Poor Man's Son

[PrivateTim]

Such wisdom, from someone so young.

 

freakin' brown noser!

[sat8997]

And that's why I love him.

[Daddydavek]

I can empathize with all the posters and Mark's replies. Gathan is 17, old enough to be tried as an adult in just about every jurisdiction in the country. He is not

a young adolescent.

 

Stef is not Iggy Pop.

 

I am more interested in where this poor man's son is going and what happens along the way and how the complex inter-relationships in this extended "family" are

affected. Having read the CAP series from the beginning, I care about the main characters and want to see them grow, mature, and attain some measure of fulfillment and a sense of accomplishment. Brad's interest in the Mission and getting Stef involved was a beginning.

 

Mark is inventive, surprising and has been known to aggravate his readers on occasions. I suspect he will continue to do all three in the future.

 

 

[Mark Arbour]

I can empathize with all the posters and Mark's replies. Gathan is 17, old enough to be tried as an adult in just about every jurisdiction in the country. He is not

a young adolescent.

 

Stef is not Iggy Pop.

 

I am more interested in where this poor man's son is going and what happens along the way and how the complex inter-relationships in this extended "family" are

affected. Having read the CAP series from the beginning, I care about the main characters and want to see them grow, mature, and attain some measure of fulfillment and a sense of accomplishment. Brad's interest in the Mission and getting Stef involved was a beginning.

 

Mark is inventive, surprising and has been known to aggravate his readers on occasions. I suspect he will continue to do all three in the future.

 

 

 

I suspect you are correct.

[gjtravel2a]

I though millenium would remain my favorite of this series, but the way the characters are developing, the interesting moral challenges, and the general movement of the story makes me suspect that this might end up topping even Millenium for me! Thanks Mark

gj

[centexhairysub]

I am sorry if any of you thought that I was lecturing you. By the phrase "I will try this again" I meant I was having trouble posting my comments. I had tried it twice before and before I finished them they disappeared. I would never dis any comment by any of you ever. All of us are here because we love Mark's stories. Again I am very sorry if you got that impression. I hope you all will forgive me.

 

Well now I have to apologize as well, I should have considered the technical issue as I too have issues with the site on an ongoing basis or I am just bad with computers... I think the fact I had just had a flaming emailing in my personal box away from this site yelling at me about some of my previous comments probably had me more on edge that I thought. I am really sorry that I didn't take the time to look at what you wrote in other contexts but the one I took.

 

I really have enjoyed using the forums on gay authors and find it interesting to see others points of views on what Mark as written and how everything is colored by our own experiences. I have blocked the two that were sending me emails to my yahoo account and have decided to just not take what they said seriously. I would hope that even when we all don't see eye to eye that we can maintain a sense of propriety and manners.

 

Let's enjoy the give and take of the forum, the discussion, and the delicious anticipation of Mark's next chapter appearing...

[Mark Arbour]

Well now I have to apologize as well, I should have considered the technical issue as I too have issues with the site on an ongoing basis or I am just bad with computers... I think the fact I had just had a flaming emailing in my personal box away from this site yelling at me about some of my previous comments probably had me more on edge that I thought. I am really sorry that I didn't take the time to look at what you wrote in other contexts but the one I took.

 

I really have enjoyed using the forums on gay authors and find it interesting to see others points of views on what Mark as written and how everything is colored by our own experiences. I have blocked the two that were sending me emails to my yahoo account and have decided to just not take what they said seriously. I would hope that even when we all don't see eye to eye that we can maintain a sense of propriety and manners.

 

Let's enjoy the give and take of the forum, the discussion, and the delicious anticipation of Mark's next chapter appearing...

 

What an excellent post! Thanks for saying that!

 

I can understand why you'd all feel so concerned about not being incredibly polite and not offending anyone here in my forum because I never cause problems around here. I'm always so kind and agreeable.

 

I'll give you guys something new to talk about an post the next chapter shortly.

[centexhairysub]

I loved loved loved the latest chapter of this story... I really like the dual narration and find it is really making the story more interesting for me.

 

Now, down to brass tacks so to speak. I do think Brad, Robbie, Jeanine, maybe Tiffany, and Will are going to have to have a come to Jesus meeting soon. As mature as Will is in many ways, he is not an adult and is going to have to do what the adults in his life dictate to some extent. He may think they are idiots or are just trying to ruin his life or control him; but that is their job to some extent. LOL... If any teenager is completely happy with their parents, then the parents are not doing their jobs the way they should be. I think in the end Brad is going to have to be the one that really draws the line, Brad has allowed Will to ignore to many of the others for to long for them to have enough authority to force a change. Someone suggested earlier that Will needs to make a really bad mistake and realize that he doesn't know it all; I at least hope this doesn't happen. That is part of a parents job is setting enough boundaries that the child or teenager doesn't get to that point.

 

I am also glad that Gathan is going to go home to Claremont for a while at least. This will give him to to digest and absorb what has happened to him recently, and no not just the shooting. He needs to be away from turbulence and see how it's effects are going to shake out in his life. Plus, Ella is gonna need a shoulder to cry on with Darius going back to Cali for a while...

 

Can't wait to see what is next...

[Mark Arbour]

I loved loved loved the latest chapter of this story... I really like the dual narration and find it is really making the story more interesting for me.

 

Now, down to brass tacks so to speak. I do think Brad, Robbie, Jeanine, maybe Tiffany, and Will are going to have to have a come to Jesus meeting soon. As mature as Will is in many ways, he is not an adult and is going to have to do what the adults in his life dictate to some extent. He may think they are idiots or are just trying to ruin his life or control him; but that is their job to some extent. LOL... If any teenager is completely happy with their parents, then the parents are not doing their jobs the way they should be. I think in the end Brad is going to have to be the one that really draws the line, Brad has allowed Will to ignore to many of the others for to long for them to have enough authority to force a change. Someone suggested earlier that Will needs to make a really bad mistake and realize that he doesn't know it all; I at least hope this doesn't happen. That is part of a parents job is setting enough boundaries that the child or teenager doesn't get to that point.

 

I am also glad that Gathan is going to go home to Claremont for a while at least. This will give him to to digest and absorb what has happened to him recently, and no not just the shooting. He needs to be away from turbulence and see how it's effects are going to shake out in his life. Plus, Ella is gonna need a shoulder to cry on with Darius going back to Cali for a while...

 

Can't wait to see what is next...

 

 

I think that Will is basically willing to listen to reasonable demands. The problem he's struggling with at this point is that they're so arbitrary. Adults are better (IMHO) at spotting the nuances of actions. We can see that sometimes when people do stupid things, or make ridiculous demands, there are other, more desperate needs buried beneath those demands. I think that's where Jeanine is right now, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to expect Will to get that.

 

I think Brad will find that it's like arguing with a mirror, and that is pretty funny to write. My favorite piece to write in this chapter was this:

 

 

“That was different,” he snapped.

 

“How come when Grand says that, you always say it’s because he’s losing an argument?” I asked.

 

 

 

There's nothing quite as irritating as a parent as being hit square in the face with one of your own best weapons.

[Hermetically Sealed]

Now, down to brass tacks so to speak. I do think Brad, Robbie, Jeanine, maybe Tiffany, and Will are going to have to have a come to Jesus meeting soon. As mature as Will is in many ways, he is not an adult and is going to have to do what the adults in his life dictate to some extent. He may think they are idiots or are just trying to ruin his life or control him; but that is their job to some extent. LOL... If any teenager is completely happy with their parents, then the parents are not doing their jobs the way they should be. I think in the end Brad is going to have to be the one that really draws the line, Brad has allowed Will to ignore to many of the others for to long for them to have enough authority to force a change. Someone suggested earlier that Will needs to make a really bad mistake and realize that he doesn't know it all; I at least hope this doesn't happen. That is part of a parents job is setting enough boundaries that the child or teenager doesn't get to that point.

I'd have to agree with this. I think most of the fault lies with Brad spoiling him and teaching him that he didn't need to listen to his mother. Honestly, I'm really starting to dislike him. A lot. Teenager or not, even at that age I couldn't relate to kids that behaved that way. I certainly didn't always agree with my parents, nor happy with their choices, but I did get that they knew more than I did, and had responsibilities. Course, I also didn't have a lot of teenage friends, so I can see that I wouldn't be the norm. lol

[methodwriter85]

What I like about this is that we're seeing something that's been building since the last story. Will just doesn't have any respect for his mother, and the more latitude Brad's given, the more Will thinks he doesn't have to follow the rules.

[rjo]

This chapter is wonderful in so many ways. After rereading LW and Be rad again I think that lot of chickens are coming home to roust. Mark has slowly developed Will from a cone of Brad into a real person. Both Brad and Will are strong willed people. Another problem is that Brad ran the show and Robbie and Jeanine just followed along for all those early years. Even though Brad tries to be new and improved he slips back sometimes. The failt lies with Brad more than anyone else, If Brad believes Will should be judged by maturity and not age. Why can't Will do what he wants? Staying with Clare for a few weeks is not unreasonable. You have to keep the rules the same. Changing them all the time will not help anyone. Maybe Jeanine, Tiffany, Robbie Brad and Will should visit David Sizemore. Looking back maybe JP and Isidore did a better job than everybody thought.

 

Two more comments I also like the duel narrators it gets you into the mind of Will and Gathan and therefore you understand their points of view better.

 

I'd also like to point out a parallel situation: Do you guys feel that Stef and George are both trying to heal broken people they care about.

 

One more thing Don't you think it odd Brad seems ungrateful? Gathan saved him. Stef seems for gratefull. Do you think that unusual?

[Mark Arbour]

This chapter is wonderful in so many ways. After rereading LW and Be rad again I think that lot of chickens are coming home to roust. Mark has slowly developed Will from a cone of Brad into a real person. Both Brad and Will are strong willed people. Another problem is that Brad ran the show and Robbie and Jeanine just followed along for all those early years. Even though Brad tries to be new and improved he slips back sometimes. The failt lies with Brad more than anyone else, If Brad believes Will should be judged by maturity and not age. Why can't Will do what he wants? Staying with Clare for a few weeks is not unreasonable. You have to keep the rules the same. Changing them all the time will not help anyone. Maybe Jeanine, Tiffany, Robbie Brad and Will should visit David Sizemore. Looking back maybe JP and Isidore did a better job than everybody thought.

 

Two more comments I also like the duel narrators it gets you into the mind of Will and Gathan and therefore you understand their points of view better.

 

I'd also like to point out a parallel situation: Do you guys feel that Stef and George are both trying to heal broken people they care about.

 

One more thing Don't you think it odd Brad seems ungrateful? Gathan saved him. Stef seems for gratefull. Do you think that unusual?

 

I think Brad's having a hard time coming to grips with how much he owes Gathan. If we walked into his brain, he'd probably be ranting at himself, all pissed off that he didn't think about a possible gunman, etc. He's doing what he always does: Instead of expressing his emotions honestly, he's running around and solving problems (getting the attorney, taking care of things behind the scenes, etc).

[Mark Arbour]

I'd have to agree with this. I think most of the fault lies with Brad spoiling him and teaching him that he didn't need to listen to his mother. Honestly, I'm really starting to dislike him. A lot. Teenager or not, even at that age I couldn't relate to kids that behaved that way. I certainly didn't always agree with my parents, nor happy with their choices, but I did get that they knew more than I did, and had responsibilities. Course, I also didn't have a lot of teenage friends, so I can see that I wouldn't be the norm. lol

 

 

What I like about this is that we're seeing something that's been building since the last story. Will just doesn't have any respect for his mother, and the more latitude Brad's given, the more Will thinks he doesn't have to follow the rules.

 

I can see where you're coming from, but in my experience, if you tell an intelligent child "you have to do this because I said so," they naturally rebel. If you give them a reason, and it's sound, you'll get cooperation. You may argue that children should learn to obey their parents regardless, as their time on earth presumably gives them more wisdom. I'm not an adherent of that theory (think Brenda Hayes). I think that if you reason with kids, tell them why you want them to do things, they learn from that, and learn to respect your authority. Brad's permissiveness probably stems from the fact that he understands Will (since they are a lot alike) and knows how to deal with him (and how not to deal with him).

 

Visualize this scene: Jeanine tells Brad that he can't go to Escorial (a few chapter back) and he freaks out. Instead of issuing a mandate, she tells him that Tiffany left, she's really upset, and she needs his support. What do you think his reaction would have been?

[sat8997]

Visualize this scene: Jeanine tells Brad Will that he can't go to Escorial (a few chapter back) and he freaks out. Instead of issuing a mandate, she tells him that Tiffany left, she's really upset, and she needs his support. What do you think his reaction would have been?

 

<snaugh>

[Mark Arbour]

<snaugh>

 

Always the editor. Thanks.

[methodwriter85]

I'm kinda curious- is the relationship that Will has to Brad similiar to the one you have with your son, Mark? Do fights get explosive like that with your kid? I would imagine that someone like you would have a pretty head-strong son as well.

Edited April 10, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

I'm kinda curious- is the relationship that Will has to Brad similiar to the one you have with your son, Mark? Do fights get explosive like that with your kid? I would imagine that someone like you would have a pretty head-strong son as well.

 

We have our moments.

[methodwriter85]

We have our moments.

 

Eh, it happens. From what I understand, though, he'll view you as less of an adversary and more of a friend when he moves into his twenties.

[centexhairysub]

Hmmm, Will at Gunn, I have to admit I never even thought of that. It would be so interesting to see Will at Gunn and being up there with JP et al. I really like the idea because it would put Will with John almost full time and I love that idea. Plus we could see Will where Brad was and see how he would handle things differently and what he would do the same.

 

I do think that this can't be a decision that Will and Brad make just by themselves. They are going to have to get Robbie and Jeanine's input and I am not sure how supportive she will be about it with Will's recent behavior. I do think that Will has a point but so does Jeanine and I really do think that Brad has let Will call to many of the shots lately, starting to wonder who is the parent and who is the child.

 

Oh, I never thought about Tiffany ending up at Escorial either but I guess that makes sense as well with Matt and Wade being so close by. They would be able to help her out and stay sort of bonded.

 

I am glad to see Gathan back in Claremont and see some of the story move back there at least for a while. I really enjoy anytime the story moves back there, I don't know why but some of the best chapters throught the CAP series have been there for me. Plus, we have to see who Gathan can get into trouble with next there....

 

I can't wait for the next chapter, keep up the great work Mark.

[KYE]

For me Chapter 8 has been the best chapter in this story so far. Will's interaction with Tiffany was good and the conversation between Will and Brad was spot-on. Brad telling Will some of his early teenage love life will probably help Will a lot as he matures. The give and take of their conversation was great, pushing many emotions in each of them. It seemed to bond them together even more and helped Will see things from not as selfish or one sided perspective.

It also seems that Gathan has come back down to earth a little in this chapter, more like the original character we met. And you didn't have to kill somebody or get into graphic sex in this chapter to move the story along, very well done.

 

Now for the future, if Will is at Escorial going to Gunn, and with Gathan at Stanford, probably at Escorial a lot also, it would seem these 2 guys lives will continue to interact.

Edited April 15, 2011 by KYE

[gjtravel2a]

Lots of great surprises in this edition of "As Escorial Turns", but I must say, for me, one of the best lines I have ever seen written is your line stating:

 

"I watched that blow out any number of circuits in the part of his brain where his pre-conceived ideas lived."

 

What a great line in the midst of an incredible story!

 

gj

 

 

[methodwriter85]

I hope Will really likes Asians, TI-81 calculators, and Adderall. Oh, and no longer being able to surf before and after school. (Gunn High, from what I read, reminds me so much of the math & science Charter school that was upstairs from my high school, sans the uniform.) I seriously can't see how a competitive surfer would deal well with going from a school that had a beach literally a block or two away to going to school where he can only surf on weekends, but we'll see how this goes. *goes off to Youtube to look at Gunn High School videos*

 

We really need to have down where John's going to middle school, since he's the co-protagonist's boyfriend and all that. Tommy suggested Menlo School, which sounds like a good school for John and something I could see Claire and Jack choosing.

Edited April 15, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Fun chapters.

 

I too see problems with someone like Will who is so into surfing, not being able to surf every day. Even with a limo & chauffer he couldn't surf in the morning before school or even after school, especially in the winter. The nearest surfing is easily 40 minutes away. Hopefully he decides after summer, he is ready to move home.

 

And I don't think he would go to Malibu High or Gunn or any public school. With having parents who are very wealthy, a billionaire grandfather and two assassination attempts it is most likely that not just Brad, but Jack & Claire as well would have their kids in private schools like The Menlo School or St. Francis up north and Harvard-Westlake or Loyola down south.

 

Even if they had gone to public schools previously, their family is getting too high profile to be properly protected at a public school.

 

 

[Hermetically Sealed]

I do think that this can't be a decision that Will and Brad make just by themselves. They are going to have to get Robbie and Jeanine's input and I am not sure how supportive she will be about it with Will's recent behavior. I do think that Will has a point but so does Jeanine and I really do think that Brad has let Will call to many of the shots lately, starting to wonder who is the parent and who is the child.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. Brad is trying too hard to be his "friend" instead of his parent. Also disappointed that Brad didn't counter the whole respect thing, pointing out how Will has never respected his mom to earn her respect either. IIRC, all the stories have pointed out that if Will didn't get his way, we'd just whine to dad to get it. Why didn't Brad turn the whole thing back on Will, asking him when has he given his mom a reason to respect him? Meh, even as a teen I was never that way, so just finding it very difficult to feel any sympathy for the little turd. lol

 

Nice to see Gathan getting respect in his community (even if somewhat staged). I agree that it was a necessary political move, and hopefully he takes advantage of it to help turn around the family reputation.

 

Despite what my dislike of Will might convey, I do enjoy the story. Keep up the good work, Mark.