be considered to be a spoiler. It's only a spoiler if you say something you know is in a future chapter, and indicate that. And before CJ seizes on that last clause, all statements by him are assumed to be from the point of view of knowing the future chapters and thus statements of fact not supported by previously posted chapters is assumed to indicate future events, and is hence a spoiler
BlueSoxSWJ Posted January 18, 2008 Author Posted January 18, 2008 wildone - it's possible that CJ never mentioned a specific charity because Jerry simply has his own - most celebrities, even not-so-famous ones, do nowadays. Given the availability of funds to someone in the Scar's line of "work," I wouldn't imagine funding to be a problem. Also, if he did need funds, I think his own company would be much safer to skim from. Finally, I don't think the costs of a few hotel rooms would really make a dent in the sorts of monies the Scar would need. Given that Jerry asked Instinct to help Joe if he shows up, we have to assume one of two things - either Joe is in on everything, or the Scar really did "come out" to Joe. Given his alcoholic nature, I would be shocked if the former were true, so I think Joe has no clue about the whole Scar thing. Also, the staff went to Gabe, not Joe, and were told tersely to drop it and not bother the talent. Final thought - As much as I agree with people that I would be hoping that Eric would somehow mess up the Kryton switches, we know it won't happen because of the prologue. P.S. Beastkid - all you need to remember in physics is F=ma. Everything else follows.
BeaStKid Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 P.S. Beastkid - all you need to remember in physics is F=ma. Everything else follows. And that is what gives me a headache!!! About the issue at hand, me thinks that the most biggest loose end right now for the scar would be his Jerry persona... How would he explain his appearance as the head of Paraguay when he is also Jerry. So, according to me, it is Jerry he wants 'killed'. The band (Jon and Eric) are already quite suspicious about Jerry and it would be near suicidal for such a meticulous planner to leave his Jerry persona as it is and disappear and then reappear as The Scar, ruler of Paraguay. My 0.5 cents... BeaStKid
Bondwriter Posted January 18, 2008 Posted January 18, 2008 How would he explain his appearance as the head of Paraguay when he is also Jerry. So, according to me, it is Jerry he wants 'killed'. Once he removes his wig, no one can tell between The Scar and Jerry. So there's no issue here. Better yet, if he actually is Clump, as I aptly speculated, everything will turn out even better for The Scarred King of Paraguay.
Recommended Posts