9-11 Poll: Who doesn't make it

[Mark Arbour]

Alright, I did this once before quite a while ago, but as I get closer to writing the chapters on that fateful day, I'm pondering my God-like powers of life and death, and thought I'd get input from you all.  So I started a poll, and this thread, so you can tell me who you see as potential casualties.    I pretty much have it figured out in my mind, but I'd like hear your thoughts.  No hard feelings if I don't listen to you, though.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Mark Arbour

[methodwriter85]

    Tim must be so disapointed you don't have Tony as an option.

 

    That's also a pretty limited list there. I'm surprised Wade's parents aren't on the list, or that Ella Hayes isn't on the list, either- isn't she going to FIT in Manhattan for school?

Edited July 8, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

Jeremy raises a good point, in that the list is by  no means exhaustive.  I was limited to 15 choices per question, so I picked the first 15 people that came to my mind.  

[Miles Long]

Lark needs to be on the perish list; Tony wouldn't be a bad option either .

 

Stream of conscious ponderings...of all the characters, the one that make logical sense to perish is Hank and not for any reason other than being a cop. Jeanine, Madison and Ella are all in NYC but unless they happen to be hanging out in Battery Park that morning I don't see them as victims. Brad and Stef are viable candidates as people who would have reason to be in the towers for business dealings. However, if Stef dies I will probably have to leave GA because my grief will be too overwhelming.

 

I think that whoever ends up leaving the CAP literaryverse will have to have their story threads start pretty soon since the list of folks is pretty left coast centric.

 

I look forward to seeing how it plays out no matter who ends up as the 9.11 sacrifice.

[MJ85]

Seeing as this whole series started with JP, it feels like it would be the ultimate exercise in dramatic cliche for him to be the one who perishes. I suspect that if it were Stef, then your readers would put you on the chopping block right next to him.

 

There's probably more that I could think of on this, but that's what instantly comes to mind at the moment.

[methodwriter85]

   I was thinking though...what if Hank doesn't die at 9/11, but she dies of cancer that she develops as a result of breathing in the debris at the WTC?

 

   I'm also thinking that at least a few characters will wind up in the War on Terror.

[Miles Long]

I was thinking though...what if Hank doesn't die at 9/11, but she dies of cancer that she develops as a result of breathing in the debris at the WTC?

 

   I'm also thinking that at least a few characters will wind up in the War on Terror.

I kind of see any death whether that day or some day later as a result of exposure to the event as a 9.11 death. It's more drawn out but no less tragic.

 

I can totally see Darius jumping in on the war on terror. He's already expressed interest in the military (via his passing on an opportunity) and this may be the event that reignites that interest.

[Mark Arbour]

Darius would have an interesting time in the military after 9-11, since his natural father is Iranian.  The only thing worse than that would be if he was gay.  Who would the military have reviled more: a gay man, or a man who was half-Iranian?

[Miles Long]

Darius would have an interesting time in the military after 9-11, since his natural father is Iranian.  The only thing worse than that would be if he was gay.  Who would the military have reviled more: a gay man, or a man who was half-Iranian?

Darius may be half Iranian but you have not expounded on him being particularly Persian looking, my supposition is he could be part of the American Born Persian/American Born Arab contingent who see their loyalty lies with the US versus the country their parent/grand parents originated from and sign up to prove/show their loyalty.

 

As to who would be more reviled? Good question, only the gay guy would have to have been in the closet to serve in 2001; whereas an Iranian American is free to serve and not be discharged for his ethnicity.

[methodwriter85]

   It's doesn't matter if Darius isn't particularly Persian-looking. Since day 1 of Darius's existence in the story, he has been seen as "not white" by the characters in the story- and it's something that's been commented on by almost every protagonist we've had- that Darius is a little more exotic than anyone else in his lily-white family. He's going to get comments after 9/11.

 

    I could see a character joining up with the military to prove he's straight. I thought that might have been Tony, but I'm thinking that it's not so much Tony's angst about being gay that's the problem. I'm not sure I can see Tony being that desperate to make himself straight now.

Edited July 9, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Miles Long]

   It's doesn't matter if Darius isn't particularly Persian-looking. Since day 1 of Darius's existence in the story, he has been seen as "not white" by the characters in the story- and it's something that's been commented on by almost every protagonist we've had- that Darius is a little more exotic than anyone else in his lily-white family. He's going to get comments after 9/11.

 

 

"Not white" and "exotic" can mean a lot of things, especially if this is what you determined Darius looks like.  This guy, with Schluter as last name is not going to register as potential terrorist.  In fact, unless he tells people what his ethnicity is, I doubt anyone would automatically assume his exotic looks were Persian at all.  Put him in a uniform and he makes a striking naval officer.

 

 

[methodwriter85]

    Okay, this is a debate we already went through with Private Tim, and I'm not going there again. We'll just agree to disagree.

 

    One thing that I do wonder about...would Darius drop out of UCLA in order to sign up? Mark has said no way because of the way his family is, but I don't know- it'd be one thing to drop out just because, but another to drop out because you want to enlist. It'd be harder for JP  to argue against, considering the military history tradition of the family.That could be interesting. It does happen.Or Darius could join the UCLA ROTC and graduate in 2004, which would be a year into the Iraq War.

 

   So...the teen characters like Marie and Will...shouldn't they be school on 9/11, anyway? If JJ had stayed a junior figure skater, he would have been at the Junior Grand Prix in Bulgaria...he could still skate in junior events, I believe- as long as you're under 19 and you don't skate as both a senior and a junior at the international events. Both Johnny Weir and Evan Lysacek did both, especially Evan. Allthough I think we have JJ going to the 2001 Nebelhorn Trophy in Germany from September 4th to September 7th.

 

    Did classes get cancelled on 9/11 on the West Coast? I know they did here in Delaware, as our governor declared a state of Emergency because we were 3 hours away from NYC, 90 minutes away from D.C., and Philadelphia was an hour north and a considered a target, but Cali would have been a different story.

Edited July 9, 2013 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

I voted but not sure how I feel about who doesn't make it yet; I went with JJ and Tiffany.  Maybe something happens and for whatever reason they head back early because JJ has to pull out of the competition in Bulgaria.  I am going to have to think more about if they or any of the others on the list should perish...

 

The only person that cannot die is JP.  I think for me and a lot of the others that have followed this from the start; JP's death will end the saga.  There are several listed that I would hate to lose but the only one that cannot die is JP.

[PrivateTim]

Tony must die!

 

What the heck is "Persian" looking? LA is full of Persians and they don't look all that different from the Armenians, Southern Italians, Mexicans, Spanish, a bunch of South Americans and the rest of the Middle East and he is only 1/2 Persian to begin with.

 

 

Edited July 9, 2013 by PrivateTim

[Miles Long]

What the heck is "Persian" looking? LA is full of Persians and they don't look all that different from the Armenians, Southern Italians, Mexicans, Spanish, a bunch of South Americans and the rest of the Middle East and he is only 1/2 Persian to begin with.

 

 

Exactly my point! Unless the story needs to go in that direction I don't see Darius as a target just because of his father's nationality. Come to think about more hostility was directed at the Sikh community because bigots aren't that bright and confused or wrapped the Sikhs up as the same as the ones who were behind the attack. Edited July 9, 2013 by Miles Long

[Miles Long]

    So...the teen characters like Marie and Will...shouldn't they be school on 9/11, anyway?

 

    Did classes get cancelled on 9/11 on the West Coast? I know they did here in Delaware, as our governor declared a state of Emergency because we were 3 hours away from NYC, 90 minutes away from D.C., and Philadelphia was an hour north and a considered a target, but Cali would have been a different story.

Yes, school would have started, so unless Will, Marie and John are traveling they would be at home.

 

As for classes, I was out of school working at the time. What I recall is that in the Bay Area financial districts shut down, BART had to deal with a mass exodus and huge crowding in the Embarcadero, Montgomery and even Powell and Civic Center stations. Theme parks like Disneyland shut down for the day, utility companies pulled all non essential vehicles off the road, commerce (deliveries of goods) slowed down over concerns of trucks potentially being used next. That day most places sent people home around the Bay Area because most people were in total shock.

[Gene Splicer PHD]

I think it's fun to consider what would happen if Mark killed off a core, fundamental character.

 

For example, Brad. I think of the impact killing him would have on the whole CAP universe, and I think that could make for a whole new interesting set of plot lines. There is the impact it would have on Robbie and on his children and family, the financial implications for his businesses- just how much of the family would unravel, and how much it would pull together, that kind of thing.

 

Or killing Robbie for the same reasons, with the added spectacle of Brad using his defense industry experience and contacts to create a Blackwater/ze/academi business, hellbent on avenging him.

 

Or, what about someone being gravely injured - Wade loses his arms or legs and everyone's reactions, how he recovers, etc. - Or a closed head injury with profound brain damage. How does the family react? Would Elizabeth come sharking around to reestablish her dominance over his fortune?

 

 

Lots of possibilities...

 

Also I note a distinct "kill the girls" trend in the voting. What's up with that?

[PrivateTim]

  

 Did classes get cancelled on 9/11 on the West Coast? I know they did here in Delaware, as our governor declared a state of Emergency because we were 3 hours away from NYC, 90 minutes away from D.C., and Philadelphia was an hour north and a considered a target, but Cali would have been a different story.

 

California is a bit bigger than Delaware. Different districts did different things. A lot did not close because parents wouldn't known what to do with their kids since there are so many working parents. Some schools cancelled athletics, some didn't. I actually refereed a water polo game that day and was grateful for the distraction so I didn't have to be at the house glued to a TV set. It also led to some really interesting conversations with the high school guys about what that day would mean.

 

I know my parents opera was cancelled that day. All the studios were closed as were the theme parks since they were all considered potential targets and the tall buildings in LA & SF were closed too as potential targets.

[centexhairysub]

Okay, I have spend the day thinking about this and am back for more observations and questions.  As I have stated before, I don't think anyone in the CAP universe really has to die.  This was an event that even those that did not lose someone close were affected by this event.  Plus, there are so many not listed that are in the CAP universe since Mark could only list fifteen people. 

 

I was one of those that when Hank was introduced had a knee jerk reaction that she was only here to die; but I doubt that she will be killed because really, when has Mark ever taken the easy and obvious way out.  Plus, what are the odds that out of the 23 New York Police Officers killed, out of more than 35,000, that the one we know is one of those that is killed.  I also think that you might as well just kill Jeanine because after everything she has gone through, I don't think she would survive Hank's death.  I just can't see Mark selecting someone this obvious. 

 

I thought about Ella, her death would really affect Darius and Gathan.  I could see both of them making moves to the military if Ella was killed.  She is in New York for school and there could be any number of reasons she was in the WTC area.  I have to say her selection would also be a little obvious so I am not sure she is in that much danger.

 

I could see Elizabeth Danfield being in New York after her divorce and being in the WTC and being killed.  Her death would give that sense of being touched by tragedy without really affecting even her own family.  I mean really who would miss her?

 

John Carullo is from the area and could be back there and working or visiting friends that worked in the WTC.  He would have a very plausible reason to be in the area but I am going to just hate it if he is killed.  I have always really liked him and sort of want to see him maybe end up with Gathan.

 

I had to answer on who would die in order to say that JP could not be killed, so I picked JJ and Tiffany.  I still think it would be really easy for them to be coming back from Europe, JJ has an injury, and be on one of the plans that were used.  JJ's death would really impact his immediate family while Tiffany's death would hit Wade and Matt both hard.  JJ's death could act as an unifying event much as Billy's death did.  With Tiffany's death, Wade would become sole parent of their child and her death could eliminate some issues in the future. 

 

A really good article on nymag.com estimated that a full twenty percent of the country knew someone that was killed or injured in the attacks on 9/11.  There were a total of 2977 killed on that day, I am not going to include the 19 fools that caused this in my total, and another 6000 injured.  Even if no one for the CAP universe that we have ever heard of isn't killed; the odds are that someone will know someone that died or was injured.

 

I am still going to say that the only person that just cannot be killed in JP.  Everyone else is fair game, I guess.  This doesn't mean I would be happy with there deaths it just means that the saga could continue without them....

[Mark Arbour]

Okay, I have spend the day thinking about this and am back for more observations and questions.  As I have stated before, I don't think anyone in the CAP universe really has to die.  This was an event that even those that did not lose someone close were affected by this event.  Plus, there are so many not listed that are in the CAP universe since Mark could only list fifteen people. 

 

I was one of those that when Hank was introduced had a knee jerk reaction that she was only here to die; but I doubt that she will be killed because really, when has Mark ever taken the easy and obvious way out.  Plus, what are the odds that out of the 23 New York Police Officers killed, out of more than 35,000, that the one we know is one of those that is killed.  I also think that you might as well just kill Jeanine because after everything she has gone through, I don't think she would survive Hank's death.  I just can't see Mark selecting someone this obvious. 

 

I thought about Ella, her death would really affect Darius and Gathan.  I could see both of them making moves to the military if Ella was killed.  She is in New York for school and there could be any number of reasons she was in the WTC area.  I have to say her selection would also be a little obvious so I am not sure she is in that much danger.

 

I could see Elizabeth Danfield being in New York after her divorce and being in the WTC and being killed.  Her death would give that sense of being touched by tragedy without really affecting even her own family.  I mean really who would miss her?

 

John Carullo is from the area and could be back there and working or visiting friends that worked in the WTC.  He would have a very plausible reason to be in the area but I am going to just hate it if he is killed.  I have always really liked him and sort of want to see him maybe end up with Gathan.

 

I had to answer on who would die in order to say that JP could not be killed, so I picked JJ and Tiffany.  I still think it would be really easy for them to be coming back from Europe, JJ has an injury, and be on one of the plans that were used.  JJ's death would really impact his immediate family while Tiffany's death would hit Wade and Matt both hard.  JJ's death could act as an unifying event much as Billy's death did.  With Tiffany's death, Wade would become sole parent of their child and her death could eliminate some issues in the future. 

 

A really good article on nymag.com estimated that a full twenty percent of the country knew someone that was killed or injured in the attacks on 9/11.  There were a total of 2977 killed on that day, I am not going to include the 19 fools that caused this in my total, and another 6000 injured.  Even if no one for the CAP universe that we have ever heard of isn't killed; the odds are that someone will know someone that died or was injured.

 

I am still going to say that the only person that just cannot be killed in JP.  Everyone else is fair game, I guess.  This doesn't mean I would be happy with there deaths it just means that the saga could continue without them....

 

I am stunned that you advocated killing off JJ and Sharon didn't like your post.

[methodwriter85]

   Me, too.

 

   By the way, the flights didn't come in from Europe- Flight 11 (North Tower) was Boston to Los Angeles, Flight 175 (South Tower) was Boston to Los Angeles, Flight 77 (Pentagon) was Dulles, Virginia to Los Angeles, and Flight 93 (Shanksville) was Newark, NJ to San Francisco. The Shanksville one was of particular interest to me, because I had a grad schoolmate who worked at the 9/11 Memorial site there.

 

  Do any of them fly commericial? It seems strongly implied that they all use private jets.

 

  I do think John Carullo would make sense as a possible victim as well, especially if he was working as a summer internship or something in NYC. (He might have graduated from Stanford at this point- I don't think it's been explicitly said that John was in Matt and Wade's class.)

 

   I also wonder about possibly of having people who aren't killed, but are seriously injured by it. How would Will react to being paralyzed or maybe blinded, even if temporarily? Or how would Matt handle brain damage, especially given that he's in his senior year at Stanford?   That's something Mark's never really covered in CAP. There was Fitz in CAP, but he killed himself before we could see how he coped with living a disabled life.

 

   And if Mark does go with having people there, the PSTD issues should be interesting. We got some of that with Will after his kidnapping, but I would imagine that the PSTD stuff would be even more intense if our characters are actually at the site.

 

   It's going to be really interesting, given that Mark can't really do a "happy" ending here like he normally does. America was in a funk for a pretty long time.

Edited July 10, 2013 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

America was in a funk for a pretty long time.

 

I don't remember it that way.  I remember the outrage at the attacks, but then I remember the solidarity that came afterward.  There was a general global outpouring of goodwill, and I remember feeling very proud to be an American, until George Bush fucked it all up by invading Iraq. 

[JimCarter]

I don't remember it that way.  I remember the outrage at the attacks, but then I remember the solidarity that came afterward.  There was a general global outpouring of goodwill, and I remember feeling very proud to be an American, until George Bush fucked it all up by invading Iraq. 

 

Amen.  That is exactly how I remember it.

[rjo]

I remember getting ready for work and seeing the first tower hit. I thought was this real? then the second tower. Oh God! it is!! I went to work but it was closed because it was on the list. Shock first, Unity second and then pride to be an American. No matter if any Cap members die or not they will be changed, sobered up. Just having all the planes grounded showed the country this was something awe full. I could see Darius, Gathan and maybe Tony signup. JJ and Tiffany get stuck in Europe of on the way back home. A number of characters could be in New York. I agree with David JP must live I think Will must live too. Lets face it for better or worse, Will is the future of this family.

[methodwriter85]

I don't remember it that way.  I remember the outrage at the attacks, but then I remember the solidarity that came afterward.  There was a general global outpouring of goodwill, and I remember feeling very proud to be an American, until George Bush fucked it all up by invading Iraq. 

 

    It's possible that my view of the time is shaded by the fact that I was in 9th grade, and my friends were emo kids who liked to bitch about how awful life is. Also by the fact that 9/11 effectively ended the boyband/Britney and Co. pop explosion in the U.S. and by that time we were sitting around and whining about life to Good Charlotte, New Found Glory, and Dashboard Confessional.

 

    I did think it was funny though when people were saying that American society would become "deeper" as a result of 9/11...and then in 2002 The Osbournes became the hot new cable show.