Would You Allow Your Son To Play With A Barbie Doll?

[methodwriter85]

There's this program, called What Would You Do. They set up various scenarios, and film it. In this case, the scenario is, "What happens when a boy wants to buy a doll and his father doesn't approve"?

 

I thought it was pretty interesting. And it begs the question- if you had a son who wanted to play with dolls, would you buy him one?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dao7h6XhzkM

 

I loved the responses people had- that in the end of the day, we should let kids be who they want to be, and play with what they want to play with.

[Cyhort]

If it was cheap, sure. I'd try to talk him into an action figure first though. Not for any "mah son ain't playin' with no damn girly doll" reason, but because they have better articulation and are a lot more fun to play with, plus dolls are usually a lot bigger and it wouldn't fit in with the rest of his toys.

[Former Member]

Hmm.. of course not!

Only kidding.

I don't think boys playing with girls toys would make them turn out gay.

I never played with dolls or dressed up in 'girl' clothes' myself, but I don't think it really makes a difference. Besides if they were to turn out gay. Then they were born already gay. The toys had nothing to do with it.

There's a four year old boy who lives across the street from where I live who owns Barbie dolls, a pink scooter , wears pink socks and shoes. His older brother looks like the typical eight year old boy that he is though.

Pink - not blue - is considered the popular colour for boys in some European countries.

I wouldn't have a problem with it. Although I would be worried for my son's well being among his peers.

Edited May 30, 2011 by Former Member

[Y_B]

Sure.

As long as he isn't playing with Ken more, I got nothing to worry about

[Lugh]

barbie dolls, baby dolls, faery wings.... boys need to develop their imagination and it really doesn't matter what toys do it for them. Just because it's pink and sold on the "girls" aisle does not mean it's inappropriate. Just like a truck is not inappropriate for a girl.

 

In preschool boys are encouraged to try various toys, some they happen to find they like, and want one at home.

 

Oddly it's when you say NO and make a huge deal out of it that it becomes a problem and a scar on their psyche. By just purchasing the doll (if it's within your budget to do so) just as you would an action figure and treating it as if it were no big deal, the child learns that it is no big deal, that he is not 'different', that his feelings are normal, and that you (his parent) love and accept his choices/feelings. This is the basis of a solid relationship for when they have real issues later whether it be drugs or relationships.

 

So to answer the question... would I buy my son a Barbie doll? Yes, and Kelly and Ken and even some of the accessories. But I draw the line at baby dolls that require feeding food and that pee or poop. DC even carried a manbag for a while.

[Arpeggio]

Yes, I would let my kid choose his/her own toys. You really do have to let them be what they want otherwise you just can cause damage for them later in the future.

 

Playing with barbies doesn't automatically make a boy gay or transgender, but hey, what if they were? Even if they aren't, identity won't be found by someone else forcing behaviors on them. When I was a child, my grandfather and my parents let me play with whatever I wanted, and I fell in love with cars after my first few matchbox toys, and it's a hobby of mine to work on cars now.

[Y_B]

I loved the responses people had- that in the end of the day, we should let kids be who they want to be, and play with what they want to play with.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

I'ma step aside from the Barbie example and just focus on your sentence above in general.

 

I'm all for personal discoveries, self-sought interest and growth, but I'd like to think that some control over the matter isn't all bad, and may even be necessary depending on the circumstances. Letting your kids be whoever they want to be should not be unconditional because that crosses the line from unconditional love to irresponsible love. Like letting your kids eat whatever they wish. Obviously I can't speak from the perspective of a father or a child psychologist, but I think that while I'll love my kid no matter what, it would be neglectful to let him develop preferences for things that will clearly disadvantage him in life; i.e. drop out of school. I suppose every parent in the world just wants their child to be well and as far as playing with dolls go, it's not really so bad, but it will be disheartening to see my son lose friends and respectability from it when everyone else from the neighborhood went out for football while he stays to play with Barbie, so to speak.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Yang Bang

[rustle]

The debate about parenting style is ongoing and ultimately it does rest on individual preference. While I'm all for personal discoveries, self-sought interest and growth, I'd like to think that some control over the matter isn't all bad. Letting your kids be whoever they want to be should not be unconditional because that crosses the line from unconditional love to irresponsible love. I'd like to think that when I'm a father, I'll love my kid no matter what but I'd also not want my kid to develop preferences for things that will clearly disadvantage him in life; i.e. drop out of school. I suppose every parent in the world just wants their child to be well and as far as playing with dolls go, it's not really so bad, but it will be disheartening to see my son lose friends and respectability from it when everyone else from the neighborhood went out for football while he stays to play with Barbie, so to speak.

 

This is a good point. What a kid selects as a toy at age 4 is different from age 8. The older a child gets, the more likely he or she is to be ridiculed. I'm reminded of the boy who wanted to dress as Daphne from Scooby Doo for hallowe'en. Although I had no problem with it, I wondered if the mother ever pointed out to the boy that he might be ridiculed for the costume, or if she just let him walk blithely into embarrassment, unknowing.

 

Yes, I'd let my son play with a Barbie doll if he wanted. I'd buy my daughter a football if she wanted one. Toy selection doesn't lead to gender identification, and even if it did, it would be pretty hypocritical of me to interfere or be embarrassed either way.

[Y_B]

This is a good point. What a kid selects as a toy at age 4 is different from age 8. The older a child gets, the more likely he or she is to be ridiculed.

 

Yes.

 

I'm not a advocate for conformity, and sometimes being ridiculed for being different is innocuous if you ask me, but imho there are always points in people's lives when the expenses one suffer from being out of sync with society become greater than the benefits one receive from remaining unique. At other points, that scale tips the other way. Thus, I believe that people who do best in life are the ones who are keen and flexible enough to know when to do and be what to best satisfy themselves and the rest of the world.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Yang Bang

[Lugh]

I'm not a advocate for conformity, and sometimes being ridiculed for being different is innocuous if you ask me, but imho there are always points in people's lives when the expenses one suffer from being out of sync with society become greater than the benefits one receive from remaining unique. At other points, that scale tips the other way. Thus, I believe that people who do best in life are the ones who are keen and flexible enough to know when to do and be what to best satisfy themselves and the rest of the world.

 

 

So, while you are not an advocate of conformity you are advocating it?

 

Honestly?

 

The idea is to raise a child that is secure in their own decisions no matter what that decision is from barbie to saying no to drugs to getting behind the wheel once they've had a beer and everything in between.

 

Peer pressure is such a huge issue in our society and the only way to combat the issue is to make it a non-issue. By telling a child that your friends will think ill of you and you will be ridiculed because you don't choose to do this or you do choose to do that... you are setting them up to make decisions later in life based on what their friends think.

[Y_B]

So, while you are not an advocate of conformity you are advocating it?

 

 

You misunderstand.

I'm not an advocate for a kind of total and blind conformity that stems from the inability to develop the self. I'm an encourager of perception and knowing when there can be certain benefits to adhering to social standards and when there can be certain benefits to remain individual. In other words, I encourage careful eclecticism.

 

The idea is to raise a child that is secure in their own decisions no matter what that decision is from barbie to saying no to drugs to getting behind the wheel once they've had a beer and everything in between.

 

Incomplete.

The idea is to raise a child that is secure and smart in their own decisions. Security in decision means nothing if it did not come about from good rationale. The fact that so many decisions lead to regret implies that people make too many "secure" decisions without thinking of possible consequences. Sure, there's no way to predict the outcome of every decision, but there are many secure but bad decisions that can be prevented, such as "I've only had 2 drinks, I can drive just fine".

 

Peer pressure is such a huge issue in our society and the only way to combat the issue is to make it a non-issue. By telling a child that your friends will think ill of you and you will be ridiculed because you don't choose to do this or you do choose to do that... you are setting them up to make decisions later in life based on what their friends think.

 

Well, first off, most likely kids won't need you to tell them for them to know if and when they are thought ill of by their friends. The only thing parents can do is to reassure them if it does occur.

 

And it's not as simple as peer pressure, which btw will never be a non-issue. By telling a person that, for example, an employer will think ill of you if you walk into an interview dressed in pajamas is not an attempt to discredit that person's own sense of expression.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Yang Bang

[TetRefine]

Well, I would strongly try to steer him toward the GI Joe or race car or other "gender appropriate" toys. But if he was persistent, then I'd let him have it. As much as I wouldn't like it, if thats what makes him happy and he isn't causing problems, then who am I to deny it to him.

[Krista]

Yes, I would. I see nothing wrong and dolls is a good way for children to be... imaginative.

[DragonFire]

Hehe, I wanted one as a kid but my mum refused to get me it! You have no idea how many times she's told that story to my friends, boyfriends etc.

 

So yes I would, a doll or action figure helps develop a childs mind, so no issue here.

[rustle]

So, while you are not an advocate of conformity you are advocating it?

 

Honestly?

 

The idea is to raise a child that is secure in their own decisions no matter what that decision is from barbie to saying no to drugs to getting behind the wheel once they've had a beer and everything in between.

 

Peer pressure is such a huge issue in our society and the only way to combat the issue is to make it a non-issue. By telling a child that your friends will think ill of you and you will be ridiculed because you don't choose to do this or you do choose to do that... you are setting them up to make decisions later in life based on what their friends think.

 

 

Sometimes, peer pressure is not a bad thing, and going along with a crowd enables a kid to have a healthy social life. And sometimes, pointing out potential for ridicule can be beneficial. Like telling a child that not taking drugs may make them less popular, but pointing out the harm that can come of it. The same for drinking and driving.

 

A little more on-topic, though, as a parent, would you ever point out to one of your kids that something that he chooses to do is a "gender bender," and may be unpopular? I'm not saying discourage it, but bring it to the kid's attention, while encouraging him to make and stand by his own decision.

[Nephylim]

Well, I think I would be uncomfortable with my son wanting to play with Barbie specifically because I don't like what Barbie represents and the messages it conveys. I would dislike Bratz for the same reason.

 

However, if he reallly wanted one then I wouldn't fight too hard, and if it was any other kind of doll I would be completely happy with it. In fact I have bought my son dolls and I have a number of photographs of him dressed as a girl, one of them with fairy wings and everything.

[John Galaor]

Well, yes and no.

 

I'ma step aside from the Barbie example and just focus on your sentence above in general.

 

I'm all for personal discoveries, self-sought interest and growth, but I'd like to think that some control over the matter isn't all bad, and may even be necessary depending on the circumstances. Letting your kids be whoever they want to be should not be unconditional because that crosses the line from unconditional love to irresponsible love. Like letting your kids eat whatever they wish. Obviously I can't speak from the perspective of a father or a child psychologist, but I think that while I'll love my kid no matter what, it would be neglectful to let him develop preferences for things that will clearly disadvantage him in life; i.e. drop out of school. I suppose every parent in the world just wants their child to be well and as far as playing with dolls go, it's not really so bad, but it will be disheartening to see my son lose friends and respectability from it when everyone else from the neighborhood went out for football while he stays to play with Barbie, so to speak.

 

Your argument looks sensible. The main problem I see is "negativity". Many children develop a behavior of negativity, in the sense of wanting not to obey most of the orders, or petitions their parents make.

If a boy develops a strong negativity, to negate him a petition reinforces their willing for that thing precisely. But, if the boy had not developed a negativity, it is easy to say no to him.

Most boys show some degree of negativity and that gives a lot of headaches to parents; specially if the negativity is strong.

 

Then, if the boy were obstinate, I would buy the Barbie if he wants one. I mean if I know he is negative, I would not play with that. If I do not pay any attention to that thing, this toy would end up forgotten in a box like most toys are. If I make a fuss about this issue, his desire would get stronger, at least to piss off me or his mother.

Many disobedient boys extract a lot of pleasure out of pissing off his parents with negations.

 

It we are aware of this possibility, the negativism, we would avoid to pay attention when a boy ignores an order or a petition we had made to him. This delaying to obey an order comes from the fact that we do not praise the child often enough when he obeys. Instead of that, some parents put a lot more attention on the child disobedience, or to his rejection of an order or petition.

 

Then parents that have an authoritarian streak are very sensible to this sort of behavior, and are more prone to repeat an order to the child when he delays to obey and so on. This disobedience would excite the authority in the father or mother and made a case of insisting on giving orders to force the child to obey.

 

A parent that is not authoritarian would think, "he is fed up of executing so many orders. I should give him more attentions when he obeys." Then he waits patiently to the next occasion when the boy obeys an order. Then you can exaggerate your praises to him as he is a very good child.

And that's all. I am not authoritarian I would not comment on the delay of the boy to execute an order. I will forget he does not obey for I am sure he is fed up of obeying. He is obeying for nothing. Then this is not good. People usually do some work and is paid for it. Then, the least we can do for a boy is to praise him well, when he behaves nicely. And shut up our mouths when he does not. We should feign we had not seen any piece of bad behavior. But by praising his good deeds consistently, we would help him to become a lovely kid.

 

Another problem is to solve a case of extreme "negativism" in a child. I had been consulted by some parents with this problems, but they do not like my explanation. For it means the cause of the boy disobedience are their own behavior with the child. I understand this rejection of the theory. I would be also piss off if some tell me that. The stubborn negative behavior of my kid has been caused by my own reaction to his acts. It sucks! Isn't it? So, I have to be rather cunning to explain to them how to solve this problem. It is not any easy.

 

Other question is to do as Lugh said in another place; it was time for going to preschool and the boy do not want to cloth. Then, there is the option of asking him, "do you want to go to school in pajama?" If he says yeas, "all right, you will go on pajama." Then, perhaps he would change his mind when he sees he is going in pajama to preschool.

A similar case is when a boy does not want to put his shoes when we are on our way for a visit.

I remember, my daughter told me something like this, when she was like 6 years or so.

"Well, you can go bare foot." I told her. As I showed myself ready to go there, it was a wish of my wife, she thought it was not a good idea of going barefoot anywhere.

Her negative was mostly due that these visits to relatives sucks a lot for children. They are boring to death.

 

I had observed this same problem with the kids of other people also. A kid, specially if he is alone with adults chattering, get utterly bored. It is only natural, and the only solution is sit him on your knees and caress him and play with him while the boring chatter goes on. You can also interrupt the chatter a while and present the boy to those... relatives, making him the star of the show for a while. Boys want to be stars and become the focus of all lights for a while.

 

There is not any problem if there are more children in the house and they can play together, while we do all the boring chattering.

 

But I agree with Yang Bang, is a sad thing imagine that our boy has a mental obsession with the Barbi and he does not go to play out with the other boys of his age. I would try my best to avoid this trap if I can. But if cannot change the thing by some innocent trick I had to accept the fate that he really like Barbies. The case is that I cannot imagine that we had inherited any gene to play with barbies as we had not any genes to play a piano, or a violin.

 

My idea is that with violence and threatenings we cannot change a behavior. A strong behavior that is prosecuted with violence or a death penalty does not disappear into a void, it simply hides in a closet. Or into the hidden fantasies of someone. Then, as it is hidden it looks as it does not exist.

[Lugh]

heh

 

the identity-bending exploits of DC:

 

he owns and actually wears to school... usually sometime in the first week... a "Son of a Queer" t-shirt.

 

he owns "Bastard Nation" t-shirts and claims this as his 'cultural identity' when asked

 

he claims 'other' as his racial identity, when asked, he states, I know what my father is but my mother is unknown

 

his hair has been (and I have pictorial proof) blue, orange, green, red, pink, and platinum

 

he is both a jock and in drama

 

he came out as straight to me, complete with the sit down talk, don't want to hurt your feelings, I'm sorry to disappoint you....

 

he has worn kilts to school in lieu of pants... with combat boots... in high school

 

and finally -- he's been before the school board for expulsion twice, won the presidential volunterism award (600+ hours since he was 13), made life scout, turned 16 (as of Tuesday), earned his adult level black belt (as of the end of May), had one pregnancy scare, one (major) STD scare, and kissed a boy... in the past 12 months.

 

 

Would I buy him another barbie? yeah.

[Rilbur]

Before the school board for expulsion... twice? Yeouch!

 

Kilt and combat boots?

 

I like this kid!

[Lugh]

heh he was making a "political statement" about the unfairness of the school rules because in winter the boys must wear long pants but the girls can wear skirts that come above the knee (so long as they are past the finger tips when standing) at any time of the year.. we have warm days like 70 degress sometimes in the winter and the heat is on in the school, several of the boys protested...

[methodwriter85]

As a guy who never conformed to gender stereotypes, I gotta say your son sounds awesome, Lugh!

[Nephylim]

With a father like you how could he be anything other than fab... stubborn... weird... wonderful

[XBadboyX]

I suppose.. if he really wants it.

 

Children aren't even something I'm beginning to think about....

 

 

 

 

[John Galaor]

heh he was making a "political statement" about the unfairness of the school rules because in winter the boys must wear long pants but the girls can wear skirts that come above the knee (so long as they are past the finger tips when standing) at any time of the year.. we have warm days like 70 degress sometimes in the winter and the heat is on in the school, several of the boys protested...

 

my god! In the US you got still a lot of wars. I am amazed.

[John Galaor]

heh

 

the identity-bending exploits of DC:

 

he owns and actually wears to school... usually sometime in the first week... a "Son of a Queer" t-shirt.

 

he owns "Bastard Nation" t-shirts and claims this as his 'cultural identity' when asked

 

he claims 'other' as his racial identity, when asked, he states, I know what my father is but my mother is unknown

 

his hair has been (and I have pictorial proof) blue, orange, green, red, pink, and platinum

 

he is both a jock and in drama

 

he came out as straight to me, complete with the sit down talk, don't want to hurt your feelings, I'm sorry to disappoint you....

 

he has worn kilts to school in lieu of pants... with combat boots... in high school

 

and finally -- he's been before the school board for expulsion twice, won the presidential volunterism award (600+ hours since he was 13), made life scout, turned 16 (as of Tuesday), earned his adult level black belt (as of the end of May), had one pregnancy scare, one (major) STD scare, and kissed a boy... in the past 12 months.

 

 

Would I buy him another barbie? yeah.

 

He looks quite a fighter. My! It is like he has has come out the Star Wars or The Lord of the Ring.

 

it seems in the US people is very prone to wars. I am amazed.