Do Readers Prefer Happy or Sad Ending

[CassieQ]

6 hours ago, Jason Rimbaud said:

In reading all the comments, the question I asked was flawed. Though I do have the answer I needed and @CassieQ said it best, happy or sad it must be satisfying. 

I was thinking of this earlier and have an example of an unsatisfying ending.  I was reading a book that had a very beautiful,  tragic wrap up that I was really pleased with.  It hurt in the right way.  But then, during the last chapter or the epilouge, I can't remember which, the author basically wiped away everything prior that had happened and  completely changed the narrative to make a more upbeat, happy ending.  I absolutely hated that she did that and still think it was a cowardly out.  My sister, who recommended the book, liked the ending so that it was less depressing.   

[Jason Rimbaud]

33 minutes ago, CassieQ said:

I was thinking of this earlier and have an example of an unsatisfying ending.  I was reading a book that had a very beautiful,  tragic wrap up that I was really pleased with.  It hurt in the right way.  But then, during the last chapter or the epilouge, I can't remember which, the author basically wiped away everything prior that had happened and  completely changed the narrative to make a more upbeat, happy ending.  I absolutely hated that she did that and still think it was a cowardly out.  My sister, who recommended the book, liked the ending so that it was less depressing.   

I am in agreement with you, epilogue's rarely work for me, they tend to undo all that has gone before. Not always, but more than not, epilogue's can easily ruin the ending, especially when it's not to tease a sequel but instead when it's used to put that irresistible bow on the narrative. 

On a different note, can I open your brain and get more tidbits from you, asking for a friend of course.  

[PrivateTim]

On 9/4/2024 at 7:47 PM, MichaelS36 said:

I find this question rather inane. 

It sounds like you need a new beta reader. 

Why do I find this answer, combined with your bottom 'tag line' - Judge not, that you be not judged hilarious?

[PrivateTim]

Who needs more sadness? Who needs more reality? How about a little hope?

[Jason Rimbaud]

50 minutes ago, PrivateTim said:

Who needs more sadness? Who needs more reality? How about a little hope?

After certain events I would have a hard time arguing against this statement. 

[W_L]

As a writer, I prefer to be honest with my ending based on the circumstances of the characters, setting, and plot. 

As a reader, I prefer an ending with the possibility for more stories or imaginative potential (The end of one story should not just be "The End")

As a beta reader, I prefer an ending where the writer follows through on his promises within the story, so my efforts and time were valued.

---------

It's hard to put value judgement on an ending, depending on my role and perspective. 

[Ron]

6 hours ago, W_L said:

As a beta reader, I prefer an ending where the writer follows through on his promises within the story, so my efforts and time were valued.

I get what you’re saying. But then you’re basing your feelings on a subjective relationship that you have with the story, the author and what you believe is best for the story. If you feel that your efforts aren’t in keeping with your values, interests, belief system — even belief in the story itself — then you’re within your rights to request that you are not connected to the work, and not cited with the work.
 

Beta-readers provide a valuable resource. I don’t believe anyone would equivocate the need for them. I get, also, that a beta-reader is invested in the author’s work. In the end it’s a choice of making a case for your efforts (if you disagree) and if rebuffed you either bow out or accept that you will be attached to the work.

And… thank you for your service. Taking on being a beta-reader is no easy task.

[Talo Segura]

I find the beta reader concept difficult to comprehend here. I looked it up in Wiki: Typically, a beta reader reviews a draft that has gone through at least one revision. An alpha reader reviews a draft that is still without an ending or is completely unrevised. 

A proofreader usually only looks at grammar and spelling and is a paid professional, while a beta reader is more holistic in their scope. A critique partner is a trained writer who test reads from the perspective of an author, while a beta reader is a trained reader, test reading from the perspective of a typical reader. A sensitivity reader is a specific type of beta reader who is from a culture that the author is not familiar with.

If this is about accurate definition of roles, then where are the alpha readers? It would be that role which inputs to the ending and storyline, plot, in general, reading a first rough draft. The proof reader would be the editor role here. The order would obviously be alpha reader, beta reader, proof reader/ editor. It seems to me the primary role is alpha reader, the beta reader is not going to have too much influence, a tweak here and there to the story. The alpha reader could change a lot. The proof reader/editor is the valuable final step before publication.

I recently helped a friend and new writer taking on the role of alpha reader. As there's no such creditation on the site he credited me with co-author status. I'm not entirely happy with that, but I suppose it fits, because beta reader doesn't.

[ReaderPaul]

8 minutes ago, Talo Segura said:

     I find the beta reader concept difficult to comprehend here. I looked it up in Wiki: Typically, a beta reader reviews a draft that has gone through at least one revision. An alpha reader reviews a draft that is still without an ending or is completely unrevised. 
     A proofreader usually only looks at grammar and spelling and is a paid professional, while a beta reader is more holistic in their scope. A critique partner is a trained writer who test reads from the perspective of an author, while a beta reader is a trained reader, test reading from the perspective of a typical reader. A sensitivity reader is a specific type of beta reader who is from a culture that the author is not familiar with.
     If this is about accurate definition of roles, then where are the alpha readers? It would be that role which inputs to the ending and storyline, plot, in general, reading a first rough draft. The proof reader would be the editor role here. The order would obviously be alpha reader, beta reader, proof reader/ editor. It seems to me the primary role is alpha reader, the beta reader is not going to have too much influence, a tweak here and there to the story. The alpha reader could change a lot. The proof reader/editor is the valuable final step before publication.
     I recently helped a friend and new writer taking on the role of alpha reader. As there's no such creditation on the site he credited me with co-author status. I'm not entirely happy with that, but I suppose it fits, because beta reader doesn't.

I think that a beta reader can have all three roles.  However, in most cases an author retains final control (with a few possible exceptions) on most sites which are free.  (If one is under contract to a traditional publishing company and is paid for the story/article/non-fiction work, that is different.)

I was a beta reader for a cousin who published four books through a traditional publishing company.  I read and made suggestions for her last three.  Some she took; some she did not.  I caught one major error of continuity that she corrected immediately.  

The author/beta reader relationship is defined -- in the end -- by the two persons themselves.  What they agree upon is what will happen -- unless they are under a paid editorial contract which constrains the final product.

[Mattyboy]

5 hours ago, Talo Segura said:

I find the beta reader concept difficult to comprehend here. I looked it up in Wiki: Typically, a beta reader reviews a draft that has gone through at least one revision. An alpha reader reviews a draft that is still without an ending or is completely unrevised. 

A proofreader usually only looks at grammar and spelling and is a paid professional, while a beta reader is more holistic in their scope. A critique partner is a trained writer who test reads from the perspective of an author, while a beta reader is a trained reader, test reading from the perspective of a typical reader. A sensitivity reader is a specific type of beta reader who is from a culture that the author is not familiar with.

If this is about accurate definition of roles, then where are the alpha readers?  [ . . .]

I think around here, quite a few people who are labelled or who label themselves beta readers  are doing both alpha and beta jobs by your definition, and in particular making comments on structure and narrative arc (especially in longer ongoing serials).

I was unaware of the term "alpha reader" before your post,  but I followed your example and looked it up and, yes, some people make that distinction.   I think beta reader as it's commonly used around here is more analogous with a beta test (the last testing and modifications before it goes out to the public)  rather than alpha-is-first-stage and beta-is-second-stage.    

[LJCC]

2 hours ago, Mattyboy said:

I think around here, quite a few people who are labelled or who label themselves beta readers  are doing both alpha and beta jobs by your definition, and in particular making comments on structure and narrative arc (especially in longer ongoing serials).

I was unaware of the term "alpha reader" before your post,  but I followed your example and looked it up and, yes, some people make that distinction.   I think beta reader as it's commonly used around here is more analogous with a beta test (the last testing and modifications before it goes out to the public)  rather than alpha-is-first-stage and beta-is-second-stage.    

True.

Alpha readers are generally your editor, in a sense, because if he or she is providing feedback on your partially finished or drafted work while constructing commentary regarding the overall theme of your writing/novel, then they're also an alpha reader. Like they'd give feedback on what's working or what feels weak in the overarching theme of your story. For example, the pacing at the start feels weak and needs to be more punchy, or the plot is great until you swing the story to the far left of the totem pole, where it suddenly shifts into a dramedy that feels off---stick to drama.

On the other hand, beta readers are usually used near the end of the finish line. Like publishing companies would hire 3 or 5 Beta Readers then set up a panel interview to get feedback on the drafted manuscript. Their feedback is essential as the penultimate step before the last and final edit before the novel is set to production.

It's also hard to find beta readers willing enough to provide constructive criticism on an unfinished manuscript, ESPECIALLY if they're unpaid. They approach your writing as casual readers, reflecting the entirety of your reader base, where their feedback revolves around inconsistencies and overall character mapping and story plotting like: Is X supposed to be dumbass? X keeps doing the same shit and it's pissing me off. X is great until B shows up. Is X meant to be written like this? If yes, then why? 

I have a friend who had a beta reader say to his panel feedback session, "Is your protagonist supposed to be an idiot? He keeps 'curling' his lips. Does he have a tick?" And then he realised upon inspection that he kept putting dialog tags and description as, "he curled his lips" 28x throughout his novel. 😂

Beta readers are meant to be brutally upfront. Otherwise, you're not getting what you paid for. Because the assumption is, what they're thinking is what your readers will be saying.