Motivation and Feedback - Authors, Choose Best Answers

[unilive]

As someone has said, no feedback is indifference, which is worse than negative feedback. Getting likes is good enough for me to be honest but I always wonder why readers don't have anything to say, it can be frustrating when you've spent hours and hours writing and all you want is to share your work with others.

Receiving no feedback when posting a chapter has made me want to stop writing my story many times, and well, I guess I have stopped writing in part because of this.

[Daddydavek]

Comments are always optional as are "likes" for members.  Guests, or those who open the site but don't login can't leave either.  

For me, a like or a comment is a bonus: Even if it is a bit critical.

I no longer have any time to write, but when my grandson who will be three in July goes to pre-school and school I hope to have time to write some more. 

I try to leave a comment on what I've read, but if everything I want to say has already been said by others, I don't see much benefit in merely being repetitive.  If all I can do is leave negative feedback, I usually refrain from commenting unless it is to complain that the chapter was too short.  (Ask Carlos!)

My position on this has evolved over time.  Time constraints forced me to change to this position as earlier I wanted everyone to comment, no matter what. 

 

[Wombat Bill]

I love feedback, it is part of my morning routine. When you live on the other side of the world to most English speaking countries, your work is generally read while you are dreaming  up your next chapter. So first thing in the morning, kettle on, jiggle the teabag, crank up the old laptop and settle back to see what has been said overnight. It makes my morning to hear from my readers, or lapse into a deep depression if they have been silent. 

But, expecting non-reactors to jump straight into commenting might be a big ask. There seems to be many readers out there that don't even give a reaction, when it's so easy. 

I know the views count is not an accurate measure of the number of times a chapter has been read but I usually get only 10 reactions from over a hundred views. Maybe we need to work on these readers. Many will no doubt be guests but a proportion must be members. Let's work on turning these into reactors then commenters. 

I like the idea suggested, that guests be limited in the number of chapters they can read without becoming members. 

Maybe an administrator could answer this regarding the views count. Does it count every time a reader opens the chapter page. eg. I read the chapter (1), I come back later to give a reaction (2), then after consideration I go back again to leave a comment (3). then a few days later when reading another chapter, I need to refer to a previous chapter to clarify something (4). So far I may have clocked up 4 views. Is this assumption correct.

I love this site and my followers, it has given me a reason to write, after assuming for 70 years that I could not. 

[Myr]

25 minutes ago, Wombat Bill said:

only 10 reactions from over a hundred views. Maybe we need to work on these readers. Many will no doubt be guests but a proportion must be members.

We are about 100 guests to 1 member reading stories.  (Where guest means new person or person not signed into their account).  So, get 10 reactions out of 100 views is pretty good, actually.

27 minutes ago, Wombat Bill said:

Does it count every time a reader opens the chapter page

Yes, with some mild protections and caching going on.

[Cia]

On 4/22/2021 at 7:49 PM, Headstall said:

 

Reading this over, it feels like I'm whining. Yes, I do get lots of comments and great support from some wonderful readers. I should say those readers are also gold to me... and are greatly appreciated. They have given me fuel ever since my first attempt at writing. Cheers.   

I don't think it's whining. I do think we all go through slumps with our writing when it can be VERY hard to find motivation to keep going. Sometimes that's within a specific story itself, sometimes it's just within a part of the plot arc, and sometimes that's just in life. And that motivation we need to keep going can come in different forms for different people; what is important to one author is not to another. That's something this topic has clearly highlighted. 

It's been very interesting reading all the different viewpoints in this discussion. Thank you to everyone who has participated so far. Keep the thoughts coming!! 

[Black Paper]

The reality is, all authors and artists only want one true thing: we all strive for someone to feel something from something we've created. And the validation that we receive from feedback via comments and/or reactions gives us the validation that someone has received something from something we've created. All stories have pieces of us authors, hidden, inside of them whether it's certain characters, certain scenes, etc. And by having others love those characters and scenes, they are secretly loving us, because, we are in them. If certain people do not like the thumbs up reaction, I simply recommend that the like reaction be removed and be replaced with the love reaction and have the love reaction be the new like reaction just like Instagram and other social media platforms use the heart as the only like reaction icon platform for that very same reason.

 

Thank you.

Black Paper🌙

[Mrsgnomie]

16 hours ago, headtransplant said:

Loving this conversation.

I’m interested in the thread about comments that include constructive feedback. I’ve participated in writing websites where feedback aimed at helping the author improve is the norm. Comments on those sites might include copy editing, suggestions on pacing/plotting, and character development, etc.

If the community you were in before was based around helping authors improve, then constructive feedback would be inline with that and welcomed. I could see how that might not be received as well in the comment section of GA. I think it would be weird to have half the comments coming from a readers perspective and telling the emotions they felt as they read it, what they enjoyed, or predicting what might happen, while the other half is in the form of critiquing. I'd rather have one or the other. But not together lol

[W_L]

2 hours ago, Black Paper said:

The reality is, all authors and artists only want one true thing: we all strive for someone to feel something from something we've created. And the validation that we receive from feedback via comments and/or reactions gives us the validation that someone has received something from something we've created. All stories have pieces of us authors, hidden, inside of them whether it's certain characters, certain scenes, etc. And by having others love those characters and scenes, they are secretly loving us, because, we are in them. If certain people do not like the thumbs up reaction, I simply recommend that the like reaction be removed and be replaced with the love reaction and have the love reaction be the new like reaction just like Instagram and other social media platforms use the heart as the only like reaction icon platform for that very same reason.

 

Thank you.

Black Paper🌙

I do agree that part of the positive comments and likes are validation of our creations, it's an incredible motivator for writers to hear readers say "I like this scene..." or "I know how it feels..." and so on. Characters and plots are hard to come up with, so any acknowledgement is tremendous. Creation is a difficult process, from the act to communicate your ideas into your chosen medium (stories, poetry, blogs, videos, or stream shows) to editing to final publication for general audiences. In 2021, we have a lot more ways to communicate than we did when GA first started and there's a lot more ways for readers to connect with their favorite authors.

I write based on my interests, but I also have done a lot more beta reading as years have gone by. I think part of the writer experience is the need for someone to bounce ideas off of. I have a non-binary friend, not part of GA, who enjoys Medieval/Magic fantasy stories and I beta read for them. Sometimes having just that little voice from a beta reader helps to show someone cares. Having a fun reader-writer interaction can also help improve their writing morale, plus it gives you as a writer, acting as a beta reader, more thoughts on your own writing process. My writing style changes are in response to my interactions.

[Cynus]

I am somewhat in the "I will write no matter what" camp, but mine is entirely reflective of my mental state. Over the past two years (until very recently), I have been in a fugue state magnified tenfold by the pandemic. Probably the only reason I decided to return to the keyboard at all after that was because of the few readers who kept tabs on me and kept reaching out to support me in various ways. I don't know that the feedback is always vital to me, but sometimes it's the lifeline when you're feeling like you'll never be able to achieve what you want to with your work, and I think in that sense I'd rather hear it all the time, whether good or bad, even if it isn't normally the prime motivator behind my writing. It's comforting to know the ghosts are there sometimes.

[Arch Hunter]

I don't know if it's possible to implement it but maybe we could add social media sign up options? Since there are so many guests, maybe it would encourage some more people to create accounts.

Also, would it be possible to make "like" buttons clickable and comment text areas visible for guests? They could click them and be prompted to create an account. I know we're limited by the system here but just throwing ideas.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Arch Hunter

[Mrsgnomie]

6 hours ago, W_L said:

 Having a fun reader-writer interaction can also help improve their writing morale, plus it gives you as a writer, acting as a beta reader, more thoughts on your own writing process. My writing style changes are in response to my interactions.

This. I only post stories once they are completed BUT reader feedback has often inspired me or helped me see holes or areas that I could improve on. I’m always tweaking future chapters based on interactions and feedback from readers. They’re awesome beta readers and they don’t even know if. My writing/stories improve because they take the time to comment and give feedback. 

[lilansui]

I think that it is also important to ask Readers what inspires them to write a comment, or react to something they have read.  Authors, we are creative and very in need of feedback.  Readers, they read and stick along a series or short story depending on how much it captures their attention.  I will confess to reading stories on this site, and others,  going straight through an authors entire catalogue until I find a story they haven't finished.  Then, because I want to know when it will be finished, I ask the author, or write a message, "hey, when will the next chapter be up?"

Authors, I know you have probably experienced this, and it is a very interesting thing because you might never have known this person read you, until they write that question, or felt the need to connect with you until you had not finished a story they really wanted to read.  Otherwise, they finish reading, and wait for your next one and read you, until you stop.

So, the case study here should be with the reader.  What inspires a reader to write a comment?  Why are they gripped by your content enough to want to let you know how it affected them?  Why they 'liked' it?  Why did it entertain them enough to write a comment or hit a button?

So, as a writer who also reads, here is my experience on why comments or likes.  I will say that the times I didn't comment, I might have been reading in transit or between meetings, or even just waiting for someone.  I read and didn't get a chance to write a comment.  When I reach my destination/met my someone or started a meeting, I moved on to my daily tasks, the moment is lost.  When I did like and comment, it was because I had to comment and like, it mattered for me to comment and like.  It often happens right away with no hesitation.  I wonder what everyone's experiences with this is?

[Comicality]

 

My personal thoughts? I don't think that there is any real way to 'make' any reader reply or comment on your work. There's no blueprint, no program, no amount of self promotion, that can guarantee that it'll ever happen. And that's hard to hear. It's hard to say, honestly. I think that the quality of the writing you find here on GayAuthors, in such an abundance, might actually take that personal struggle that we authors go through with every last sentence that we type out, and put it in a place where readers don't think they can contact us, or have their comments seen by the writers they admire.

I mean, if I go to a movie theater and watch an awesome movie, or see an amazing show on Netflix, or hear an album by one of my favorite bands or artists...I don't send them emails or write fan letters or thank them for all the work and effort they put in. It just seems...I don't know...way too big for me. But, as many of the replies here have already stated, the interaction here on GA is so much different. Readers can TALK to us! In public, or one on one. And I think if we want to increase the feedback on the site (which isn't an easy task, by any means), I think it's going to come down to opening that door between readers and writer's and letting them know that we see them the way they see us. If that makes sense.

I post a bunch of different stories, and often multiple times a week. I don't expect readers to come up with something new to say for every single one of them. Like...I get it. Just, once in a while...maybe you send me a little nod to say thanks and let me know that you're enjoying the story. It really does help to hear that. Constructive criticism is welcome too. Because I know that readers don't see the story the way that I see it in my head. So, you'll either be pointing out a mistake that I should probably fix up...or I'll read it and stick to my original game plan, hoping that they'll see what I did with my story, and why I did it. So it's a win/win situation. I welcome it.

I do get bogged down and backed up on things from time to time, but I jump on GA every single night (Give or take), and I get an alert every time someone reacts or comments on any one of my stories. Whether I just posted it yesterday, or if I posted it five years ago. And I go through the entire list, I read every single comment, and I hit an emoji button to let them know that I saw it, I'm listening, and I thank them for taking 30 seconds to write a few seconds to let me know what they thought. And, honestly, a lot of people are surprised by that. I, unfortunately, can't answer them all personally, but I do what I can to let them know that I read what they said. And isn't that what we're looking for as writers? Knowing that someone read what we said?

Now, there will always be people who will just get their free entertainment and leave without ever putting a little 'thanks' in the church collection plate! Hehehe, there isn't much that we can do about that. But I would suggest that being more present, and interacting with readers as well as with each other, would be the way to go in terms of increasing feedback. We're not robots. We're not rich, we're not famous. We don't have a team of producers, and public relations people, and screenwriters working around the clock to run this thing like a business. Most of the time, it's one writer under a lamp, with a few quiet moments and a glass of whiskey. Hehehe!  

I'm willing to bet that they look at the quality AND the quantity of the work here, and they forget that. 

[James Carnarvon]

Glancing through this thread has made me doubly appreciate the time that readers take to write comments, when they do so. As someone said above, if you're catching up on someone else's story you aren't necessarily going to stop and write a comment at the end of every chapter. I haven't read that many stories on GA, but I know I've been guilty of reading most of them without offering anything in return.

First and foremost, I write stories for my own satisfaction. Once a story takes root in my head, it's cathartic to tell it, and I take real pleasure from creating something. However, there's no denying the power that reactions and especially comments can have as a source of encouragement and energy.

I can think of three main types of comment I've encountered on my writing at GA:

• Positive comments expressing enthusiasm and appreciation. These are nice to have.
• Critical comments (hopefully constructive). These definitely have their place, as they encourage me to try harder. However, I don't tend to act directly on suggestions specific to the story in question, as I always fully finish and edit my stories before I start to share chapters here.
• My absolute favourite sort of comment, though, doesn't even have to be positive or negative in tone. It's the type of comment - usually only provided when a story is 'in progress' - where the reader tells you how a chapter made them feel and/or reflects on the events or character beats with real insight. As a writer, there's no greater validation of your work, because it shows that you have reached your audience enough to make them really think about the story and its characters.

I wrote my novel 'The Summer of the Firefly' without any real expectation that I would ever get feedback or that anyone would even get to read it, and that was fine; I had still accomplished my goal. I didn't discover GA until years after I had written the first draft. However, without the great reactions and encouraging comments that I received as I posted the chapters here, I would never have written the two short stories that I shared here earlier this year (and nor would I be engaged in writing a full-length sequel now!).

Being so focused on my own writing - in the limited quiet time that I have available - has stopped me reading anyone else's stories on GA for the moment. However, when I eventually surface from the writing 'hole', I think I will try to read and comment a bit more. I know how valuable it can be for the writer to receive that feedback.

[Myr]

11 hours ago, Arch Hunter said:

I don't know if it's possible to implement it but maybe we could add social media sign up options? Since there are so many guests, maybe it would encourage some more people to create accounts.

We used to, but it had little to no use and maintaining the connection is a nightmare, frankly.

11 hours ago, Arch Hunter said:

Also, would it be possible to make "like" buttons clickable and comment text areas visible for guests? They could click them and be prompted to create an account. I know we're limited by the system here but just throwing ideas.

Sorry, no.  The system doesn't function that way and it's not worth it to rewrite the functions.  And it opens it to spam, which is why we don't allow guests to post.  Even with all the protections we have in place, spammers keep getting through.

5 hours ago, lilansui said:

So, the case study here should be with the reader.  What inspires a reader to write a comment?  Why are they gripped by your content enough to want to let you know how it affected them?  Why they 'liked' it?  Why did it entertain them enough to write a comment or hit a button?

We've tried asking in the past.  They don't answer the questions at any higher a rate then they comment or review.  However, I think one of the biggest hurdles is people tend to not log in, even if they have an account.  If they were logged in, it's very easy to hit a reaction, and many do.  But not staying logged in seems to be a big thing with lots of folks.

That said, we will reach out again in the future on this.  This sort of discussion recurs regularly over time, though this has been the best participation to date.

1 hour ago, James Carnarvon said:

My absolute favourite sort of comment, though, doesn't even have to be positive or negative in tone. It's the type of comment - usually only provided when a story is 'in progress' - where the reader tells you how a chapter made them feel and/or reflects on the events or character beats with real insight. As a writer, there's no greater validation of your work, because it shows that you have reached your audience enough to make them really think about the story and its characters.

Yeah, those are a great comment to come across.  Though I heard from @C James, The Cliffhanger, that if you write a cliffhanger and leave them waiting awhile, you can really generate some heat...

 

[Mrsgnomie]

7 hours ago, Myr said:

 Though I heard from @C James, The Cliffhanger, that if you write a cliffhanger and leave them waiting awhile, you can really generate some heat...

 

Ah, so this is the secret sauce? Good to know .

[Laura S. Fox]

A certain lack of readers' reactions and comments might have to do with a lot of external things. I think we can all agree that the overall behavior of someone reading works published online has transformed over the years. It is something I'm trying to wrap my head around, too. Since I publish my works in many places, and not just here, I can say that I am aware of such changes, albeit I cannot say what causes them exactly. But what I can say is that I have more comments and reactions here on hundreds of views than on sites where I have thousands. That means that GA truly does something good!

For instance, if someone reads most of the time on their phone, on their way to work - I think someone even mentioned this type of situation above - it's unlikely that they will start typing a comment. And, again, as someone else noticed, if they're not logged in, they won't even be able to leave a reaction.

Another thing I feel it's happening is a certain change in how people interact with the online environment. There are so many things competing for someone's attention. I'm not, thankfully, addicted to my phone, and I have no social media. But I noticed other people who have their feed constantly bombarded. They look at it, maybe laugh at that, or read a few sentences here and there, but they move on. And they don't even press a like or the equivalent of that, depending on the app! The notion of feed is quite adequate. They just get what comes on the conveyor belt, and they end up not reacting at all.

I know that it's a bit digression what I'm doing here, and I apologize. Here, on GA, someone who comes and reads engages in something definitely more profound than watching a feed on which funny videos and news roll one after another. However, that doesn't exclude the possibility of their behavior having been modified by this new type of online environment.

Another thing I want to mention is that maybe readers would like to feel rewarded for their interactions. There's nothing wrong with badges and the kind. New reading apps have them in place. I don't know if that motivates readers more to leave reactions and comments, but it is a thing. Some people have mentioned that it may cause disingenuous effects. I'm not saying that it's not true. I wouldn't think of that, though, as it would feel like I would suspect readers of being selfish all the time. But I noticed that people that might feel shy to interact, when they see that there are already some comments and reactions in place, they start to follow, too. So, 'productive' readers who leave reactions and comments might have a positive effect, even if they may only say something like 'I loved it' and leave a little heart.

Anyway, these are just some ideas, and I'm not sure if I did a good job at expressing them clearly. The way readers interact and what makes them tick is a pretty hot topic, that's for sure.

[Myr]

We figured out a way to change the "I Read it" to remove the perceived use as a passive-aggressive version of a like.  Hopefully this addresses authors concerns.

[Wayne Gray]

I'm going to write no matter what, but reader interaction is a huge motivator too.

I used to write a chapter, and post. Write a chapter, post. I would do this until I finished. This happened because I needed reader interaction to continue. I am shockingly lucky that I didn't give away the plot of Guarded thanks to this proclivity. Even if I had a story to tell, I needed this feedback. Now, it's a bit different. Now I've got the patience to complete a work, shape it, edit, let it be a while, reread the whole thing, edit more. Then, finally, pass it off to my editor for him to work his magic.

Still, reader interaction, comments, reactions, conversation between readers on chapters ... that's so fantastic. It's just nice. It's nice for our work to matter beyond ourselves.

I'm always going to write. But I will certainly write more if I know there's an audience which desires reading it.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Wayne Gray

[Myr]

3 minutes ago, Wayne Gray said:

I'm going to write no matter what, but reader interaction is a huge motivator too.

It seems a lot of us fall in this barrel.  Thanks for weighing in!

[astone2292]

8 hours ago, Myr said:

We figured out a way to change the "I Read it" to remove the perceived use as a passive-aggressive version of a like.  Hopefully this addresses authors concerns.

I love the new "Check It Out!" reaction! It's adorable, as well as the updates to the other reactions as well. The Like button is awesome, Myr! 

[Tim Hobson]

I'm new to this, and I have to confess I didn't know what to expect. The reactions are inscrutable; all they tell me is that someone read what I wrote and thought "something" about it. I do use them when I'm reading, for exactly that purpose.

Comments would be helpful if they actually offered an idea, a correction, or a critique. I almost want to write back and say, "Yes, I'm glad you're enjoying my story, and thank you for saying so... but is there anything else you'd like me to know? Any direction you're disappointed in or would like to see the story go?" And yet, comments do encourage me to keep writing and posting. I like the ones that inspire me to say something substantive in response.

I guess it's a love/hate relationship, or perhaps like having sex with a former lover - satisfying in one way, but not what I really needed. 😬

[Aditus]

@Tim Hobson

You seem to expect that readers aren't satisfied with your writing. What if they simply enjoyed reading the story and liked it and they let you know by using the reaction buttons? Not everyone is a book critic or does want to be one. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Aditus

[Tim Hobson]

15 minutes ago, Aditus said:

@Tim Hobson

You seem to expect that readers aren't satisfied with your writing. What, if they simply enjoyed reading the story and liked it and they let you know by using the reaction buttons? Not everyone is a book critic or does want to be one. 

The whole point is that I have just begun writing here, and I truly didn't know what to expect. Every prior effort to write and sell my books has fizzled, and I have no idea why. I was hoping that an interactive forum like GA would give me a better sense of whether it's worth writing or not. I have to admit that I have gotten a lot of encouragement from the handful of readers who take the time to comment, and perhaps that's the norm here. I just don't know what to expect...

[Mawgrim]

Selling books through a publisher is a whole different ballgame. First of all you need to find a publisher who is interested in your genre and see if they are currently accepting unsolicited submissions. Then follow their guidelines, send off what they require and wait... and wait... and wait. You may be lucky, you may not be. Generally if the first few paragraphs doesn't grab them, then they won't read any more.

I went on a writing course last week and the general advice was to keep on trying. It can be of benefit to get an author who already has published books in the same genre to critique what you have written first. I had two published authors look at the first chapter of the mystery novel I am currently writing and their comments have led me to a total re-writing frenzy! Basically, I hadn't started in the right place. You have to start bang in the middle of the action and leave exposition for later. 

People on GA are generally kind with their comments and most are just interested in a good read. They are not professional critics. I have tried posting chapters on sites such as critique circle, but most of the crits are from other unpublished writers, so you will get a wide variety of different comments, only some of which might help you. Getting feedback from two authors who know the industry has been far more useful.

Hope this helps you.