Poor Man's Son

[rjo]

Thanks for not killing off JP. I was pretty sure you wouldn't but with all the twists and turns you never know. I also worried if Gathan and Kristin wouldn't get out of Claremont unharassed. I am glad they did. Adding Cole to the picture is a new twist also. I can only guess what adventures they will have along the way. Great chapter. I can't wait to see what will happen next.

Edited August 15, 2011 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

The irony to Will's speech is that the Schluters wouldn't have nearly been so rich if they HADN'T profited off the surburban sprawl of Alameda County in the 1970's. Suburban sprawl is of course a contributing factor to gas use, which contributes to why we have to drill in increasingly dangerous areas. It really is connected in a circle, a loop that never ends.

Edited August 15, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

The irony to Will's speech is that the Schluters wouldn't have nearly been so rich if they HADN'T profited off the surburban sprawl of Alameda County in the 1970's. Suburban sprawl is of course a contributing factor to gas use, which contributes to why we have to drill in increasingly dangerous areas. It really is connected in a circle, a loop that never ends.

 

Actually, Stef invested most of his money in Santa Clara County, and possibly San Mateo County.

 

Will's being a good capitalist here. He isn't trying to abolish offshore drilling, he's just saying he doesn't want to invest in it. He's voting with his dollars.

[methodwriter85]

Okay. That's fine. Still, the point remains. I wonder if Stefan's going to invest in the 2000's Orange County real estate boom. That probably would have seemed like a no-brainer at the time.

 

I like that you're getting someone who cares more about the environment. We haven't really had that much in terms of environmental concerns brought up yet, and given the kind of early 90's politically correct TV shows that these kids grew up with, it makes sense that they'd start bringing that kind of thing up. Kids develop their social schema according to the culture they grow up in, and stuff like Captain Planet, Pocohantas, and Fern Gully was a part of it.

 

I mean this is seriously what we grew up with:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiEf2W8RwO0&feature=related

 

"Never Talk To Strangers", Ruff McGruff Taking A Bite out Crime, D.A.R.E., and "Don't Litter" were big slogans/campaigns for the child of the early 90's. We were also told that we needed to have Higher Self-Esteem and Celebrate Diversity.

Edited August 15, 2011 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

One thing I would like to point out, when Will gets to the hospital and sees the family gathered waiting for the news. He tells us some very interesting things about how each person is reacting. Two reactions come across the most unique, Brad regresses into that young boy maybe at the moment he first landed on JP's door step. And then there is Stef. who is grim yes, but holding it together. JP most of these times helps hold Stef together. Now Stef must be the rock for the others.

 

Just one question: where are Matt and Wade? It is odd that they aren't present. Either are Marie and Courtney. John is there. In the last few stories JP has kind of recessed into the background. It is good to see how much he means to each of the members of his family.

 

One last thing. It seems like Will and JP are closer than I thought they were.

Edited August 15, 2011 by rjo

[methodwriter85]

You got to remember that not every possible thing can be elaborated on, not with the hundreds of characters that exist in this universe. If Mark accounted for every single character in every single scene, we'd have much, much longer chapters.

 

You also have to remember that Will's only really been more than a background character since we got to Millenium in 1999. That means the years of 1986 to 1998 aren't really covered much in Will's life. 1987 to 1990; 1992 to 1994, and '96-'97 aren't covered, period. So there's ton of grandfather/grandson bonding that presumedly happened when Will wasn't a focus or in years that weren't covered.

 

1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1975, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, and 1997....lots of things could have happened in these years that we never saw. That is what is a bonus about when Mark has multiple year skips- we get to try and figure out what's changed in the family, and why things are different.

 

I imagine Stefan and JP having a crazy experience in Studio 54 in 1977. God, '77 was such a crazy year.

Edited August 15, 2011 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

Jeremy, I was not critizing Mark or the story in any way. I was just pointing out things which I found unusual from the response I thought they would have. Mark does a great job of weaving the different characters and story lines together. As for Will coming out of the background. He is one of my favorite characters as I believe he is yours. He and Gathan, Matt are great representives of their generation. The reason I was surprised JP and Will had as close relationship is that JP lives in Palo Alto and Will is in Malibu. JP is not the most open person. Don't get me wrong I am very happy they are so close.

 

On another note, when Mark started The Box not only did he given us and Stef his father, Steven but also showed us a deeper understanding of JP, Marie, Jack, Jim and Tonto. Now we as readers understand why the characters do what they did and why. To me it made their lives more real. Those missing years were priceless. (Hint for more stories in future.)

[methodwriter85]

I wouldn't say Will's my favorite character. That would be JJ, but that's because he's my namesake and my birthdate-sake, and there are ways in which JJ is like me that it scares me at times. LOL. Will is a great character, though- I like that you see how he's like Brad, but also how much he's not like Brad at all. I can't see him being all that bowled over by a 500k cufflinks, for example. Or driving a flashy sports car, either. He seems a bit more grounded and down-to-Earth than Brad is. I think he at 22 would be more likely to take a love interest on a camping trip to Yosemite than he would to exotic locations the way Brad does/did. I like that a lot- it keeps things from being stale to have some fundamental differences between Generation 3 and Generation 4.

[Canuk]

sorry but if I was choosing between a partner who offered me 500k cufflinks, holidays in exotic places and a sportscar VS the one who wanted to take me hiking in Yosemite..... yosemite-boy wouldn't even get a look-in!!!

 

perhaps because I am closer to Brad's age (and intellectual depth?) than I am to Will......

[methodwriter85]

Well, it's not that Will couldn't, but it's more that it's not all that appealing to him. He's more of a low-key kind of guy than a flashy rich kid. Which is a good thing, because we don't really need a Brad II, do we? Will's just enough like Brad that we can see they're father and son, but different enough that he feels like his own person. And we already have JJ as the flashy couture hound so that will still be nicely represented for this generation.

 

I'm also very excited that Harvard-Westlake is the kind of private school that actually forces all of their students to do lunch room duty and the like. It seems like they very much want to try and keep their kids as grounded as possible, which I really like. It fits very much into the Crampton/Schluter ideal of social responsibiltiy, noblesse oblige, and being able to relate to people from the blue-collar class.

[Matthew k]

Ick, John is 12 at this point of the story remember?

 

As for Gathan's attitude towards his future father-in-law, let's review from a different perspective:

 

1) July 4 Gathan was put down by high-society Mrs. Finch because she thought he was not good enough.

 

(What does that have to do with Gathan's attitude towards his future father-in-law?)

 

2) July 11 Gathan was shot by someone who thought Brad and Stef was not good enough for Texas.

 

(What does that have to do with Gathan's attitude towards his future father-in-law?)

 

3) July 18 Loser Josh Grover attempts to put down Gathan.

 

(What does that have to do with Gathan's attitude towards his future father-in-law?)

 

4) July 19 Gathan was un-adopted by Wally and Clara (mostly Clara)

(What does that have to do with Gathan's attitude towards his future father-in-law?)

 

5) July 23 Brad and Will gets kidnapped in France

 

(What does that have to do with Gathan's attitude towards his future father-in-law?)

 

6) July 25 Kristen almost gets herself killed on a doomed Concord Flight.

 

(THAT was Gathan's fault)

 

7) July 28 Gathan gets arrested under trumped up charges of rape.

 

(Okay, there is the FIRST thing that could explain Gathan's attitude towards his future father-in-law)

 

8) Aug 2 --> Dinner with Mr. H and his "Let me explain it to you as if you are a moron" attitude....

 

(Show me textually where Mr. Hendrickson used a "as if you are a moron" attitude)

 

Of course, this brief time line does not include moving out of Wally and Clara's house, giving up his old truck, putting up with closet case Zach, outing himself towards Kristin, and finding out Kristin is telling everyone they are getting married.

 

(What does ANY OF THAT that have to do with Gathan's attitude towards his future father-in-law?)

 

And you want to know why Gathan was not more respectful towards Mr. H???

 

(Yes, I do)

 

 

Not sure what you are like, but I treat people based on how they treat me in general. If Bob tells me I am a dick, I don't give Ralph attitude.

 

My challenge has been for anyone to show me textually where Mr. Hendrickson flipped Gathan shit in his apology. I quoted text and showed where everything pointed to Mr. Hendrickson being sincere.

 

Up until Kristin almost dying in Paris, the Hendricksons had been pretty lenient.

 

I think it was chicken shit of Gathan to drop Kristin off at her parents and not go with her to face the music. Maybe if the Hendricksons had vented their rage then, there would have been an issue later.

 

 

[Matthew k]

He is one of my favorite characters as I believe he is yours.

If I have my math right, I think Jeremy was 14 in 2000. I think he just wants in Will's pants!!

[Canuk]

 

Not sure what you are like, but I treat people based on how they treat me in general. If Bob tells me I am a dick, I don't give Ralph attitude.

 

My challenge has been for anyone to show me textually where Mr. Hendrickson flipped Gathan shit in his apology. I quoted text and showed where everything pointed to Mr. Hendrickson being sincere.

 

Up until Kristin almost dying in Paris, the Hendricksons had been pretty lenient.

 

I think it was chicken shit of Gathan to drop Kristin off at her parents and not go with her to face the music. Maybe if the Hendricksons had vented their rage then, there would have been an issue later.

 

 

 

I think you are being a little harsh on MMIKE's comments. What I understood him to be saying is that Gathan had been through a lot of shit in the previous few weeks. Then with the Concorde incident he realises that he nearly lost the one thing that makes him happy/keeps him sane/provides a rock to which he can anchor himself, then Hendrickson's look to be taking it all away. So his response is not the level-headed reasoned response you'd have him deliver.

 

Your "If Bob tells me I am a dick, I don't give Ralph attitude" works well, with no history. You add Gathan's history and suddenly the discussion with "Ralph" is not the level playing field you suggest. Particularly when "Ralph" has his own baggage.

 

Based on my own experience the best thing to do with children/young adults where things have gone catastrophically wrong is to say nothing but sit and listen. You'd be amazed how often they will talk without prompting first defensively, then explaining, confessing and apologising - all without the "parent" saying anything !.

[PrivateTim]

I wouldn't say Will's my favorite character. That would be JJ, but that's because he's my namesake and my birthdate-sake, and there are ways in which JJ is like me that it scares me at times. LOL. Will is a great character, though- I like that you see how he's like Brad, but also how much he's not like Brad at all. I can't see him being all that bowled over by a 500k cufflinks, for example. Or driving a flashy sports car, either. He seems a bit more grounded and down-to-Earth than Brad is. I think he at 22 would be more likely to take a love interest on a camping trip to Yosemite than he would to exotic locations the way Brad does/did. I like that a lot- it keeps things from being stale to have some fundamental differences between Generation 3 and Generation 4.

 

Well, it's not that Will couldn't, but it's more that it's not all that appealing to him. He's more of a low-key kind of guy than a flashy rich kid. Which is a good thing, because we don't really need a Brad II, do we? Will's just enough like Brad that we can see they're father and son, but different enough that he feels like his own person. And we already have JJ as the flashy couture hound so that will still be nicely represented for this generation.

 

I'm also very excited that Harvard-Westlake is the kind of private school that actually forces all of their students to do lunch room duty and the like. It seems like they very much want to try and keep their kids as grounded as possible, which I really like. It fits very much into the Crampton/Schluter ideal of social responsibiltiy, noblesse oblige, and being able to relate to people from the blue-collar class.

 

If we were in a court I'd object to you assuming facts not in evidence.

 

There is a difference between flashy wealth and not being aware you are wealthy. Will might not drive a Ferrari to school, but I also bet it isn't a 1994 used Forerunner. It will probably be a 2003 Range Rover or the like and that is a $90-100k car and it might never occur to Will that that is what a new condo might cost in Claremont.

 

He might take a boy friend camping is Yosemite, but he is just as likely to borrow grands yacht and head to Todos Santos, or fly to Tavarua or Playa Dominical. He would do that not because he is a snotty rich kid, but it is because it is how he has been raised. Has Will ever been on a commercial plane? Does he understand what it is like to go to a normal airport? Mark has never really discussed it (that I recall), but they wouldn't fly out of LAX, they would most likely go out of the Van Nuys airport (VNY) which is what LAX uses for 90% of their private traffic. When you are used to life like that, it is very hard to do things "the ordinary way".

[Matthew k]

I think you are being a little harsh on MMIKE's comments. What I understood him to be saying is that Gathan had been through a lot of shit in the previous few weeks. Then with the Concorde incident he realises that he nearly lost the one thing that makes him happy/keeps him sane/provides a rock to which he can anchor himself, then Hendrickson's look to be taking it all away. So his response is not the level-headed reasoned response you'd have him deliver.

 

Your "If Bob tells me I am a dick, I don't give Ralph attitude" works well, with no history. You add Gathan's history and suddenly the discussion with "Ralph" is not the level playing field you suggest. Particularly when "Ralph" has his own baggage.

 

Based on my own experience the best thing to do with children/young adults where things have gone catastrophically wrong is to say nothing but sit and listen. You'd be amazed how often they will talk without prompting first defensively, then explaining, confessing and apologising - all without the "parent" saying anything !.

 

I am not trying to be hard on mmike1969, so Mmike, please don't take it that way (and I apologize if you did/do). I just want someone to show, based on what we have seen written, where Mr. Hendrickson was not sincere or what justifies Gathan being immature.

 

Mr Hendrickson had his bad behavior (having Gathan arrested) and Gathan had his (almost getting Kristin killed). They both brought baggge to the meeting and Gathan left dimimished imho.

[PrivateTim]

I think that I-80 through Nebraska, I-70 through western Kansas and eastern Colorado, and I-80 through the Salt Flats and Nevada are the most boring, but that's just me

 

Holy crap have you ever done the 10 Freeway from LA to Jacksonville?

 

LA to Boeme, TX (just outside San Antonio) is the most God forsaken piece of real estate I've ever seen in my life. 1,300+ miles of nothingness, dry, hot nothingness. There are minor pockets of civilization, but none of the beauty of the I-70 drive from Denver through the red rock area until you hit the 15. And none of the beauty of the Rockies through WY and the Wasatches through UT. Yeah SLC to Reno ain't pretty, but Reno to SF is.

 

And yes, the TX hill country is great, but once you get away from San Antonio it is back to misery through Houston and Beaumont (ever been to Beaumont TX, yikes!) all the way until you hit NOLA, but NOLA is the last bastion of civilization until you hit the Atlantic Ocean, other than that it is red neck, "I got two good teethess" country.

[mmike1969]

I do not think Gathan was being immature: I think he's no longer going to put up with anyone's crap... Future father-in-law or not. Big difference.

 

And if you still don't see it, let me shoot you in the arm, have you arrested, and then have a girl get engaged to ya to see if you still will have respect towards people who continually disrespect ya.

 

BTW: I can't remember and I am going to have to find mine, but do dog tags indicate which branch of the military you enlisted in?

 

I did the I-10 from El Pisso, TX to Phoenix several times in 1992... Boring...

 

But I did find out the max speed limit in my 1991 Chrysler LeBarron with a 3.0 V6 was 123 MPH... Something in the car would not let me go any faster... I think the tires would of blown if I went any faster.

 

However, I think driving from El Pisso to Dallas was worse.

Edited August 17, 2011 by mmike1969

[methodwriter85]

If I have my math right, I think Jeremy was 14 in 2000. I think he just wants in Will's pants!!

 

I am, on the dot, JJ's age. Since JJ's birthday is December 7th, it means that for the most part it's like having been born in 1986 instead of 1985.

 

And hell yeah, I want to get into Will's pants. Wouldn't you?

 

 

Will has Sean Faris's face, but with green eyes instead of brown. Man, that'd be hot as hell.

 

Point taken about Will, Timmy.

[Canuk]

I am, on the dot, JJ's age. Since JJ's birthday is December 7th, it means that for the most part it's like having been born in 1986 instead of 1985.

 

And hell yeah, I want to get into Will's pants. Wouldn't you?

 

 

Will has Sean Faris's face, but with green eyes instead of brown. Man, that'd be hot as hell.

 

Point taken about Will, Timmy.

 

 

This boy is 14???? good god! I don't recall any 14 y o looking this good when I was at school.......

[methodwriter85]

Well, no, but Will looks like a 17-year old, green-eyed version of this guy. Remember, Will looks seventeen, not fourteen.

[Daddydavek]

RE: Ch. 35, I commented and Mark replied:

 

Daddydavek Aug 15 2011 12:21 PM (Chapter 35 Review) Not too many details on J.P.'s surgery which he seems to have survived. Will is wilfull. Gathan's role has become less interesting somehow. The road trip west has taken an unexpected turn. And yes driving through Nebraska is as bad as driving through Kansas. Boring, boring, boring.

 

Reply from Mark Arbour (author)

 

You just don't like Gathan since he stopped f**king guys. ;-)

 

 

 

 

My response, is that Mark may have figured me out. I'd also like to say that those boring road trips, even boring ones do give you a better sense of the immense size of our country. Having done one, makes you appreciate the real determination it took people in the 19th century to walk from Missouri to Oregon with their goods loaded on those Conestoga wagons!

[Mark Arbour]

RE: Ch. 35, I commented and Mark replied:

 

Daddydavek Aug 15 2011 12:21 PM (Chapter 35 Review) Not too many details on J.P.'s surgery which he seems to have survived. Will is wilfull. Gathan's role has become less interesting somehow. The road trip west has taken an unexpected turn. And yes driving through Nebraska is as bad as driving through Kansas. Boring, boring, boring.

 

Reply from Mark Arbour (author)

 

You just don't like Gathan since he stopped f**king guys. ;-)

 

 

 

 

My response, is that Mark may have figured me out. I'd also like to say that those boring road trips, even boring ones do give you a better sense of the immense size of our country. Having done one, makes you appreciate the real determination it took people in the 19th century to walk from Missouri to Oregon with their goods loaded on those Conestoga wagons!

 

I pondered that this summer as I drove some of those routes, and the arduous walking didn't daunt me nearly as much as two other things I don't like: heat, and snakes.

[PrivateTim]

My response, is that Mark may have figured me out. I'd also like to say that those boring road trips, even boring ones do give you a better sense of the immense size of our country. Having done one, makes you appreciate the real determination it took people in the 19th century to walk from Missouri to Oregon with their goods loaded on those Conestoga wagons!

 

I pondered that this summer as I drove some of those routes, and the arduous walking didn't daunt me nearly as much as two other things I don't like: heat, and snakes.

 

In college, driving up to my parents place in Northstar (North Lake Tahoe), I wondered every time what it must have been like crossing those mountains on horseback and with wagons and I always thought of the Donner Party.

[methodwriter85]

I'm kinda surprised Darius didn't make a crack about the computer game, Oregon Trail.

[Matthew k]

I'm kinda surprised Darius didn't make a crack about the computer game, Oregon Trail.

 

Was Oregon Trail popular in 2000? I don't remember it being a rip roaring game back then.