How do people show disdain for being G, L, or BI?

[obscene cupcake]

When it was obvious you were LGB or at times when you were doing things like kissing a person of the same sex in public, how did people who were against this show their disdain?

 

I am so tired of the over the top responses I see in Harry Potter fanfiction of homophobes and decided to write my own ficlet, but I don't really know how people against different sexualitys react irl. My own sexuality, a mostly heterosexual dominatrix, is easy enough to hide. 

 

I can use my imagination- I imagine most people would try to avoid looking at a display of homosexuality and when your backs were turned would glare, and only rarely would some incredibly stupid person come up to you and start shouting. But I have no idea if reality matches my thoughts.

 

I am looking for specifics that I can use to get in the mindset of that kind of scene, to use as a story resource. I already know that some areas are worse than others, that homophobes don't like gay people, and stuff like that. This kind of stuff is not helpful: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131014233524AATtvys

 

 

Please help? 

Edited October 15, 2013 by obscene cupcake

[Former Member]

It really depends on where you are and where your story is being placed.  In particularly hostile environments, violence can occur, and slurs would probably be flying. But most homosexual people tend to avoid the public displays of affection in those types of places.  In most places, a look of disdain and maybe something muttered under their breath is a typical reaction.  And then there are places where it's just no big deal at all.  Those of course are the best.  I would also say that people who identify as trans are probably a little worse off as well if it's well known.  But again, that depends on where you are and the people you're dealing with.

[obscene cupcake]

Yeah I felt like trans was a completely different issue entirely. That said, how have you, in the past, dealt with it if someone confronted you or if you felt like you were in an unwelcoming environment?

 

It would be placed in Wizarding London.... I have no idea what real London is like (I've heard they are accepting), but I would assume wizards would have the attitude of oh say California- a place that has a reputation of being very pro gay (when in reality it is one of the overall unfriendliest  states [on every level] of all the ones I've been to- Oregon, California, Illinois, Nevada. California is just full of really bitchy people haha.)... but a lot of people dislike it and feel like they have the moral high ground, and everyone giving different excuses for why they dislike it. A kind of 1/3 of the population is fine, 1/3 doesn't care, 1/3 hates it split. 

 

Keep in mind I don't have a story set in stone, or even a plot yet. 

 

 

OH! And how do the people around you react? I'm the kind of person who would intervene if I saw an adult berating another in public, and I thought it was getting out of hand. I respect people's rights to be total cunts, but there are lines that can be crossed (getting in someone's face close enough to spit, putting your hand on someone, or harassing a minor) (admittedly, if I was late to work I'd say fuck it, the person can deal with it on their own. I'm selfish haha). Thankfully, I've never been in that kind of situation. Are people like me common, or is it usually only people who know you that would stick up for you? DOES it ever get too far like that, or is that only in a worse case scenario kind of situation?

 

Please and thank you!

 

It really depends on where you are and where your story is being placed.  In particularly hostile environments, violence can occur, and slurs would probably be flying. But most homosexual people tend to avoid the public displays of affection in those types of places.  In most places, a look of disdain and maybe something muttered under their breath is a typical reaction.  And then there are places where it's just no big deal at all.  Those of course are the best.  I would also say that people who identify as trans are probably a little worse off as well if it's well known.  But again, that depends on where you are and the people you're dealing with.

[Cia]

One of my sisters called me a freak when she found out what I write. We don't talk much anymore and before that we called once or twice a week. Some of my family went 'uh... weird.' and ignore it, and some are supportive. It varies, but considering my first published eBook provided me with the money to take my 2 kids and go see my dying grandmother across the country before she passed last spring, I don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks in real life. I write what I want, I read what I want, and those who can't accept it can go take a jump of the closest bridge for all I care.

 

I'm not overly friendly or care much about what people think about me in RL though.  Plus I'm lucky enough to live in the Pacific Northwest where it's very much 'live and let live' for all different types of folks. There will always be some bigots, but by and large, I live in an excellent atmosphere that celebrates diversity.

[Ieshwar]

Mild ones: Name calling, snickers, glaring...

 

Strong reactions: Beat them up, kill them (No, not being dramatic here. It happened in real life here. And it's the reaction of a few friends when they talk about gays.)

 

You really need to know what kind of society you're placing your characters in. Since you're thinking about Californian-like situation, maybe you should ask gay Californians or people who had been there. Reactions on homosexuality largely depends on the society.

 

And to be truthful, I'm a bit miffed about your comments concerning 'over the top' reactions. If I can quote your comment on the other site:

 

"I am tired of reading slash stories where the characters find overt and embarrassing hate at every corner they turn to. I've decided to write a little slash ficlet with more realistic reactions from people around them. That said, what ARE realistic reactions?"

 

Having overt and embarrassing hate at every corner is realistic for certain parts of the world. Maybe not your world, but others yes. 

[Ron]

There are problems even in the most gay friendly areas of cities. I live in the South End area of Boston which is perhaps one of the most gay friendly areas of a city that is pretty tolerant as a whole. Yet we have gay folks walking home from the bars or just leaving a friends house getting attacked every so often. It has been because of nothing more outward than holding hands. Suddenly a car pulls over and people get out and beat the couple up, sometimes causing very bad injuries, and calling them all kinds of awful names as they beat them. This has happened and it was perpetrated by people who came into the city for a little fun and they were on their way home when they saw the couple. That was the reason, they thought it would be fun! Some have been followed after a nut job saw them come out of a neighborhood gay bar and have been sucker punched in the head or hit with a brick or pipe that happened to be lying on the sidewalk. The victims have reported that they were told why the person assaulted them by the assailants themselves so that's how we know the reason why. It's shitty, it doesn't happen all of the time but when it does, it scares the crap of you when you think, that could have been me.

 

Living in a known gay friendly area can be it's own problem. People looking to hate, know where to go if they feel like doing some damage. There is no rhyme or reason to the victims.

[Zombie]

It would be placed in Wizarding London.... I have no idea what real London is like (I've heard they are accepting)

 

My experience of London - assuming you're only talking about inner London, not greater London - is people just ... ignore you. Unless you smell It's one of the most cosmopolitan places on the planet so there's just no room / time for / point in anyone making an issue - they've seen it all before, many times, and will have been intimately squashed up against pretty much every kind of person on the tube. And, of course, on the tube the one thing you NEVER do is make eye contact - but who needs eyes when you're squashed up against a hot muscular man hunk? :funny:

 

OH! And how do the people around you react? I'm the kind of person who would intervene if I saw an adult berating another in public, and I thought it was getting out of hand. I respect people's rights to be total cunts, but there are lines that can be crossed (getting in someone's face close enough to spit, putting your hand on someone, or harassing a minor) (admittedly, if I was late to work I'd say fuck it, the person can deal with it on their own. I'm selfish haha). Thankfully, I've never been in that kind of situation. Are people like me common, or is it usually only people who know you that would stick up for you? DOES it ever get too far like that, or is that only in a worse case scenario kind of situation?

 

Would people intervene in London? Look, people come in all shapes and colours so there is no rule. But when those two Islamists hacked to death that off-duty soldier in London this year with machetes, and then stood around with blood dripping, they were challenged by several passers-by who completely ignored the obvious, real and immediate dangers to their own personal safety - but I'm sure they were aware of the danger. Wherever you are, people are contradictory and unpredictable so there are no "rules" - it's your job as a story teller to exploit that as you develop your characters and build a narrative

 

My own sexuality, a mostly heterosexual dominatrix, is easy enough to hide.

 

Hang on, you can't just throw out a tasty morsel like that - this person deserves a whole story!

 

[Sasha Distan]

sneering. the sort of general shocked expression when they work out what they've seen, and my least favourite - the unintelligible mutter as they walk away.

[joann414]

One of the funniest things that happened to me, and I live in the redneck, homophobic south, is.. My hubby, and I, plus several of our friends were having drinks at a small sports bar, that most adults wouldn't bring their kids in after dark or on a game day.  But since they serve food, they can.  It was six of us, and there was an obviously gay couple sitting next to us.  The two guys were holding hands, but very much absorbed in the ballgame on the tv monitor above the bar, as most of us were.  We had chatted back and forth with them off and on, and exchanged a round of drinks.  A lady starts by our table with a small child by the hand to go to the restrooms.  She notices the two men holding hands, and jerks her son to her other side, bumping our table in the process, and overturning my hubby's beer.  She apologises, but glares at the two men as she makes her way to the restroom.  When they come out a few minutes later, she puts her son on her other side and holds him glued to her side while glaring at the two men.  They just kinda shook their head, and smiled at the small child.  Of course the hubby had to be a smartass, and call out to the two guys.  "Dang, do you all have something contagious over there?  They fell out laughing and so did everyone at our table.  Of course, then the woman glared at my husband who promptly put his arm around our male friend who was sitting beside him.  We just all got a big laugh out of it, and made two great friends!  

[obscene cupcake]

One of my sisters called me a freak when she found out what I write. We don't talk much anymore and before that we called once or twice a week. Some of my family went 'uh... weird.' and ignore it, and some are supportive. It varies, but considering my first published eBook provided me with the money to take my 2 kids and go see my dying grandmother across the country before she passed last spring, I don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks in real life. I write what I want, I read what I want, and those who can't accept it can go take a jump of the closest bridge for all I care.

 

I'm not overly friendly or care much about what people think about me in RL though.  Plus I'm lucky enough to live in the Pacific Northwest where it's very much 'live and let live' for all different types of folks. There will always be some bigots, but by and large, I live in an excellent atmosphere that celebrates diversity.

I'm sorry about that. If it's any consolation, I had a similar experience with my grandma. I had a printed out picture of a nude model to use as a reference for drawing- nothing raunchy, a simple thing from mjranum's stock. My grandma freaked out, said every picture of a naked woman was porn, and therefore I was watching porn, therefore I was a rapist like the person who raped by mom as a child, therefore I raped my mom. I'm mostly straight, and for years I've been telling my family this, but I've always had the feeling that they thought I would turn out lesbian or bisexual. Nonetheless, since I proclaim to like cock and I really do, this was beyond annoying and hurtful.

 

I'm glad you were able to see your grandma in time.

 

 

Mild ones: Name calling, snickers, glaring...

 

Strong reactions: Beat them up, kill them (No, not being dramatic here. It happened in real life here. And it's the reaction of a few friends when they talk about gays.)

 

You really need to know what kind of society you're placing your characters in. Since you're thinking about Californian-like situation, maybe you should ask gay Californians or people who had been there. Reactions on homosexuality largely depends on the society.

 

And to be truthful, I'm a bit miffed about your comments concerning 'over the top' reactions. If I can quote your comment on the other site:

 

"I am tired of reading slash stories where the characters find overt and embarrassing hate at every corner they turn to. I've decided to write a little slash ficlet with more realistic reactions from people around them. That said, what ARE realistic reactions?"

 

Having overt and embarrassing hate at every corner is realistic for certain parts of the world. Maybe not your world, but others yes. 

 

 

That's really your problem then. If you really think that bad writing doesn't exist then you must have incredible luck when picking out stories. Fanfiction slash has both some of the best and worst writing out there. The reason for the worst is obvious: a lot of it is written by horny 14 year olds of both sexes with no real life experience or knowledge on how to write a good book. 

 

Please don't go looking for a fight where there is none. I'm too old for those kinds of games. I don't play them. 

 

 

There are problems even in the most gay friendly areas of cities. I live in the South End area of Boston which is perhaps one of the most gay friendly areas of a city that is pretty tolerant as a whole. Yet we have gay folks walking home from the bars or just leaving a friends house getting attacked every so often. It has been because of nothing more outward than holding hands. Suddenly a car pulls over and people get out and beat the couple up, sometimes causing very bad injuries, and calling them all kinds of awful names as they beat them. This has happened and it was perpetrated by people who came into the city for a little fun and they were on their way home when they saw the couple. That was the reason, they thought it would be fun! Some have been followed after a nut job saw them come out of a neighborhood gay bar and have been sucker punched in the head or hit with a brick or pipe that happened to be lying on the sidewalk. The victims have reported that they were told why the person assaulted them by the assailants themselves so that's how we know the reason why. It's shitty, it doesn't happen all of the time but when it does, it scares the crap of you when you think, that could have been me.

 

Living in a known gay friendly area can be it's own problem. People looking to hate, know where to go if they feel like doing some damage. There is no rhyme or reason to the victims.

I might be able to use this. I remember a story about a man who was part of a cult/self proclaimed vigilante group. The leader told the man to go to a church in the gay part of town and use a brief case to blow people up. The man went to a church, saw people praising his god, realized they were human... and turned himself in instead. 

 

It would be a nice touch of irony if the boys go to a place specifically to be able to walk together in public holding hands... and one of them ends up hurt. Cue angst and talk about suppressing who you are by the healthy one. All of it would become real for him. He'd have realized there was homophobia before but treated it like a game. And the one that was hurt would be just standing there like "Really? Really? I just got beat up and you are having some kind of crisis? How selfish. Yes things like this exist but it only shows how imperative it is for us to live a happy normal life despite that" And of course they wouldn't be able to move on until each person is able to understand the thought process of their lover. 

 

: D I dunno, I dunno, but it's something to consider.

 

 

My experience of London - assuming you're only talking about inner London, not greater London - is people just ... ignore you. Unless you smell   It's one of the most cosmopolitan places on the planet so there's just no room / time for / point in anyone making an issue - they've seen it all before, many times, and will have been intimately squashed up against pretty much every kind of person on the tube. And, of course, on the tube the one thing you NEVER do is make eye contact - but who needs eyes when you're squashed up against a hot muscular man hunk?   

 

 

Would people intervene in London? Look, people come in all shapes and colours so there is no rule. But when those two Islamists hacked to death that off-duty soldier in London this year with machetes, and then stood around with blood dripping, they were challenged by several passers-by who completely ignored the obvious, real and immediate dangers to their own personal safety - but I'm sure they were aware of the danger. Wherever you are, people are contradictory and unpredictable so there are no "rules" - it's your job as a story teller to exploit that as you develop your characters and build a narrative 

 

 

Hang on, you can't just throw out a tasty morsel like that - this person deserves a whole story! 

 

XD You can ask me in pms, but I don't really want to derail the thread going into my own sexuality. Which is a complicated piece of work. 

 

I didn't realize people had confronted them. In fact I ignored the story because I was disgusted 1. with the waste of the deaths 2. With the thought that no one confronted them.

 

I suppose how people around the situation react is one of those things that is also very location based. If someone tried something in Lake View or Boy's Town in Chicago then there would probably be people confronting them. If someone tried something in the southside peopple would probably be too afraid of getting hurt to stand up for someone. And if someone tried something around people who were older, the responses would probably be way different.

 

"but who needs eyes when you're squashed up against a hot muscular man hunk?" Why does that sound so freaking cute? Here you are, scrunched up against everyone else who is miserable because they have to get to work and it's 7am and they want to be in bed... And then there's you. A 36 year old man with a small smile on his lips, glee inside him, just perving out. XD 

 

 

 

sneering. the sort of general shocked expression when they work out what they've seen, and my least favourite - the unintelligible mutter as they walk away.

 

Thanks this is also helpful, especially the bit about the shocked epression. I need to get in the minds of my antagonists after all. And the shocked expression tells me that for some people homosexuality and bisexuality wasn't real for them- it was something they heard of on tv but that they were never really confronted with. It also reminds me of my first trip to a dungeon in Chicago and how I stared at everyone with fish eyes. Haha. 

 

As for the muttering... why does it bother you? I think it would amuse me. Is it because you wish they had the guts to actual but their anger into thoughts, and therefore realize  their idiocy? Or am I projecting my own thoughts onto you?

 

 

One of the funniest things that happened to me, and I live in the redneck, homophobic south, is.. My hubby, and I, plus several of our friends were having drinks at a small sports bar, that most adults wouldn't bring their kids in after dark or on a game day.  But since they serve food, they can.  It was six of us, and there was an obviously gay couple sitting next to us.  The two guys were holding hands, but very much absorbed in the ballgame on the tv monitor above the bar, as most of us were.  We had chatted back and forth with them off and on, and exchanged a round of drinks.  A lady starts by our table with a small child by the hand to go to the restrooms.  She notices the two men holding hands, and jerks her son to her other side, bumping our table in the process, and overturning my hubby's beer.  She apologises, but glares at the two men as she makes her way to the restroom.  When they come out a few minutes later, she puts her son on her other side and holds him glued to her side while glaring at the two men.  They just kinda shook their head, and smiled at the small child.  Of course the hubby had to be a smartass, and call out to the two guys.  "Dang, do you all have something contagious over there?  They fell out laughing and so did everyone at our table.  Of course, then the woman glared at my husband who promptly put his arm around our male friend who was sitting beside him.  We just all got a big laugh out of it, and made two great friends!    

This is great stuff. would you say this kind of confidence comes with age, or is it more personality based? I would enjoy having one of my characters act that way.

 

In fact a plot is starting to develop, slowly, in my mind. 

 

Sirius and Remus. Sirius is the confidant one for whom (who? Idfk) the sneers never seem to bother him, and there would probably be a scene like the one you are describing. Where someone tries to goggle at them, and Sirius makes them look like a fool and just seems entertained.

 

Remus is more weary about doing things in public. Because of his being a werewolf he already knows just how cruel people can be, and already has the knowledge that some people would see him dead for no other reason his being who and what he is. But because he has a disease which caused him to become a murderer, morally he never felt any worry about whether or not it was right or wrong to be gay. When compared with your existence being a danger to other's around the full moon, fucking someone who has a dick in the ass doesn't seem to matter, after all.

 

 He knew that it never hurt anyone, it was just sex, so he was fine with it. Still he was weary about doing things in public because he didn't want to be hurt, and thus is drawn to how confidant Sirius is, not realizing it is in part ignorance (after all Sirius grew up a pureblood of a dark family, and therefore has never had anyone judge him for who he is, and the only thing they did judge him for- being light- had them be so obviously in the wrong that he felt justified in acting like a Bad Boy and rebelling because of it. Their bigotry over light and dark made him loose respect for them, and because light wizards were more numerous than dark, he got only positive feedback about his actions.)

 

So Sirius takes Remus to a gay wizarding community so that they can hold hands and do what they want in public without being judged... Only some people go to the neighborhood specifically to hunt out gay people.... The people go out too late at night though and are having trouble finding people to hurt. Then they see teenage (adult?) Sirius and Remus kissing. Sirius goes inside a building to buy something. Because he is a pureblood they don't dare beat him up as even if he is estranged his family, they would retaliate his being hurt. However they know that his family disproves of him, and wouldn't retaliate if they beat up his boyfriend (assuming there is some wizarding version of E! news or gossip columns and this is common knowledge).

 

So they all take on Remus, who tired from the full moon, doesn't put up much of a fight.

 

Cue a scene where Remus is in the hospital and Sirius is freaking out, realizing for the first time that there are consequences for their actions and that just by being himself he is putting his own skin and Remus's skin on the line. He has tasted mortality for the first time, via his boyfriend. He freaks out. Get's scared. Says that they should break up. Remus becomes furious. This whole time he knew what the risk was to his person, and he still took it. Yet Sirius's reactions indicate he didn't know the risks, so he wasn't giving as much of himself to the relationship as Remus was. After all, as soon as he finds out about the danger he wants to chicken out. The usually timid and cautious Remus realizes he feels no shame in being gay at all, and finds this lights a fire under his ass, and makes him more determined to not give a fuck about other people, but live his life the way he wants.

 

Thus the two lovers are at odds. And somehow the plot will need to throw things at them so that they can resolve this. 

 

 

 

I dunno I dunno.... this is all speculation and thoughts of a possible plot....

Edited October 15, 2013 by obscene cupcake

[Sasha Distan]

Thanks this is also helpful, especially the bit about the shocked epression. I need to get in the minds of my antagonists after all. And the shocked expression tells me that for some people homosexuality and bisexuality wasn't real for them- it was something they heard of on tv but that they were never really confronted with. It also reminds me of my first trip to a dungeon in Chicago and how I stared at everyone with fish eyes. Haha. 

 

As for the muttering... why does it bother you? I think it would amuse me. Is it because you wish they had the guts to actual but their anger into thoughts, and therefore realize  their idiocy? Or am I projecting my own thoughts onto you?

 

 

Welcome.

The muttering annoys me, because i'm a big believer in telling people what i think of them - to their face. i expect people to be the same with me. reading your reply i was reminded of being there when a female  friend of mind mention to another very straight female "friend"  that she thought there were other women who were hot. it was like the straight girl just couldn't cope with the idea that someone she knew could possibly think this way. it was very surreal.

Queen Victoria didn't outlaw lesbianism because she refused to believe that such a thing could exist, and it was a bit like that.

 

Also, bear in mind the "friendly face of homophobia" and i have friends who fall into this category. nice, in principle, tolerant in theory, but when it comes down to either doing/saying something or actually meeting the boyfriend etc offer unthinking bigoted viewpoints. these are the type of people who will say "that's so gay" or "You're such a fag" and yet proclaim to be understanding. just food for thought.

[obscene cupcake]

Welcome.

The muttering annoys me, because i'm a big believer in telling people what i think of them - to their face. i expect people to be the same with me. reading your reply i was reminded of being there when a female  friend of mind mention to another very straight female "friend"  that she thought there were other women who were hot. it was like the straight girl just couldn't cope with the idea that someone she knew could possibly think this way. it was very surreal.

Queen Victoria didn't outlaw lesbianism because she refused to believe that such a thing could exist, and it was a bit like that.

 

Also, bear in mind the "friendly face of homophobia" and i have friends who fall into this category. nice, in principle, tolerant in theory, but when it comes down to either doing/saying something or actually meeting the boyfriend etc offer unthinking bigoted viewpoints. these are the type of people who will say "that's so gay" or "You're such a fag" and yet proclaim to be understanding. just food for thought.

I didn't think of that at all, that's a great thing to bring up. Thanks. Oh I can do so much with that information. I know people like that. Or people who disguise their intolerance under the guise of caring about people. "I don't hate lesbians. I just think they are confused. They use dildo's you know. If they like women, why do they use something that looks like a dick?" "I assume it's because they like the fric-" "NOnonono. They are confused." - conversation I had once with my grandma. I let it drop. she still thinks she should be able to use the N word (not Negro. The other one) to describe black people because "when I was a kid it was perfectly fine to use that word, it was accepted." When she found out my boyfriend was black, she didn't ask what job he had, just started telling me immediately that the army offered good career opportunities. Lovely woman. 

 

 

And then of course there are the people who think they being accepting when they are simply creating a new stereotype. EX in college I went to an Alliance meeting in college with two other girls because... the leader of the group, a vocal girl, went on about wanting a "gay best friend." My close friend, the other girl, went along with it. (Note that this girl now claims she has a gay best friend). I didn't say anything at all, but had the thought "Yeah I'd like a stereotypical best friend too. Too bad people are human and don't follow stereotypes and have their own problems and personalities."

 

Actually, we ended up going to an after party with a few of the people, which caused me to never go to an Alliance meeting again. One of these people was the head of the Alliance group. He didn't offer us any of the Jellow shots they were all enjoying Not a single one... The "leader" of our group took one anyways, and got glared.

 

We played a game where we put questions on pieces of paper in a hat and passed them around. I pulled out the question "how many people have you had sex with." I thought about fucking a guy with a strap on, which would probably constitute sex, and wondered how they would react if I alluded to that. "What constitutes sex," I asked. The guy who ran the alliance put his freaking nose in the air, like some preppy cartoon character, and said in this voice that implied I was an idiot "straight people can only have sex one way."

 

Snickers all around. High school all over again. I wanted to punch his smug little face in. 

 

Ironically, it wouldn't have mattered. The answer still would have been one. When I answered that, the man smirked even more. 

 

I don't need to say I never went to an alliance meeting with those other two girl's after that. I cannot stand judgmental people or people who try to look better themselves at the expense of others. 

 

How did I get on this story? Haha. 

[Sasha Distan]

i am so looking forwards to whatever it is you end up writing.... *giggles with mirthful glee*

[Percy]

Here are a few examples I’ve witnessed. All these are within the last decade.

 

In the Castro in San Francisco, I was walking with my boyfriend, holding hands, and had some guy forcefully brush past us and the other gay couples on the sidewalk saying “Disgusting!” half under his breath as he went. This one was sort of funny because he was walking so fast that he was practically running to get away –handholding being so threatening, ya know.

 

In Boston’s South End (the city’s gay district), these two guys were standing in line outside a restaurant and gave each other kiss. It was just a “Hi, how was your day?” peck on the cheek. This woman who had been sitting in a parked car on the street got out and worked herself into hysterics over it. She was screaming that that was against God and the children in the neighborhood would burn in hell if they saw that and all sorts of other crazy things. She was crying and wailing invectives at the whole row of us waiting to eat dinner. Eventually she walked on down the street, yelling as she went.

 

Down in Providence, RI a group of us were at an outdoor festival along the river. We were sitting up on an embankment. All of us were queer, but there was only one couple, a lesbian couple, who were sitting with us. One of the girls was leaning back against her girlfriend, who had her arms wrapped around her. We were just watching the festival activities on the river. These two older couples (straight) were passing by on the path below us when they suddenly circled back and marched up the embankment to where we were sitting. One of the women, who I took to be in her ‘50s, glared at the girlfriends and sneered, “Is everyone having a good time here?”

 

They said nothing, didn’t even look at her. She looked around at the rest of us with absolute contempt. Finally one of the older guys in our group told her we were just here to watch the festival like everyone else. She continued to glare at us until the man and the other couple with her pulled her away.  This one was pretty funny too because she was so clearly shocked to find gays among her.  We were right at this event that everyone else goes to...the same one she herself was at!

 

But the saddest incident happened to me at our state fair in Sacramento, California a couple years ago. I have a good friend who is blind and he was using my arm for guidance through the crowds. I’m gay and my blind friend is straight. This boy, maybe 8 or 9, points at us and yells, “That’s not family values!”

 

The boy’s mother was absolutely mortified as well she should be. Everyone in the vicinity looked at me and my friend and then quickly looked away.  Tragic, really, that this child saw what he perceived as evil in a situation that was clearly an act of kindness. A shameful statement on parenting when you’ve taken the time to school your child in hatred instead of compassion.  The mother jerked her child away and looked like she was scolding him, but the problem lay with her, not him.

 

I’ve thought about that incident since and it always makes me sad.  I asked my blind friend if he got that a lot.  He said that it does happen, not often, but it wasn’t the first time he’d encountered such ignorance.

[obscene cupcake]

i am so looking forwards to whatever it is you end up writing.... *giggles with mirthful glee*

 

Don't expect anything good. I'm new to writing. This'll be my first story. But I've read more books than you can count!

 

Here are a few examples I’ve witnessed. All these are within the last decade.

 

In the Castro in San Francisco, I was walking with my boyfriend, holding hands, and had some guy forcefully brush past us and the other gay couples on the sidewalk saying “Disgusting!” half under his breath as he went. This one was sort of funny because he was walking so fast that he was practically running to get away –handholding being so threatening, ya know.

 

In Boston’s South End (the city’s gay district), these two guys were standing in line outside a restaurant and gave each other kiss. It was just a “Hi, how was your day?” peck on the cheek. This woman who had been sitting in a parked car on the street got out and worked herself into hysterics over it. She was screaming that that was against God and the children in the neighborhood would burn in hell if they saw that and all sorts of other crazy things. She was crying and wailing invectives at the whole row of us waiting to eat dinner. Eventually she walked on down the street, yelling as she went.

 

Down in Providence, RI a group of us were at an outdoor festival along the river. We were sitting up on an embankment. All of us were queer, but there was only one couple, a lesbian couple, who were sitting with us. One of the girls was leaning back against her girlfriend, who had her arms wrapped around her. We were just watching the festival activities on the river. These two older couples (straight) were passing by on the path below us when they suddenly circled back and marched up the embankment to where we were sitting. One of the women, who I took to be in her ‘50s, glared at the girlfriends and sneered, “Is everyone having a good time here?”

 

They said nothing, didn’t even look at her. She looked around at the rest of us with absolute contempt. Finally one of the older guys in our group told her we were just here to watch the festival like everyone else. She continued to glare at us until the man and the other couple with her pulled her away.  This one was pretty funny too because she was so clearly shocked to find gays among her.  We were right at this event that everyone else goes to...the same one she herself was at!

 

But the saddest incident happened to me at our state fair in Sacramento, California a couple years ago. I have a good friend who is blind and he was using my arm for guidance through the crowds. I’m gay and my blind friend is straight. This boy, maybe 8 or 9, points at us and yells, “That’s not family values!”

 

The boy’s mother was absolutely mortified as well she should be. Everyone in the vicinity looked at me and my friend and then quickly looked away.  Tragic, really, that this child saw what he perceived as evil in a situation that was clearly an act of kindness. A shameful statement on parenting when you’ve taken the time to school your child in hatred instead of compassion.  The mother jerked her child away and looked like she was scolding him, but the problem lay with her, not him.

 

I’ve thought about that incident since and it always makes me sad.  I asked my blind friend if he got that a lot.  He said that it does happen, not often, but it wasn’t the first time he’d encountered such ignorance.

 

 

I'm sorry you had to witness that. ): Hopefully it made the little boy realize his mom was full of shit. This boy is just one of millions, though. 

[Former Member]

I think the important thing would be knowing that adversity exists no matter where you are and how open and accepting any one community is.  There are always going to be gay bashers no matter where you go.  Some are worse than others.  In Jamaica, trans and homosexual people are persecuted mercilessly, as well as in Russia, most of Africa, and the Middle East.  In the US and other Western countries, those in the LGBT community are still persecuted, just in smaller numbers.  In most Western countries there are laws in place to prevent hate crimes.  Unfortunately, Western countries aren't the majority and much of the world either has laws against homosexuality or do not have laws in place that protect gays against persecution.

 

Best advice would be (and this is really for any writer ) is to know your subject matter.  Much luck.

[carringtonrj]

What kind of story are you writing? Will you be using your "heterosexual dominatrix" experiences somehow, because that sounds like something new to throw into the mix. I think it's important to be honest and expose the mistreatment that people face because of their sexuality but it's also important to celebrate their lives as being full of happiness like anyone's can be. My sense is that things are constant changing for the better in terms of attitudes to LGBT identities, but I know it's very tough for some people still. Look forward to seeing your story.

[Zombie]

This thread is about how homophobes react to gays. If you've not seen it, Sasha's thread on Stephen Fry's two TV docs shown this week is timely. These two programmes - currently available on Youtube - reveal just how extreme, shocking and widespread homophobic reactions can be in countries across the world

https://www.gayauthors.org/forums/topic/37815-out-there/#entry437089

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

Edited October 17, 2013 by Zombie

[obscene cupcake]

This thread is about how homophobes react to gays. If you've not seen it, Sasha's thread on Stephen Fry's two TV docs shown this week is timely. These two programmes - currently available on Youtube - reveal just how extreme, shocking and widespread homophobic reactions can be in countries across the world

 

https://www.gayauthors.org/forums/topic/37815-out-there/#entry437089

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

 

I will definitely check it out, thank you for the source. 

[JamesSavik]

Growing up in 70s Mississippi I've seen a lot of shit. 

 

I didn't mean to be. In fact I was mortified to be outed on my 13th birthday by a Mormon religious fanatic scoutmaster that discovered some of the boys in his troop were fooling around and no sodomites were welcome in his troop. This is another story- an old story I've told until I'm sick of it. It's not really the point. It's what happened afterwards.

 

The first reaction was violence. People who I had been cool with for years decided that it would be a good idea to punch me. It wasn't a very good idea because I punched back- hard. Before long I was punching first just in case. You might say I was punch drunk. I was in trouble fighting before the first bell of the first day of 7th grade. 

 

This was somewhat made better my a football coach to sort of took me under his wing. He had played linebacker in college and for a while in the pros. I got him for home room and he sort of looked after me. Back then every grade had 3 groups: I started out in group 1. A students, high achievers and such. Group 2 were average and Group 3... well thanks for playing. I was in group 4. It was more or less the 70s version of special ed.

 

The Coach knew what he was doing. I taught that class as much as he did. There were kids in that class that couldn't read because nobody ever bothered to take the time to teach them. There were kids in that class that were small and immature for their age. There were a few that were very, very slow. It was good for me and them but I missed a lot not being in a regular group. I ended up protecting a lot of those kids from bullying and harassment because I knew just how it felt.

 

I won some hearts and minds that year. It helped later on.

 

The second reaction was abandonment. Kids that I had known for years, some I had been close to, were just suddenly gone. It played really ugly games with my head. I wouldn't treat a rabid dog that way. I'd shoot the poor bastard to end his suffering. I tried out a lot of things for a while and settled on that psycho crazy kid that will fight anybody because he just doesn't care. It was kind of a self defense thing. The more desperate the fight I got in, the dirtier I fought it. If I couldn't win, I'd at least make it hurt like hell. I took some rather severe beatings that way but nobody came back for seconds.

 

Fighting and football were a way I could let some of the anger out. And I was one very, very fucking angry kid. I didn't understand. I thought hey it's Ok. It'll get better, I'll out last the bullshit but the bullshit never seemed to stop. The more bullshit that came my way, and believe me, there was plenty, the meaner and angrier I got.

 

It gave me a power of a sort. I would get in a sort of berserk rage. I would get so high on adrenalin that I didn't really feel pain and I was a big strong kid to start with.

 

The third reaction was balkanization. The meaning of that is sort of like its meaning in diplomacy. To balkanize a country, you cut it off from it's allies. People that I did try to make friends with were harassed because of it. What do you want with that big queer? He must give great head because that's all they are good for. The middle school bully logic probably hasn't changed much over the years.

 

The fourth reaction was instant enemies. There were people that, upon learning that I was gay, would immediately decide that I was some sort of enemy and declare war. If they couldn't beat my ass (that was always the first choice), harassment was next. Then causing whatever trouble that they could think of to cause for me. The really nasty ones were always behind my back. Some I didn't even know by name. They just decided that I was there for them to hate and they were obliged to mess with me in any way they could.

 

The fifth reaction was trying to save my soul. Some of the same people that were tormenting me were trying to save my soul. Don't you know that you make Jesus sad? For a while I listened to them but it was obvious that they didn't have the first clue about what they were talking about. To them homosexuality was like a nasty hobby. If I just decide to give it up that everything would be groovy and Jesus wouldn't be sad anymore. It didn't take long for it to get on my nerves. Of course I was Satan's own spawn when I politely asked them to give it a rest and then I was obviously possessed when I told them in explicit detail where to stuff their bible.

 

The sixth reaction was exile. There was no place for me in polite society. The nice cliques of kids in middle and high school: I didn't fit in any of them. They didn't want me and I didn't want them. The only people I could really connect with were fellow outcasts. Gay- not so much. Back them people were so far in the closets they were finding Christmas presents for future generation. The other outcasts were druggies, thugs, and other assorted petty criminals. Others were poor kids from single parent households. Kids with divorced parents that were "disturbed".  Kids whose parents were junkies and lived with their grandparents. It might sound corny but we were no shit Outsiders (to borrow a phrase from Hinton).

 

Anyway... It's late and I had been meaning to answer this thread. The information is dated of course. The country isn't like this anymore thank God. Or at least, I hope it isn't.

Edited October 20, 2013 by jamessavik

[TetRefine]

I never experienced any of the shit James went through, luckily, but I've witnessed and experienced a few instances of blatant homophobia in my short 21 years.

 

The first one that really sticks out in my mind is my sophomore year of high school. I grew up in a small, rural suburb in New Hampshire. Now you'd think being in New England, it would be very accepting of LGBT people, but ignorance is very common outside the major cities of the Northeast. There was this one kid on our football team, and my sophomore year he came out as bisexual. Why he thought that was a good idea I'll never know, but it happened. This kid was also a bit socially awkward which only fed the fire that was to come. Once it became known he was bisexual, the harassment came full bore and never let up from all directions. Guys would snap him in the ass with wet towels in the locker room, called him a fag, and actively shun him at team dinners, on bus rides to and from games, and hanging out on weekends. I felt so bad for him, but I was so scared of being labeled a homo if I stood up for him that I did nothing and ignored it. The crazy thing is, he stuck it out that year, his junior year, and his senior year, and went on to get into MIT where he's already graduated and last I heard had gotten a job with Oracle. Now you'd think that because it was New England this shit wouldn't happen, but it was commonplace there and still is.

 

The other instance that really sticks out in my mind happened a couple weeks ago. My boyfriend and I had gone out to dinner in Philadelphia and decided to walk afterwards. We ended up sitting down in a park in the Rittenhouse Square neighborhood, which is right next to the Gayborhood in Center City, Philadelphia. Like the 20 or so other couples in the park, we were just sitting on a bench talking and holding hands. This older black guy walks by us slowly and glares at us with a death stare making it obvious he disapproves of us being gay. When I realized what he was doing I gave him an equally hard death stare right back until he looked away. When we left the park 20 minutes later he was standing by the entrance and shouted something about how gay people are all sinners and are going to hell. I ignored him.

 

My point is, these two stories took place in one of the most tolerant and accepting places in the United States, so it can happen anywhere. This crap isn't just limited to the backcountry South or rural Midwest. 

[hh5]

Gosh is Mississippi the only place to find this kind of action??? Where else had this 32 years ago or more?

Growing up in 70s Mississippi I've seen a lot of shit. 

 

[Thorn Wilde]

I came out as bi to classmates at a party when I was 15 or so. I was drunk at the time and somehow thought this was a good idea. The following Monday, I was confronted by a couple of the people who had been there, who asked me, 'So, what you said about being bisexual... That was just a joke, right?'

 

I remember just kind of sitting there for a couple of seconds, not sure what to say, and then I was like, 'Yeah, yeah. I was just kidding.' That was all the backlash I got in school, but then I did go back in the closet two days after I'd come out. It bears mentioning that I went to Catholic school, but the kids who confronted me weren't Catholic (neither am I; it was a good school, and I needed somewhere to transfer to when I was being bullied--my city had weird rules on school transfers back then and private school was the quickest and safest option). The feeling of lying again when you've finally stopped lying, though... Does all kinds of bad shit to a person.

 

It can be weird sometimes, identifying as bi (I'm really in the camp that prefers to refer to themselves as 'pansexual' because we don't believe in a gender binary, but I'll keep it simple). There are all kinds of strange attitudes, both from straight people and gay people. One common one is that we're 'greedy'. That we just want to be able to shag everyone. That we're promiscuous or whatever. Which is funny to me, because I have always been the monogamous type.

 

There are religious straight people who show disdain because they feel like we have a choice. Since we're into both, we should just be able to choose to be with the opposite sex, right? In other words, we're sinning on purpose, which makes us worse than gay people who just can't help themselves. 

 

In the opposite camp, there are gay people who either protest that we're really straight and just trying to be interesting (if we're primarily or currently dating people of the opposite sex) or that we're really gay and just playing it safe (if we're primarily or currently dating people of the same sex). For the most part, a lot of gay people seem to ignore the B in LGBT. Of course, a lot of gay people ignore the T in LGBT as well. 

 

In more intimate relationships, if you date people who are straight or gay, you often end up with a lot of insecurity. A guy will always be wondering if you wouldn't rather be with a girl, and a girl will always be wondering if you wouldn't rather be with a guy. Which makes for a lot of drama. The result of that is that a lot of people who identify as bi(or pan)sexual end up with other people who identify as the same. It just makes it all a lot easier. And it means that you can both ogle the same celebrities on TV without anybody getting jealous.

[Ron]

There are religious straight people who show disdain because they feel like we have a choice. Since we're into both, we should just be able to choose to be with the opposite sex, right? In other words, we're sinning on purpose, which makes us worse than gay people who just can't help themselves. 

 

This is a new idea to me. I never would have thought of the whole sinning on purpose angle. Though, sadly it doesn't surprise me.

[AceKebabs]

Where I come from..you'd probably be stoned to death..it sucks but it's true.gay people had been receiving dead threats and such. im ashamed but there's nothing anyone can do..I just feel bad for those who are 'outed' forcefully and threatened. .but these days im happy to say that people are becoming more open minded and brave..but being gay is still against the law tho