Gays dissing other gays

[The_Round_One]

A recent spell in this site's chat room reminded me of how hateful some gays can be other ones. To be sure, the insults are different from those amongst the straights, but they are certainly present. I've put together a list of what I think the top markers are for dislike amongst the gays I've seen, known, and chatted with.

 

1. Fat - Seemingly the biggest insult to be doled out by "mainstream" gays is saying that the other person is fat, as if that is the most evil, terrible thing one could be. For a group that asks others to respect diversity, such a slam seems hypocritical. Seems to be roughly the equivalent of "That's so gay" among young straight people.

 

2. Age - The second most evil thing, apparently, is to get older. This is more universal, as we're schooled so much to worship youth, that even many older gays don't want anything to do with gays their own age. Just remember, at some point you'll want to have something to talk about AFTER you do the nasty.

 

3. Looks - If you're not a gaunt, chiseled model-type, you're ugly and not worth any time or courtesy.

 

4. Manner - This one gets to the whole "gay-acting" / "straight-acting" issue. At its root is the assumption that there is ONLY ONE WAY to be gay (aside from the carnal issues, of course): adopt the "accent," get into drag, adore dance "music," obsess about clothes and cologne. Those who wish to "mark" themselves as not doing these things by saying they're "straight-acting" frequently get attacked by those who either want to call them self-hating or by those who really think there is just one way to be gay.

 

I'm sure I'll get yelled at (or the cyber equivalent of yelling) for even mentioning this, but my recent encounter in the chat room here was that unsettling. If I'd wanted to be dismissed for any of the reasons above (or read of others being dismissed in those ways), I'd have gone to the cruising sites or to a local meat market and been sneered at.

 

Hope you're all having a better day!

[NotNoNever]

Golly.

 

I've only been in the chatroom once, and then only because there were some people I was famliar with, so I didn't get any of that vibe. However, I understand what you're saying. The way to be gay is to say with dismay everything with extreme dislike for everything, especially what someone else does or likes. But it's not usually a problem on GA. I have no doubt a mod will eventually pick up on this thread, so don't be shy - name them if asked!

Edited September 12, 2012 by NotNoNever

[joann414]

Wow, you seem to have had a pretty bad experience. I haven't ever felt seen that in chat, and i hope you won't again. If so, I agree with NNN, a mod will catch wind of it or someone will report it. Don't let it keep you from chat. There's really some nice folks there.. I would love to see you there and talk. .

[Houdinii]

I'm guilty about the age thing... but it's only cause I love the ones I tease... I hope I'm not one that you are frowning on.

[Ramon]

I'm going to have to agree with the other two. I rarely go to chat but the people there are usually very friendly. I'm sorry you had a bad experience going there and I hope you come back so that the others can show you that people here are generally very nice.

 

I must say though, I've probably been guilty of thinking along those lines before. In terms of age, I'm very fond of older men so it's my thinking is usually against those that are quite young.

[Tranquility]

In the week or so I've been a member here, I've spent most of my time exactly in that chat room and I've got to tell you, I've not seen anyone act out against anyone. In fact, I've not seen so much as a difference of opinions. I make jokes all the time, based on gender, age, orientation - hell, anything! - sometimes they're funny, sometimes I go to far. But it's comedy, and if you can't joke about everything then you're quite humorless, in my honest opinion. AND, I can take a joke too.

You have to note the difference here, though: GAs is not a hookup site. So if someone mentions someone else's age, it has nothing to do with the elder party in the convo being dissed. It's just fun. I've met a few guys here old enough to be my father and they're great people with as much fun and energy in them as someone who's still a teenager. Besides; we're not here to date one another, we're here to socialize and enjoy our mutual love of writing and reading. Even if that wasn't so, what does it matter if someone's fat or ugly, or has bucked teeth or an acne problem or whatever? It tells nothing of the person beneath. I'm sorry TRO, but the way I see it, in trying to protect the right values (and the right values you truly support), you've not seen beyond the naivety and fun nature of the exchange and instead saw something that wasn't there.

 

Peace.

[Houdinii]

/\ True that, your a fellow bro to us The_Round_One, and you, like all us other misfits, are included. Trust me when I say that I've gotten in knock down fights with some of the members just to pop up and be civil again.... That's the beauty of this place. Stuff happens, we argue, then we get over it...

[Andy78]

I've spent a lot time in chat over the past year and have never encountered or seen anything like you have described. In fact, I'm stunned that anything like that has occurred in chat.

 

One thing you have to keep in mind is that many of the members of the site have been here for a while and feel quite comfortable having a laugh and a joke at each other's expense - think how you have a laugh with colleagues at work and laugh at someone's taste in music, films or even who they find attractive.

 

If ever it goes to far, it will either get reported to one of the mods, or one of the other chat users will call people on comments they've made. There also tends to be a mod or one of the site admins in chat at some point of the day.

 

It can look quite daunting to newbies when we go all out in chat, but I find it very hard to believe anyone says anything in chat with any malicious intent.

 

However, if you feel someone has said something inappropriate to you, then you should report it to one of the mods so it can be looked into.

[podga]

The_Round_One,

 

I'm 48 (49 in less than a month), straight-acting (as in closeted), and nobody in recent memory has mistaken me for a model. I have always felt more than welcome in the chat room, and look forward to visiting with friends there. In fact, this has been the first opportunity for me since the mid-80s to be part of a mostly gay, and certainly completely gay-embracing, community.. People have listened to me, supported me and, at the simplest level, provided a fun and warm space for me. Are there insults exchanged? Yes, sometimes, but it's more in the nature of jokes in a jocks' locker room. Well, a gay jocks' locker room, because there's also some flirting. And we talk about a lot of things: today we covered writing, diving, hunting, guiness book of records among other subjects.

 

I believe I was present during the spell you were talking about. Although I wasn't paying full attention to the main chatroom, the incident you are referring to was between three GA members, ranging in age from mid-40s to 16, who know, and, as far as I can tell and have witnessed, like each other. Lines were flying at great speed, and people were just going with it. So, at least in this given conversation, while some of the themes you mention were present, they were more mentioned in fun than in a hating way.

 

That being said, walking into a chat room with 10 or 12 participants who all seem to know each other can be anything from simply confusing to intimidating, and it can also take a while for one of those participants to hear a voice talking about a different subject. If you'd stuck around, you'd have seen the conversation slow down, and you could have voiced your concerns and been listened to. We should have also been more proactive; I know I very much appreciated one member asking me a lot of questions the first time I was there, and had you entered a few minutes later or earlier, you would have seen a different topic that you could have jumped in on and started to feel more comfortable.

 

Not everybody is going to like chat, or all the people in chat, or all the subjects discussed, but that's true of any situation. Just consider that what you assumed you were seeing, based on your experience in the other chat rooms you mentioned, was not actually what was going on. And if you want to try again, well, at least now we know you a little better, and you us, and the conversation will start to flow a little more easily.

[The_Round_One]

Well...having been told to shut the hell up by young AND old, I guess I'd better do just that. I will say, however, that despite Tranquility thinking me naive, he missed the larger intent of the note: that the incident reminded me of the culture at large. As for not thinking it's a hookup site, I can only say DUH! I guess I won't fit into the cliques here either, with their popularity ratings and such.

[Houdinii]

Somehow I just got the song "ya ain't seen nothing yet" stuck in my head I've flirted before, and got burned in the process. I've fought before and regretted it. I've met many MANY friends. (All of that, I do in RL too as it seems) Let the peeps squabble and cat fight, cause they will do it anyways, and just don't get in the middle of it. It's a great community, and a lot of us have known each other for a long time. Hell, wouldn't mind getting to know YOU for a long time. Just remember, there is a good chance I will post something offensive, we all do it... But in the long haul, most peeps around here actually do give a damn... Trust me, they walked me through many bad times....

 

Bwahahaa, TRO, I think through your post, ya became a lil bit more popular

[Benji]

A recent spell in this site's chat room reminded me of how hateful some gays can be other ones. To be sure, the insults are different from those amongst the straights, but they are certainly present. I've put together a list of what I think the top markers are for dislike amongst the gays I've seen, known, and chatted with.

 

1. Fat - Seemingly the biggest insult to be doled out by "mainstream" gays is saying that the other person is fat, as if that is the most evil, terrible thing one could be. For a group that asks others to respect diversity, such a slam seems hypocritical. Seems to be roughly the equivalent of "That's so gay" among young straight people.

 

2. Age - The second most evil thing, apparently, is to get older. This is more universal, as we're schooled so much to worship youth, that even many older gays don't want anything to do with gays their own age. Just remember, at some point you'll want to have something to talk about AFTER you do the nasty.

 

3. Looks - If you're not a gaunt, chiseled model-type, you're ugly and not worth any time or courtesy.

 

4. Manner - This one gets to the whole "gay-acting" / "straight-acting" issue. At its root is the assumption that there is ONLY ONE WAY to be gay (aside from the carnal issues, of course): adopt the "accent," get into drag, adore dance "music," obsess about clothes and cologne. Those who wish to "mark" themselves as not doing these things by saying they're "straight-acting" frequently get attacked by those who either want to call them self-hating or by those who really think there is just one way to be gay.

 

I'm sure I'll get yelled at (or the cyber equivalent of yelling) for even mentioning this, but my recent encounter in the chat room here was that unsettling. If I'd wanted to be dismissed for any of the reasons above (or read of others being dismissed in those ways), I'd have gone to the cruising sites or to a local meat market and been sneered at.

 

Hope you're all having a better day!

 

 

..................... I'm a chat moderator and I'm sorry and embarrassed that I was not moderating on the time frame you spoke of. I would have spoken up immediately had I known, next time you see this happening e-mail me right away. I will respond in turn, this is not how the chat room is supposed to run. NOBODY should be dissed for the reasons you stated!

[The_Round_One]

I know, Houdini, I should settle down. In the words of John Adams (from the musical "1776"), I reek of discontent. That being said, I know from bad times because of being gay (blackmailing episodes, oral assault, other kinds of subjugation); I don't know if they were worse than the sneers I've always gotten from the "gays" the few times I've been to gay bars. (No, I've not been there to try to pick up anyone; I know better than that). Perhaps if I find the older crowd on here, I'll enjoy it more.

[JamesSavik]

I'm an old fart but far from helpless.

 

My wit and disposition (usually nasty) make me either a sweet old geezer or your worst nightmare.

 

Your choice.

[Houdinii]

lmao, 45 isn't old (or I hope not, cause I'll be there soon enough...)

 

I'm an old fart but far from helpless.

 

My wit and disposition (usually nasty) make me either a sweet old geezer or your worst nightmare.

 

Your choice.

 

Gonna completely defy your original post TOR and call this guy /\ a geezer JK, Savik

[Cia]

Hmm... there really isn't a place where any one 'crowd' congregates on the site. You might find some older members more likely to participate in the Soapbox, yet they are active in the Sports Forum as well. Then you have someone like me (bi-woman married to a man) that is mostly focused on the writing aspects of the site and popping into chat whenever I can. Then you find some teens might be in the teen forum and the games and humor, but we also have a few that are political active too, and a few that are active writers.

 

The thing I like about GA is that it tends to be a huge polyglot of personalities. That being said, chat is an environment of its own, depending on the members in there and the conversations occuring. I've felt excluded at times, and I'm an admin and a member of 3 years! A single experience shouldn't deter you from trying again to find aspects of the site you like, and I really would encourage you to attempt to chat again sometime, The_Round_One. If you don't feel comfortable in there at just any time, keep an eye out for a time when a moderator or admin is in there.

 

If you feel attacked for any reason, click on their name in the active user's box and send them a private convo in chat. Or, copy the conversation and pm a staff member with your time zone so we can investigate the problem. We attempt to prevent any issues that make any member feel unwelcome.

[WatchPatRun]

I mean no disrespect by this, but I know what chat instance you're speaking of, from earlier. Yes, we were talking about aging and getting fat, but I think you drastically took it out of context. Do you come around chat often? We all know each other very well. In fact, Vic and I have known each other for over seven years, so we were clearly (by clearly I mean by the context of the conversation) joking around with one another. You didn't stay long enough to see that, either.

 

Although I do agree with most of those things in general, I don't think what you experienced in chat earlier would be associated particularly to any of those. Give chat another chance, and stay for more than two minutes and you'll see

[Ashi]

The_Round_One

 

Everybody already said most of the stuff I wanted to say. Just give it another chance. Chatting can be like lottery. Sometimes the experience is good, sometimes it's just intimidating that I wish I would disappear into thin air. My first time in chat was fortunately okay, but my second time in chat I didn't feel very comfortable. Sometimes it's just like that. I don't know if you were present when one of the regular was in the room and we were sort of yelling at him (though it's out of compassion). He constantly mentions about his weight and none of us are really dissing him because of that fact. I sometimes self-ridicule about my own age saying I am so old and stuff, and that made some older members angry sometimes. But you know, don't take it personally. Just give it a round two, okay?

 

I don't know if you were in the room when we were talking about people's chatting age. It happens. We're all younger in chat room. And I preemptive greet people. People tend to be more friendly toward you if you show some friendliness first. If they still don't. Well, the ocean is big enough. Come back another time when you find someone you are more comfy with was in the room. And these words come from someone who was (and still is somewhat) painfully shy in social setting.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Ashi

[The_Round_One]

Very well...I'll just shut up and absorb whatever you youngsters dish out, WatchPatRun. If you'd read closer though, I said it all reminded me of the larger community's pitfalls.

[WatchPatRun]

I read it closely. That's why I said that in general, I agree with you.

[Tranquility]

Can I just add that, in now way do I see you as naive TRO I said that the chat subject was naive and fun, not serious and hurtful. 'Tis all. And I don't think anyone here wants you to shut up. All the people here are so very welcoming and friendly (though some have skills with guns and bows which frighten me a tad ), but somehow you just started off on the wrong foot. Give them - give us - another chance?

[Krista]

This is an example of why Member Reports are so important to the Moderation teams. Not only does it give us something to file and put away or discuss - it gives us a time stamp or a time should be added so that the incident can be looked into.

 

Chat is fast paced and there are times when Moderators/Administrators aren't in there or not paying attention.

 

I will also have to add that people who frequent chat get to know one another and a joking/lightness is formed. Not with everyone, but it happens. I don't think anyone would tell you to shut up or anything for speaking a concern. You're getting a bit defensive, but the people who have commented have been frequent chatters - and would likely know more about what is happening. So instead of saying, "I'll just shut up and absorb it," you could take a more proactive step and come into chat and see for yourself.

[Graeme]

Very well...I'll just shut up and absorb whatever you youngsters dish out, WatchPatRun. If you'd read closer though, I said it all reminded me of the larger community's pitfalls.

 

Please, please, can I count as a youngster? Next year I'll be 25 (for the second time)

 

Seriously, though, I read the initial post and thought that what was stated was pretty normal for communities in general. Indeed, my gut reaction was why this thread was titled "Gays dissing other gays". I think it would be more accurate as "People dissing other people". The fact that the majority of people here are gay doesn't seem relevant....

 

In any community, there are always groups. Groups, by their nature, include and exclude - you're either in a group or not in a group. Sometimes the selection of who is in a group is clear (young or old... though what do you do about the people in the middle?) and sometimes it's not (am I gay? I say I am, but I'm happily married with two wonderful kids. How many people believe I'm a closeted bi-sexual in denial? )

 

Now, having created groups, we then have interactions within and between groups. Interactions range from affectionate through to hostile. A common form of interaction is through humour, but the electronic medium we're using online is very, very prone to humour being misinterpreted as being hostile, especially when the humour is sarcasm. Is that what happened here (as some have implied). I've got no idea, but it's a possibility. I've seen this happen way too often to discount it.

 

I am rarely in chat, but from the forums, and from the reports to moderators (of which I am one, and have been for quite some time now... gee I'm feeling old again ) I will say that the vast majority of members are considerate and not hostile. Even with some of the apparently hostile members, when you dig deeper you can find that the hostility isn't always what you think it is - it may appear to be directed at another member, but it's often not the case. For the exceptions to that, there's the report function so the moderation team and investigate

 

The community here is not without it's tensions and rough edges, but it's an active, interesting and generally very positive community, and I'm very proud to be part of it, even if I've been keeping a lower-than-normal profile for the last few months.

I'm an old fart but far from helpless.

 

My wit and disposition (usually nasty) make me either a sweet old geezer or your worst nightmare.

 

Your choice.

James, you're not old And you're neither a sweet old geezer, or my worst nightmare. You're just a complex person that I happen to deeply respect and love... even when we disagree

[Billy Martin]

I don't mind saying that there have been times with a couple members I have felt unwelcome, but that's life. There will never been a time when everyone will like me or want me around. However, I have never felt unwelcome by everyone in chat and I have no problem whatsoever at ignoring those that clearly didn't want me there.

 

It's been my experience that a large majority of chatter on GA are awesome people that I would have as friends offline. SO, I say hang in there, go back to chat and meet the really good people there, because they are there, trust me.

 

On the larger issue that you brought up, I agree 100% Gays are less tolerant towards other gays and that confuses the hell out of me. However, from talking to older guys with a lot more experience than myself, we tend to grow out of it and become more tolerant of others. Maybe I'm wrong, because I have very little experience with other gays, except for online. But every single point you made in your first post that start this topic, I have seen online almost daily, for sure, weekly.

 

I just hope that there will come a day where everyone can respect everyone else. And one of the great things about GA is, almost everyone here does, except for in the soapbox, a place I have no intentions of interacting. So, like I said, hang in there, because there are some really super people here to meet and make friends with.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Billy Brat

[MikeL]

I don't know if you were in the room when we were talking about people's chatting age. It happens. We're all younger in chat room.

 

I've been a member of GA for 6½ years and a frequent participant in chat, though less so recently. I've seen a lot of good-natured kidding, but rarely anything that should make a participant uncomfortable. I can't say that never happens, but it is surely a rare exception to the usual decorum. No, decorum is the wrong word. Any time 10 or more participants are in chat, it will certainly be frantic.

 

I am probably one of the oldest members ever in chat, and I can't recall anyone ever making fun of my age. Maybe the fact that I am straight makes me less "sensitive". (How's that for stereotyping?)

 

Ashi's comment made me realize something I had not before. A number of us, myself included, have had several occasions to comment in various forums on what we like about GA. I never mentioned the fact that an association with a group of people who are much younger than I on average makes me feel younger. It does just that. And it's not just when I am in chat...that feeling stays with me when I am away from GA. So, make fun of my age...even my sexual orientation...but do it in a good-natured way and I will eat it up.

 

The_Round_One, give chat another chance. Hang back if it gets a little intense, but try to enjoy yourself and others will enjoy your company. See you there.

Edited September 13, 2012 by MikeL