Poor Man's Son

[centexhairysub]

Hmmm....... Well, I believe there was only one US citizen on that doomed flight, what are the odds that it was our Kristen??? Can you imagine what it would do to Gathan to watch the plane crash and know his behaviour and secrets lead to Kristen's death? Can we say therapy for the rest of his life??? Even if she stays and survives will she and Gathan survive? It takes a special kind of person to be able to accept that their partner enjoys having sex with both sexes. Is there anything in her background to suggest that Kristen is the type of person that can? I hope she survives and is, it would be interesting to see if Gathan and Kristen could manage a polygamous relationship with another man or couple?

 

I think Will continues to come off as a very mature young man. He has begun to realize that he doesn't have all the answers but seems to be willing to continue to search for them no matter any personal hurt. You can't really grow as a person without suffering some pain along the way.

[B1ue]

But the ability to stick both fingers in your ears and go "Lalalala" to something that upsets you is a less specialized skill, and one women of her class are known for. True, she's not doing that at the moment, but if she decides to forgive him for making out with someone else, that would be one way to deal with the knowledge.

[Matthew k]

Hmmm....... Well, I believe there was only one US citizen on that doomed flight, what are the odds that it was our Kristen??? Can you imagine what it would do to Gathan to watch the plane crash and know his behaviour and secrets lead to Kristen's death? Can we say therapy for the rest of his life??? Even if she stays and survives will she and Gathan survive? It takes a special kind of person to be able to accept that their partner enjoys having sex with both sexes. Is there anything in her background to suggest that Kristen is the type of person that can? I hope she survives and is, it would be interesting to see if Gathan and Kristen could manage a polygamous relationship with another man or couple?

 

I think Will continues to come off as a very mature young man. He has begun to realize that he doesn't have all the answers but seems to be willing to continue to search for them no matter any personal hurt. You can't really grow as a person without suffering some pain along the way.

 

Mark is taking poetic license with this incident. It was a charter, not a scheduled flight. Kristen could not have gotten on the flight if she wanted because it was not a public flight. The Air France ground crew could not have booked her on board if they wanted.

 

I was going to crack a joke about "turbo boost" on the picture until it struck me that it was a picture of a bunch of people about to die and then the joke didn't seem so funny.

 

[methodwriter85]

t takes a special kind of person to be able to accept that their partner enjoys having sex with both sexes. Is there anything in her background to suggest that Kristen is the type of person that can? I hope she survives and is, it would be interesting to see if Gathan and Kristen could manage a polygamous relationship with another man or couple?

 

See, that's what interesting here. There are beard marriages, like the one JP had with Isidore. Then there are marriages with a bisexual man where he needs to have a relationship with a man while being with a woman, like what I'm assuming is going to happen with Andy, Angie, and Matt in Cross-Currents. Andy Sharpe seems configured that he can't choose one side- to be fulfilled, he needs to have an intimate relationship with a man and a woman. Part of his attraction to Matt is precisely because Matt is a guy, and part of his attraction to Angie is because she's a woman.

 

I don't really think that's the case with Gathan. Gathan seems more along the lines of what you'd call pansexual- gender doesn't really factor into what he's attracted to. He likes the person if he likes the person, gender be damned. I think if Gathan got married to a man, he wouldn't need to be with a woman. I think if Gathan got married to a woman, he wouldn't need to have sexual relations with a man. He might screw up from time to time, but I don't see Gathan as the kind of bisexual that must have relationships with both sexes to be happy. I think he would be happy with whatever and whoever he ended up with, and not need an extra relationship on top of his marriage.

[centexhairysub]

See, that's what interesting here. There are beard marriages, like the one JP had with Isidore.

 

I don't really think that's the case with Gathan. Gathan seems more along the lines of what you'd call pansexual- gender doesn't really factor into what he's attracted to. He likes the person if he likes the person, gender be damned. I think if Gathan got married to a man, he wouldn't need to be with a woman. I think if Gathan got married to a woman, he wouldn't need to have sexual relations with a man. He might screw up from time to time, but I don't see Gathan as the kind of bisexual that must have relationships with both sexes to be happy. I think he would be happy with whatever and whoever he ended up with, and not need an extra relationship on top of his marriage.

 

 

I don't know that I ever really considered JP and Isidore's marriage to be a beard situation... All of JP's family really knew he was gay before the marriage, I am sure it did help him in academia but I don't think that was the reason for the marriage. JP married Isidore to keep her and Ace in the country and to make sure they were protected and provided for. I guess in a way it sort of turned into that type of situation to an extent but I don't believe that was ever one of the reasons they got married or stayed married.

 

I really like how you stated the issue with Gathan. I think you hit that one right on the head. I think pansexual really works as a descriptor. I agree that I think Gathan can fall in love with and be happy with either sex. I think he enjoys both and looks at the person not their sex when determining who he loves and cares about...

[Northern Dutch Guy]

Hi Mark

 

if Will's caracter is like that of your own son it might work. But keep an open mind, so you do not become preocupied in your thinking about your son and who he is.

"The dreams of the father are often projected on his children, and especially on his sons."

 

But anyhow my guess is you will do well with him.

 

 

 

 

 

When this story started, I got some negative opinions about Will because of his rebellion, and general brattiness. I think a big part of that was him demanding to be treated with more respect, and more like an adult. He's achieved that goal, and I think he's acting much more responsibly now. I have to remember to apply that theory when dealing with my own son.

 

[Mark Arbour]

Hi Mark

 

if Will's caracter is like that of your own son it might work. But keep an open mind, so you do not become preocupied in your thinking about your son and who he is.

"The dreams of the father are often projected on his children, and especially on his sons."

 

But anyhow my guess is you will do well with him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We will see. In any event, it helps to have a handy model for an obnoxious teenager.

[rjo]

I hope your son is not reading this.

[Mark Arbour]

I hope your son is not reading this.

 

Me too.

[methodwriter85]

Just remember your little bit before about how, when cradling your newborn son in your arms, you knew that you'd gladly step in front of a speeding bullet to save him. Keep that in mind whenever you wish you could throttle him. I think when he goes off to college, you stop being the enemy that keeps him from his freedom and you guys can be buddies again.

 

You using your son as a model would explain why Will often feels more like a 16-year old instead of how most people act at 13. He certaintly didn't get the maturity from Brad. LOL.

 

As for the story itself, the implosion of John and Will's relationship felt pretty believeable, especially when you factor in that these are two 13-year old boys prone to hormonal mood swings and the like. Will wanted something serious because I think that's how he's wired; John wanted something fun because he's not exactly ready to pop the question in 8th grade. The tension that this has caused has been pretty well-depicted. I totally can see an average 13-year old boy finding Will way too intense.

 

As for Gathan, I liked JP's talk with him about how he needs to be mindful of what he does considering his political aspirations. He's not really allowed to slut around the way Matt Carrswold can because how people percieve him will make or break his future political clout. And as politician after politician has proven, in the age of DNA samples and digital media files, you can't really hide what you get into anymore. I think Claremont will be a great place for him to build a powerbase- work as mayor while implementing Nick's revitalization program for Claremont, become a rep, and maybe a future senator by the 2020's. Ohio's not exactly California, but it's got the cache of being a swing state. Gathan's whole rags to riches story would be pretty appealing, and if he manages to revitalize Claremont it'd be a great "proving" feather on his cap to be utilized for when he goes beyond the mayor position.

 

I like the idea of Gathan and Kristen as a power couple showing the face of the "rebirth" of Claremont.

Edited June 30, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

Remind me what happened to Ace? And what was his given name?

[DragonFire]

Not sure what it is, but try as I might I just can’t get into this as much as I have with the other CAP stories. More to do with Gathlan I think, for whatever reason I have no empathy for the character at all. I was sorta hoping he was going to get on that Concorde flight! lol.

Mean I know, but he’s the first main character that Mark’s written that I wouldn’t mind being killed off. Maybe I should start a petition, but possibly 1 signature won’t be enough.

 

I love Will, he’s like a mini Brad, all hot tempered & pig headed, so the story keeps my interest. Looking forward to his progress in future chapters.

[Mark Arbour]

Remind me what happened to Ace? And what was his given name?

 

Ace: Andre Charles Clerrault. He was the son of JP's first boyfriend (Andre) who was killed in Vietnam. His mother is Isidore. We know he's a lawyer, is married to his high-school girlfriend, and has a daughter.

[PrivateTim]

Ace: Andre Charles Clerrault. He was the son of JP's first boyfriend (Andre) who was killed in Vietnam. His mother is Isidore. We know he's a lawyer, is married to his high-school girlfriend, and has a daughter.

 

Oy vey, so Ace is Brad's brother even though they don't have any common parents and his adoptive father married his adoptive mother who was the lover of JP's boyfriend?? You missed your calling in life.... they'd never take off All My Children if you were doing the writing.

[gjtravel2a]

This Chapter closes and opens several key plots. An excellent virtual plateau that allows people to catch their breathe, re-group (or is it re-grope), and get ready for the futher adventures. Nicely done!

 

I must admit, that as I began reading this chapter and Gathan headed to the bathroom, I was sure you would give us cliff-hanger and not let us know the truth until the next chapter! Thanks for letting us off with a single instead of a double!! Now, who is left for 'poor old Will'?!?

[centexhairysub]

Well, I am glad no one died in this chapter... LOL... I really liked how Gathan and Kristen were able to talk about their issues without it overwhelming either of them. I also admire the fact that Kristen understood that it wasn't Will but Gathan that needed to explain himself to her.

 

I do think that JP is showing Gathan that if he wants to move forward in public life that a certain level of expectations must be met. I can see Gathan using this as a good learning experience. I wonder how often Kristen will be there visiting??? I sort of wonder about JP dealing with the Hendrickson's at some point but we will see how Mark has it play out...

 

Now onto Rome, I wonder what adventure awaits us there??? Maybe a new love for Will?????

[rjo]

After following this story for all this time, I have been able to see the method in Mark's tale. We see two young men growing up, looking for love and trying to understand who they are. Two parallel stories about two people who should not have met. Maybe only in the wonderful world of CAP could a rich kid from California and a poor one from Ohio met and help each other grow up. In the very first chapters we saw a really missed up Gathan. None of us would say he is perfect but he has come a long way. Will has also grown. Very few kids of his age I know have gone through so much but still seem undamaged. Mark once said JP over time changed . Brad transformed from the shy scared kid into what he is today. Some would say Brad becomes that kid every once and awhile. I see great things for these two. Gathan with Kristin and help from his new family. Will who I believe is so much stronger than his father, has a great future before him. I always wonder how Mark is able to come up with such a great story.

[methodwriter85]

Not sure what it is, but try as I might I just can’t get into this as much as I have with the other CAP stories. More to do with Gathlan I think, for whatever reason I have no empathy for the character at all. I was sorta hoping he was going to get on that Concorde flight! lol.

I like Gathan a lot, but I can see where you're coming from. Switching back and forth has its benefits, but sometimes I feel like we're getting shortchanged on the Gathan character and Will's taken over the story entirely. Being that we've been following Will since he was literally a newborn, it's easier to emphasize with him than it is with Gathan, who's not really getting as much development as a character that he was getting when the story started out as just him.

 

And, I don't know- I kinda feel like the story started out being about something definite- a poor kid overcoming his issues and adjusting to an entirely different world, and with the addition of Will's viewpoint it's turned into something else that's a bit more vague and meandering, to the point where I'm starting to think it should be called Rich Man's Son instead.

 

I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, it's interesting to contrast. On the other hand, we're not really getting to know Gathan as much as we could be getting to know him because he's been forced into the B-plot by Will. Who was pretty much destined to get a main story about his senior year in 2004 anyway. Will's a fun character, but the switch-up from being a story about Gathan to being a story with the two kinda sharing the spotlight...I can see why this story might be harder to get into.

Edited July 1, 2011 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

I like Gathan a lot, but I can see where you're coming from. Switching back and forth has its benefits, but sometimes I feel like we're getting shortchanged on the Gathan character and Will's taken over the story entirely. Being that we've been following Will since he was literally a newborn, it's easier to emphasize with him than it is with Gathan, who's not really getting as much development as a character that he was getting when the story started out as just him.

 

And, I don't know- I kinda feel like the story started out being about something definite- a poor kid overcoming his issues and adjusting to an entirely different world, and with the addition of Will's viewpoint it's turned into something else that's a bit more vague and meandering, to the point where I'm starting to think it should be called Rich Man's Son instead.

 

I don't know how I feel about this. On one hand, it's interesting to contrast. On the other hand, we're not really getting to know Gathan as much as we could be getting to know him because he's been forced into the B-plot by Will. Who was pretty much destined to get a main story about his senior year in 2004 anyway. Will's a fun character, but the switch-up from being a story about Gathan to being a story with the two kinda sharing the spotlight...I can see why this story might be harder to get into.

 

I agree with all of your points to a certain degree. I started out not really caring for Gathan. I really felt after the first few chapters that Gathan was nothing short of an out of control rapist, although that has been cleared up and dealt with. Gathan is in some ways unlike any other person we have seen in the CAP series. As with all the Hayes men, he has a certain charm that gets them much further than you would anticipate but he also has something else that we are just starting to glimpse as well.

 

I think another issue is that Gathan is so obviously in love with Kristen. Now, I am not saying this is going to preclude his involvement with another man, just look at that kiss in the last chapter but it does tend to take the edge off of that side of his persona. Unlike JP who both married and slept with Isidore; no one is yet sure where Gathan is going with all of this. We all knew that JP was gay but able to sleep with Isidore and enjoy it but his primary sexual desire would not be changing; no one can say that about Gathan. I like methodwriters post a few days or maybe a week ago that referred to Gathan as a pansexual, this term really works for him. I am just not sure that everyone is going to be happy with that revelation.

 

I have got in trouble in the past saying this but I do believe that there is some heterophobia involed with some of the readers of this series. While we can love Isidore, Claire, Jeanine, and especially Tonto; if they don't have a penis we only want small doses of them at a time. I actually like how Mark A. has written Gathan and feel it will grow into a very complex and interesting development; that being said I think there are those that will only be happy if he is primarily with a man...

 

This is one of the reasons that I believe a lot of the readers have been gravitating more to the Will side of the story. Will is a young man that is sure of and proud of his homosexuality and embraces it. This coupled with the fact that he has been developed over several stories makes it easier to feel the pull from him rather than Gathan.

 

Well, Mark, can't wait for the Rome adventure....

[rjo]

If we were voting I would vote for Gathan and Kristin to remain together and Gathan have the occasional affair with a guy. I found Kristin a remarkable woman. How she treated Will after returning from the airport was wonderful. If Gathan lets her go he's nuts. As for Will, maybe this trip to Rome will bring him love too. Is he like his father fluent in Italian?

 

I can't speak for the others but I find Will compelling not as much that he is gay, but more for him being Will. A person of his word. Someone who stands up for what he believes. In a world of people who change their mind every 15 minutes, Will stands his ground. Most adults don't do that. Here is a 13 almost 14 yo who does.

[methodwriter85]

That would work, but I'm not sure Gathan and Kristen would need or want that kind of arrangement. Gathan doesn't seem to desire men so much as he desires sex with people he likes. He really just does not see gender when it comes to attraction. I think if/when he gets married to Kristen, Gathan wouldn't have a need to have sex with a man because sex was never about being with a man, or being with a woman. It was always about enjoying himself with whoever he was with, regardless of gender. That's not to say we can't enjoy watching Gathan have fun and experiment with both genders during his college years. The other issue would be Gathan's political aspirations. They're entering an era where modern technology will make it almost impossible to hide an affair. Gathan and Kristen may want to work out some kind of open marriage, but Gathan will always have to think about how people percieve his personal life, and going out and saying, "I worked out an open marriage with my wife so I could have sex with men" seems like political suicide. Just tweeting suggestive pictures of yourself to people you aren't married to seems to be enough to torpedo a political career these days. I think Gathan would be pragmatic enough to realize that having occasional affairs on the side with men could come back to bite him on the ass, and I don't see him taking that risk.

 

I vote for keeping them together with an open arrangement during college but marriage afterwards. We already have Matt and Will as the two guys in this generation who are going to settle down with men and do the whole civil union thing with adopted babies, so why not have Gathan end up with an opposite-sexed life partner?

Edited July 2, 2011 by methodwriter85

[mmike1969]

heres the thing: Kristen fell in love with the Gathan without all that disposable $$$.

 

Money does NOT seem to be a priority to her. Does Gathan change too much?

[Hermetically Sealed]

It's not Heterophobia to be disinterested in stories focusing on straight relationships, nor is it homophobic for straight people to not have an interest in gay love stories. That is sort of why some are gay and some are straight, because we don't have the same interests. This is no different than someone liking Sci-fi and not reading a historically romance. They aren't being phobic, it's just not something that piques their interest.

I personally have no interest in more straight love stories, that's just about all there is in literature and movies, and television, or music. The whole reason for reading stories here (for me) is because they have been well crafted and engaging gay stories (something that I have found to be a rare commodity). If there is no gay element, there just isn't much reason to be interested.

 

That said, I like Gathan, and agree that Will has pretty much usurped the story. Do I care about the focus on Gathan and Kristine? Not really, in fact I tend to gloss over those scenes as I feel no connection with them. Even still, I am more interested in his story. I don't mind seeing things from Will's point of view on occasion and had this started off as his story I would love to continue, but it just seems that he's taken over and Gathan has been relegated to the back of the bus, storywise.

[methodwriter85]

See, I would hate for Mark to feel like he needs to break up Gathan and Kristin and put him in a gay relationship to make him more interesting. I think Gathan's story is certaintly more compelling- a screwed-up guy from a dysfunctional backgound getting put into a new world. But those issues seem to have been brushed aside in favor of giving Will more issues to work through, and for Gathan to have a fun romance with Kristin.

 

Maybe I'm just being picky, but I think it's a problem when the title character of your story seems to be playing second fiddle, storyline-wise. I'm hoping when the school year starts Will is going to take more of a backseat. He's got less of an adjustment to make in terms of going to high school, since he'll be more or less surrounded by people he knew and grew up with, whereas Gathan is going to be in an environment that is completely foreign to the one he grew up with. That should cause some interesting tension. When Matt Carrswold went off to Stanford, it wasn't really like he was some blue-collar kid suddenly rubbing elbows with the elite. Gathan's freshman year of college should be a lot different.

 

I like that Gathan is really unlike any protagonist we've ever had in CAP, and I just hope he gets to really shine in this story.

Edited July 3, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Hermetically Sealed]

See, I would hate for Mark to feel like he needs to break up Gathan and Kristin and put him in a gay relationship to make him more interesting.

Not what I was suggesting at all.

 

In fact, I am in agreement with you that I like Gathan, and find him an interesting character that I want to see more of, as this is his story (well, started off as). I even stated as much in the post. I agree with you.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Hermetically Sealed