Where does the comma belong?

[YaP]

Tarin is correct. Periods or commas are to be inside the quotation marks, unless followed by something in parenthesses.

Very nice, Tarin.

 

Thats something i will have to remember... definitely a difference to German here. In German you only place the period/comma within the quotation marks if its part of the quotation, so if the comma or period ends the segment/paragraph that contains the quotation, it will not be inside the quotation marks in German. Makes much more sense to me... but that may be because i am used to it

Edited March 16, 2008 by YaP

[sat8997]

Thanks, Sharon! Is that the only time you'd use single quotes?

 

Yes.

 

Sharon

[Graeme]

Not when it's anywhere near me it doesn't!

 

In a sentence that continues after the end of a quotation of speech I'll only put a comma in if the person would be pausing or taking a breath; otherwise my commas go outside the quotes to indicate the pause/break is in the narrative, not the speech.

 

E.g.

 

"The hob is still on", the man shouted as he noticed the melted plastic.

 

"Joe, come help me," he shouted over his shoulder, "I need help to rescue it."

I'll start by saying that I was also taught that a comma goes where a person would be pausing or taking a breath, but I have been told that teachers of English no longer do that. In other words, the rules have changed in the last twenty years.

 

The modern rule, as I understand it, is that dialogue is always terminated by punctuation within the double quotes. That punctuation is usually a period or comma, though question marks, exclamation marks, ellipses and dashes are also legitimate.

 

The rule seems to be less clear on quotations, as distinct from punctuation. In certain classes of quotations, where accuracy is a requirement, all punctuation must be outside the quotation marks. For example, a password or a computer command. Putting punctuation inside the quotation will alter the meaning, and hence is not allowed. The same logic, I believe, applies to punctuation such as a question mark or exclamation mark. As these can change the meaning of the quotation, they should be outside the quotes.

 

NB: Commas are one of my weakest points when it comes to my own writing. I heavily rely on my editor, who is over twenty years younger than I am, to ensure I have them correct. I'm improving, but I'll be honest and say that I don't know all the fine detail of how to use them correctly.

[S.L. Lewis]

Thats something i will have to remember... definitely a difference to German here. In German you only place the period/comma within the quotation marks if its part of the quotation, so if the comma or period ends the segment/paragraph that contains the quotation, it will not be inside the quotation marks in German. Makes much more sense to me... but that may be because i am used to it

 

 

Yeah, I noticed that. And I suppose it makes more sense to you because you are used to it, like you said. Though, in most places, at least that I've seen its inside the quotations. But then again, my grammer book could be lying to me and I don't know it.

[AFriendlyFace]

I've reluctantly come to the conclusion there are no firm rules about where the punctuation belongs with regard to dialogue or, more importantly in this case in my initial question about song titles.

I could be wrong, but I believe part of the confusion is because the "rules" will vary depending on where the person lives. As I said I may be wrong, but I think Canadians, Australians, and members of the UK might vary from Americans (and quite possibly among themselves) on this point.

[Tristan Thinks]

I'll start by saying that I was also taught that a comma goes where a person would be pausing or taking a breath, but I have been told that teachers of English no longer do that. In other words, the rules have changed in the last twenty years.

 

The modern rule, as I understand it, is that dialogue is always terminated by punctuation within the double quotes. That punctuation is usually a period or comma, though question marks, exclamation marks, ellipses and dashes are also legitimate.

I think we should stop thinking in terms of rules and think instead in terms of styles. The placement of punctuation around quotations is more a result of culture and stylistic preference.

 

It's just like rules of the road - depending on your culture and country of origin, you'll either consider driving on the left, or driving on the right, to be the rule. In fact both are simply inherited cultural preferences. On the other hand, a rule that is universal would be: use the brakes to stop, or, start a sentence with a Capital letter.

 

My style is based on common-sense. I consider how the conversation would sound and use the comma if necessary to indicate a breath or pause by the speaker.

 

Many of these so-called rules are developed by twittering academics with far too much time on their hands for their own good, who, like a housewife/househusband, from time to time feel a need to re-arrange the furniture despite the fact the rest of the family will be tripping over it as a result.

[sat8997]

Many of these so-called rules are developed by twittering academics with far too much time on their hands for their own good, who, like a housewife/househusand, from time to time feel a need to re-arrange the furniture despite the fact the rest of the family will be tripping over it as a result.

 

Bravo!!! That was brilliant.

 

Sharon

[TalonRider]

 

Never a clappy emoticon when you need one.

[BeaStKid]

 

Never a clappy emoticon when you need one.

[GaryK]

 

Never a clappy emoticon when you need one.

I have clappy emoticons for almost every occasion. You can tell Joe I'd be pleased to donate them to GA.

 

[TalonRider]

 

 

I have clappy emoticons for almost every occasion. You can tell Joe I'd be pleased to donate them to GA.

 

BK used the one I was thinking of. I have it at The House.

[GaryK]

I suppose it's a matter of personal preferences. I prefer smaller emoticons cause they usually flow in-line with the text better. There are exceptions though. Like the bloody chainsaw emoticon in one of CJ's threads.

[S.L. Lewis]

I suppose it's a matter of personal preferences. I prefer smaller emoticons cause they usually flow in-line with the text better. There are exceptions though. Like the bloody chainsaw emoticon in one of CJ's threads.

 

 

I liked that one. It made me giggle insanely. I got an odd look from my mother.

But wasn't this thread started as a way to talk about the comma and it's place within or without the quotation marks?

[GaryK]

I liked that one. It made me giggle insanely. I got an odd look from my mother.

But wasn't this thread started as a way to talk about the comma and it's place within or without the quotation marks?

Nope. It was started to talk about where a period or comma belongs when used in conjunction with the title of a song that happens to be in double quotes.

[S.L. Lewis]

Nope. It was started to talk about where a period or comma belongs when used in conjunction with the title of a song that happens to be in double quotes.

 

 

Oh yeah. Never mind me then. I blame the fact that I'm low on coffee again.

[GaryK]

No problem Rose.

 

I got the answer I needed so I guess this thread has run its course and is done.

 

Ultimately it comes down to being a matter of preference based on any number of factors.

 

Thanks again to everyone who contributed their opinion.

[BeaStKid]

BK used the one I was thinking of. I have it at The House.

Yup...the House has some awesome emoticons...

[S.L. Lewis]

No problem Rose.

 

I got the answer I needed so I guess this thread has run its course and is done.

 

Ultimately it comes down to being a matter of preference based on any number of factors.

 

Thanks again to everyone who contributed their opinion.

 

 

I'm glad that you got your answer. *bounces off to rack up a few...er comment on a few other threads* Yeah...

[GaryK]

I'm glad that you got your answer. *bounces off to rack up a few...er comment on a few other threads* Yeah...

Now you're just being a PPC/PW... take your pick as to which is less offensive!

[S.L. Lewis]

Now you're just being a PPC/PW... take your pick as to which is less offensive!

 

 

In my own defense, at the time I wrote that I was a little goofy, a little tired and without soda in reaching distance. So it was making me impatiant to finish off the 500 posts. But I did it and still kept them good.

[Procyon]

Thanks, Sharon! Is that the only time you'd use single quotes?

 

 

Yes, in the US. In Britain you'd always use inverted commas ('single quotes') except when there's a quote within a quote, then you'd use double quotes. Great stuff, eh?

[GaryK]

Yes, in the US. In Britain you'd always use inverted commas ('single quotes') except when there's a quote within a quote, then you'd use double quotes. Great stuff, eh?

I think we sometimes need to consider the medium in which we are posting our stories. Not all computers display the same characters properly. Ideally inverted quotes, be they single or double, should be used. However when publishing online it seems to be safer to use apostrophes and double-quotes.

[bones]

I'm a little rusty on this one rule...and quite embarrassed about it. Although in all fairness editing is not my specialty. Beta-reading is my forte.

 

When a sentence ends with the name of song, for example, and the song's name is quoted, does the period belong inside the quotation marks or outside?

 

I can't seem to find an appropriate example in the stylebook I'm working with. The only examples I can find seem to offer conflicting suggestions as in both examples below.

 

1. Perhaps this was why George had nicknamed her "Bluebird".

2. Perhaps this was why George had nicknamed her "Bluebird."

 

I'm having the same problem when a song is quoted followed by a comma. Do the same rules apply as in dialogue?

 

I have had trouble with this as well, but the upshot is....it's optinal. My preference is the way I was taught and that is: any quote should ONLY have those words within the quote. Any punctuation regarding that qoute, including a full stop, should be outside the quotation marks.

It's common place to have the punctuation within the quotes these days, but I don't like it. It's just a matter of preference. There are no hard and fast rules but to me, having them outside the quote is a lot cleaner (let's face it, you can do so much more that way).

bones.

 

1. ...hummed the tune of an old favorite of hers "Bluebird", while preparing...

2. ...hummed the tune of an old favorite of hers "Bluebird," while preparing...

 

Which one would you consider more appropriate? Thanks.

[Aeroplane]

Well incase that was a question..

 

The name of the song is not 'Bluebird.' or 'Bluebird,', it is 'Bluebird'. So that is how it should be used .

 

As far as wikipedia says it is an american practise to put punctuation inside the quotation marks and this is the old british grammar rule in use before the declaration of independance, and thus before the american language had an opportunity to be updated with the rules in use in british english today - grammatical rules.

 

If of course you want to stick with what is traditional over what is gramatically correct, then that is your choice .

[David McLeod]

I could be wrong, but I believe part of the confusion is because the "rules" will vary depending on where the person lives. As I said I may be wrong, but I think Canadians, Australians, and members of the UK might vary from Americans (and quite possibly among themselves) on this point.

 

AFF is correct; there are significant differences in UK/Commonwealth punctuation and USA-American punctuation. Lynne Truss's (or Lynn Truss') book, "Eats, Shoots and Leaves" has an excellent discussion of the variations. It's also a fun book to read.