Poor Man's Son

[Hermetically Sealed]

I think people expect too much, to be honest. I grew up poor, started working when I was 10 doing odd jobs around the neighborhood. If I wanted something, I had to scrounge and save. I have always been considered a level headed individual who planned well when it came to finances. I remember the first time I went into Casino; it didn't end very well for me, despite all my knowledge and care when it comes to my money.

 

It starts off you feel very in control. "I'm not going to spend a whole lot, and besides, I have plenty to make it through the month." "That dinner was a bit expensive, but one time isn't going to break the bank." "I won't spend more than $100. I'll be fine. Might just not be able to go out that much." The excuses are always rational at the time, simply because you aren't detached enough to see what is going on. It's all well and good to cast judgment from afar, but I've been there. It's not so neat and clean as some would suggest.

 

You guys have never spent time around the nouveau riche?

I work with both old and new money. They are both stupid, just in different ways. Both tend to spend beyond they're means, just for different reasons. Old money spends because they always have, and not having the funds doesn't compute until they encounter the situation. (Look up Doug Pielsticker sometime, I actually did work on one of his "secret" homes). Often, they aren't even in charge of their own finances, instead going through a person who cuts the checks for them. They may not even realize they don't have money. The nouveau riche on the other hand, don't always understand how to manage large sums. Even those who have detailed plans often find they make mistakes. They assume they have more than they actually do, or fail to consider just how fast they are actually going through the funds because they aren't used to dealing with it. Sometimes it's just that they believe the money will last just because there's more of it.

 

Either way, the end result is often the same for me, getting them to pay bills is like pulling teeth. >.>

[methodwriter85]

Either way, the end result is often the same for me, getting them to pay bills is like pulling teeth.

I mean, the whole "bottomless pit of cash" deal has been fun to read about, but I like that we're finally seeing some limitations here- like the Hendricksons and what's happening with Gathan. It'd be great to see how the gang would deal with financial troubles when the Great Recession hits. It would definitely shake things up rather than these characters always being able to do whatever they want money-wise because it seems like a bottomless pit of cash. My money would be on Ace getting screwed. And Stefan pulling out of real estate in late 2005, when the housing market is peaking. Because the CAP rule is that Stefan must always make savvy financial decisions. Robbie is invested in Harry Potter so he'll be good for the next decade, and I'm sure Brad will invest in Haliburton to the pissed-off reaction of J.P.

 

If they ever wanted to bring back Drew, they could always bring him back in 2009 as a 25-year old dealing with his family in Orange County having been hit incredibly hard by the recession. I have Drew's family pictured as being likely the type of people hit hard by the real estate crash- formerly upper-middle class who moved up to upper-class and lived in a Coto de Caza McMansion, lives heavily on credit, and then gets hit hard when real estate hits bottom.

 

Finally, I appreciate that JJ's main function right now is to occasionally show up and make bitchy comments to Gathan. Because again, having yet another teenager whine about dating would be just a bit much. LOL. Especially since we're talking someone who doesn't have the time to date. In any event, I'm happy that JJ doesn't sit around in his room moping about so-and-so not calling him back, thank god. JJ stands in his room working on his stance for hours like a good career-focused boy should. His function right now works well.

 

Until, of course, it's time for JJ to get run over by a bus and have everyone shrug their shoulders and go off to IHop for blueberry pancakes.

Edited August 20, 2011 by methodwriter85

[B1ue]

It starts off you feel very in control. "I'm not going to spend a whole lot, and besides, I have plenty to make it through the month." "That dinner was a bit expensive, but one time isn't going to break the bank." "I won't spend more than $100. I'll be fine. Might just not be able to go out that much." The excuses are always rational at the time, simply because you aren't detached enough to see what is going on. It's all well and good to cast judgment from afar, but I've been there. It's not so neat and clean as some would suggest.

 

And if this spending binge had been more spread out, say over the course of his freshman year (which it almost certainly would), I could see this as more forgivable. No less stupid, but understandable. Because you're right, I've seen people spend a little here and a little there and suddenly be broke. But blowing thorugh all that, all at once?

 

I don't know if this is a symptom of a deeper problem or just immaturity. I hope the latter; people can grow out of that.

 

Also, Method, this is the third or fourth time this week you've mentioned JJ is level-headed and not going bonkers over someone. Is there something you want to share with the class?

[methodwriter85]

Also, Method, this is the third or fourth time this week you've mentioned JJ is level-headed and not going bonkers over someone. Is there something you want to share with the class?

 

I can get really, really insistent about stuff, especially when it comes to JJ, and I keep repeating the same thing over and over and over. Some might call me muleheaded. Sometimes I'm not even sure why I get into this mode, but when I do it usually requires a virtual bitchslap from someone to get me to stop. So thanks, Blue. LOL.

 

It's realistic that the teenagers mope around about their love interests, but god it's annoying. I'm just hopeful that JJ will stay annoying for other reasons that are very him rather than the whole "Teenager Gets Bit By the Love Bug and goes insane" deal. I don't blame Mark for writing the main teenage protagonists this way, because it IS realistic and all. I just kinda wish more teenagers would be able to think, "Hey, in the long run, this current crush I have isn't going to mean much in the future, and there are things like education and my career that I need to think of first. I don't need to be settled into a serious relationship at 14 years old." It personally bothers me when I see kids that age losing their head over some meaningless crush, and it'd be great to see a teenager who can like someone but not lose their shit over them. JJ's my big hope on that because his career makes it so that he doesn't have time to date, anyway. Darius and Will have already lost it over their love interests, so it's up to JJ here. LOL.

 

Of course, this is the hazard we're running into because we're following more of these guys' adolescence by nature of the smaller time jumps. As Mark put it, he could have made them nice and likeable, or he could have made them teenagers. LOL.

Edited August 20, 2011 by methodwriter85

[PrivateTim]

I mean, the whole "bottomless pit of cash" deal has been fun to read about, but I like that we're finally seeing some limitations here- like the Hendricksons and what's happening with Gathan. It'd be great to see how the gang would deal with financial troubles when the Great Recession hits. It would definitely shake things up rather than these characters always being able to do whatever they want money-wise because it seems like a bottomless pit of cash. My money would be on Ace getting screwed. And Stefan pulling out of real estate in late 2005, when the housing market is peaking. Because the CAP rule is that Stefan must always make savvy financial decisions. Robbie is invested in Harry Potter so he'll be good for the next decade, and I'm sure Brad will invest in Haliburton to the pissed-off reaction of J.P.

 

The kind of money Stef and Brad & Robbie have at this point nothing in the 2000 recession or the 2007 recession is going to affect them. In fact jumping in the market after the 9-11 thumping (which is what a lot of smart money managers did) and jumping out in 2007 they would damn near double their money. And cash became king in 2007, Stef could have picked up a lot of real estate on the cheap.

 

There would be no reason for Stef to pull out of real estate in 2005 since so many of his holdings in real estate were bought in the early 70's and 80's, even at the 2007 "crashing" real estate he would still be way up and he knows the way to wealth is to hold on to real estate and lease it out.

 

I can get really, really insistent about stuff, especially when it comes to JJ, and I keep repeating the same thing over and over and over. Some might call me muleheaded. Sometimes I'm not even sure why I get into this mode, but when I do it usually requires a virtual bitchslap from someone to get me to stop. So thanks, Blue. LOL.

 

Who would call you mule-headed??

[Hermetically Sealed]

nd if this spending binge had been more spread out, say over the course of his freshman year (which it almost certainly would), I could see this as more forgivable. No less stupid, but understandable. Because you're right, I've seen people spend a little here and a little there and suddenly be broke. But blowing thorugh all that, all at once?

Sorry, but my experience is the opposite of that, with the shorter the time the more likely one is to actual get trapped in that cycle. Often, more time one has to actually think things through, the less likely these impulses are to take hold. As it is, we aren't discussing a rational behavior, nor is it all that rare of one.

[B1ue]

Oh, no. I didn't mean his behavior was unrealistic. Just contemptible. If his spending was spread out, I could at least understand how it happened. But all it once, I am more likely to just dismiss him as someone too irresponsible to take care of a cat.

 

Edit: And say what you will about how it's easy for me to judge him harshly for his actions. Look again at his actions and tell me it isn't worth being judged harshly. This behavior, if left unchecked, could prove disastrous for him. And unless someone gets him to think about what he's doing, he may very well resist any kind of checks others might provide.

 

It's all very typical, yes. But as I said, I expected better. I would expect better of anyone.

 

Edit 2: Also, I'd have less of an issue with this if the money he's currently blowing through wasn't given to him in order to educate and start him out in life. Brad blew quite a lot of cash during Millenium, and it didn't bother me. But he'd earned that money, made it with his own effort, albeit with a pretty damn good head start. Gathan got handed an opportunity that many would, and have, killed for, and he's spending it on a fricking pen. So, yeah, I dislike this development of his character.

[Hermetically Sealed]

And yet, this mistake is one shared by a huge number of people. It doesn't mean he won't learn from it, or is too incompetent to take care of a cat. Really, just seems to be a huge overstatement of what is happening. Is what he is doing stupid? Certainly, but deserving this level of contempt? Hardly.

 

The true measure of his worth will come about how he deals with the outcome. Does he realize that he is being careless and adjust accordingly, or does he ignore the problem and barrel on through and continuously repeat the mistake.

 

ETA:

 

Look again at his actions and tell me it isn't worth being judged harshly.

In the real world, Vegas is filled with people who have fallen into the same trap he is starting to enter, and by all rights they typically have more experience and should know better. Doesn't seem to stop it from happeneing to them. Why would I condemn a person for something that better, more experienced people failed to see themselves? I can guarentee most of them aren't teenagers, either. Yes, it is stupid no matter what, but lets be a bit rational.

 

Edit 2: Also, I'd have less of an issue with this if the money he's currently blowing through wasn't given to him in order to educate and start him out in life. Brad blew quite a lot of cash during Millenium, and it didn't bother me. But he'd earned that money, made it with his own effort, albeit with a pretty damn good head start. Gathan got handed an opportunity that many would, and have, killed for, and he's spending it on a fricking pen. So, yeah, I dislike this development of his character.

Brad was raised around that kind of lifestyle, and was in his upper 30's in Mil. Gathan has never encountered that situation in his entire life, and is only 18. Their situations are nothing alike, and expecting similar reactions just makes no sense. Teenagers are gong to screw up, especially when out of their experience range, and overwhelmed.

Edited August 21, 2011 by Hermetically Sealed

[Hermetically Sealed]

I think we all agree that what they (yes, they) are being careless here. And certainly, if anything Darius and Kristin both should have piped up about the money expense of this trip. You can't claim that either of them is unaware of what this is likely to cost. Why haven't they with the most experience stepped in yet? Blame seems to be pretty evenly shared in this situation, but Gathan is the one everyone is the most disappointed with?

[methodwriter85]

Also, Method, this is the third or fourth time this week you've mentioned JJ is level-headed and not going bonkers over someone. Is there something you want to share with the class?

I thought about this, and I realized that the reason why I got particularly vehement about that this week was because I had to deal with a teenaged friend who quite literally spent hours sobbing her guts out over a guy who dumped her. It was me, her, and three of her other friends, and it was a rather intense experience. The staff at Waffle House were incredibly understanding, but yeah. I really do wish young people could see that they don't need someone to complete them; that having someone break up with you isn't the end of the world, and that there's so much more to life than dating someone.

 

Kinda funny how personal experience can make you have an almost visceral reaction to some fictional situation for reasons you can't quite grasp until you really think about why you're having it.

 

Who would call you mule-headed??

Pot, meet kettle.

 

I do think this plot is a good learning experience for Gathan- if he's going to be a mayor someday, especially if it's a mayor of a town in Ohio during the Great Recession, he needs to learn how to balance and stick to a budget.

[Daddydavek]

Gathan is 19? He grew up with almost next to nothing. He had $180,000 in his checking account. They are in Vegas for a few days and he blows what, 70-80 thousand impressing his friends and having a ball. I don't think its the end of the world or that he will suddenly forget how to stretch a dollar. While it may not have been the most mature behavior, it isn't deplorable. His trust will put more money into his account on a quarterly basis and he should do fine. He has a new truck, school is covered, and he still can nominally work for Brad & Stef as an administrative assistant. What is the point of having some money if you can't enjoy it a bit? He is not your average student on scholarship, trying to make $12,000 last a whole school year. He doesn't have the worry of student loans, and he can score grass at Escorial. He has J.P., Stef, Brad, Matt, Wade and a host of others to watch out for him and set him right if he veers off too far. In short, I am more worried that he will screw up things based on his non-gender specific capacity for attachments. In other words, I can see Kristin really busting his balls if he screws up.

[Mark Arbour]

Who would call you mule-headed??

 

Sharon.

[methodwriter85]

In short, I am more worried that he will screw up things based on his non-gender specific capacity for attachments. In other words, I can see Kristin really busting his balls if he screws up.

I do think Kristin and Gathan need to have an understanding, but I'm not sure they're mature enough to get past the whole "OMG WE'RE TOTALLY IN LOVE FOREVER AND EVER AND WE'RE TOTALLY COMMITTED!" ideal that most teenagers seem to have about relationships, and be realistic about what it means to be in a long-distance relationship. I'm sure Gathan will screw up and Kristin will go ballistic. Then Gathan will go find comfort in Sam's son Tony or something. That's how it goes in a soap. If people interacted in their relaitonships with total honestly and maturity and understanding, it'd be pretty boring to read. Soap characters need to be illogical, overdramatic, and jumping to the wrong conclusions about their relationships, or else it wouldn't be a soap.

[Daddydavek]

Of course it's a bit of a soap. And like most good ones, the writer keeps you guessing as to what will happen next. In this case we have only the broad outline of history as a backdrop for Mark's prosaic canvas!

[Matthew k]

I do think Kristin and Gathan need to have an understanding, but I'm not sure they're mature enough to get past the whole "OMG WE'RE TOTALLY IN LOVE FOREVER AND EVER AND WE'RE TOTALLY COMMITTED!" ideal that most teenagers seem to have about relationships, and be realistic about what it means to be in a long-distance relationship. I'm sure Gathan will screw up and Kristin will go ballistic. Then Gathan will go find comfort in Sam's son Tony or something. That's how it goes in a soap. If people interacted in their relaitonships with total honestly and maturity and understanding, it'd be pretty boring to read. Soap characters need to be illogical, overdramatic, and jumping to the wrong conclusions about their relationships, or else it wouldn't be a soap.

 

We need to be able to have Gathan screw guys at Leland Stanford Junior University (why would anyone go to a junior university instead of a real one?).

 

And Sam? Sam who died of AIDS? Wouldn't his son be late 20's in 2000? Where does he live?

 

I don't necessarily want Bloodlines II, but I did enjoy all the goings on at the college campus.

[methodwriter85]

We need to be able to have Gathan screw guys at Leland Stanford Junior University (why would anyone go to a junior university instead of a real one?).

See, I'm sure it will happen, but in some ways it will feel gratuitious. He's already in love. Gathan's never felt like a guy who's on the order of Andy in Cross-Currents; someone who needs to have sex with both men and women to feel complete. He really is one of those guys for whom gender doesn't factor into his attractions.

 

I don't mind Gathan screwing around with guys, so long as he and Kristin end up together in the end. LOL.

 

And Sam? Sam who died of AIDS? Wouldn't his son be late 20's in 2000? Where does he live?

 

We've already met Sam's son. His son is named Tony, he's 18, and he's a rich jock from the suburbs from St. Louis. He and Gathan had a little fun. Tony will be coming out to Stanford in the fall. Seriously, can we retire Stanford after this point? It's been so used. Mark, didn't you say once that you wanted to spread out the characters among colleges? You did just that for the Be Rad crew. Time for new colleges when it's time for the Class of '04 to graduate. Although that discussion is for another time since JJ, Will, and Marie are just freshman, while John is in 8th grade.

 

Mark and I did the research- in Man In Motion, Sam's son Anthony was mentioned as being about Darius's age:

 

June 12, 1985

We drove over to Sam's house in the Italian section of town, “The Hill.” JP had told me that Sam lived near his parents, and had a pretty wife, Maria, who was at least ten years younger than him, and two kids, Anthony and Julia. Anthony was about the same age as Darius, while Julia was younger.

I don't necessarily want Bloodlines II, but I did enjoy all the goings on at the college campus.

By nature of Gathan being truly bisexual and not emotionally gay the way Matt is, things have to be different. Gathan is also from an entirely different background than Matt is from. It can't be a repeat of Bloodlines II for those reasons. Trust me, Mark's writing team will get on him if we feel that he's repeating the same story. I was worried that Mark would turn this current generation into a sequel of Be Rad, but so far it's been entirely different, which I'm happy about.

[Canuk]

............................................. I was worried that Mark would turn this current generation into a sequel of Be Rad, but so far it's been entirely different, which I'm happy about.

 

 

There, J, you hit the nail on the head: your happiness. I am so sure this is, has been, and will be Mark's one aim in life!!

[methodwriter85]

It's not about my own happiness, though. I've been part of a television discussion forum since I was 13, and the continual theme I've picked up on is that people absolutely despise the practice of "recycling" old plotlines from television shows, which usually happens when a t.v. show has been on for a long time. Little House on the Prairie was unabashedly proud of ripping off their own older storylines and playing them out again with younger characters- they basically replayed the Laura Ingalls/Nellie Oleson rivalry with Jenny Wilder, played by Shannen Doherty doing her damnedest impression of Melissa Gilbert, and Nancy, an orphan who was dressed exactly like Alison Arngrim's character with everyone commenting on how much she was like Nellie. It was really obvious and desperate, reeking of lazy writing by people who didn't want to work on creating new characters with entirely different dynamics.

 

It would be boring and repetitive if this new generation that Mark has set up goes through all of the same stuff that Brad/Robbie/Ace/Claire went through during their youth, or what JP/Stefan/Jeff went through in theirs. I don't think any of us want to see Will staring in his own version of Be Rad, because that story was done right the first time around. I don't think anyone wants a repeat of Bloodlines, either, because it was done right the first time and there's no point in repeating the story. Mark's done a good job of NOT falling into that writer trap, and it seems like he's taking the JJ/Will/Darius/Gathan/Matt/Wade etc etc generation into places we haven't gone to before. I mean, there are callbacks, but he's done a great job of not trying to recreate his older work, which I think we can all appreciate. If we get to a point where there's nothing new to say, or a place to take these characters that we haven't done before, it's probably best to end the series.

Edited August 23, 2011 by methodwriter85

[Mark Arbour]

There, J, you hit the nail on the head: your happiness. I am so sure this is, has been, and will be Mark's one aim in life!!

 

I appreciate your points Jeremy, but this was still pretty funny.

[methodwriter85]

Well, if Will's middle-aged hookup is "Scott Slater", that's not so bad. Anything over Cody.

 

I did like Scott being brutally honest about Will's summer fling. If he wants to play with the big boys and have sex, fine, but don't whine every time it doesn't work out like a 12-year old girl despairing over her first crush not calling her back.

 

I liked that Gathan refused to take Will's money. It's probably for the best that he'll be on a strict budget for college; can't have too many distractions.

Edited August 25, 2011 by methodwriter85

[centexhairysub]

I swear if JP was any smarter; he would be God... He handled the situation with Gathan perfectly. Gathan knows that he screwed up so there is no need for this huge lecture; just deal with the issue and figure out how to teach Gathan a better way of handling his money.

 

I really liked how Scott explained the facts of life to Will, and how Will actually listened and seemed to understand. The scene with Will watching Scott was so hot and I can totally see in a couple of years a more intimate scene occuring.

 

I wonder if there isn't something else going on with JJ and his behaviour toward Gathan. Could Zach have done something to JJ while he was out in California and JJ is blaming Gathan? Even for a diva, JJ is overdoing his reaction to Gathan.

[methodwriter85]

I wonder if there isn't something else going on with JJ and his behaviour toward Gathan. Could Zach have done something to JJ while he was out in California and JJ is blaming Gathan? Even for a diva, JJ is overdoing his reaction to Gathan

You obviously have never been put in a situation where you had to grow up in a school teaming with teenaged divas. Trust me, JJ could be much, much worse. I'm thinking it is pretty much what Will said it is- JJ's bothered by Gathan getting attention, and they just clash with each other.

 

The Zach/JJ theory is interesting, but I can't really see where Zach would have gotten the time alone with JJ because JJ gets very little time to socialize, or that he would have even had the interest in JJ's pre-pubescent body. Shrimps don't get much interest from 10th grade guys- only the developed ones like Will and John get that. I remember pretty distinctly that, in 8th grade, the only girls who were dating high school guys were the girls who looked like women, not girls who still looked 11 or 12.

Edited August 25, 2011 by methodwriter85

[sat8997]

The scene with Will watching Scott was so hot and I can totally see in a couple of years a more intimate scene occuring.

 

<snaugh> Uh huh.

[methodwriter85]

I didn't find the scene hot, but if Will really has to get with a middle-aged guy, I guess Scott's an okay choice. I don't want it to be Max because that would require Max to have a falling out with Tim to happen, and I really don't like the way Cody seems to be working his way through the Crampton/Schluter/Hayes family.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2011 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

I am hoping that Will can find a nice gay boy at his new high school. The idea of a 38 yo seducing Will really creeps me out. I always liked Lark in his past life but trying to relive his wasted youth by get it on with Will is not right. I understand that Mouse and Marcel had relationships with JP. Both of them were in the 20's and had finished college not almost 14 and beginning high school. They were also the ones who wanted JP. Who wouldn't love JP. Stef certainly does. The thought of having sex with someone my father's age (Lark is Brad's age) makes my skin crawl. Sorry Mark. Maybe I am too protective of Will but it still seems wrong.

Edited August 26, 2011 by rjo