Review or Comment?

William King · October 31, 2017

What is the difference between a review of a completed book versus a comment?

A book review should contain a few minimum elements: a short summary of the story without giving away the plot, a critique of what you liked/didn't like about the story, and a word or two on the writing style. It doesn't need to be too long, but a couple of lines are a comment rather than a review.

There is no guidance about what constitutes a review - but you can Google it!

I find it a little disappointing when clicking on the list of latest book reviews to just read something that basically says "I liked it." That's great, but doesn't give any information about the book and whether I might want to read it. I wonder if members are posting comments as reviews so that they might rate the story five stars, or perhaps because that's how it was in the past, before the update. If this is the case, then it might be a good move to get rid of star ratings.

If members want to promote their favourite book, there could perhaps (suggestion) be a book of the month readers choice - a poll to vote for the best story you read this month.

In any event the reviewing of completed stories is not quite working as it was intended.

Mikiesboy · October 31, 2017

And it may be well to remember that some people who read here have difficulty writing out full blown reviews. That it is as much as they can manage for whatever reason to write: I liked it and choose the number of stars to give something. THAT is their review and their choice and their opinion.

So if that is what someone wants to leave that, as an author, then they are welcome and I am grateful they did. As a reader, i figure they must have felt enough to leave the 1 to 5 stars they did.

I've gotten a number of PMs from readers who leave review there because they are not comfortable doing it in public. However they want to say how they feel is welcomed by me.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Mikiesboy

mollyhousemouse · October 31, 2017

i often can't find the words so sometimes less IS more

William King · October 31, 2017

@Mikiesboy I understand people want to just write "I liked it" which is exactly what the COMMENTS are for. The star rating admittedly is fixed on the REVIEWS section, but is it really necessary?

Mikiesboy · October 31, 2017

1 minute ago, William King said:

@Mikiesboy I understand people want to just write "I liked it" which is exactly what the COMMENTS are for. The star rating admittedly is fixed on the REVIEWS section, but is it really necessary?

Nothing is necessary, William. We have the star system .. like many other sites have. And I understand the difference between reviews and comments ... But again, not everyone is a writer or a critic so that's why we have stars. Using them is an opinion: In my opinion this story rates 3 out of 5 stars. That is a review...like it or not.

And it lets people who cannot write the type of book review you refer to, say how they feel.

William King · October 31, 2017

9 minutes ago, Mikiesboy said:

But again, not everyone is a writer or a critic so that's why we have stars. Using them is an opinion: In my opinion this story rates 3 out of 5 stars. That is a review...like it or not.

Rating a story is not a review, perhaps it would be an idea to put the star rating on the COMMENTS, it would seem more appropriate judging by what you are saying. You would then have the whole COMMENTS section completed with the short one liners, "I liked it very much" and a rating 5 stars.

@mollyhousemouse I don't think a review needs to be several paragraphs, but it does need to be more than a few words or a couple of lines, which is a comment. So yes, I agree with you that "less can be more" but a review is a review, there to assist other readers ( which is why there is a button to say 'was this review helpful ).

Parker Owens · October 31, 2017

In writing a review, I sometimes find myself explaining how the story made me feel, or made me want to do. Several stories inspired me to write something - poetry or prose - and in my better moments, I can explain why. I agree that, as an author whose work is being reviewed, it would be nice to know what people liked or disliked about what was written, and how it was written. Still, is at least comforting to know that what I wrote moved a reader sufficiently to make even a briefly worded statement.

FormerMember4 · October 31, 2017

2 hours ago, William King said:

Rating a story is not a review, perhaps it would be an idea to put the star rating on the COMMENTS, it would seem more appropriate judging by what you are saying. You would then have the whole COMMENTS section completed with the short one liners, "I liked it very much" and a rating 5 stars.

@mollyhousemouse I don't think a review needs to be several paragraphs, but it does need to be more than a few words or a couple of lines, which is a comment. So yes, I agree with you that "less can be more" but a review is a review, there to assist other readers ( which is why there is a button to say 'was this review helpful ).

William, I do understand where you are coming from. An author should appreciate any review. As you know, I'm blind. I have no issues doing a review the way you want. However; a person with motor skill issues, or learning disability might find a struggle with two sentences.

Mikiesboy · October 31, 2017

3 hours ago, William King said:

Rating a story is not a review, perhaps it would be an idea to put the star rating on the COMMENTS, it would seem more appropriate judging by what you are saying. You would then have the whole COMMENTS section completed with the short one liners, "I liked it very much" and a rating 5 stars.

@mollyhousemouse I don't think a review needs to be several paragraphs, but it does need to be more than a few words or a couple of lines, which is a comment. So yes, I agree with you that "less can be more" but a review is a review, there to assist other readers ( which is why there is a button to say 'was this review helpful ).

We disagree and that's fine. You can always leave a note on your work asking people not to use the review option. Personally, i will accept what people are happy to give, in the form they wish to.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Mikiesboy

Brayon · October 31, 2017

3 hours ago, William King said:

@Mikiesboy I understand people want to just write "I liked it" which is exactly what the COMMENTS are for. The star rating admittedly is fixed on the REVIEWS section, but is it really necessary?

This is something that we Authors have discussed in our private forum, and I do believe that the agreement was that ANY comment left by a Reader was acceptable. It was also stated that Gay Authors WAS NOT going to impose Guidelines on what readers left as Reviews or Comments.

Frankly Will, this stinks of elitism.

Brayon · October 31, 2017

5 hours ago, William King said:

In any event the reviewing of completed stories is not quite working as it was intended.

See my post above. This is your OPINION only, and not what the site states.

Edited October 31, 2017 by BHopper2

William King · October 31, 2017

When a story is complete there are two options: Review or Comment.

Reviews are there to assist readers in choosing a book to read, that is why it is called a review and why there is a second option called comment, and also why there is a button "was this review helpful."

Before the site was updated there were simply comments, now there is a review section, which quite obviously is for reviews. It is not being elitist to point this out, it is an intelligent discussion about reviews versus comments and what you do regarding rating. That members might be leaving comments in the review section because that is the only way to rate a story.

There is no disagreement here about readers being able to leave any comment they wish. At the risk of labouring the point, having two distinct sections for completed stories Reviews and Comments is because they serve different purposes. Saying it is not quite working as intended is an observation which it seems reasonable to make, there is a place for reviews and a place for comments, but comments are appearing as reviews.

We are also in agreement that guidelines are not required, just common sense, if you write "I liked this story," it isn't a review and properly belongs in the comments section. If you do not agree with that observation then what are the two sections Reviews and Comments for, indeed why have two sections?

drpaladin · October 31, 2017

Everyone doesn't look at reviews prior to reading a story. I know I don't. I look at the author's description and the tags. Many times reviews can tell you more than you want to know.

Brayon · October 31, 2017

Look man. I'm not trying to flame you, nor getting into a debate about the finer parts of the English language when it comes to definitions of words, and sections of a "Stories'" front page on the GA site. This was discussed privately among us Author's, and I know you were a participant cause we disagreed there as well. Your opinion on Reviews, and how they are supposed to be used, was also rejected there too.

Feedback (I'll use that word instead of comment) from a Reader, regardless if it's posted as a Comment or a Review is always acceptable. The Review section is working as intended by the Admin of the GA site, who wants GA to be inclusive of all readers, and writers.

Comments on a Story's Front Page are the only form of a Top-Level, aka not a Chapter Comment, for Readers to talk about the Story, directly on the story. It is not always used.

Reviews, are for Completed Stories, for Feedback from a reader. "I liked it," is perfectly acceptable.

As the person, who is the current Leader of posting Story Reviews, I'm really starting to take it personally. Feedback is subjective, and is in the eye of the Reader. Imposing guidelines, or saying "That is not appropriate" is elitism.

https://www.gayauthors.org/topmembers/

Edited October 31, 2017 by BHopper2

drpaladin · October 31, 2017

We have enough guidelines now to keep track of.

Timothy M. · October 31, 2017

To me the main difference between Reviews and Comments on the story itself, apart from the ability to give a star rating, is the fact that the author can reply to the comments but not to reviews.

I can see your point @William King since I wouldn't find a review only saying 'I liked the story' particularly helpful. On the other hand, I agree with everyone else that people should be free to write as much or as little as they want to or are able to. The reward for a long or well-written review should simply be that more readers press the Yes Helpful button, which shifts such reviews to the top of the list.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Timothy M.

LitLover · October 31, 2017

When I look at this issue I have a different opinion as an author than I do as a reader. I read ravenously.. here and elsewhere, and as a reader I like to check reviews to see overall what was said about the writing and the viability of the plot, etc. An ‘I liked it’ isn’t particularly helpful except that I at least know the reader did like the book. The star ratings also help me, so I do appreciate those.

Conversely, as author my opinion is that I appreciate any comment or review a reader might choose to leave, regardless of how long or short it is. I appreciate even a thumbs up emoji with no other words being said.

Long story short... I see both sides of this issue, but I think the social nature of GA, and the interaction and friendships between authors and readers, means that most reviews will not be the same as you might find on Goodreads or other book/story sites.

Drew Espinosa · October 31, 2017

Haven't we been over this before?

8 hours ago, William King said:

That's great, but doesn't give any information about the book and whether I might want to read it. I wonder if members are posting comments as reviews so that they might rate the story five stars, or perhaps because that's how it was in the past, before the update. If this is the case, then it might be a good move to get rid of star ratings.

William, the information about the book has already been provided- by the author. Through story descriptions and tags. Now, if you feel that is still unsatisfactory, and the reviews aren't helpful, then read the first chapter or two of the story in question. Were you sucked into the story that you read more than the first couple of chapters? Great, you like the story! Were you feeling "meh" afterwards, then you probably won't like it.

It's really that simple. You don't need reviews that conform to a certain standard to figure out if you'll like a story or not.

Brayon · October 31, 2017

51 minutes ago, LitLover said:

means that most reviews will not be the same as you might find on Goodreads or other book/story sites.

I feel that this is the crux of the issue. While GA hosts some ebooks for sale in it's store, the vast majority of stories posted here, are not fully published works. They are not ebooks, or printed material. Our stories are crafted by writers, who are mostly non-professionals, who love to write, and do so in our spare time. We may or may not, be as polished as a professional, and some stories may go on to become ebooks or prints.

In my opinion GA is not Goodreads, nor is it Barnes-n-Nobles, or Boarders, or B. Dalton's, or Waldenbook's, or Amazon, or Books-a-Million, or the Ma and Pa Used Book Store down the street. We're different, more a social site dedicate to those that like to write or read stories based on GLBT characters in a wide variety of scenarios. A place that is inclusive to those that like our type of stories.

Carlos Hazday · October 31, 2017

@William King

Please do not allow the avalanche of opposing views deter you from stating your opinion in the future. It's refreshing to have someone speak out when they feel strongly about something. I happen to agree with you. If one type of reaction is called comments and another one reviews, to me they're so labeled because they're meant to be different. There are many fragile egos unable to handle real reviews where weaknesses are pointed out and I'm glad you're not amongst them. You encouraged me to be honest in my reviewing of your work and I've tried to do so. I don't write many because authors (and some 'fans) have jumped all over me for being honest and critical in the past.

I do appreciate all feedback, but often wish more readers would let me know how my writing skills help or hinder their enjoyment of something I post. Or if something in the story doesn't make sense. I spend countless hours trying to present a quality product and so does my support team, but I'm not perfect and never will be, even though I continue to strive to reach that elusive goal.

Let's see how many people get ticked off at me over this!

Edited October 31, 2017 by Carlos Hazday

FormerMember4 · October 31, 2017

14 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

@William King

Please do not allow the avalanche of opposing views deter you from stating your opinion in the future. It's refreshing to have someone speak out when they feel strongly about something. I happen to agree with you. If one type of reaction is called comments and another one reviews, to me they're so labeled because they're meant to be different. There are many fragile egos unable to handle real reviews where weaknesses are pointed out and I'm glad you're not amongst them. You encouraged me to be honest in my reviewing of your work and I've tried to do so. I don't write many because authors (and some 'fans) have jumped all over me for being honest and critical in the past.

I do appreciate all feedback, but often wish more readers would let me know how my writing skills help or hinder their enjoyment of something I post. Or if something in the story doesn't make sense. I spend countless hours trying to present a quality product and so does my support team, but I'm not perfect and never will be, even though I continue to strive to reach that elusive goal.

Let's see how many people get ticked off at me over this!

I agree with his assessment. I don't think feasible on this site. Due to engagement and reader base. Yes, a review should be a synopsis of book with strengths and weaknesses. Where the comment should be I love the book, author, etc.

mogwhy · October 31, 2017

12 minutes ago, BlindAmbition said:

I agree with his assessment. I don't think feasible on this site. Due to engagement and reader base. Yes, a review should be a synopsis of book with strengths and weaknesses. Where the comment should be I love the book, author, etc.

thank you, thank you, @BlindAmbition ! i have so been looking for the difference between a review and a comment. this was so helpful. i tend not to leave either because mine always sound so pathetic. i'm working on leaving more.

Mikiesboy · October 31, 2017

42 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

@William King

Please do not allow the avalanche of opposing views deter you from stating your opinion in the future. It's refreshing to have someone speak out when they feel strongly about something. I happen to agree with you. If one type of reaction is called comments and another one reviews, to me they're so labeled because they're meant to be different. There are many fragile egos unable to handle real reviews where weaknesses are pointed out and I'm glad you're not amongst them. You encouraged me to be honest in my reviewing of your work and I've tried to do so. I don't write many because authors (and some 'fans) have jumped all over me for being honest and critical in the past.

I do appreciate all feedback, but often wish more readers would let me know how my writing skills help or hinder their enjoyment of something I post. Or if something in the story doesn't make sense. I spend countless hours trying to present a quality product and so does my support team, but I'm not perfect and never will be, even though I continue to strive to reach that elusive goal.

Let's see how many people get ticked off at me over this!

C, if you or anyone else wants proper in depth reviews, I'm sure you can find people to give them to you. The site i used write on gave them. It was a surprise to me when i got here GA was different. But it is. You want in-depth stuff ask for volunteers who have a great understanding of grammar, punctuation, character development, story flow etc. Maybe some will step forward. But this i get from my editor and reader.

But otherwise.. we have what we have. I know you like real... and you get it from me... and i'm sure others.

And anyone can say anything here as far as I'm concerned but people also have the same right to disagree with the opinion they are answering.

tim

Edited October 31, 2017 by Mikiesboy

Renee Stevens · October 31, 2017

Simple answer:

Reviews are looking at the book as a WHOLE. Reviews CAN but don't have to be, in depth. Reviews can ONLY be posted after a story is earmarked as Complete. You can only leave one "Review" per story.

Comments are about that particular chapter. Comments CAN, but don't have to be, in depth. Comments can be left on a story at any time. You can leave multiple comments about a single chapter.

If you only want "in depth reviews" then in your final chapter, in the chapter note, consider posting something such as:

Quote

Now that this story is complete, maybe you'd like to review it! It would be helpful to me as the author if you could answer the following questions (or other questions relating to your story).

What did you like about the story?

What did you dislike about the story?

Who was your favorite character and why?

I will warn you now though, that not everyone is going to want to answer those questions and your reviews may suffer because of it.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Renee Stevens
To add suggestion for those who only want in-depth reviews.

Myr · October 31, 2017

Please note, I'm going to provide two responses to this thread. The first one is official and the second is personal.

Admin response:

Story Comments are provided for at all stages of a story's posting. Reviews are provided for when a story is complete. Would it be nice for a review to be in depth? Hell yes. the "Was this useful?" is a subtle way to encourage that. I find reviews that are more detailed of pluses and minuses more helpful and mark them accordingly. As an author though, as covered elsewhere, a star rating and I liked it is still better than nothing. Beta Readers and Editors should be providing these critical reviews to the author... or they aren't really a beta reader or an editor.

My personal response:

In the fifteen years of running this site, I have tried pretty much everything to get more reader engagement with the authors. This has built the community well enough, but we still lack much in the way of comments and reviews. I've said this in various places... but only about 2% of the site traffic can even do so. Most people reading on Gay Authors are not members at all.

Forcing a format does not work. The most it will do is stop people from reviewing at all. If you want more than you are getting, then engage your readers. Ask them in the chapter end note or in the story note to give a detailed response. Tell them you want to know what works and what doesn't. If they like what they are reading enough, they just might do as you ask. Some people certainly aren't going to say something if they are afraid they are going to melt a snowflake.

@William King In the interest in providing feedback that you crave, I'm going to say this: you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Your suggestion that we promote a story a month... we already do this and the amount of effort that goes into it doesn't leave much room for more without more active volunteers. It is still linked on the bottom of the main forum page and in ads running on the site:

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