Poor Man's Son

[methodwriter85]

It would make a lot of sense that Marjorie would have refused to let Bill engage with his sons. It would have been socially embarrassing for people to know, and it would have pointed out that Marjorie herself could not give Bill a legitimate male heir. Considering how important that kind of thing was back then, it makes a lot of sense that she would have done whatever possible to keep it from getting out that the two sluts who slept with Bill were able to give him the one thing she was never able to do.

[rjo]

Jeremy I wonder if she knew about it. Maybe with JP or at least she may have wondered. I don't think she know about Brian. Honestly I wonder if Bill did. I just finished reading CAP again. The picture with it that we get of Bill is a good old boy, but his relationship to JP seems good. What his problem was we don't know. When I think about this I am reminded of JFK and his family. No one knew about it then. Today it would be on the news, online and all over. How things have changed.

[centexhairysub]

Aren't we going a little far down a wayward path??? Nothing in any of the stories suggest that Bill Hendrickson did not have a legitemate son; there has never been a mention of him but on the other hand neither has there been a mention that he didn't. We just need to sit back and see if Mark has an answer or explanation for us instead of getting this involved in something that maybe nothing.

[mmike1969]

Maybe nothing?

 

Sorry but name ONE CAP story of Mark's that didn't have a twist somewhere.

 

Of course it could still be nothing...

 

At least in the current story.

[methodwriter85]

It's fun to speculate what might go behind the series canon. Duh.

[centexhairysub]

Perfect!!!

[methodwriter85]

I still don't think Gathan would get a reference to the Six Million Dollar Man, but I'm just going to let that one go. I'll just pretend that Clara and Wally were big fans, so they would always make their kids sit through the tv movies that aired in the '90s. There better be a reference to some Gen Y tv show like Dawson's Creek and the like though to make up for this, Mark.

 

All in all, it was a pretty good chapter. I really loved John's characterization. He's a very smart guy, but he's also very 13. I loved the way he demonstrated his photographic memory. Considering who his parents all, I'm betting no less than a Harvard undergrad degree and a medical degree from Johns Hopkins would satisfy them. LOL.

 

I really, really liked this direction. Because if Will was set with his one true love at 14 and he only ever dated John, how much conflict and drama would Mark be able to create from his mid-teens into his mid-20's? It keeps the story possibilities open for Will not to be settled with his junior high sweetheart, and it's more true to this generation anyway. People in this generation, and especially with Will's economic status, tend to delay marriage and settling down until they're around 30 anyway.

 

[centexhairysub]

I so loved Dawson's Creek....

 

I do think this chapter was perfect but I was really sad at Will's first heartbreak. I don't guess I ever really wanted or thought that John and Will would only be with each other from now to eternity but I would still like them to end up together in fifteen years or so...

 

Didn't TVland or some channel like that start up in the late 90's? I was thinking that quite a few of those cheesey sci-fi shows from the 70's re-ran on something in the mid to late 90's.

[Caedus]

^ Also, what's the deal with with Darius lately? He's starting to be more of a prick to Gathan lately. I get that it may be part of his personality, but it seems more..pronounced than usual.

 

Good Chapter. Must hurt a lot for Will but with someone with such a mindset for his age is going to deal with this a lot as he gets older so it may be better that he went through this now or later, when John started messing around with other guys/girls.

[methodwriter85]

Who didn't love Dawson's Creek? I was so happy when Joey went with Pacey when he left on the sailboat at the end of season 3 in 2000.

 

Good Chapter. Must hurt a lot for Will but with someone with such a mindset for his age is going to deal with this a lot as he gets older so it may be better that he went through this now or later, when John started messing around with other guys/girls.

 

Considering that he's gay and that this is the hook-up generation where no one wants to date, Will IS going to have to up against that kind of mindset quite a lot.

 

I really liked that John is NOT like Jack in the sense of wanting to get settled down with his teenage sweetheart. Jack and Claire were representative of the high school sweethearts who never break up and get married while in college or just out of it. That was sweet, but it's cool that Mark's going in a different direction for John. And we already have Darius and Ella as the Jack and Claire of their generation, anyways.

 

I also think that it didn't quite work with John in terms of sex because at heart, Will's just not a bottom. If John's a top, they're pretty much doomed anyway. LOL.

[rjo]

Paris is not the perfect place it seems it should be. In a way it is a sad chapter/ I feel sorry for Will. I am hoping this will not scare him. Growing up can be hard but growing up gay is even harder. I wonder if Gathan will find that out too.

[Mark Arbour]

^ Also, what's the deal with with Darius lately? He's starting to be more of a prick to Gathan lately. I get that it may be part of his personality, but it seems more..pronounced than usual.

 

Good Chapter. Must hurt a lot for Will but with someone with such a mindset for his age is going to deal with this a lot as he gets older so it may be better that he went through this now or later, when John started messing around with other guys/girls.

 

I'll have to work harder to set the tone for Darius. It's just playful banter between guys (and between mostly straight guys at that).

 

 

Who didn't love Dawson's Creek? I was so happy when Joey went with Pacey when he left on the sailboat at the end of season 3 in 2000.

 

 

Considering that he's gay and that this is the hook-up generation where no one wants to date, Will IS going to have to up against that kind of mindset quite a lot.

 

I really liked that John is NOT like Jack in the sense of wanting to get settled down with his teenage sweetheart. Jack and Claire were representative of the high school sweethearts who never break up and get married while in college or just out of it. That was sweet, but it's cool that Mark's going in a different direction for John. And we already have Darius and Ella as the Jack and Claire of their generation, anyways.

 

I also think that it didn't quite work with John in terms of sex because at heart, Will's just not a bottom. If John's a top, they're pretty much doomed anyway. LOL.

 

 

I'm skeptical as to whether the hookup scene is more pronounced with this generation than before. It would be interesting to discover whether hooking up, with no strings attached, is more prevalent in the gay community than the straight community. If I had to speculate, I'd say that hooking up has always been at a pretty high level, relatively speaking, for the gay community. I think this generations' straight couples are just starting to catch up to that.

[methodwriter85]

Paris is not the perfect place it seems it should be. In a way it is a sad chapter/ I feel sorry for Will. I am hoping this will not scare him. Growing up can be hard but growing up gay is even harder. I wonder if Gathan will find that out too.

 

Will's issue growing up won't really be about being gay - it'll be about who he wants to be and finding the person he wants to spend his life with, same as any other person. Will's representative of that growing subset of gay boys who just didn't have to deal with being in the closet, or having internal homophobia, because they were born in the right time, the right place, and with the right family to foster a total lack of shame about being gay. You can tell he already doesn't really understand why someone would want to stay in the closet, in regards to his reaction to Zach. I've seen that mindset- gay men who don't understand closetcases because they themselves didn't struggle with being gay. Hell, to some extent, I've HAD that mindset, because I was sat down at 14 and told by family how my being gay didn't change a thing and that I was okay the way I was. Coming out at the age of 13/14 really does shape how you view yourself as a gay man, I think, because you never had a time in your coming-of-age where you were pretending to be straight or trying to hide being gay.

 

In actuality, I think Gathan might have a harder time, because people have a harder time understanding bisexual men than they do gay men, because we like things black/white. Gathan will have to deal with people who think he's a confused straight guy or a closeted gay guy, and get it from both sides about how he needs to pick a team, when...he really doesn't want or need to.

 

I'll have to work harder to set the tone for Darius. It's just playful banter between guys (and between mostly straight guys at that).

As a gay guy who's college social group mostly consisted of straight guys, I learned that basically, straight guy friends tease the 'eff out of each other. You just need to know when it's playful and when it's for real.

 

If I had to speculate, I'd say that hooking up has always been at a pretty high level, relatively speaking, for the gay community. I think this generations' straight couples are just starting to catch up to that.

The key, I think, was the de-stigmatization for girls to have pre-marital sex with guys. The other thing would be the fact that women are expected to have careers now, so they're more likely to put off marriage. Abstinence wasn't hard to achieve when the average marriage age was 19. Now that it's closer to 30, it makes sense that more women are going with the mindset that who they date at 19 aren't necessarily Mr. Right, but Mr. Right Now. So the sex can be more casual.

[mmike1969]

As a gay guy who's college social group mostly consisted of straight guys, I learned that basically, straight guy friends tease the 'eff out of each other. You just need to know when it's playful and when it's for real.

 

Of course, speaking from personal experience, the situation also depends on how much alcohol is involved and how horny the person is.

 

Simple math equation (Beer / Time lapsed of consumption) + (Horny x Days of last time of sex) = probability of scoring.

[methodwriter85]

I was never really interested in that. By the time I had that group of friends I was officially done with hook-ups. I've been celibate since 2008.

 

To get back to the story, I wonder how Kristin's going to react when she finds out that Gathan's bisexual. Some girls can be cool; other girls don't understand. I hope she's cool with it.

 

Gathan's brand of bisexuality is something we haven't quite seen before- it seemed like most the bi people we've had leaned more towards guys. Matt said he was bi, but it doesn't really look like he has an emotional connection to female sexual partners the way he can for male partner. That's why Matt seems to identify more with being gay now. Here, it seems like Gathan is about equal with both sides of his sexuality. He's physically and emotionally attracted pretty equally to both sexes. I really like that.

Edited May 31, 2011 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

This chapter is different in so many ways. I don't think we have seen a character in so much pain as Will in a long time. Jeff had a lot of pain and guilt but he let it destroy him, to the point he took his life. Roger had pain to but he used that pain and not only restored himself but also helped Mouse. When I reread the chapter again I was almost overwhelmed with Will's pain. Over these last chapters I honestly have gotten to like Will more and more. For some one who is only 14 he has many of the qualities of people who are much older. Don't we want to help him? He is bottling all his pain up and that is not good. Jeremy, I understand what you are saying. Part of this is growing up. I believe that growing up gay, however, is harder than just growing up. Here in Minnesota we have a school district which has had a number of students kill themselves because they were bullied and they were gay. Years ago I and a friend who hung himself because he was gay and he thought no one cared. Joe was only 17. I have wondered what I could have done to help him. Will promised to spend the summer in Santa Cruz with JP. I think between JP and Stef, they will be able to help him.

 

Again Jeremy I must agree with you. Gathan is maybe the first true bisexual. He is not leaning to either side. I think moving to CA and going to Stanford will change him. I believe JP is worried about him. JP has seen how sudden wealth can overwhelm a small town boy like Jeff ( it always comes back to Jeff. He's been died for 32 years and still is in the background. ) and Brian. Trust funds have destroyed a lot of people. In this case I believe and hope Gathan is stronger than Jeff and Brian. Still he has a lot to work out, We only have seen a small portion of his past.

 

In short, Both Will and Gathan have tough times ahead, but they have people who loved them and care about them to help them on their way.

[PrivateTim]

I'm skeptical as to whether the hookup scene is more pronounced with this generation than before. It would be interesting to discover whether hooking up, with no strings attached, is more prevalent in the gay community than the straight community. If I had to speculate, I'd say that hooking up has always been at a pretty high level, relatively speaking, for the gay community. I think this generations' straight couples are just starting to catch up to that.

 

I think the big difference in the older generation of gays and the newer generation is that when I was 14 in 1991 you had very limited places and ways to meet guys. You couldn't cam, a simple pic took 3 minutes to download and you really didn't have cheap digital cams yet so you had to take a pic, get it developed and then scanned so the opportunity for "those" kind of pics was limited..... that started to change pretty rapidly, but even so QuickCams weren't practical until 1999 when the prices dropped and Internet speeds became faster so you could use a cam and then there were the gay sites or gay chat rooms like AOL, and gay.com, PlanetOut, etc...

 

Okay, the point is, when I was 14, it was hard to find random hook-ups even if you wanted them, guys who are that age now have never known a time when they couldn't explore their sexuality online. Will & John are on the cusp of that wave. Hooking up when you could has always been high in the gay community, but it my day it was limited by how to meet guys. That limitation no longer exists for a lot of gay boys.

[methodwriter85]

Tim, you make a great point about the internet. When I was fifteen/sixteen, I had gay friends that I met online, and two of them were dating. The average kid in this generation started going online to make friends in middle school, and thus it really wouldn't be hard for them to meet guys. And of course, being that this is 2000, there would also be plenty of Gay Straight Alliances and the like. I mean, Will's going to take a boy to the senior prom in 2004 and it really won't be a big deal at all. That's how fast things have changed- it never would have happened at Shaker Heights in 1998 for Matt, I don't think.

 

Plus, red-faced to admit this...but I had a profile on Planetout when I was 16. Ugh. LOL. SparkNotes also used to have a dating service as well that was specifically geared towards gay teenaged boys.

Edited June 1, 2011 by methodwriter85

[GLH]

If I may interject... I live out in the sticks, hours from the nearest metropolitan area, and back in the day I was online with my new computer and it's screaming fast 1200 baud modem, chatting in gay chats on IRC and AOHell in '94. Granted, there was no one in my neighborhood to hook up with, but online hookups were going on in the chats way back then, though over much longer distances...

Edited June 1, 2011 by GLH

[methodwriter85]

Yeah, but kids weren't using the internet as much, then. That's the difference- 1999 was when the internet became cheaper, families could afford it, and for the first time you were seeing a lot of younger kids on the net. I remember that when I was first going online, it was all mostly grown-up adults...there weren't really that many kids on there. The evolution of the internet faciliated teenaged boys to meet other gay teenaged boys, whereas before the kind of environment you're talking about would have been more about grown men meeting other grown men, because the internet tended to be geared more towards adults back then.

Edited June 1, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

If I may interject... I live out in the sticks, hours from the nearest metropolitan area, and back in the day I was online with my new computer and it's screaming fast 1200 baud modem, chatting in gay chats on IRC and AOHell in '94. Granted, there was no one in my neighborhood to hook up with, but online hookups were going on in the chats way back then, though over much longer distances...

 

But of course in private chats in 1994 you had no way of knowing if that other "15 year old with a swimmer's build and the 8 incher" was 15 or 50, swimmer's build or building build and 8 or 4 1/2. Not until the Internet got fast enough for cam to cam chats could you be sure who you were talking to. That wasn't until maybe 2004 or so at the earliest. I know it seems like high speed Internet has been around for ever now, but it wasn't ubiquitous until just recently.

[methodwriter85]

Cam-to-cam chats were defnitely around earlier than 2004; I knew kids who were using cams circa 2000-2001. What changed in 2004 was that people could send photos of themselves using camera phones- 2003/2004 was when camera phones really took off.

 

Right now, the big innovation they're just on the cusp of would be the IPod, which hits in 2001. Jack seems like he'd be the first one to get it- initially, IPods were the playthings of tech-savvy thirtysomethings. They made their way down to the average teenager when the IPod Nano hit in 2003.

[KYE]

I do think this chapter was perfect but I was really sad at Will's first heartbreak.

Did you forget about Drew in Millenium? That heartbreak for Will was only 8 months ago in the story timeline. 2 heartbreaks and dealing with Gathan all within 8 months. A lot for a kid his age.

[PrivateTim]

Cam-to-cam chats were defnitely around earlier than 2004; I knew kids who were using cams circa 2000-2001. What changed in 2004 was that people could send photos of themselves using camera phones- 2003/2004 was when camera phones really took off.

 

Right now, the big innovation they're just on the cusp of would be the IPod, which hits in 2001. Jack seems like he'd be the first one to get it- initially, IPods were the playthings of tech-savvy thirtysomethings. They made their way down to the average teenager when the IPod Nano hit in 2003.

 

Cams were around but they were not ubiquitous because so few households had high speed Internet, you needed a minimum of a 128k connection and 256k was better. At a dial-up modem you didn't see motion per se but snapshots. As bandwidth cost dropped and cable companies upped their speed, the cams became very common to the point now I would say everyone below 30 has a cam.

 

Did you forget about Drew in Millenium? That heartbreak for Will was only 8 months ago in the story timeline. 2 heartbreaks and dealing with Gathan all within 8 months. A lot for a kid his age.

 

Oh please HS gay boys and HS girls experience heart break every 24 seconds. It is a proven scientific fact.....

[sat8997]

Oh please HS gay boys and HS girls experience heart break every 24 seconds. It is a proven scientific fact.....

 

Yep.