writing Whatever happened to editing?

[Tim Hobson]

OK, I admit this is a rant. Sorry if it doesn't belong in this forum, and @Mikiesboy can delete it if he wants to, but I have to say this.

I don't mean to pick on anybody, but I spend far more time time rereading and editing my work than I do writing it. I have an editor and a beta reader, who catch things I miss. In short, I take editing seriously (OK, perhaps it's an obsession).

So why do so many of the stories posted here have such glaring errors (e.g., misspelled words, words duplicated or missing, poor grammar -- Who doesn't know the difference between "and I" and "and me"? -- etc.).

I'm surprised and disappointed at times when these errors are so obvious, even coming from Prolific writers (does "prolific" only refer to quantity and not quality?) and in Premium content (why should I pay extra for poorly-written stories?).

I know we're all amateurs, and perhaps the story is more important than the telling, but it certainly takes away from my enjoyment to have to skip over mistakes that somebody should have caught. I sometimes give up and quit reading a badly-written piece.

And I know that my own writing (including my latest story that posts tomorrow) sometimes contains a flub or two, but when someone points them out or I spot them when I'm reading online, I make the correction and re-release the story. At least I make the greatest possible effort to write without such simple mistakes.

I hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I had to get it off my chest. Otherwise, why do I bother to edit at all?

[spyke]

I think that anyone who publishes on this website is being incredibly generous and giving of their time and talents, and I appreciate them, typos and all. 

I do understand what you are saying, though. I've pointed out things to authors in the past, but I do so privately through a message and not in the comments. Most authors are gracious and appreciative. Some are not. One author seemed to not understand the difference between to and too. When I tried to point out an error, it was met with a firm rebuttal. Even though I explained that "too" was an adverb that pointed out quantity or an addition (I'm going too.),  and "to" was more indicative of direction or destination (I'm going to the store), they still didn't get it. I didn't push the issue because it really wasn't that important and it wasn't my writing.  

I think that anyone who writes can get tunnel vision and screen blinded, so errors are easy to miss. Back in the day when I was in college, I could look at a paper that I was writing and I could sense that something was wrong, but I couldn't see/find it until I printed it out.  To this day, I print out and review the important stuff, but I blame my first college English professor for that. She gave some good advice when she reminded the class that spell check on a computer does not know the difference between public and pubic. 

In the end, we all have different standards, and you have to do what works for you. Like I said, I'm always appreciative of any writer who shares their talent on this site. 

 

 

[Kitt]

Something that should also be taken into consideration is the context. A character who is a 16 yr old drop out living on a farm that sounds like an ivy league educated English prof just does not ring true.

That is not to say the overall work should not be grammatically correct, but sometimes incorrect is the way to go.

And that is coming from someone who has edited for several authors here and earned herself the moniker "that nazi".

[Mikiesboy]

2 hours ago, Tim Hobson said:

don't mean to pick on anybody, but I spend far more time time rereading and editing my work than I do writing it.

Rants are allowed!  

Mmm, yes, I agree with you. Many authors here don't care about editing or getting their work as 'right' as possible. These authors are praised and begged for more. Why would they want to change?

 

[Tim Hobson]

2 minutes ago, Kitt said:

Something that should also be taken into consideration is the context. A character who is a 16 yr old drop out living on a farm that sounds like an ivy league educated English prof just does not ring true.

That is not to say the overall work should not be grammatically correct, but sometimes incorrect is the way to go.

And that is coming from someone who has edited for several authors here and earned herself the moniker "that nazi".

I hope I didn't imply that. I agree and also use all sorts of slang, profanity, and "spoken English" in dialog, but I'm talking about content outside that narrow realm. I could supply actual examples, but that would offend the writers, and it is not my intention to do that.

I guess I got up on the wrong side of the bed today. I value the creativity and cleverness of GA writers, but I lose a little respect for those whose work clearly needs at least basic editing (e.g., spellcheck and free Grammarly), and I sometimes get so tired of the mistakes that I don't read further.

I suppose it's because I put a lot of effort into the editing process that it irks me when others don't appear to. Now that I think about it more abstractly, I sense that my feeling may be an extension of the national malaise over not being able to persuade other people to "do the right thing." Mea culpa!

One more thought: I also read stories on Nifty and a couple of other sites, and the difference between those and GA posts is like night and day. I guess it's a kind of pride in being on GA that makes me want to highlight the professionalism and writing skills of my fellow writers here, and to wish for a little more care and precision from some of them.

[Tim Hobson]

2 minutes ago, Mikiesboy said:

Why would they want to change?

 

Indeed! Perhaps the only real solution is to be selective in which authors I read.

[chris191070]

In the time I've been with GA there's been a few stories that I've not been able to finish because of bad editing, but I have reviewed stories that are not 100% perfect. Some stories you have to take account of the type of person as @Kitt said.

With my own writing I try to get them as near as perfect as possible, but im quite sure that mistakes have slipped through.

Edited yesterday at 03:03 PM by chris191070

[Mikiesboy]

12 minutes ago, chris191070 said:

With my own writing I try to get them as near as perfect as possible, but im quite sure that mistakes have slipped through.

That happens to all of us.

That said, we are amateurs, meaning we do what we do for the love of it. Amateur comes from the Latin amator, ‘lover,’ from amare, ‘to love.’  I've said this before, but my favourite quote about this word comes from a film called A Christmas Without Snow.

The scene is the choir master, Ephraim, who is dealing with who will get the solo. One woman, an opera-like soprano, is angry because she wasn't offered the part...she called the choir amateurs.... Ephraim Adams: Mrs. Burns is right, of course; you are amateurs, unlike certain pseudo-professionals like myself who insist on slave wages. Your voluntary and steadfast attendance at these rehearsals fully qualifies you for any definition of the word "amateur." What Mrs. Burns and many others are wrong about is the meaning of the word, which has to do with motivation, not quality. Remember "amo, amat, amas", the Latin verb "to love". The meaning of "amateur" is "he or she who does a thing for the love of it." There is no higher reason for singing than the love of doing it. In that respect, you do qualify as amateurs. And I salute you for it.

 

[Flip-Flop]

16 hours ago, Tim Hobson said:

and in Premium content (why should I pay extra for poorly-written stories?).

I consider premium content to be a donation by the authors to help the site to encourage readers to become Premium members. Premium membership  enables GA to pay the bills that come from maintenance. site upgrades, and keeping this site up and running, and yes available to all. There are so many people who donate their time and efforts to maintain the standards of GA, and keep it up and running. I (a long time reader) joined when I heard they were running in the red, and needed help keeping the quality and the site online and not at a financial  deficit. I also enjoy the ad free reading that premium membership provides❣️ A site supporter needs to support the site, if possible.  

[chris191070]

15 minutes ago, Flip-Flop said:

I consider premium content to be a donation by the authors to help the site to encourage readers to become Premium members. Premium membership  enables GA to pay the bills that come from maintenance. site upgrades, and keeping this site up and running, and yes available to all. There are so many people who donate their time and efforts to maintain the standards of GA, and keep it up and running. I (a long time reader) joined when I heard they were running in the red, and needed help keeping the quality and the site online and not at a financial  deficit. I also enjoy the ad free reading that premium membership provides❣️ A site supporter needs to support the site, if possible.  

 Exactly, the site subscription each month is the price of a good book and we have access to hundreds of stories and a well run site, with plenty of features 😀 

[CassieQ]

I always make sure my stories are edited.  I recognize my own shortcomings in that area, so often utilize an additional editor for most of my stories and they have all been phenomenal.  However, every so often a reader will notice a mistake or error and point them out.  They are usually small, and easy to fix, and something that my eyes, which have read the same thing over and over and over, just didn't catch.  So no one is perfect, but a story that is obviously full of mistakes and errors, like has not even been proofread, would be 1) hard to read and 2) hard for me to believe it's going to be a quality story, if the author couldn't even be fussed to fix glaring problems.  There are exceptions, I think it's important to be lenient with writers who are using a second language, etc.  But I think editing is part of the writing process, and needs to be learned, at least the basics.    

Most of the stories  I read on site are edited well.  Those that aren't, I just don't read.   

[CassieQ]

On 1/6/2025 at 7:29 AM, Tim Hobson said:

even coming from Prolific writers (does "prolific" only refer to quantity and not quality?)

I think on this site, it does.  Prolific writers are listed by number of words, I believe.  If you want more quality, I would look at the Promising/Classic/Signature writers, or check the top recommendations on the story page.  Those are usually solid.    

Edited 9 hours ago by CassieQ

[CassieQ]

On 1/6/2025 at 9:43 AM, Kitt said:

Something that should also be taken into consideration is the context. A character who is a 16 yr old drop out living on a farm that sounds like an ivy league educated English prof just does not ring true.

I get this, but there is a considerable difference between having a character who might have bad grammar because of upbringing/situation and grammar mistakes in the writing of the story.  If I read a character who had awful grammar in thoughts/dialogue but the rest of the story was fine, I wouldn't think that the writer was a bad editor.  It's two different things to me.    

[Kitt]

4 hours ago, CassieQ said:

I get this, but there is a considerable difference between having a character who might have bad grammar because of upbringing/situation and grammar mistakes in the writing of the story.  If I read a character who had awful grammar in thoughts/dialogue but the rest of the story was fine, I wouldn't think that the writer was a bad editor.  It's two different things to me.    

Which is what I said in paragraph two.

[CassieQ]

1 hour ago, Kitt said:

Which is what I said in paragraph two.

I don't think that came across for me.  That'll teach me to read before coffee.    Sorry for misunderstanding.