Poor Man's Son

[rjo]

Happy Bastille Day!! Is it Happy Birthday for Stef? Is he 66 this year?

[methodwriter85]

No. He's forever 35. LOL.

[centexhairysub]

In response to all the recent post - YOU CANNOT REWRITE HISTORY... IT JUST NEVER WORKS...

 

I too mourn Jeff, his death still haunts me and I start crying several chapters before it happens when I go back to re-read this series. Having said that, I would change nothing about this series, Mark has done a wonderful job creating a truly interesting group of people that affect so many of us in different ways. Be happy that he allows us a glimpse into this place and stop the backseat writing, so to speak...

[Mark Arbour]

In response to all the recent post - YOU CANNOT REWRITE HISTORY... IT JUST NEVER WORKS...

 

I too mourn Jeff, his death still haunts me and I start crying several chapters before it happens when I go back to re-read this series. Having said that, I would change nothing about this series, Mark has done a wonderful job creating a truly interesting group of people that affect so many of us in different ways. Be happy that he allows us a glimpse into this place and stop the backseat writing, so to speak...

 

I agree with you, that to regenerate dead people is beyond the pale, but I do find the discussion fascinating.

[rjo]

i am not sure if even I want Jeff back. What is interesting however is how in this case the death of one person can change a lots of lives, When we wonder if we are important to others we need to look at Jeff or Aaron and how their actions changed countless lives.

[sat8997]

Having said that, I would change nothing about this series, Mark has done a wonderful job creating a truly interesting group of people that affect so many of us in different ways. Be happy that he allows us a glimpse into this place and stop the backseat writing, so to speak...

 

Boat!

[methodwriter85]

In all honestly, the only change I'd make would be switching the narrator of A Summer Love to Lou instead of Marcel.

[rjo]

Question is why ASL failed to capture a following and Bloodlines did? Both Hayes boys both young, handsome, sexually active. Why did we love Matt but not Marcel? We like Wade and hockey players better than JP and Max? I love Wade the hockey players are hot!!! But Max is hot too!! JP may be older but even Matt thinks he still cute. So guys why?

[methodwriter85]

I think the problem with Marcel was that he was never fully candid as a narrator- something about him always seemed remote, like you could never really get to know him. I talked with an online buddy about it, and as he put, "I feel like I never got to know Marcel, even though he had his own story." The story also only had 14 chapters, which made it harder for Marcel to have character development.

 

Plus, to be honest, it was a little creepy for JP to have a summer love affair with the son of his dead lover, who was about the same age that Jeff was when he died. And the pairing with Max felt pretty forced. Max is a nice guy but he's got zero romantic chemistry with the other characters.

Edited July 16, 2011 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

Jeremy, no one could have said it better!! I salute you!!!

[Mark Arbour]

Here's a question for all of you:

 

Do you think that Will or Gathan would top an HIV positive guy if they were wearing a condom?

 

I don't have a storyline planned along those lines, but a few things did pop into my mind for the future, so I"m looking for some input from you all.

[methodwriter85]

It's not out of the realm of possibility. This generation of guys lack the hysteria that people had about AIDS, because it was no longer a death sentence. At least, not in developed countries that had access to antiviral drugs. There's going to be a blase attitude about AIDS developing, especially with people Will's age.

[Mari]

I can't see Gathan doing it but Will would. He seems more impulsive? That doesn't seem quite right, but I can see him doing it. He's been educated enough about condoms and safe sex to be able to have sex with an HIV pos. person that he cares about. Not a one night stand but a relationship.

[Westie]

No. Absolutely not. Jeremy keeps talking about what this "generation" would do, but these are not the ordinary Joe's of their generation. These are not the "normal". They act outside of the paradigms. Talking about Will and Gathan in terms of a whole generation is absurd (for different reasons for each guy).

 

(1) Will. He has grown up among gay men such as JP, Stef and to some extent Greg. They talk often about the friends they lost to that plague. They see every day the devestation of loss on those people - like stef and JP - who were left behind. There is no way in hell that Will would take the risk (no matter how minimal that risk being the top using a condom). Will would not dream of paying such disrespect - and laying such HURT - at the feet of people he loves dearly, and more importantly respects.

 

(2) Gathan. He knows what its like to feel an outsider. To never quite fit in. He has drive and ambition. In some ways, he is calculation, in others he is impulsive. He spends an awful lot of time thinking about the views, thoughts and feelings of other poeple. He wouldnt like to be a burden. Likewise, he would see a dependance on pills and medications a restriction of his freedom. Gathan wouldnt take the risk, either for HIMSELF, or for others around him.

 

We need to stop thinking and talking in terms of "this generation would do this" - because its the most appalling BS. (no offence to anyone intended)

 

West

 

PS -if you asked me the same question about Matt Carswold, i would say "yes" - simply because Matt is more headstrong. He is more in control, but at the same time, is a risk taker. The "russian roulette" aspect for Matt, might even make it hotter.

 

 

[methodwriter85]

Yes and no. I realize that these kids won't always fall in line with their peers, but at the same time, part of what Mark is trying to do is reflect the mindset and attitudes of each generation he's portraying. For example, when Mark was doing Be Rad, he had to portray a time when getting Herpes was the worst thing that could ever happen in terms of an STD, and found it hard to get back into that mindset. But he had Brad thinking that, because it was the prevailing mindset in 1980 when "H" was the worst thing you could get because it was the first STD that you couldn't cure. That was a part of how Mark recreated the culture of 1980 America. You can act outside typical generational norms, but at the end of the day, we are shaped by the age in which we grew up in. If everyone is avant-garde and completely outside their era in terms of thought, we lose the historical integrity of the time that's being spotlighted because it's not being true to the then-contemporary mindset.

 

I do agree with you about Will and Gathan not doing it, though. Matt would, though. JJ- I think when he's sexually active he wouldn't really ask too many questions, but I'm not sure he'd knowingly have sex with an HIV guy.

 

Mark could explore the subset of gay men who are actively seeking the HIV virus, which is known as bug chasing. I'm not sure they're old enough to be around guys like that yet, though.Wouldn't it be mostly tweakers and the like?

Edited July 17, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mari]

Can Will take Berto home with him until summers end? That would be the best souvenir ever! His relatives would be so jealous.

Edited July 17, 2011 by Mari

[Mark Arbour]

Thanks for your feedback. West, you did a really nice job of summing up how the characters would probably feel about it. I think the big variable, though, is how Gathan or Will would feel about the HIV positive bottom they were considering f**king. If it was a guy they really cared about, I think that might just tilt the balance, but I'm not sure.

[Canuk]

westie, may I disagree wholeheartedly about your assessment of Will.?

 

If Will did or did not decide to sleep with someone HIV+ it would have nothing to do with any perceived "disrespect" for JP, Steph or anyone else. It would be purely about his own feelings and that of his prospective partner. Will is very level headed, (OK his reaction to events in Paris may be delayed, but so far we have seen no out-of-the-ballpark reaction either way). He knows what he likes and he has obviously had drummed into him the "message" re sex. I know you don't like the "generation" thing, but I must admit that Will as written shows all the admirable qualities of the generation that grew up with a much clearer and more rational view of the epidemic that did so much physical and emotional damage to previous generations.

 

So in answer to Mark's question I think Will would take his prospective sexual partner's status into account in determining what if anything he did, but it would not be the overiding consideration, and it would have nothing to do with the undoubted respect he feels for his family.

Edited July 18, 2011 by Canuk

[Mark Arbour]

And some more good points.

[PrivateTim]

Of the two I would find Gathan the more likely one to falter, but in the year 2000 they are still in an era where gay men are dying from AIDS. It is hard to remember how quickly the drugs that have made HIV and AIDS managable have come. My point being, it is sometimes hard to move your mindset back 11 years to remember exactly how prevelant talk was about AIDS back then. AIDS has quickly left the front page. It just isn't something you hear about these days.

 

Would Will in 2000 or 2001 or 2005, top an HIV+ guy? I am thinking not. Would he do it in 2008 and beyond when he is older? Maybe if it was someone he was deeply in love with.

 

It has only been in the last 5-7 years that I have seen a total disregard for the dangers of being HIV+ among young gay men and they are usually under 21. It doesn't seem real to them. It will always be real to Will. Will at 20 in 2007 will not be like other 20 year olds.

[centexhairysub]

Okay, first of all, I really enjoyed the latest chapter of PMS. I really loved that Will got to go surfing in Italy and prove that he is just Bad Ass... I really think that Zach is going to cause problems for not just Gathan but others as well. He just really seems to have no respect for himself much less anyone else. A tragic accident in his future, hmmm maybe???

 

Okay now on to the current discussion on if Will or Gathan would sleep with an HIV + person using protection, and I say yes to both of them. Now, I know that no sex is truly safe unless you are not having it but as long as you are taking the proper precautions you are much more likely to get bitten by a shark then contract HIV; and I know that someone is going to bitch about that statement but.... If you are using protection with the added protection of being on top; the risk is amazingly low. I don't think that Will or Gathan would be scared off from sleeping with someone that they cared about just because the person is HIV positive.

 

I think that Will especially because he has been raised in an atmosphere of education and honesty would understand the risk but also would understand the human element involved. I can't see Will being either shallow or rude enough to reject someone because of their HIV status. I actually think that Gathan would have more of an issue simply because he hasn't been raised in as educated and open enviroment, but do believe he would understand that with protection the risk is unbelievably small.

[Daddydavek]

I think both Will and Gathan would top someone who is HIV positive if they cared for the person and took precautions. Even in 2000, having a postive HIV status was no longer a death sentence. Also, being young, and invincible and fairly intelligent, but terminally horney, they would know the risks and ways to minimize the chance of acquiring an infection. In the current story, does Will really know for sure that Berto is not HIV positive? Even if someone has been recently tested, no one is absolutely sure unless they have been celibate and had what, 2-3 of months of testing which is negative. Ever since the AIDS era started, sex has been a crapshoot and most gay guys either calculate the odds, remain monogamous, or make the best decisions they can on the information available.

 

 

[GLH]

I don't know if the guidelines have changed in the last year or so, but if we were exposed at work we were tested immediately and barring a positive first test, started on the cocktail for 12 months. Followup testing occurred at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months. One was not considered clear of the possibility of seroconversion until the 12 month test came back negative.

Edited July 19, 2011 by GLH

[methodwriter85]

There was an interesting bit of character development that hasn't been touched on- Will saying that he thought about competitive surfing, but decided against it because it would take the fun out of being a sufer. So it looks like Will is not going to join a competitive sport in high school, which goes so far with how he's been characterized as generally laidback and not a particularly agressive person. Most of the jocks I knew in high school had agressive tendencies that they were channeling into their sports, and Will doesn't seem to have that trait. Maybe Will's extracurricular can be Environmental Club? That could be fun for him. I could see him being articulate enough to do Newspaper, but I'm thinking Environmental isses could be interesting. I can't see Will in Mock Trial. Definitely not Yearbook or Drama. He's already got his community service covered, but now he needs an extracurricular.

Edited July 21, 2011 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

This last chapter has brought some very interesting things to light. Has Kristin's father really molested her? If so Gathan and her are in the same boat. Kristin has became a very powerful women. Maybe much more than Gathan was expecting and can handle. God help anyone who messes with her man. I have a feeling something else is hiding in the background, I think Gathan and Kristin need to get out of Clairmont soon and get to the safety of California before civil war begins.

 

On the other side I don't understand this situation with Will's clubwear. Why did JP take the picture of Will? It seems out of character for him. What is going on? What would Brad think about it?

 

I don't know about the rest of you but my interest in the story has changed. Before I was really into Will's side of the story. Gathan's story has regain my major interest. Will has moved to the background. I am not sure why but it is true.