Paternity

[Gene Splicer PHD]

Yes, but if the child is caught breaking his grounding and they ship him off to military school, or take away his iPhone, car, and other privileges, etc the child has no recourse. Yes they can continue to defy and rebel, but they can not win long term as long as they are a minor.

 

Oh you don't have kids or spend much time with families with teenagers in crisis, do you ? There's a thing called choosing your battles with kids. You try to pick the battle that will have an effect, and you try to balance reaction to their actions, and vice versa. It's not as simple as calling the law or shipping them off to a school. It's a whole lot trickier than that, the risks are a lot higher.

 

I mean, if a baby is screaming and won't quiet down, do you yell back? That just makes it worse, and do you think this changes when they become teenagers? It doesn't! They just yell louder back at you or throw things and leave, or tell you to piss off and go do what they want anyway, or have big hissy fits.

 

What you are talking about here. Tim, is when it escalates and never gets better. My cousin's kid was 15 when they caught her with pot. My cousin asked my opinion (as the family druggie) what I would do in her situation. My answer was that she could go two ways.

 

She could lock the kid down, search her room and her person randomly, ban her from seeing her friends, take away her phone, take away her privileges, random drug tests, hair tests, the whole thing. Up to and including a short stay in a rehab if it came to that.

 

Or she could talk to the kid, find out what was up with the pot smoking, tell her in no uncertain terms that the pot had to go, come up with some ways to maybe push the kid to see some different friends, etc. - all of this with the never-voiced hope that the pot will be a temporary phase.

 

My cousin went the lock down route. For a year. When she got her freedom back, the kid stopped coming home, stopped calling to say where she was, basically she broke free. And hasn't, except for short visits home, been back since. She got her own phone from some friends, found some couches she could sleep on, got a small job to put money in her pocket. Emancipation, really, only without the law.

 

We all knew it would happen, we all saw the ugly, ugly looks the kid gave my cousin, the silence, all that anger. The whole experience so poisoned her about "home" that she didn't really think she had one anymore, so she bailed. And truthfully my cousin lost a whole lot more than a stupid battle about pot. She really lost the relationship. It's better but will never ever really be a good one again.

 

Legally, my cousin could have had the kid dragged home when she didn't come home, could have taken away the phone again, shipped her off to a school or camp, could have taken all kinds of legal measures to keep her minor child under control. And my cousin, knowing what would happen if she cracked down again, has backed off. Way off. She will lose her daughter, in one way or another, if she escalated it again, and so she has chosen (wisely, I think) to let the kid find her own way.

 

But there's no "winner" in this, Tim. You don't win when a kid sees no options and the parents can't see them either. The daughter didn't win, she had a harder adolescence because of her decisions and her mom's reactions. The mom (my cousin) didn't win, she basically lost all the trust her daughter had in her. Nowadays, my cousin sends a little money her way once in a while, keeps in regular touch, and hopes the girl doesn't end up on a stripper pole somewhere. Sometimes it's all that's left.

Sometimes, parents have to let the really independent ones go their way, and make their mistakes, and hope it all turns out okay in the end.

 

What Mark has created here is a situation that I think is waaay polarized, more for dramatic effect and storytelling than anything else. Brad is not interested in compromise. He's not interested in anything Will has to say, and is now very much on the defensive. And he's reacting, rather than thinking about options. And Will, in that fuzzy emotional/logical/stressed and dunderheaded way that teenagers have, is doing exactly the same thing. He doesn't care why his dad's being a dick, he just knows his dad's being a dick because he "doesn't care". He's overreacting to his dad's stupid decisions. The problem is that he has the resources to really escalate the situation to a point that will have no good outcome for anyone.

 

Mark has said that this "battle" between Brad and Will in some ways reflects his own relationship with his son, who (I think) is a little older than Will. And I think he's putting little pieces of the battles he's had with his son in the story, only highly dramatized.

What he's been really, really good at is overemphasizing that the kid's opinions matter- not because he's a special snowflake that has "needs" - but that you have to be nuanced in dealing with kids, because they will usually react, without any sense of balance, without thinking. If a parent just drops the hammer, the kid will hit you with it, really hard, because they have no sense of a proportional response. The baby yells, the parents yell back, the baby yells louder. It's a never ending cycle - so you learn to let the baby cry itself to sleep. You don't call the law on it.

 

Part of dealing with a kid is including them in the decisions that affect them, even if they don't have a choice in those decisions, because it lets the kid in on what you're thinking. And that can lead the child to a better response than you would get otherwise.

 

Brad is a business leader, and understands a proportional response, and absolutely refuses to include Will in his thinking process. That's a mistake, a big one. It means Will is reacting to his own situation without consideration of his dad's situation, so Will is operating in a vacuum. And a kid in that situation is likely to do, well, just about anything, because he's not a big thinker at this point in his cranial development. Also, he's Will, which (in my mind) means he's arrogant like his dad, and not exactly the smartest stick in the pile, and emotionally about ten years old. The problem is that he's got the resources to screw with his dad and the family, and they know it.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Gene Splicer PHD

[PrivateTim]

Now let's look at Will. Going back to Paris, he and his father are kidnapped. Will is raped. What does Brad do? Leave Will and return to home. Will got no or little help from Brad. The group goes to Rome and Will finds Roberto. Stef and JP believe that will help him forget and heal. Then Stef's big mistake letting Will go to the gay club. I blame that on Stef. After they go home, Jeanine seems like she could care less about Will. Even Brad and Robbie's reaction is odd. Don't you think that some of Will's behavior could be caused by the kidnapping and rape? What help does Will get? None that I can see. Going to the college party, could be wrong but it is nothing that any kid Will's age wouldn't had done. I am sure Brad would have done it without thinking. If we look, Brad was into a lot more in just a few years later. Now we come to the float trip. Will takes the blame for his friend, because he thinks his father will believe him. What is Brad's action to this. Hiring Martin. Then leaving the day after. Showing Will that Brad's birthday trip was more important than he was. In Will's mind, his father the person he loved the most in the world, didn't love him anymore. How would you feel? Alone! Alone with the likes of Martin, a sadist. You can disagree with Will's plan but it is masterful. If Martin would not have beaten Will, Brad and Robbie's cars and clothing would have not been harmed. Maybe just maybe if Brad would have cared more about his son and less about business and himself none of this would have happened. After Will returns Brad again, makes promises, which he again breaks. Then where is Norway. A mother who is totally wacked out, totally out of control. Brad again makes promises, some of the same promises he broke before and only a few days later breaks them again.

 

Last, Is Will smarter than Brad? Yes, because Will has learned from the past. He is controlling his temper, and learning not to trust his father's promises. He is planning his future since he can't trust his father. What has Brad learned? Nothing! He makes the same mistakes over and over again. Is he controlling his temper? His son. his beloved son, the person he would have died for just months ago, is now nothing but his foe in a battle of control. That Tim, that is the saddest of all! It is my hope that none of us never will be put it that position. Left alone rejected by the person we loved most in the world.

 

Actually Brad mentioned going home immediately twice and the first time Will said he wanted to stay for JP's lecture and the second time Will decided he was going to go to Rome and he was happy that Brad didn't force him to go back because he didn't really want to deal with John or Robbie then. So should Brad have forced Will to go home? Or would that have been another black mark against Brad for making decisions for Will?

 

The raft trip wasn't just about Will taking the rap for Ryan, it was about him smoking weed, drinking and screwing without a condom on a school trip to begin with. Those are three very bad ideas, especially when you are on a school sponsored trip as all three could get you expelled and the lack of condom..... well we will still see about that, this is after all, "Paternity".

 

Jeanine's attitude toward Will has heavily been influenced by Will's towards her and going around her to get what he wants from Brad. I will place part of the blame on Brad for letting Will do it, but I'll also blame Will for playing that game to begin with.

 

Brad did send Will to a therapist, but Will didn't like him. If I remember Will went through a couple of therapists, so it is not like they didn't do anything.

 

Hiring someone like Martin, who was supposed to give Will more structure and personal discipline rather than a Pat who was just serving as chauffeur/guard wasn't a bad idea, what Martin turned out to be was the problem, but that wasn't foreseeable, it is hindsight. Brad and Robbie were still working on rebuilding their life as partners, so a weekend away for Brad's birthday isn't tantamount to child abuse or abandonment.

 

Will was already out of control prior to his running away, the things he said to Brad and Robbie are not only things I never could have gotten away with saying to my parents, but I wouldn't have even thought to use that kind of language with them. Will was already plotting to drug Martin before he'd ever met him and planning on stealing the money from Brad and Robbie. Will never even considered talking to JP, Stef or Claire before he ran away. If Will was the smart, cool thinking customer everyone makes him out to be after Martin abused him Will should have made a bee-line for Escorial and told JP and Stef what happened. Then you could have argued that Will was smarter than Brad, that Will holds his temper better etc, but if you go back through the chapters leading up to his running away you see someone who was not controlling his temper at all. He was lashing out at Brad and Robbie in the nastiest way he could.

 

Lastly, Brad could not make any promises with respect to Jeanine and her parental rights. It isn't up to Brad to take them away, that would be a function of a court. Will can't demand that Brad do what Brad has no power to do.

[rjo]

Gene, I would agree with you, totally except for one thing. I believe Will has learned from the past months. I am not saying he is perfect or very thing he does is the best for him, but he is doing better. Edited August 27, 2012 by rjo

[PrivateTim]

What Mark has created here is a situation that I think is waaay polarized, more for dramatic effect and storytelling than anything else. Brad is not interested in compromise. He's not interested in anything Will has to say, and is now very much on the defensive. And he's reacting, rather than thinking about options. And Will, in that fuzzy emotional/logical/stressed and dunderheaded way that teenagers have, is doing exactly the same thing. He doesn't care why his dad's being a dick, he just knows his dad's being a dick because he "doesn't care". He's overreacting to his dad's stupid decisions. The problem is that he has the resources to really escalate the situation to a point that will have no good outcome for anyone.

 

Brad is a business leader, and understands a proportional response, and absolutely refuses to include Will in his thinking process. That's a mistake, a big one. It means Will is reacting to his own situation without consideration of his dad's situation, so Will is operating in a vacuum. And a kid in that situation is likely to do, well, just about anything, because he's not a big thinker at this point in his cranial development. Also, he's Will, which (in my mind) means he's arrogant like his dad, and not exactly the smartest stick in the pile, and emotionally about ten years old. The problem is that he's got the resources to screw with his dad and the family, and they know it.

 

So you know I think you are one of the more rational people on GA, both here and in the Soapbox.

 

I agree completely with these two paragraphs. My point all along has not been that Brad really deserves to be in the running for the Father of the Year, but rather that Will is not this amazing, wise, worldly 14 year old who is the smartest person in any room he is in, which is the impression I get from so many people who seem to act as if that is the case.

 

When I came home from my water polo banquet my freshman year, drunk as a skunk because we'd gone to beach and had a bonfire party after, my parents didn't say a word.

 

The next morning they sat down with me and told me they understood that kids drink and party and that they knew they couldn't stop me from drinking if it was what I really wanted to do, but they wanted me to think about the consequences that could happen. It could have gotten me kicked out of a very good high school, kicked off the sports teams I was on and loved, and if I got arrested it could affect what college I got into. They reminded me of the people I would be going to for references when I was ready for college and could I really ask them in good conscious to vouch for my character if I had something like that on my record. There was no shouting, no threats and not even a grounding, just a lot of things to think about.

 

I thought it was great parenting and I used a lot of their parenting skills with my own teen son, who was actually much better behaved than I ever hoped to be, but that is due to a lot of factors and few of which had to do with me.

[rjo]

As I said before Tim, nothing with change you mind about Will. You think he is a brat, and I do not. It is that simple. I am not going to agree with you. However, I am glad my parents were not like Brad has been to Will. I never gave them much trouble, and I can't ask them because they're died. I believe in a more loving caring method in raising children. Hopefully, we both agree with that.

Edited August 27, 2012 by rjo

[Mark Arbour]

Oh you don't have kids or spend much time with families with teenagers in crisis, do you ? There's a thing called choosing your battles with kids. You try to pick the battle that will have an effect, and you try to balance reaction to their actions, and vice versa. It's not as simple as calling the law or shipping them off to a school. It's a whole lot trickier than that, the risks are a lot higher.

 

I mean, if a baby is screaming and won't quiet down, do you yell back? That just makes it worse, and do you think this changes when they become teenagers? It doesn't! They just yell louder back at you or throw things and leave, or tell you to piss off and go do what they want anyway, or have big hissy fits.

 

What you are talking about here. Tim, is when it escalates and never gets better. My cousin's kid was 15 when they caught her with pot. My cousin asked my opinion (as the family druggie) what I would do in her situation. My answer was that she could go two ways.

 

She could lock the kid down, search her room and her person randomly, ban her from seeing her friends, take away her phone, take away her privileges, random drug tests, hair tests, the whole thing. Up to and including a short stay in a rehab if it came to that.

 

Or she could talk to the kid, find out what was up with the pot smoking, tell her in no uncertain terms that the pot had to go, come up with some ways to maybe push the kid to see some different friends, etc. - all of this with the never-voiced hope that the pot will be a temporary phase.

 

My cousin went the lock down route. For a year. When she got her freedom back, the kid stopped coming home, stopped calling to say where she was, basically she broke free. And hasn't, except for short visits home, been back since. She got her own phone from some friends, found some couches she could sleep on, got a small job to put money in her pocket. Emancipation, really, only without the law.

 

We all knew it would happen, we all saw the ugly, ugly looks the kid gave my cousin, the silence, all that anger. The whole experience so poisoned her about "home" that she didn't really think she had one anymore, so she bailed. And truthfully my cousin lost a whole lot more than a stupid battle about pot. She really lost the relationship. It's better but will never ever really be a good one again.

 

Legally, my cousin could have had the kid dragged home when she didn't come home, could have taken away the phone again, shipped her off to a school or camp, could have taken all kinds of legal measures to keep her minor child under control. And my cousin, knowing what would happen if she cracked down again, has backed off. Way off. She will lose her daughter, in one way or another, if she escalated it again, and so she has chosen (wisely, I think) to let the kid find her own way.

 

But there's no "winner" in this, Tim. You don't win when a kid sees no options and the parents can't see them either. The daughter didn't win, she had a harder adolescence because of her decisions and her mom's reactions. The mom (my cousin) didn't win, she basically lost all the trust her daughter had in her. Nowadays, my cousin sends a little money her way once in a while, keeps in regular touch, and hopes the girl doesn't end up on a stripper pole somewhere. Sometimes it's all that's left.

Sometimes, parents have to let the really independent ones go their way, and make their mistakes, and hope it all turns out okay in the end.

 

What Mark has created here is a situation that I think is waaay polarized, more for dramatic effect and storytelling than anything else. Brad is not interested in compromise. He's not interested in anything Will has to say, and is now very much on the defensive. And he's reacting, rather than thinking about options. And Will, in that fuzzy emotional/logical/stressed and dunderheaded way that teenagers have, is doing exactly the same thing. He doesn't care why his dad's being a dick, he just knows his dad's being a dick because he "doesn't care". He's overreacting to his dad's stupid decisions. The problem is that he has the resources to really escalate the situation to a point that will have no good outcome for anyone.

 

Mark has said that this "battle" between Brad and Will in some ways reflects his own relationship with his son, who (I think) is a little older than Will. And I think he's putting little pieces of the battles he's had with his son in the story, only highly dramatized.

What he's been really, really good at is overemphasizing that the kid's opinions matter- not because he's a special snowflake that has "needs" - but that you have to be nuanced in dealing with kids, because they will usually react, without any sense of balance, without thinking. If a parent just drops the hammer, the kid will hit you with it, really hard, because they have no sense of a proportional response. The baby yells, the parents yell back, the baby yells louder. It's a never ending cycle - so you learn to let the baby cry itself to sleep. You don't call the law on it.

 

Part of dealing with a kid is including them in the decisions that affect them, even if they don't have a choice in those decisions, because it lets the kid in on what you're thinking. And that can lead the child to a better response than you would get otherwise.

 

Brad is a business leader, and understands a proportional response, and absolutely refuses to include Will in his thinking process. That's a mistake, a big one. It means Will is reacting to his own situation without consideration of his dad's situation, so Will is operating in a vacuum. And a kid in that situation is likely to do, well, just about anything, because he's not a big thinker at this point in his cranial development. Also, he's Will, which (in my mind) means he's arrogant like his dad, and not exactly the smartest stick in the pile, and emotionally about ten years old. The problem is that he's got the resources to screw with his dad and the family, and they know it.

 

This was stunningly insightful. Wow.

[GLH]

At the risk of appearing repetitious:

Yes, our children are supposed to be the jack-booted little minions we insist on them being, carrying out our every edict with goose-stepped precision. Unfortunately "Kids do/say the damnedest things", and that old saying didn't just fall out of some random parent's ass one day for shits and giggles.

 

Edited August 27, 2012 by GLH

[Gene Splicer PHD]

So you know I think you are one of the more rational people on GA, both here and in the Soapbox.

 

I agree completely with these two paragraphs. My point all along has not been that Brad really deserves to be in the running for the Father of the Year, but rather that Will is not this amazing, wise, worldly 14 year old who is the smartest person in any room he is in, which is the impression I get from so many people who seem to act as if that is the case.

 

When I came home from my water polo banquet my freshman year, drunk as a skunk because we'd gone to beach and had a bonfire party after, my parents didn't say a word.

 

The next morning they sat down with me and told me they understood that kids drink and party and that they knew they couldn't stop me from drinking if it was what I really wanted to do, but they wanted me to think about the consequences that could happen. It could have gotten me kicked out of a very good high school, kicked off the sports teams I was on and loved, and if I got arrested it could affect what college I got into. They reminded me of the people I would be going to for references when I was ready for college and could I really ask them in good conscious to vouch for my character if I had something like that on my record. There was no shouting, no threats and not even a grounding, just a lot of things to think about.

 

I thought it was great parenting and I used a lot of their parenting skills with my own teen son, who was actually much better behaved than I ever hoped to be, but that is due to a lot of factors and few of which had to do with me.

 

Well, just so you know I singled you out only because you made some fairly "black and white" statements about how the law can be used to assist with parental authority - while I agree that that's one way to handle it, it almost never turns out to be a course of action that anyone should take without knowing the consequences and almost always ends up with a totally destroyed relationship between the parents and the kid.

 

I'm glad your parents took the tack they did with you and that it's worked out well in your family and with your son. There are an awful lot of families, though, where this wouldn't work, mostly due to social factors that I won't rant about

 

Parenting is hard. So is being a teenager.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Gene Splicer PHD

[Gene Splicer PHD]

Gene, I would agree with you, totally except for one thing. I believe Will has learned from the past months. I am not saying he is perfect or very thing he does is the best for him, but he is doing better.

 

He's learning how to strategize, to get his way. He's learning how to play the game. He's not learning how to fix things, though. When he's thoughtful, he seems to sort of "get it" but the minute his dad or Robbie or his mom jump in the frame, he's back to reacting again. Just like a teenager, his emotional defense pops up and the rational thinking goes right out the window. So yeah, he's learning, but he's not doing anything with what he's learning other than getting people to see his way.

 

Brad hasnt had his "come to jesus" moment with Will yet, I don't think. He doesn't realize yet what's at stake. He's just like Will - anytime Will comes into the picture, there Brad goes, off the handle or skidding sideways again.

[rjo]

I would like you to know, Gene. You are the first thing. Tim and I have ever agreed on.

[BeysJoshersLepton V2]

Just out of interest how long has it been since Will slept with Raine? Would be interesting to see if pregnant, how the court would look at a request for emancipation should it come to light.

[PrivateTim]

Just out of interest how long has it been since Will slept with Raine? Would be interesting to see if pregnant, how the court would look at a request for emancipation should it come to light.

 

Almost four weeks..... it would be a hot court room moment. Raine burst's in the court and declares in a Scarlet O'Hara voice, "I'm having your baby Will!" And then faints of course.....

[Mark Arbour]

Almost four weeks..... it would be a hot court room moment. Raine burst's in the court and declares in a Scarlet O'Hara voice, "I'm having your baby Will!" And then faints of course.....

 

God that's funny. It's too cheesy, even for me.

[GLH]

Darn it! Now I have to take time out of my car shopping to read the new chapter... Oh, the drudgery!

[methodwriter85]

God that's funny. It's too cheesy, even for me.

 

Also, it doesn't really fit what Raine's like. She's like that cool, low-key girl you knew in high school who just walked through life with a fluid grace, unfazed by anything.

Edited August 30, 2012 by methodwriter85

[rjo]

No 14yo is ready for parenthood. If we look at Wade who is 20 and then Matt we can see it's even hard for someone that age. Will's got to much going on for that to happen. I hope what will happen is a plan that will lower passions, and give Will some but not total freedom. I think Will's lawyer pushed him into this.He wanted freedom from his mother not his father at first. Maybe reason can triumph. But then this is the CAP saga.

Edited August 30, 2012 by rjo

[mmike1969]

God that's funny. It's too cheesy, even for me.

 

You may be right. Have Stef faint.

[Canuk]

I think I have finally understood why this entire episode has had me just not quite feeling right: I cannot imagine a parent not moving heaven and earth until the person that took photos of their children was beaten to a pulp.

 

All Wills drama is simply that of a 14 year old - with the significant layer on top of a parent/s just failing to do the one thing parents are supposed to do.

 

great writing.....

[Daddydavek]

I'm still hoping that reason finally prevails.

 

I'd really like for Brad to have a real discussion with someone (overheard by Wade so we can be in on it) discussing calmly and rationally some real alternatives to take to Will and discuss before they ever got to the hearing. Jeanine's rights will be terminated. Temporary guardianship could be handed over to JP until Brad and Will can rebuild their trust issues. Will would have to cede a lot of his "all or nothing" attitude and Brad will have to cede his control. After some suitable interval, Michael would accidently meet his demise. Of course, as that is what I would expect to happen in a so-called "normal" soap opera type story, Mark probably has something entirely different planned....

[PrivateTim]

I found this line interesting, “No, I’m responsible to myself. I have to make decisions and suffer the consequences. What I’m saying is that I think I can do that better than you.”

 

When has Will ever suffered the consequences of his actions? For all the crap he has pulled, the way he speaks to his parents at 14, the destruction of property, theft, buying illegal drugs and fake id's, underage drinking, drug use, and rampant sex. Where have there ever been the consequences that people normally suffer?

 

He continues to be an absolute bitch to a lot of those aound him. I just don't see someone ready to handle their own affairs.

 

PS "and no 14 yo is ready for parenthood", but they are ready for everything else about being an adult? I've never met a 14 year old ready to make sound judgments for their lives.

Edited August 30, 2012 by PrivateTim

[sat8997]

You know, I've been trying to be good, really I have. Keeping it classy. But sometimes it's like listening to the adults in the Charlie Brown comics.

 

"Wah wah, wah wah...wah wah. Wah wah wah."

 

Just as a small side note: I have met a 14 year old ready to make sound judgements for their lives. Actually, two. Specifically, because I raised them that way. To start thinking for, and deciding for, themselves. It's what made them the wonderful young adults they are today.

[B1ue]

When has Will ever suffered the consequences of his actions? For all the crap he has pulled, the way he speaks to his parents at 14, the destruction of property, theft, buying illegal drugs and fake id's, underage drinking, drug use, and rampant sex. Where have there ever been the consequences that people normally suffer?

 

He continues to be an absolute bitch to a lot of those aound him.

In reverse order, he's not actually a bitch to everyone around him. His immediate family, yes, and Michael, but to everyone else he's still charming and sanguine. And because he isn't willing to cut the members of his family any slack, they are treating him exactly as he's treating them. So, I'd say he is in fact suffering consequences. Brad used to be his best friend, Darius his role model, Robbie and JJ his buds. None now would spit on him if he was on fire. Edit: Matt he never really had a warm relationship, so there's no big loss there, but it does cut down on his potential allies.

 

The drugs, sex, alcohol, and even the fake ID, of course he does not suffer consequences for partaking in these things. According to the morality he has grown up with, none of these things are big deals. Or any kind of deal whatsoever. In particular the sex, Will grew up with Stef and Cody in his life. Of course he doesn't care about being promiscuous, and nor does anyone else, except JJ.

 

He was grounded for the destruction of property, and drugging Robbie, wasn't he? That's a mild punishment by anyone's standards, but it's the one his parents decided on, so, meh.

 

He talks to his parents like he doesn't trust them and thinks they are actively trying to hurt him (emotionally at the very least), but he isn't afraid to be honest with them. It's odd, yes, but I've met people that shared a similar dichotomy. It's one way that he is acting like a typical 14 year old, really.

 

No 14yo is ready for parenthood..

 

Not that I'd recommend it as a course of action, but I've met fourteen-year-olds that raised kids. My maternal grandmother, and several of my great-aunts, in fact. It wasn't common even then, but not exactly unheard of for the time. The concept of teenage years was not as widespread as it is now, before the first half of the twentieth century. My parent's generation doesn't have parents quite that young, but a couple of my aunts had kids, and marriages, at 16. As do a couple of my cousins, but naturally the circumstances were quite different, and there were no resultant marriages.

 

Heck, my grandfather was in the Navy during World War 2. He was 15 in 1942, the year he enlisted.

Edited August 31, 2012 by B1ue

[B1ue]

He's learning how to strategize, to get his way. He's learning how to play the game. He's not learning how to fix things, though. When he's thoughtful, he seems to sort of "get it" but the minute his dad or Robbie or his mom jump in the frame, he's back to reacting again. Just like a teenager, his emotional defense pops up and the rational thinking goes right out the window. So yeah, he's learning, but he's not doing anything with what he's learning other than getting people to see his way.

 

Brad hasnt had his "come to jesus" moment with Will yet, I don't think. He doesn't realize yet what's at stake. He's just like Will - anytime Will comes into the picture, there Brad goes, off the handle or skidding sideways again.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely, because that is pretty typical teenage behavoir, but how much of it is because he's a teenager, and how much of it is because he's him? Or to put another way, is it expected that he will grow out of it, or into it, if this is still an aspect of the person he has most strongly modeled himself on?

[MJ85]

I'm just thinking that those wishing and hoping for an epiphany should keep on dreaming. But that's just me.

[methodwriter85]

The concept of teenage years was not as widespread as it is now, before the first half of the twentieth century.

 

You're right about that. When I was about 17, I read this interesting book called

by Thomas Hine. The book chronicles the invention of the teenaged years by American society, which was necessitated by the Great Depression. Before that, mature teenagers that could work were essentially treated like adults- it would have been normal for a 14-year old to have a full-time job instead of going to school. When the Great Depression hit, more states made high school mandatory, which had the net result of trying to lower down the labor pool. The term "teenager" was invented around the 1930's/1940's, and the concept came into full bloom in the 1950's with the ascent of the SIlent Generation as teenaged bobbysoxers living in comfortable suburban households.