I got my first 'Hate Mail' today! Wow!

[Riley Jericho]

It felt slightly surreal, to be sent an email from somebody who has been reading my curret tale "An English Teen Circumcised in the US", complaining at the story (and particularly my folly at including a thread in there, that refers to circumcision)!

 

At first, I was a bit shocked - then mostly irritated - but actually, now I kind of feel rather smug that something I wrote managed to get under someones skin enough for them to want to write to me privately and complain about it!

 

But, I'm intrigued. As you know, I've not written much and was wondering whether others had experienced any readers getting on their high horse about a subject issue you touched on?

 

Riley

[Nephylim]

I've never had hate mail, in that I have never had anyone rant over anything I've written.

 

I've had criticism, which is awesome because it helps me grow. And I've had people say they don't like something I've written, which is fine... I don't expect everyone to like everything

 

I have to admit though that I have done more than my fair share of ranting over other people's work *cough Twilight cough* (not Jamessavik's story)

 

Glad to see you've risen above it

*hugs*

[KJames]

You mean the story contains a thread about circumcision?!? OMG! I think I'm gonna faint!

 

So, I'm curious as to how you responded, if at all? Myself? I've been enjoying the story...

[Riley Jericho]

You mean the story contains a thread about circumcision?!? OMG! I think I'm gonna faint!

 

So, I'm curious as to how you responded, if at all? Myself? I've been enjoying the story...

 

I know - how people picked up on the circumcision thing though is a miracle! I wonder if the title somehow leaked the plot??

 

I've not actually responded yet.

Riley

[Riley Jericho]

I've never had hate mail, in that I have never had anyone rant over anything I've written.

 

I've had criticism, which is awesome because it helps me grow. And I've had people say they don't like something I've written, which is fine... I don't expect everyone to like everything

 

I have to admit though that I have done more than my fair share of ranting over other people's work *cough Twilight cough* (not Jamessavik's story)

 

Glad to see you've risen above it

*hugs*

Hi Neph! How are you today?

 

I think you're right. Maybe 'hate mail' is too strong, and I don't think the writer intended that. Perhaps 'Rant Mail' is closer. I also don't mind people having a good rant - at least it means they believe in something strongly! I've no idea whether the story is or will turn out to be that good, but I'm chuffed that:

a) Someone bothered to read it and

They feel strongly enough to come out and say something - even if it's against it!

 

What's really interesting is that for them, reality has blurred a little. Are we discussing a story (I mean this is a fictional story site isn't it?), or is it real life? And I'm surprised that you, of all people Neph, haven't picked up on the Facebook reference yet. And when you do.... that has to be worth another review!

 

Riley

[Tomas]

Gee... some people get their panties in a bunch over the strangest things.

 

It was the title of your story that aroused my curiosity. Going to be interesting to see where it goes. Keep it up.

 

There is a difference between legitimate criticism and a diatribe. The one, depending on how it's presented, can be very constructive and add to your continued experience and improvement as an author. The other should be filed in the same place that e-mails, letters, etc. from those who think it's their place to tell you how to tell 'your story' are filed... the ignore bin.

[Nephylim]

Hi Neph! How are you today?

 

I think you're right. Maybe 'hate mail' is too strong, and I don't think the writer intended that. Perhaps 'Rant Mail' is closer. I also don't mind people having a good rant - at least it means they believe in something strongly! I've no idea whether the story is or will turn out to be that good, but I'm chuffed that:

a) Someone bothered to read it and

They feel strongly enough to come out and say something - even if it's against it!

 

What's really interesting is that for them, reality has blurred a little. Are we discussing a story (I mean this is a fictional story site isn't it?), or is it real life? And I'm surprised that you, of all people Neph, haven't picked up on the Facebook reference yet. And when you do.... that has to be worth another review!

 

Riley

 

 

Hey... surrealism, myth, magic, vampires, philosophy, Shakespeare... that I pick up on... technology... not a chance. Haven't been on Facebook for ages and never really understood it when I did.

[JamesSavik]

I'm not sure why but the circumcision debate is often as heated as discussions about the one true religion.

 

There's no real answer for What's better? Here in the states, the numbers of uncircumcised males is growing simply because parents are talking about it now and its not something that just done automatically anymore.

 

I think that the right answer to that question is whatever. I've had wonderful lovers who were and were not circumcised. Thinking back I never even thought of them in the context of circumcised or uncircumcised. They were hot either way.

 

Regarding your story, in the South many factors could have come into play. When it takes place is very important. In the 50s-60s, circumcision was seen by some anti-Semetic Southerners as a Jewish thing and was actively discouraged.

 

Other times in a majority circumcised South, an young uncut male might feel a bit like a freak. Some curious boys, not necessarily bi-curious boys, will want to see it, touch it and figure out how it works and how its different!!

 

Case in point:

 

When I was in 8th grade, there was an 7th grader on my football team that was exceptionally shy about his goods. I could tell that it wasn't his size that he was nervous about. After practice one day we walked home, smoked a joint and I asked him why he was so shy about his dick. (At that point I had heard of circumcision but I had never seen one). He told me that he was uncircumcised and that the way people reacted to it made him feel funny.

 

I asked him how they reacted to it and he said that a lot of guys wanted a better look and many of them wanted to touch it and ask questions like what does it feel like when you jerk off!

 

He wasn't ashamed. He was just too modest to be an educational accessory!

[JamesSavik]

BTW- regarding hate mail and not circumcision:

 

anytime your writing addresses any controversy, you stand to run afoul of one side or the other.

 

It has NOTHING to do with the quality and/or caliber of your writing.

 

Most people can write mechanically and/or technically correct.

 

What makes a writer of fiction special is the creativity necessary to come up with a plot interesting enough to explore.

 

 

PS- To interested Europeans: We Americans don't force circumcision on anyone. Plenty of us will appreciate you just the way you are.

[Arpeggio]

Im really confused, how could someone hate you!

 

You're so blue and fuzzy and cuddly! -pets-

 

I'ma kick some butt, whoever this was! >=[

[Aeroplane]

For me it is often the title of the story which catches my interest.

 

 

Example.. browsing Nifty several years ago I see a story with a typo in the name and I thought.. 'This author must be really bad, I could do with laughing at a chapter before moving on to something decent'.

 

Title of the story?

 

 

'The Log Way' A few chapters of that and I came here and met all you fabulous and not-so-fabulous people.

 

 

[Mark Arbour]

Hate mail is a badge of honor. Try not to let it get to you. When I get it, if it has any resonance, then it bothers me and I ask my editing team if it's valid. They usually wipe away my tears, make me feel better, and we go on.

 

Besides, most of the hate mail I get targets my pleasant personality, not my stories.

[JamesSavik]

Hate mail is a badge of honor. Try not to let it get to you.

 

 

Yup- you might think of it as sign that you have arrived. :king:

[hh5]

I wondering what the fuss.

 

All I know it before a certain date of birth you were circumcised since most of the hospitals were in for example Beth Israel Run.

After that it turn to uncir.. as not Beth Israel Run hospital come.

 

Ok I can be wrong about the above

 

Other than that its Keep it Clear - UnCirc or You're always clean.

 

Maybe the person finds it painful reminder to do it in ones teens.

 

Hey I remember a tv show where the guy did it in this 30s.

 

So whats the fuss

 

 

Make the guy watch the commercial where a rabbi takes a cab ride that so smooth that you can circumsize a baby.

Let him rant on that commercial

[Riley Jericho]

Im really confused, how could someone hate you!

 

You're so blue and fuzzy and cuddly! -pets-

 

I'ma kick some butt, whoever this was! >=[

 

Blue and fuzzy. Crikey, that's a new one!!

Riley

[Riley Jericho]

Thanks for all the feedback and wisdom!

 

In the end, whatever you think about circumcision, it's not my intention to tell this tale with some kind of pro or anti circ agenda in mind or to start a war of words over that issue. Actually it's a love story and maybe a coming to terms with what it means to belong. And at the end....well, I guess you'll need to wait and see, though you could always ask Luke....!

 

Riley

[Graeme]

You haven't indicated if you've responded, but I thought I'd share a recent experience I had. I received an email about a recent short story where the writer disagreed with what he thought I was saying in the story. It wasn't a rant, though, so it's not in the same category of what you received.

 

What I did was to tell him that he was wrong to say that I was saying anything in the story. All I was doing was writing something to try to make people think about the subject. The views of the characters in the story are not necessarily those of myself. In this particular case I mainly agreed with the person sending the email, even though that was not what the characters in the story thought.

 

If you wanted people to think about a subject, and you get emails on that subject (positive or negative), then you've succeeded. You've made an impact on someone and I think you should be proud of the fact.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Graeme

[writeincode]

I'm the kind of person that occasionally sends rant mails. Though no personal attacks- so if your reader did that then that's not cool.

 

I'm tempted to do a bit of a rant here myself. Note that I haven't read your story (will have a look after ). But i'll try to minimize it by posting this link that can be browsed at one's own pace: http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/

Though I can't resist a bit of a rant.

I'm not sure why but the circumcision debate is often as heated as discussions about the one true religion.

 

There's no real answer for What's better? Here in the states, the numbers of uncircumcised males is growing simply because parents are talking about it now and its not something that just done automatically anymore.

I think that the right answer to that question is whatever. I've had wonderful lovers who were and were not circumcised. Thinking back I never even thought of them in the context of circumcised or uncircumcised. They were hot either way.

 

Regarding your story, in the South many factors could have come into play. When it takes place is very important. In the 50s-60s, circumcision was seen by some anti-Semetic Southerners as a Jewish thing and was actively discouraged.

 

Other times in a majority circumcised South, an young uncut male might feel a bit like a freak. Some curious boys, not necessarily bi-curious boys, will want to see it, touch it and figure out how it works and how its different.

(I move into a slightly rant that isn't necessarily just addressing your response James, but yours just prompted my tangent. I'm sure you won't take it personally though )

 

It shouldn't just be about aesthetics though. Even if there was a strong preference aesthetically one way or another, why would you force that on a baby? Nobody would give a newborn a cosmetic surgery so I think the aesthetic-debate should be void.

 

Meanwhile, there is actually a real answer emerging and that is supported by the evidence and common sense that is contraindicative to the 'evidence' that people who are pro-circumcision present. For example, it is often put forth that circumcision reduces the chance of penile cancer but incidences of penile cancer are actually outnumbered by fatalities arising from circumcision complications. As for the 'it's cleaner' argument: are guys really that incapable that they can't pull back their foreskin to clean themselves? Seems a little insulting.

 

And anyone that thinks that it's not painful for a baby to be circumcised- why in the hell not? Babies with Jewish parents are given a lick of alcohol for anesthetic and if you've ever been to a Bris you'd know that those babies scream bloody murder. Other babies aren't given any anesthetic at all because it's dangerous for babies to be under anesthetic and they experience the full pain. Some are given anesthetic and that is a danger that you do not want to unnecessarily subject your child to. Not a nice procedure to subject a baby to.

Not for the faint of heart: http://www.mothersagainstcirc.org/plastibell.htm

 

Personally, I think it should be illegal like female circumcision is in a lot of western countries.

 

*exhale*

 

(no personal attacks intended)

Edited February 28, 2010 by writeincode

[hh5]

Thanks for all the feedback and wisdom!

 

In the end, whatever you think about circumcision, it's not my intention to tell this tale with some kind of pro or anti circ agenda in mind or to start a war of words over that issue. Actually it's a love story and maybe a coming to terms with what it means to belong. And at the end....well, I guess you'll need to wait and see, though you could always ask Luke....!

 

Riley

 

Hey circ is a life altering event - many should try it - in a NYC cab.

PS gosh why didn't the brit dude didn't get this circ??

 

---

 

That pic of luke looks more american

[John Doe]

Don't let it get to you. For one of my stories, someone left a comment that he or she did not like my story because they saw it too manipulative. I just shrugged it and thought to myself that the person did not understand the circumstances my narrators were in. People either get the sotry or they don't. They formulate whatever they want about the story and you have no control over that so don't worry too much over it.

 

 

[KJames]

Thanks for all the feedback and wisdom!

 

In the end, whatever you think about circumcision, it's not my intention to tell this tale with some kind of pro or anti circ agenda in mind or to start a war of words over that issue. Actually it's a love story and maybe a coming to terms with what it means to belong. And at the end....well, I guess you'll need to wait and see, though you could always ask Luke....!

 

Riley

 

Hey, Cutie, I just thought of this one--just respond to whoever it was and tell them to stop catching their foreskin in their pants zipper!

[Jamie de Valen]

If I may be so presumptuous as to offer some advice, knowing as always that it is just that, and ultimately you will do what you feel is correct.

 

But…

 

If I was on the opposite end of the mail your describe, I'd ignore it.These kinds of exchanges rarely produce anything worthwhile. I speak from experience.

 

You've chosen to write about a topic that some people have strong… in some cases very strong feelings. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. I have read what you've posted of the story so far and there's nothing that even hints of being offensive. In fact, I'm enjoying reading it.

 

In some ways it's like someone writing about religion. Those stories also get strong reactions.

 

You can write the person back and then they may (and often do) respond still negatively, then you write back again and this might go onfor some time. You won't change the person's mind, and they won't change yours.In the end nothing is really accomplished and while you might have thought you could justify yourself, you suddenly realize that the person on the other end is unreasonable and just won't see your POV.

 

At the end of the day instead of justification you feel like your POV really doesn't matter to the person complaining.

 

I've learned to let these things sit. I chalk it up to freedom of speech and move on. It's rare to get unanimity on something especially a more controversial topic. If I myself get a genuine hate mail I don't give the person the satisfaction of even acknowledging it. I know they really don't care about my opinion and simply just want to wound, offend or insult me, and I won't give them any additional ammunition.

 

Maybe I'm being too strong here, or not giving the other person the benefit of engaging you within the framework of a civilized disagreement were one can agree to disagree, but if you haven't written back I say just let it lay.

 

You can actually be pleased that you've taken a risk and tackled a topic that has some legs and is open to different POV's. It's great to write a fluff piece that everyone likes and you always get praise... much harder to do one that some might not like or agree with.

 

It doesn't sound like it's hate mail to me, but if you start getting into a skunk-spraying contest it can escalate to that level.

 

But the natural reaction is always to respond back… if youhaven't you probably will; human curiosity being what it is. If so I'll be interested to see how it pans out. Let me know. But if you're really a strong person emotionally then set it aside.

 

In my opinion the best response of all is to: 1. continue the story; and, 2, work hard on making it one of the best you've written. That will show the kind of person you are and your character will shine though. It will also show the person on the other end of the complaint that you have the character of your convictions and aren't afraid to express your POV in a creative way.

 

If I really felt strongly against your POV then I'd write my own story with a POV coming from the other side. Have I read stories that I not only disagreed with but didn't like at all? Yes. Have I ever sent a complaint or hate mail to the author... no.

 

This is the internet for heaven's sakes every POV including the most bizarre and downright criminal is represented. If we complain all the time we don't produce anything useful ourselves.

[Riley Jericho]

Dear Sammy and Writeincode,

 

Wheels within wheels!

 

In a slightly spooky development, I unexpectedly discovered the aforementioned ranter (who initially emailed me with their strong opinions) on my own Facebook page!

 

I call it spooky, because that almost exactly mirrors a development in the actual story (An English Teen, Circumcised in the USA), where Luke also unexpectedly encounters someone that way. It's in a chapter shortly to be published, so I won't say anymore, other than (in my own case) the individual, who we shall just call Sammy, unexpectedly appeared in my own Friends of Friends list. The 'you may know this person because they are a friend of someone else already on your list' thing. Now what are the chances of that?

 

It's a bit like a good mystery story unfolding! But, actually, the chances were not that slim, because I assume that Sammy (who, of course, has to be a regular on GA to have read the tale in the first place - and is probably reading this thread too) is Facebook friends with someone from our community who has already linked with my page. For those who don't use Facebook (Neph), sorry if that sounds complicated!

 

All I can say to the two of you - we're only at the second chapter. You both seem extremely keen on the mothersagaincirc website, and have both taken pains to point me to that place. And you both clearly have some strong feelings! Nothing wrong with that! All I ask is that you give the story a chance before you slate it - and it's theme threads - too much further.

 

Thanks

Riley

[Nephylim]

Hey!!! I have a Facebook account. Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean I don't enyoy it... and I certainly enjoyed Luke's

Edited February 28, 2010 by Nephylim

[Drewbie]

hehe pats nephy those two people on fb might not be registered users on ga.

 

I'll deft have to read your story later on and keep up the good work